Could Delilah be IEE?

[Guillaine]

Hi Delilah, it seems you have found what you think is right for you and I'm glad. I don't want to confuse you at all so please ignore what I say if this is not helpful. I feel like I can describe this type very well as I have been best freinds with many over the years, so I'll just offer that in case it helps.
When I think of EII-Ne I think of Dostoyevsky and Kafka and MIa Wasikowska kind of people who are very gentle, sensitive, have richly emotional and imaginative inner lives, and though fragile have an inner determination and compass that [perhaps surpasses all other types. They accept people as they are and accept the contradictions life presents them. They seek firm practical support. They do not necessarily smile a lot, though they are kind, they are concerned with being good people and are there own worst critics. THey are happy to live off to one side of the mainstream, like on the edge of the spectrum, they are happy to not fit convention or social norms and often have unconventional lives, where others might be very uncomfortable in that position. They will go to great lengths to do what they believe is right even if it is not the popular opinion.
These are just some observations from real life I've made.
oh yes, and they are great listeners!
AAh! I keep adding to this. Something else I've noticed about them, which I love and wish I had it, and which I think is what makes this type so funny, is the ability to quickly in their mind jump to the most extreme idea of a thing, I think it has to do with creative Ne. LIke if they sensed they were about to trip over their mind would immediately imagine the greatest possible fall with all the silliness of that, even though they never actually fell at all. It makes them good at comedy. Actually I cans ee this same thing in Eii-FIs too like Gwyneth Paltrow doing it when playing Emma, going to extremes in their mind in a flash, whereas others are slower to process such consequences.
Actually come to think of it both Gwyneth Paltrow and Toni Collette are EII's in that movie.

[bloodmoon]

Hi Lluna, so there are three types on the table, with EII-Ne a bit less remote (mostly because i don't consider myself as angelic as EII comes across in various descriptions, but maybe i'm too influenced by the bias in these descriptions which doesn't allow me to consider the type a bit more coldly and rationally? )

I think what it is i really identify very strongly with FI and think have a real lock on it, like i really understand how it works and have reflected on my behaviour and attitudes, with Fi really being a driving force there.

That's exactly what I suggested you should get rid of
I'm glad you found your type. @Guillaine's description is quite good.

[Chthonic Daydream]

We need more of @Guillaine's descriptions! They should start threads for other types too, that one was really good.

Glad you found your type, Delilah. May it serve you well in a frustration-free life.

[Bertrand]

I'd be willing to bet guillaine has never even read a work by Dostoevsky (and probably not kafka either, although that's easy enough to fake I'm not going to bother arguing it) in full, so those "descriptions" are superficial to an insane degree. I can see how they'd appeal to posters with a similar outlook on "personality" which is something more like a classification system of "reputation" mixed with "physical appearance"--personality never really comes into it, except with this as its definition, which is only a commentary on how a large swath of people view personality itself

[falsehope]

I think it would be best for Delliah to post questionnaire and also describe relationships with other types. So it was not long ago when Delliah was telling that there are multiple dichotomies she thinks are hers so she is either ESI or IEE now she says she's EII based on very generalised description which doesnt fit my EII-Ne wife at all.
I think photo would clarify a lot. Maybe just shot of the eyes.
Also my EII-Ne wife is not really concerned with things like Delliah described in her previous posts. My wife doesnt care what others say or behave, she just DGAF. I think it's different kind of Fi than ESI has.

[Guillaine]

I am happy to list the works of both authors I have read in full. THe house of the Dead and notes from the Underground, half of Karamazov, in full the trial, kafka's diaries, conversations with kafka, two books of his short fiction, most of the castle, maybe others I can't remember. In any case, this is not the point as my observations were not mostly based on that reading at all, after all they are both 4w5 and particular people, but on my intimate friendships with people of that type, for which I have a lot of admiration and my sister is one. Just because I wasn't using theoretical language doesn't mean things from real life aren't valid. There is no need to be like that. If they are useless to Delilah then she can by all means ignore them.

