Differences between Ne-ILE and Ti-ILE (ENTp subtypes)

[Disturbed]

I actually think that it is quite normal to have no subtype. Or to be honest I find subtype systems to be very dubious. It's very hard to convince me that 2 or 4 functions will be strengthened together. For instance in this post, some believe that ILE-Ne is more socially extroverted while others believe the opposite. So probably the subtype systems are not good enough yet. For DCNH I think it not directly related to Socionics and it's a simplified version of E9. It doesn't convince me that for instance Ne and Se will be boosted together. I'm probably LII-C but I think I only have my Ne strenghthened.

It's observable that ILE-Ti are more socially extraverted; they're more like SLE-Ti and SLE-Ti are usually pretty socially extraverted and their parents are often SLE-Ti mother and EIE-Ni father, both of whom are socially extraverted.

On the other hand, ILE-Ne tends to stay home or in just a few areas, and not endure as many physical activities similar to how IEE-Ne is, ILE-Ti tends to go to parties. Also, ILE-Ti tend to be more beautiful and attract people more and they are less judgmental, are less selective in who they choose as friends (EIE-Ni and SLE-Ti are less selective in who they're willing to be friends with compared to IEE-Ne) and in need of Fe and camaradarie, so they're more outgoing than ILE-Ne. They're also more socially skilled, follow social norms/etiquette better, have much better/greater theory of mind/cognitive empathy (but aren't necessarily more AFFECTIVELY empathetic), and don't cause anywhere near as many inappropriate scenes that aren't pertinent to the situation like ILE-Ne do. ILE-Ti also tend to look to others even strangers in attempt to find common ground with their interests (especially if it's something they're really interested in) which also contributes to them being more outgoing. ILE-Ne tend to have a harder vibe which alienates people from them, so they can't be as socially outgoing.

ILE-ti tend to attract people much more (they tend to be pretty beautiful and they're a lot more sexually aggressive and sex-seeking than the Ne subtype, sadly not with me though). There are a small percentage who are somewhat rigid and more socially introverted and they can be shy in certain circumstances, but overall they join and enjoy and participate in social groups more and prefer a louder more Beta-style atmosphere and they go more places and try more new things and aesthetics. ILE-Ne don't necessarily have better ideas either, their work is actually less original and less artistic, they tend not to produce much. Also, if the ILE-Ti isn't a psychopath, then they're actually often romantics (correlates with them being subtyped in direction of Beta and that and their romanticism and greater Fe-valuing would indicate greater social extraversion), whereas ILE-Ne doesn't do romantic gestures, doesn't have emotional memories of people they were close to. Long term memory is very reduced in ILE-Ne compared to ILE-Ti.

ILE-Ti have better Se and Si so they're more aware of what people are doing and saying and can act on it quicker, better.

ILE-Ti are much more common among people I've observed, and I've spent far more time with them. They're also definitely not much more thin, MAYBE slightly but if they are then not by much. A lot of ILE-Ti have muscular shoulders, are fat and sexy (endo-meso or meso-endo, they're relatively few ILE-Ti who are ectomorphic), part of it has to do with so many females are ILE-Ti and females have slower metabolisms and partly because they love to eat fried, greasy foods... they do that probably because they feel internally energetic and not internally over-weighted.

ILE-Ti often go into nursing, dental hygiene, acting, singing, teaching elementary/middle school, mental health professionals, visual arts, and so they tend to work with people as a team. They also go into business management where they communicate with people. They also are more likely to study psychology in college, so they go into helping professions more (even if they do it for themselves which is fine and not to help someone else).

[CR400AF]

It's observable that ILE-Ti are more socially extraverted; they're more like SLE-Ti and SLE-Ti are usually pretty socially extraverted and their parents are often SLE-Ti mother and EIE-Ni father, both of whom are socially extraverted.

I agree that ILE-Ti are more socially extroverted. But some other people have opposite observations (for instance Olimpia). I haven't met any ILE-Ti after getting into Socionics but I do know several ILE-Ne. They are very socially introverted.

What I have observed is that their Ti and Se are under developped and they have a huge problem in their Fi-PoLR hence they find it very hard to communicate with non-Ne types. One of them believes that he is INTP in MBTI. I generally agree what falsehope said and that's exactly what I have observed.

But in model A, the inert column are inert functions. So I think that instead of being to focused on Ne and Fi, the fact is that their Ti and Se are not developped enough. I think that in general, it is very hard for ILE to develop their Fi-PoLR. But if their Ti is developped enough their shouldn't be any severe problems in their Fi. It is not very convincing that 4 functions are strenghthened together. So for the ILE-Ne I have met, I think I would describe them as ILEs whose Ti and Se are not well-developped.

