Out of place and poetical : what's my type?

[Vespertine]

Ye so, hello,
I really don't trust myself with typing, I merely feel clueless about it, even though I have read about Jung based stuff for over a year now.
(Maybe I have read too much and got too many contradictory informations/stereotypes, hah)
With MBTI tests, I had every intuitive types and ISTJ once.
On socionics', I get ILI. (I ish shpeciul lol)

Member Questionnaire

What is beauty? What is love?
Beauty is when a subject experience life and sees, hears, feels beauty.
Love has many weird definitions that can almost all be replaced by "prefering life with X", no matter how toxic X might be. (Included codependency and abusive relationships as I have heard people call them love?)

What are your most important values?
Petting cats! *^*
Seriously, I'm not sure what values even are anymore... I'm not kind nor generous... perhaps I have none.

Do you have any sort of spiritual/religious beliefs, and why do you hold (or don't) those beliefs in the first place?
I hope there is something after death, but meh.
Suicide is a bad option because of those supposed afterlifes, or lack thereof, as abandoning your problems would give you a worst next life, a ticket to hell, or nothing at all if life is all we have.

Opinion on war and militaries? What is power to you?
Wars have been a thing for as long as history goes, there is no getting rid of that.
A power source is what my phone needs right now... ha.
There is innate power (strenght, talents...) and given power, when people give power over their life for some reason.
Some people who are used to be given power sometimes try to take power from others by force which can lead to a war when said person is in a powerful enough position.
Though giving power to someone you believe can heal you and it actually works is a crazy thing.

What have you had long conversations about? What are your interests? Why?
Usually people tell me at lenght about what they like. I don't really know if I have interests, what does that word even mean?
All those subjective concept don't make sense anymore. @-@

Interested in health/medicine as a conversation topic? Are you focused on your body?
No choice, people keep telling me all about their meds.
I hurt my back by thinking in odd positions, can barely remember to ear sometimes.

What do you think of daily chores?
I wish I had space to properly clean up my piles...

Books or films you liked? Recently read/watched or otherwise. Examples welcome.
I like animation movies.
I read about anything, from pholosophy to fantasy and even caution notice, labels, instructions on food, aything I lay eyes on.

What has made you cry? What has made you smile? Why?
Stress, tiredness make me cry.
I don't like smiling. It's uncomfortable and ugly.

Where do you feel: at one with the environment/a sense of belonging?
Where I am alone.

What have people seen as your weaknesses? What do you dislike about yourself?
Weird, tactless, WEIRD.
Nobody has ever called me fake, but playing a role is the only way I can socialise.
Social interactions are exhausting and too big a part of my life currently.

What have people seen as your strengths? What do you like about yourself?
People have rarely called me anything else than beautiful... sometimes it's like all I am to others and I find this sickening.
I was told I write in a "poetic" way but I don't see it.
If you are curious > http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...y-to-go-places

In what areas of your life would you like help?
What is my type? ; D

Ever feel stuck in a rut? If yes, describe the causes and your reaction to it.
Yes, usualy happens from too much social interactions, ending up stuck in a "role" and hating myself.

What qualities do you most like and dislike in other people? What types do you get along with?
I need comprehensive, supportive people as I am quite odd and need lots of time alone.
I cannot stand loud, highly social people who wants me to participate to the party.
I don't want to be around sugar coaters, touchy-feely people but I can deal with them.
Manipulative, sadistic people are out of question.

How do you feel about romance/sex? What qualities do you want in a partner?
Romance is weird, sex seems boring, this almost sounds like the begining of a sh*tty poem...
I want someone with whom to have interesting conversations, who is comprehensive and supportive... and not too sticky.

If you were to raise a child, what would be your main concerns, what measures would you take, and why?
Getting rid of it. Children are terrifying.

A friend makes a claim that clashes with your current beliefs. What is your inward and outward reaction?
Depends, if hateful I reconsider seeing this person, if not meh.

How do you choose your friends and how do you behave around them?
Still unsure what friendship means...
I never chose anyone, just dealt wih whoever was there... up to the point of seeing them as burdens and ghosting.