[Bertrand]

the point is people need to be warned against charlatans, and if no one does so nice people tend to assume a thing is valid unless contradicted, thus you could mislead deliliah and she wouldn't even know to ignore you, especially if no one ever said anything and all we had was a circlejerk between you and people like feathers. that is how the entire thing is reduced to an absurd bunch of stereotypes perpetuated by local social mavens. enneagram---> that way

[Guillaine]

No, the point is what you said was rude and disrespectful, unnecessarily so, which detracts from any information you bring that might be valid. I frankly don't want to discuss socionics with you any more.

[Bertrand]

maybe for you, but the willingness to go into the negative is actually a form of wholeness that people who cut it out in the name of mindless positivity lose all perspective on. imagine if there was an "upvote only" system of comparison of ideas, it would essentially devolve into a popularity contest with no real basis beyond being understandable and likeable at the lowest common denominator. the idea that any intellectual idea could be founded on such a thing goes to show there is no intellectual basis for anything you say. the question then becomes if socionics is about more than simply rationalizing the positive tones to one's pre existing worldview: i.e.: to learn something aside from what one already knows, what good is your approach? all it does is pander to likeminds and is inherently incapable of offering any new information because its nothing but a bundle of assumptions one can either adopt or refuse but provides no reason to do so other than it being comfortable or not to do so (adam strange likewise peddles his anecdotes in this fashion). its like, this is how people believe all sorts of nonsense and how all forms of pseudo science and scams are devised. socionics may seem like fertile ground to ply your trade in that respect, but to expect no resistance is to have miscalculated. socionics is misused inasmuch as it is merely a systemic description of one's own prejudices. to expect such a process to be polite simply removes the spirit of the project in the name of an empty slogan. it essentially sucks the life out of the thing, since if nothing else, what is considered impolite is ultimately nothing but a consequence of our own assumptions, which is precisely the thing socionics is about unwinding, or should unwind if you understand it properly. if you negate the possibility of that aim (to overcome one's own weaponized sense of being offended, to put down the club and actually learn something for once) then you destroy the system from the outside in by strangling it in the crib with a impassible wall of superficiality. so the question becomes why even be here if that's your goal, like I said there's all sorts of other quackery you can involve yourself in, where people would love to hear it. it does not shock me that you already think you know everything there is to know sufficient to pass judgement on the learning process itself as either proper or improper so early on, but once again that is nothing but a symptom of rank superficiality top to bottom. its precisely the sort of requirement that makes it so things stay sufficiently superficial such that one has mastered the material simply by precluding the possibility of anyone ever going deeper

the infantile version of socionics is MBTI

[Delilah]

I think it would be best for Delliah to post questionnaire and also describe relationships with other types. So it was not long ago when Delliah was telling that there are multiple dichotomies she thinks are hers so she is either ESI or IEE now she says she's EII based on very generalised description which doesnt fit my EII-Ne wife at all.
I think photo would clarify a lot. Maybe just shot of the eyes.
Also my EII-Ne wife is not really concerned with things like Delliah described in her previous posts. My wife doesnt care what others say or behave, she just DGAF. I think it's different kind of Fi than ESI has.

Yeah, i can't completely rule IEE out, but took a decision. I tried to explain that somewhat in one of my posts above, but when i have a chance i might post a more detailed elaboration on my reasons. I feel i don't resonate with IEEs on here at all - in the past (when i used to post as He Died with a Felafel) and in the present.

By the way, didn't you suggest to simplify the process by focusing solely on N vs. S and leave out the dichotomies? I'm pretty sure you did in a previous post. I ended up taking that advise - or did you not mean it??

Will elaborate more later.

[Delilah]

That's exactly what I suggested you should get rid of
I'm glad you found your type. @Guillaine's description is quite good.

I had been overthinking it, but it's settled on EII-NE now. Thanks for your input.