How do you behave around strangers?
Try to be nice, try to be interested, get tired, get bitter, go home and say "NEVER AGAIN", do it again anyway.

Have a cute cat for your trouble. : 3

20180518_155807.jpg

[Adam Strange]

So you're an introvert. Yeah, I've got nothing else. Oh, weak Fi too. An introvert with weak Fi. Intuitive. Maybe ILI. . . try starting there, see what you think?

What? My first impression from her introductory poem was IEI-Ni. Maybe I should read her post.....

OK, done. Still IEI-Ni, but very young.

[niffer]

Thanks for the cat. Very fluffy.

I think you have Pness.

[Adam Strange]

Where do you see Fe? This is why I said weak Fi:

@squark, she could be ILI. Certainly the part about ghosting and reading about everything, doesn't like smiling and nobody ever calling her fake are ILI, but I feel those were outweighed by
1. Needing power (Se-seeking).
2. Willingness to give someone power to heal her.
3. People are always telling her stuff. (There's your Fe - she's an "apparently" sympathetic listener.)
4. Doesn't know if she has any interests herself. (This is also an extreme form of Fe's adaptation to the crowd.)
5. Feels comfortable only when alone (can be a defense against Fe cork-in-the-sea syndrome)
6. Feels that she is weird, but can socialize by playing a role. ILI's are simply dicks to other people, no regrets.
7. People call her beautiful. Personally, I think that IEI's are the most beautiful type, and they remain so all their lives.
8. Doesn't like sugar-coaters or people who are sticky. Is that more seeking an SEE or an SLE?
9. Signed off with an offer of a cat and a heart. Not like any ILI's that I know.

I said IEI-Ni because she's not using her Fe to charm people, but rather is offering a very intuitive poem.

What are your specific reasons for thinking ILI?

[Myst]

@NorthenRose weird you wouldn't know what "interest" means o_o

Thanks for the cat =)

[Adam Strange]

You make some great points, @squark. You might be right. Your's is the kind of analysis which makes me admire LSI's and Ti-doms in general, and kind of makes me jealous that I don't think that way. Nevertheless, I'll keep an open mind and I choose to wait for more info to be better convinced one way or the other.

I probably should have placed a disclaimer on my earlier analysis.

P.S.
With all due respect for the written word, that Reinin quote sounds insane.

[Vespertine]

Few things I would like to clarify!
@Adam Strange in italic.
1. Needing power (Se-seeking).
> I was merely explaining some observation, I do not wish for power or even attention that much.
2. Willingness to give someone power to heal her.
> Observation again. Not on my bucket list.
4. Doesn't know if she has any interests herself.
> If interest was defined, I might be able to give an answer, I am lost as to what it means...
ILI's are simply dicks to other people, no regrets.
That is a stereotype... and the main reason I don't relate to ILI in general. They just seem so cold and uncaring... .-.
9. Signed off with an offer of a cat and a heart. Not like any ILI's that I know.
I like drawing hearts and showing off my cat, she cute, and I know to add such, along with emotes, makes people think more positively of what I write and more likely to answer... though that likely works more with Fs...
Still IEI-Ni, but very young
Like, how young? lol
... is offering a very intuitive poem.
I don't get how people see poetry in what I write... I describe images I see in my mind.
Also, felt like writing something off as an introduction.
Though, I tend to be seen as flirty but I don't get it...


Perhaps I must add if I like someone I can become outrageously cuddly... but it is rare.
I don't want strangers to touch me at all.
@squark
I think similar to you, introverted and the rest seems 50/50, it is a little annoying in a way. I fail to see Fe in myself, unless I don't understand it well.
I have read that hardships can make someone develop their weaker functions, as my life has kind of been a nightmare until recently, I might have developed mined oddly. I find myself so ENTp caricature in social situations.
I am so damn not funny it is a joke.

[Vespertine]

That Reinin quote... I have felt like a white canvas being repainted my whole life...

[Adam Strange]

Few things I would like to clarify!
@Adam Strange in italic.
1. Needing power (Se-seeking).
> I was merely explaining some observation, I do not wish for power or even attention that much.
2. Willingness to give someone power to heal her.
> Observation again. Not on my bucket list.