[Sol]

EII in your profile now mb motivated by your emotions of the redundant negativism to my opinion about your type, about your morally weird personality and the deficite of objective reason. And also it's allowed by your strong inabbility to understand the basic types theory due to your most possible S-F (SEI) type as having the worst abbilities for it.
As the alternative - your type is EIE, what is my second guess, what you are getting step by step.

The main your problem of self-understanding is the same still - the baseless assigning to yourself Fi type what is lol, taking into account your inadequate moral behavior and the funny aversion to Te.
After you'll get your Fe type by IR, the other will go easier for you with the acceptance of your correct type.

Take into account, if you'll get close relations with LSEs based on your delusion about EII as your type, - you'll get the similar aversion to you like from me.

[Exodus]

I think that you are right in the analysis, but wrong in the conclusion as i still think I am a Fi -ego type, of which SEE is completely out of the question. I consider IEE yet much that is said about its temperament seems very strange to me. On the other hand EII seem too angelic if we go by your typical description and i can't help feeling like a hypocrite if i were to select that as my type but maybe there is depth i'm missing out (or Ti i'm not getting) and hence EII-Ne is on the table.

The reason i had settled on ESI was because it was sort of a compromise between the options above. I don't identify with Ni-ego or any dynamic type. However, i might have relatively strong Ni (if I were a delta NF that would be possible).

I think that i might be overthinking it and that's why i wanted outside input. I understand of course that communicating on this forum that can be limited, but still, it would be something.

I think i don't have a very good idea of how i come across to others, which could be a sign of weaker Se than i thought (and unvalued Fe since i don't manipulate my image towards others in the way Fe types do).

Maybe there is merit to doing a questionnaire ? What do you think? Thanks.

A questionnaire would certainly be preferable.

Why are you so sure that you are Fi ego and not Ni ego? It seems even more unlikely that you are Se ego. ILI with Fi mobilizing would make more sense IMO.

[Exodus]

EIIs will resemble ESIs, LIIs, other NFs and maybe even LSIs since we share temperament (I've seen a self-typed EII being told he was LSI online, and I can understand why, even if this is probably unpopular opinion), but a SEI resemblance will be rare. We have nothing in common except 4D Fi and 3D Fe.

And Ne values, and Si values, and introversion.

Mistaking a type for its beneficiary or benefactor is not at all unreasonable.

[Sol]

Mistaking a type for its beneficiary or benefactor is not at all unreasonable.

only in case of the usage of bad typing skills is the trait of being reasonable
to close types I'd relate only the differing on a single dichotomy + mirror. it's the most common my doubts in typing. to strongly doubt between SEI and EII would be lol. except when heretic theories are used - then can be anything

[Mila]

A questionnaire would certainly be preferable.

Why are you so sure that you are Fi ego and not Ni ego? It seems even more unlikely that you are Se ego. ILI with Fi mobilizing would make more sense IMO.

Thats a very funny suggestion. I think she has demonstrated to be an ethical type all this time. Wonder where do you see Ni Te and Fe PoLR. Or why exactly do you think shes your quasi.

[bloodmoon]

And Ne values, and Si values, and introversion.

Mistaking a type for its beneficiary or benefactor is not at all unreasonable.

I am of the (unpopular?) opinion that quadra values are way less noticeable in an individual (especially if undualised and not close to you -the typist- personally) than her/his temperament. So as I said, mistaking:

LIIs with IEIs or SLIs
ILEs with LSEs or EIEs
SEIs with EIIs or LSIs

Etc., is quite improbable.

Even the introversion is completely different. Dynamic & irrational introversion vs. static & rational introversion. An introvert has more in common with extroverts -in the sense that they will share staticity/dynamism with one kind of extrovert and rationality/irrationality with the other kind of extrovert- than with their fellow introtims with different temperaments, with whom they don't share any of the two dichotomy traits.

[Guillaine]

Something you (delilah) wrote recently gave me one of my Aha! moments and I heard the voice of a friend of mine, she's ESE 3w4 (maybe 3w2) Sx/so. Make of it what you will.

[Delilah]

Something you (delilah) wrote recently gave me one of my Aha! moments and I heard the voice of a friend of mine, she's ESE 3w4 (maybe 3w2) Sx/so. Make of it what you will.

hotelambush types me ILI, could luck reconciling that with ESE and, also, make of that what you will ha.

I feel like one of those celebrities that are typed every type under the sun.

On a more serious note, i am not a dynamic type, i don't identify with the fluffy atmosphere of alpha quadra, don't have alpha quadra values, and hidden agenda to be perfect does not speak to me. But even less does Fe speak to me, where i don't ever aim to change another's emotional dynamics and have no talent with groups much as i might have some charisma. I am far from a Si type: have no particular skills, am not into crafts or creating/fixing things using my own hands, and am not a bonvivant much as i might be an optimistic person.

There is more I could write but i feel people on here seem to have such a warped idea of who i am or how i live my life that i see no way of fixing that, seems beyond fixable. I'll stick with EII-Ne

[Guillaine]

hotelambush types me ILI, could luck reconciling that with ESE and, also, make of that what you will ha.

I feel like one of those celebrities that are typed every type under the sun.

On a more serious note, i am not a dynamic type, i don't identify with the fluffy atmosphere of alpha quadra, don't have alpha quadra values, and hidden agenda to be perfect does not speak to me. But even less does Fe speak to me, where i don't ever aim to change another's emotional dynamics and have no talent with groups much as i might have some charisma. I am far from a Si type: have no particular skills, am not into crafts or creating/fixing things using my own hands, and am not a bonvivant much as i might be an optimistic person.

There is more I could write but i feel people on here seem to have such a warped idea of who i am or how i live my life that i see no way of fixing that, seems beyond fixable. I'll stick with EII-Ne

Sorry if I made you feel uncomfortable.

[Delilah]

Sorry if I made you feel uncomfortable.

Eh, it's more that i have no idea where people are seeing the Si. I'd actually be curious if you'd like to share where you notice Si in me? and, yes, i'd take that to be your impression only so i'd have no hard feelings.

I mean, it's likely on written format i might come across as Si-ish, well i'm Si valuing anyway.

[Guillaine]

Eh, it's more that i have no idea where people are seeing the Si. I'd actually be curious if you'd like to share where you notice Si in me? and, yes, i'd take that to be your impression only so i'd have no hard feelings.

I mean, it's likely on written format i might come across as Si-ish, well i'm Si valuing anyway.

I haven't really analysed you in that way, I don't feel I know you well enough to say what type you are. I can probably hear Fe if I'm honest, just in written form like 'sigh' and stuff and in very limited interaction I've had with you. But I wasn't really that it was I just noted that your written voice sounded like a friend of mine, I could hear her talk while reading you, who I have typed ESE, I could have mistaken her type, though I'm pretty sure. She is a colleague/ language teacher. I am analyzing it from a language perspective, phrases that she uses and just my intuitive impression of the language. I thought it might be useful to share, even if it's enneagram or instincts that match up.

Just about my friend where I see Si is probably that she likes to cook good food for her family, likes to take care of herself well physically and does this quite well. She pays quite a bit of attention to her physical appearance. She has some issues with her body type, but that's related to her upbringing. She loves and verbally appreciates food. But she also loves literature, and most of all her family and travel. She is Fe subtype I believe. She loves to discuss ideas and can be very passionate about certain things, but also can listen well, and has a private side (fi perhaps).

[Delilah]

I haven't really analysed you in that way, I don't feel I know you well enough to say what type you are. I can probably hear Fe if I'm honest, just in written form like 'sigh' and stuff and in very limited interaction I've had with you. But I wasn't really that it was I just noted that your written voice sounded like a friend of mine, I could hear her talk while reading you, who I have typed ESE, I could have mistaken her type, though I'm pretty sure. She is a colleague/ language teacher. I am analyzing it from a language perspective, phrases that she uses and just my intuitive impression of the language. I thought it might be useful to share, even if it's enneagram or instincts that match up.