I didn't mean you sought power yourself. Rather that you, like your analogous phone, need power from an external source to accomplish things.

4. Doesn't know if she has any interests herself.
> If interest was defined, I might be able to give an answer, I am lost as to what it means...
ILI's are simply dicks to other people, no regrets.
That is a stereotype... and the main reason I don't relate to ILI in general. They just seem so cold and uncaring... .-.

ILI's DO seem cold and uncaring. They are actually more human than I am, but they never show it, so they do seem cold and uncaring. I have a few really good ILI lifetime friends, so I know.

9. Signed off with an offer of a cat and a heart. Not like any ILI's that I know.
I like drawing hearts and showing off my cat, she cute, and I know to add such, along with emotes, makes people think more positively of what I write and more likely to answer... though that likely works more with Fs...
Still IEI-Ni, but very young
Like, how young? lol

Young enough to have never given your heart away. In most people, that might be under 19, but with others, who knows?

... is offering a very intuitive poem.
I don't get how people see poetry in what I write... I describe images I see in my mind.
Also, felt like writing something off as an introduction.
Though, I tend to be seen as flirty but I don't get it...

It seemed poetical in the sense that it was so intuitive that the reader (me) searched for alternate meanings, which happens in poetry a lot.
You don't seem flirty to me at all, FWIW.

Perhaps I must add if I like someone I can become outrageously cuddly... but it is rare.
I don't want strangers to touch me at all.

My favorite IEI cousin feels exactly the same way. Still, lots of people feel this way.

@squark
I think similar to you, introverted and the rest seems 50/50, it is a little annoying in a way. I fail to see Fe in myself, unless I don't understand it well.
I have read that hardships can make someone develop their weaker functions, as my life has kind of been a nightmare until recently, I might have developed mined oddly. I find myself so ENTp caricature in social situations.
I am so damn not funny it is a joke.

[Adam Strange]

That Reinin quote... I have felt like a white canvas being repainted my whole life...

Reinin, I will say in all generosity, was mistaken about that applying to ILI's. It does, however, apply very well to IEI's.

We need to ask @Capitalist Pig if he feels like he's a white canvas being repainted all his life.
I can't wait for his reply.

[Vespertine]

@Adam Strange
What would be "external sources of power"?
And humane while we are at it, how do you define it? (I have heard being angel-like to not killing people on this one)
I am older than 19, though I have never "given my heart away"... the people I kind of liked in the past were lists of red flags, not going there.
"It seemed poetical in the sense that it was so intuitive that the reader (me) searched for alternate meanings, which happens in poetry a lot."
Interesting... my mind might be thinking something of this... if it had the decency of telling me, that would be great.
Flirty in person I mean, in the way I move... like fussing with my hair all the time... -w-

I can't help but think it is farfetched that I would be the "unicorn" type... even pretentious, though ILI is the female unicorn type...

Either way... IEI-Ni is gets mistyped as ILI-Ni and ILI-Ni as IEI-Ni it seems... so what the eff.
Still have a tough time with the three letters type system... -w-b

[Bertrand]

integrity of inner situation extended into time is 4d and what Filatova is describing, sort of, in action and in more concrete terms (as much as a thing can be). they're both right, its just that reinin creates this baseline idea of Ni and leaves it to the reader to sort of see how in its base position this gets applied globally, whereas filatova concretely describes what that looks like with a little behavioral description

its actually this kind of innate Ni base + Te ego that makes socionics somewhat superfluous because it naturally generates these kinds of archetypal models that are projected onto everyone, which is precisely what socionics tries to do in a more universal and explicit way in explaining how personalities interact. the thing is by viewing people as inherently "roving Nis" because the ILI is, what they're really interacting with is their projections for the fact that not everyone is this way. the thing is the projections get refined over time and a degree of accuracy is nevertheless there, but its more like a "dream world" that despite how well it may work, rarely if ever comes to see people as more than that, although it does not know this is in some sense unusual. this aspect is not particularly exclusive to ILI or IEI, rather their method of interpreting the archetypal images and interacting with the world differs in being Te or Fe, which puts them in different quadra and focuses their results on relationships or systems. hence why ILI is more at home in a technological society, is more able to "find work" etc

[Adam Strange]

@squark, I went back and read the section in Reinin's book that you quoted from, and I thought it was either a bad translation or was taken out of context.