Just about my friend where I see Si is probably that she likes to cook good food for her family, likes to take care of herself well physically and does this quite well. She pays quite a bit of attention to her physical appearance. She has some issues with her body type, but that's related to her upbringing. She loves and verbally appreciates food. But she also loves literature, and most of all her family and travel. She is Fe subtype I believe. She loves to discuss ideas and can be very passionate about certain things, but also can listen well, and has a private side (fi perhaps).

Thanks for sharing your impressions.

It is telling to me that Hotelambush, who is LII, doesn't see any degree of Fe in me, so much so that he types me ILI.

[Exodus]

hotelambush types me ILI, could luck reconciling that with ESE and, also, make of that what you will ha.

Thanks for sharing your impressions.

It is telling to me that Hotelambush, who is LII, doesn't see any degree of Fe in me, so much so that he types me ILI.

I do not, and have never, typed you as ILI. I said you *might* be ILI, insofar as it would be consistent with the Ni weirdness and your somewhat visible emphasis on Fi.

Now I think it is more likely that you identify with being Fi leading and therefore are trying to act the part. You have said yourself that you pay attention to your self-presentation, which is one manifestation of Fe. In any case, I don't really care enough to make a definitive typing other than to mention that most of the types you have considered are ridiculous.

[Sol]

Now I think it is more likely that you identify with being Fi leading and therefore are trying to act the part.

I congratulate you with noticing of falsification factor. The interpretation of words in questionnaires and interview on typology forums is vulnerable to this. The reason why video (photos also may help) is obligate - it allows to notice such contradictions, not only good to have as an additional info. People on forums are not random ones from a street.

She tries to act like Fi leading types about which she read in books, but is not consistent in it. Sometimes she acts naturally being Fe, as books does not describe nuances, or she misses them or looses the patience making rough mistakes. It's clear in case you talked with real base Fi types on forums, - they have other style; this needs typing experience and watching of people with real types.

> You have said yourself that you pay attention to your self-presentation, which is one manifestation of Fe.

"self-presentation" may relate to Fi region too. it's taking into account how other people see you. Fi types prefer to be pleasant for others, for example

[Bertrand]

I think its weird Sol and Delilah don't get along, they both seem thoroughly likeable. They both have a refreshingly straightforward way of communicating that I really appreciate. I know its just an illusion but some people seem to communicate as if through a veil, I know people are not intentionally being fake, but both Sol and Delilah seem like they are "real" in a way I find rare. It is odd to me, then, that they have the opposite of rapport it seems.. I like you both, I guess I don't understand any bad blood. Sol is always pushing his hyper rationalism, but why not? there are insights there, and no one is forced to accept every word. Delilah can defend herself which is often funny to watch from the side, because I don't think people see it coming. All in all I think there's a lot of potential here to work things out still. I don't want to minimize any genuine contempt one may have for the other, but I actually think this may be one of those ways of relating that is normal, and needs to unfold in such a way for Sol to "get the message" and vice versa. So in the end its not that weird that they don't get along, because this is how we hash it out

[Exodus]

I congratulate you with noticing of falsification factor. The interpretation of words in questionnaires and interview on typology forums is vulnerable to this. The reason why video (photos also may help) is obligate - it allows to notice such contradictions, not only good to have as an additional info. People on forums are not random ones from a street.

Sure. I've always said video is more spontaneous. It doesn't give you time to consciously choose what to say or talk about, so it makes your mental focus more apparent than posts.

[Delilah]

I do not, and have never, typed you as ILI. I said you *might* be ILI, insofar as it would be consistent with the Ni weirdness and your somewhat visible emphasis on Fi.