Function #1- subjective intuition ([IMG]file:///C:/Users/Owner/AppData/Local/Temp/msohtmlclip1/01/clip_image001.png[/IMG]): the integrity of the internal situation is the principle of existence of this type. If a Hamlet wears and frequently changes masks due to his creative function, a Balzac is able to really 'become' someone. When losing myself I remain myself. This trait becomes evident in a Balzac's relationships. This type has a natural gift of tuning in the mood of their vis-à-vis. A Balzac has the gift of being exactly what you want him/her to be. There is nothing he does not know about himself: “Don't teach me about myself”. People of this type often say: “I do not need socionics. It is of no use to me. I know all this and can do it all. I do not need it to communicate with people and the society”. In a sense it is true: Balzac is more aware of his and his partner’s condition than any other type. The inward orientation is more pronounced in a Balzac than in any other introverted types.


It seems to me that ILI's have fairly good intuition, but they certainly don't "become" someone by believing that they understand them. They are not a canvas upon which other people write; they just have a pretty realistic view of others and don't let their personal wishes interfere too much in their projections. This makes them great accountants and financial advisors, because they are pessimistic about risk and don't generally invest in overly hopeful ventures. But they certainly aren't being exactly what you want them to be. That is just ludicrous. I've never seen an ILI "adjust himself to others" to avoid Fe. Mostly, they walk away and begin to shop for sniper rifles.

On the other hand, I've talked to many IEI's who are so sensitive to other people's expressions that they "become" that person briefly. Either that, or they seem to "know" exactly what the other person is thinking by picking up tiny clues. This makes them great writers of stories, because they understand the human character so well and their intuition creates believable plots. The more intuitive ones may dive deeply into their dark internal worlds, while the more Fe ones may be the flywheel of the party, but they don't go out shopping for sniper rifles.

[Bertrand]

look ILI is the mastermind, they're probably 5d chessing you, whereas you only understand IEI's basic politness as being the mode for them to get them where they want to go vis-a-vis placating you. consider that you're just an egotist (and balzac knows this) and that he's built that in and just because he's not stroking you like IEI doesn't mean he hasn't "become" you in figuring you out... rather he's probably got you dead to rights and you don't even know it

balzac can absolutely become someone within the meaning of "telling them what they want to hear" they don't just get by on it in (in a Fe sense) and in concrete interactions if its not necessary, its more abstract precisely why they're good at game theory and long term projections. in other words, what makes you think ILI has anything to gain by being nice to you, they probably have it all worked out, despite the fact you think they might be better off being more IEI to you. its really your expectation of their perceived need to do something that frames whether or not they're "becoming" someone with the degree of regularity you think is appropriate. if IEI is empathetic in a Fe way more or less continually, and you judge that as being more appropriate to the circumstances sufficient to say they "become" people more than balzac, just makes me think you value Fe because its somehow more salient to you when it should be the opposite. IEI is manipulating people ethically in the same way balzac is aiming at some long term efficiency. neither is real and both are "becoming" the person in the sense reinin is talking about, which is a kind of artificiality either way. the Fe is just more direct because its in the room so to speak, whereas Te is more diffuse. in other words, there's an assumption here that to become someone, someone must exhibit a kind of effusive "empathy"

[Adam Strange]

@Adam Strange
What would be "external sources of power"?

In the case of a female IEI, an external source of power would be a strong man.
In the case of a female ILI, an external source of power might be a powerful computer, giving her the ability to control the world through computer hacking.

And humane while we are at it, how do you define it? (I have heard being angel-like to not killing people on this one)

I knew I should have used different terms when I said that. ILI's and LII's have 2D Fi, while LIE's have 1D Fi. The ethical function is better developed in ILI's than in LIE's. IEI's have 4D Fi, although it is unvalued.

I am older than 19, though I have never "given my heart away"... the people I kind of liked in the past were lists of red flags, not going there.
"It seemed poetical in the sense that it was so intuitive that the reader (me) searched for alternate meanings, which happens in poetry a lot."
Interesting... my mind might be thinking something of this... if it had the decency of telling me, that would be great.
Flirty in person I mean, in the way I move... like fussing with my hair all the time... -w-

I can't help but think it is farfetched that I would be the "unicorn" type... even pretentious, though ILI is the female unicorn type...

Either way... IEI-Ni is gets mistyped as ILI-Ni and ILI-Ni as IEI-Ni it seems... so what the eff.
Still have a tough time with the three letters type system... -w-b

Your prose now seems to have a harder edge ("what the eff"). Maybe you are ILI after all.

Honestly, there isn't enough evidence yet to make a determination. Keep interacting with people on the forum, and your type will become evident by inter-type relationships. Probably.

[niffer]

7. People call her beautiful. Personally, I think that IEI's are the most beautiful type, and they remain so all their lives.

I ain't even here.

[Adam Strange]

I ain't even here.

Lol. You get to look at them.

Anyway, @niffer, Duals often resemble each other.....

[niffer]

@NorthenRose

How do you relate to the IEI and ILI descriptions? Also what about other descriptions such as ones for IEE, SEI? ... Because I see those as possible too currently.

Why is your username Northen and not Northern?

[niffer]

Lol. You get to look at them.

Anyway, @niffer, Duals often resemble each other.....

Alright. Off the hook.

[Adam Strange]

@Adam Strange The quote is exactly the one that you posted btw. The wording is identical. And like I pointed out, the same idea is echoed in other authors. The idea is that Ni allows the ILI to adjust him/herself to others, to play a role:

Another version of the same idea by yet another author

OK, @squark. All the authors say it. I just counted up my cumulative years knowing ILI's and it came to 137 years, and I've never seen one one play a role other than being themselves in all circumstances. About the most I've seen in that direction is that they might refrain from speaking their minds, when doing so would severely damage their prospects.

However, the OP stated that "I have felt like a white canvas being repainted my whole life...", which is a subjective reaction within herself, not an intentional change made in behavior for the purpose of manipulation.

[Adam Strange]

Alright. Off the hook.

It's dat Role Fe, cutie.

[niffer]

I'm trying to eat dinner, Adam.

[Adam Strange]

I'm trying to eat dinner, Adam.

IrLol, sorry. That was a bit over-the-top, it's true.

[Vespertine]

All the chessplaying and calculating tendancies of Ni dom, I can't really see myself in it... do I just fail to view myself properly is the question.
@Adam Strange
Humm... oh ye sur wan me stronk man...
Though I don't see what I could be using as external source of power, maybe others to fuel my mind of new ideas and knowledges?
Making people think well of me so they leave me alone?
I sure write a lot more when social stuff happens, it either ruins my nights or gets poured out on paper.

Oh right, facts, not opinion... used to people having opinions about everything, been gathering those actually.
I have been surounded by Ethical types my whole life, they feel something about everything, it’s almost cute...
Welp, that's getting close to mean, better go sleep. x.x

[Vespertine]

@niffer
I could not spell my own name correctly if my life depended on it... thank you for pointing it out -w-b

IEI> being paradoxical, the door slam, being like a light in the darkness for desperate butterflies though I despise it, been told I cannot be anything else than ethical, Ni seems to be what people see me as the most.

ILI> Seems like they be paradoxical too, door slamers too, don't enjoy feeling talks, wonder why they keep telling me those things and what I am supposed to do with it, I don't see Fe in me, I feel clueless in most social interactions which I often find corrupting, grown up around ethicals and can't relate to them, I have a "if you push my boundaries, I get assertive-mean" thing, I change words I find too harsh when I write as to not step on a mine and have to fix it, I find "please", "thanks", and "sorry" to be empty words and use them because it is easier to navigate people abusing those words though I find it infuriating when I think of it, I find hard to respect/take seriously someone who requires lots of afore mentionned empty words or expressive reactions as they are things I force and therefore have to ruin my integrity to please them... this is starting to look like an angry rant... x.x

IEE> I know one and we just don't think alike at all. maybe more EII, I seem more extroverted than I am.