Now I think it is more likely that you identify with being Fi leading and therefore are trying to act the part. You have said yourself that you pay attention to your self-presentation, which is one manifestation of Fe. In any case, I don't really care enough to make a definitive typing other than to mention that most of the types you have considered are ridiculous.

In that thread I'm talking about things like not name dropping one's accomplishments and the like. I don't see how it comes across as preoccupation with self-presentation? As to the rest, fine.

ETA: what do you suppose I could gain by purposefully, as you put it, trying to play the part of Fi lead? On an anonymous internet forum? I don't see any gain in that and therefore i don't do it.

[Delilah]

SEE or IEE

SEE > IEE

Thanks for input, while SEE might be a bit of a stretch you are certainly right on the Fi-ego part. I have studied socionics for long enough and at significant enough depth to be very certain of my rational function. Whether it was a strong creative function or lead was the question. Thanks to everyone who addressed this.

[Delilah]

@Sol: please keep your opinions about my type contained within this thread, or other typing threads about me (or the one about the forum members' typings). Thanks.

[Sol]

only Fe "could"
what to understand "could" by IR test
besides basic theory

[para]

Do you have a video? From intelligible verbal language on here i have trouble seeing SEI.

[Number 9 large]

ETA: what do you suppose I could gain by purposefully, as you put it, trying to play the part of Fi lead? On an anonymous internet forum? I don't see any gain in that and therefore i don't do it.

Cuz u have a crush on Adam Strange

[para]

Cuz u have a crush on Adam Strange

Who doesn't?

[ooo]

makes sense

[Adam Strange]

Who doesn't?

What? That's like, impossible. I'm old and losing my hair. In real life, you wouldn't give me a second glance. I know this because 99.44% of women ignore me.

I guess it really proves this meme to be true: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the...ternet_dog.jpg

[para]

What? That's like, impossible. I'm old and losing my hair. In real life, you wouldn't give me a second glance. I know this because 99.44% of women ignore me.

I guess it really proves this meme to be true: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the...ternet_dog.jpg

Let's hope those .56% REALLY have a thing for dogs.

[Marep]

gulenko says its standard for people to shift toward their semi dual as they mature, so that could explain a lot. not saying you're base SEI, but that sol's SEI typing and your confusion (with ESI) might be a result of base IEE moving in that direction but not knowing entirely what to make of it. since learning to use more sensing and nevertheless being Fi and having holographic cognition might all seem like ESI traits etc

So, that means an EII is going to look more and more like a LIE?

But in what ways does this affect duality then?

Also, what about mirrors? Do they end up becoming more and more like conflictors to each other?

[Sol]

So, that means an EII is going to look more and more like a LIE?

people are more "mature" when weak functions develop. EII should remind more LSE. and other types in general, as types traits become more muddy, behavior more variative. but this should happen rarely. mostly people develop some skills, but not functions

If you'll study F type to calculate - he'll do this ok, but will stay similarly logically inferior in other logical regions. He'll develop a little T region with T activity, but from point of the whole type should change a little.

What was supposed mb called a dualization. It has 2 meanings: 1) when people are in close friendship relations with a dual (or mb other complementing types), 2) developing of own weak regions. When you have "1" this helps to get the "2", so the mix of the senses has a sense.

> But in what ways does this affect duality then?

developing of weak functions reduces the type and hence reduces IR effects you have with other people. this influences on all kinds of IR, not only the duality. you feel lesser of dependency from duals (you still may love them as friends, you just have lesser sorrow without them near) and lesser negative from bad IR

[youfloweryourfeast]

i think the reason its rare n to find them in real life is because fi ethics can be a really shy/reserved/quiet/hidden thing. specifically in ExIs, it can manifest differently in xEEs though . "R function (ethics of relationships) is shy, withdrawn, avoids too much attention, unlike its opposite, E - ethics of emotions, which wants to be noticed. All. The. Time."
Personally, I would be afraid to post a thread asking a lot of people what my type is. maybe if I really thought it through. I also hate spotlight and being known by a lot of people id rather hide in the corner.