EII> I lack the strong values that seems to go with Fi...

SEI> From what I understand of Si, it doesn't suit me, but I am unsure as to how to phrase it.

While I am at it, I have no inner consistancy and contradicte myself often and I don't care anymore.

[Adam Strange]

All the chessplaying and calculating tendancies of Ni dom, I can't really see myself in it... do I just fail to view myself properly is the question.
@Adam Strange
Humm... oh ye sur wan me stronk man...
Though I don't see what I could be using as external source of power, maybe others to fuel my mind of new ideas and knowledges?
Making people think well of me so they leave me alone?
I sure write a lot more when social stuff happens, it either ruins my nights or gets poured out on paper.

Oh right, facts, not opinion... used to people having opinions about everything, been gathering those actually.
I have been surounded by Ethical types my whole life, they feel something about everything, it’s almost cute...
Welp, that's getting close to mean, better go sleep. x.x

About that disclaimer I mentioned earlier....I'm a notoriously bad typer, and I'm wrong more than half the time. However, further interactions with other people here should eventually make your type clearer.

[Vespertine]

About that disclaimer I mentioned earlier....I'm a notoriously bad typer, and I'm wrong more than half the time. However, further interactions with other people here should eventually make your type clearer.

Aww, I find this adorable.
How many people have I met who simply could never be wrong yet all contradicted each others, far too many.

[niffer]

@NorthernRose might I ask what your nationality is? Can PM too if you're more comfortable with that.

I'd think most likely IEI at this point. I also think EII is possible, but Fe creative seems much more likely. Your style of interaction doesn't remind me of a logical type's (especially not a 4D Ti one's), no.

[niffer]

That cat is very nice. It looks a lot like my friend's neighbour's cat, Meister:




very fluffy

[niffer]

I find "please", "thanks", and "sorry" to be empty words and use them because it is easier to navigate people abusing those words though I find it infuriating when I think of it, I find hard to respect/take seriously someone who requires lots of afore mentionned empty words or expressive reactions as they are things I force and therefore have to ruin my integrity to please them

Hum... although this does sound possibly Fe polr.

[niffer]

What sounds worse to you:

A partner who occasionally makes jokes at the expense of others' feelings?
Or a partner who occasionally is too busy socializing and neglects to pay their phone bill?

[niffer]

Are my multiple posts annoying you yet?

[Vespertine]

@niffer
I live on earth.

That meow super cute, I wanna pet it. *^*'

PoLR Fe... there is something weird about my Fe, no matter where it is...

A partner who occasionally makes jokes at the expense of others' feelings?
> If the person is present and sensitive, I would likely hear about it after and be expected to pick up the pieces which is annoying, though I would laugh inside mostly if I think it is true. If the person is not present, I might have something to add, unless it is pure stupid stereotype and hatred then I would reconsider seeing this "partner".
I have though felt pressure to laugh at jokes about skinny women and men as people in my vincinity were being hateful of them and bonding over their seemingly common hatred, as I was part of the group, I knew not laughing or questioning the jokes could have brought them to anger and they could have directed their hatred towards me, so safe to laugh now and never come back.
Or a partner who occasionally is too busy socializing and neglects to pay their phone bill?
> That could drive me insane... what would I even be doing with someone like that? x.x

Your multiple posts don't bother me.
Maybe if you put one word a post, I would wonder what is wrong with you, but then it could qualify as spam so meh.

[niffer]

Yeah you sound like an IEI.

I recommend disregarding the MBTI stereotypes. Here in socionics we know IEIs can be unemotional robotic bitches deep down inside.

[Vespertine]

I honestly don't want to be that but I guess I'll try... nervous laughter

[Myst]

@niffer
I live in Québec, Canada.

That meow super cute, I wanna pet it. *^*'

PoLR Fe... there is something weird about my Fe, no matter where it is...

A partner who occasionally makes jokes at the expense of others' feelings?
> If the person is present and sensitive, I would likely hear about it after and be expected to pick up the pieces which is annoying, though I would laugh inside mostly if I think it is true. If the person is not present, I might have something to add, unless it is pure stupid stereotype and hatred then I would reconsider seeing this "partner".
I have though felt pressure to laugh at jokes about skinny women and men as people in my vincinity were being hateful of them and bonding over their seemingly common hatred, as I was part of the group, I knew not laughing or questioning the jokes could have brought them to anger and they could have directed their hatred towards me, so safe to laugh now and never come back.
Or a partner who occasionally is too busy socializing and neglects to pay their phone bill?
> That could drive me insane... what would I even be doing with someone like that? x.x

Your multiple posts don't bother me.
Maybe if you put one word a post, I would wonder what is wrong with you, but then it could qualify as spam so meh.

@niffer the bolded is specifically Fe ego reasoning? I've seen some selftyped gamma NT (person wanted to stick with ILI lol though Fe PoLR was definitely out of question for that person) who'd talk in this exact same manner about how to deal with emotional expressions. I could not exclude LIE for the person eventually like I could exclude ILI, but I still wonder if that's actually beta NF reasoning and the person just wanted to feel logical lol or something. So I'm curious yeah if you've seen IEIs or EIEs reason in this way... like it's a bit machiavellian if you get what I mean. That is, a bit mechanistic description of manipulation of other people emotionally for ego-oriented reasons yet tuned into how emotions work. I will say that I have never seen any ILI that had any clue about this sort of thing in terms of group behaviour BTW. They usually have about zero clue about how to fit into a group emotionally.

More on ILIs as it pertains to the thread actually... The ILI guy I know who actually tried to utilize MBTI to get along better with people at the workplace and manipulate them was pretty smooth in his reasoning and I can buy it that it somewhat worked, but it was still not about directly talking about emotions. He was just saying "I do x thing and I'll get y person to do z" where x wasn't really about emotions but other actions. "Z" though could be about gaining the support of the person, for sure. Much like in above quote, just wanting to have a good outcome in general, that supported his own goals.

[Myst]

All the chessplaying and calculating tendancies of Ni dom, I can't really see myself in it... do I just fail to view myself properly is the question.
@Adam Strange
Humm... oh ye sur wan me stronk man...
Though I don't see what I could be using as external source of power, maybe others to fuel my mind of new ideas and knowledges?
Making people think well of me so they leave me alone?
I sure write a lot more when social stuff happens, it either ruins my nights or gets poured out on paper.

Oh right, facts, not opinion... used to people having opinions about everything, been gathering those actually.
I have been surounded by Ethical types my whole life, they feel something about everything, it’s almost cute...
Welp, that's getting close to mean, better go sleep. x.x

You managed to try and conjure up a gamma NT vibe here lol? But it's also similar to the reasoning style crazedrat displayed on here earlier. Kind of (trying to appear?) crude while pondering stuff. His type was debated between IEI and ILI but most people would go for IEI for him (me too). I've seen definite IEI-Ni's display this too, though in a less obvious way than crazedrat.

OK, so, on the whole so far I see you as far more poetic-expressive than ILIs lol. Have yet to hear the white canvas thingy from any of them. The Te subtypes especially are very much clueless when it comes to not so rational things while ILI-Ni's just seem dark depressive to me.



A few more notes.

PoLR Fe... there is something weird about my Fe, no matter where it is...

Even my IEI-Fe ex bf told me he had to "learn" Fe and that it was so unnatural for him to "Fe" when in groups. (He was using MBTI though not Socionics.) And he was Fe subtype most definitely. I wonder if it's the part of socializing about being more present (Se) that gets seen as unnatural by IEIs.

A partner who occasionally makes jokes at the expense of others' feelings?
> If the person is present and sensitive, I would likely hear about it after and be expected to pick up the pieces which is annoying, though I would laugh inside mostly if I think it is true. If the person is not present, I might have something to add, unless it is pure stupid stereotype and hatred then I would reconsider seeing this "partner".

How do you pick up the pieces?

[Vespertine]

@Myst
You managed to try and conjure up a gamma NT vibe here lol?
Not trying to. No matter which ones, the T and F functions won't stop arguing in my head. I feel like two person because of it, the F persona talks, no listens to people, while the T only come out when I’m alone.
I don't feel like a whole person in front of others and I hate it.
(That can sound Fe-Ti)
Welp, I am a gloomy piece of shet and I want rant...

Even my IEI-Fe ex bf told me he had to "learn" Fe and that it was so unnatural for him to "Fe" when in groups. (He was using MBTI though not Socionics.) And he was Fe subtype most definitely. I wonder if it's the part of socializing about being more present (Se) that gets seen as unnatural by IEIs.
Not sure what to think of it... an Fe learning to Fe sounds like a fu..gio nightmare.

You pick up pieces by letting people talk, whine, cry, betch, and generaly act like huge babies while saying they are right to feel this way and "listening", though they mostly repeate themselves so don't worry if you miss a part.

Btw, I am pissed, not at you but I can read it so, don't mind it, no questions. Kthx.

[golden]

@squark, I went back and read the section in Reinin's book that you quoted from, and I thought it was either a bad translation or was taken out of context.

Function #1- subjective intuition ([IMG]file:///C:/Users/Owner/AppData/Local/Temp/msohtmlclip1/01/clip_image001.png[/IMG]): the integrity of the internal situation is the principle of existence of this type. If a Hamlet wears and frequently changes masks due to his creative function, a Balzac is able to really 'become' someone. When losing myself I remain myself. This trait becomes evident in a Balzac's relationships. This type has a natural gift of tuning in the mood of their vis-à-vis. A Balzac has the gift of being exactly what you want him/her to be. There is nothing he does not know about himself: “Don't teach me about myself”. People of this type often say: “I do not need socionics. It is of no use to me. I know all this and can do it all. I do not need it to communicate with people and the society”. In a sense it is true: Balzac is more aware of his and his partner’s condition than any other type. The inward orientation is more pronounced in a Balzac than in any other introverted types.


It seems to me that ILI's have fairly good intuition, but they certainly don't "become" someone by believing that they understand them. ... I've never seen an ILI "adjust himself to others" to avoid Fe. Mostly, they walk away and begin to shop for sniper rifles.

The Reinin quotation as translated seems to be self-contradictory when it says, “what you want him/her to be.” Otherwise the argument appears to be that ILI, opposite of the mask-changing EIE, is simply herself, knows herself as well as she wants to or needs to, and has a clear sense of where others sit in relation to her.

Having been exposed to a lot of ILI behavior, where I fall out with them is on their lack of social adaptability to other people, which looks stubborn and rude at times. But otoh, they have a lot of integrity because of this same trait and it can make them sympathetic to people they perceive to have been harmed, because they don’t make excuses for shitheads or tell people in pain to look on the bright side and so on. So in a sense they are adapted to reality before they are adapted to your feelings. I value that.

[Myst]

@Myst
You managed to try and conjure up a gamma NT vibe here lol?
Not trying to. No matter which ones, the T and F functions won't stop arguing in my head. I feel like two person because of it, the F persona talks, no listens to people, while the T only come out when I’m alone.
I don't feel like a whole person in front of others and I hate it.
(That can sound Fe-Ti)
Welp, I am a gloomy piece of shet and I want rant...

Being gloomy is more ILI than IEI but that's kind of just a heuristics. Are you usually gloomy expecting things to not turn out too well so you can't get disappointed?

Even my IEI-Fe ex bf told me he had to "learn" Fe and that it was so unnatural for him to "Fe" when in groups. (He was using MBTI though not Socionics.) And he was Fe subtype most definitely. I wonder if it's the part of socializing about being more present (Se) that gets seen as unnatural by IEIs.
Not sure what to think of it... an Fe learning to Fe sounds like a fu..gio nightmare.

Like I said he might have been referring to the Se aspect of socializing.

You pick up pieces by letting people talk, whine, cry, betch, and generaly act like huge babies while saying they are right to feel this way and "listening", though they mostly repeate themselves so don't worry if you miss a part.

So you don't really actively manage people's emotions in these situations?

Btw, I am pissed, not at you but I can read it so, don't mind it, no questions. Kthx.

No worries.


EDIT: "Or a partner who occasionally is too busy socializing and neglects to pay their phone bill?"

What in this seems so unmanageable to you?