[Disturbed]

I agree that ILE-Ti are more socially extroverted. But some other people have opposite observations (for instance Olimpia). I haven't met any ILE-Ti after getting into Socionics but I do know several ILE-Ne. They are very socially introverted.

What I have observed is that their Ti and Se are under developped and they have a huge problem in their Fi-PoLR hence they find it very hard to communicate with non-Ne types. One of them believes that he is INTP in MBTI. I generally agree what falsehope said and that's exactly what I have observed.

But in model A, the inert column are inert functions. So I think that instead of being to focused on Ne and Fi, the fact is that their Ti and Se are not developped enough. I think that in general, it is very hard for ILE to develop their Fi-PoLR. But if their Ti is developped enough their shouldn't be any severe problems in their Fi. It is not very convincing that 4 functions are strenghthened together. So for the ILE-Ne I have met, I think I would describe them as ILEs whose Ti and Se are not well-developped.

The bolded is the very best explanation I've heard that would explain why they're more socially introverted. The ILE-Ti is more aware that opinions are different. Also, Se helps them with appearance of things and people and remembering what peoples' voices and physical features are. Being more able in Se is also really necessary for proper social functioning; Se is a very important function.

ILE-Ti are much more competent at dealing with high Fi people like me and occasionally they'll be my shoulder to cry on (not to the level SLE-Ti are though) they're pretty quick to work around my poor Ne, and more open to artistic interests, beauty, aesthetics and find intense disgust at some of things I do. I'm far from proficient at Ti, Se, or Fe, but generally ILE-Ne tend not to know what individuals want and I don't either (and especially don't always value it and generally poorly communicate that opinions are different even if I am aware which I sometimes am; I've tended to have more faith in my Te than I should have and that leads to my opinions being somewhat rigid, but they do eventually change and some people can change them more easily than others; ILE-Ti tend to be able to be able to sway my mind as well as anyone) since my socionics subtype is the Fi subtype. But ILE-Ti are a lot more entertaining (to me anyway since I find SLE-Ti entertaining, although there are some differences and ILE-Ti melodrama or genuine emotions somewhat more likely to give greater impression of intelligence), their work is still more original and beautiful and are better in love, they're able to commit to and do special things for the people they love; they have better Ni (which seems to me ot correlate highly with rememberance, foresight, sentimentality, mysticism, visualization of words, imagination, ability to plan, and dreams) which is important to me. It's like it can never be brought to an ILE-Ne's attention that their interests and wishes are different (e.g., Thomas Paine, Karl Marx). With me, it's sometimes possible (although not to the level of the Sensory subtypes of LSI and ESI, but certainly better than an LSI-Ti) and I'm sometimes willing to adjust course for those I care about, but whoever it is, has to be able to communicate with me well (and pick up the patterns in my communication problems and make their own corrections as I'm not a great communicator) and let me know that it's in my interest and that the risks to me are not real high. I can generally understand ILE-Ti arguments and commands of me, if they articulate them, basically do them with Fi, Ti, Te, and Ni (or very sharp Fe which a few have done sometimes) expressions I can understand or that don't confuse me. ILE-Ne's thoughts are just too unreliable and huge problems with their weaker Se is that they go by what they read, limited knowledge of the individual, and not external appearances. ILE-Ti aren't quite as error-prone in that regard, although they still make mistakes there but a lot of it is my fault because I don't always speak up. ILE-Ti created structures are usually more interesting, more fair, and somewhat more easily understandable (to me) than ILE-Ne ones. Some LIE-created structures are really inefficient, unfair, non-sensical, and restrictive (e.g., if Alexander Hamilton was an LIE, then Alexander Hamilton's things were really inefficient and unfair), although not to the level LSE ones are.

To be honest and sincere, I'm generally biased against base function subtypes, including my own. And my duals are ok, but they're not perfect but for the reasons mentioned above, some other things I've mentioned elsewhere and the following I really like my conflictor as much; an ILE-Ti might have a more negative detailed or at least better thought out forethought than emotionally saying it's going to be fine like LIE would which often goes against my way of thinking. Even if the outlook is pessimistic, I want to know as soon as possible what is most likely. I've heard that (and actually experienced) LIE err quite often in their forecasts (as I have with my own) and I tend to be skeptical of their forecasts while ILE-Ti can constantly improvise and with less serious errors and they're not quite as likely to just think it's definitely going to work out. While I do like LIE's physical methods I don't always like their long super-detailed instructions that they expect to be followed to every letter or give me the impression that I will follow it to every letter that it's all absolutely necessary; ILE-Ti can take good shortcuts (even though I'm skeptical of those too) when it doesn't have to do with entertainment.

But I'd much rather wind up in a marriage with or have an LIE child compared to EIE. An EIE romantic relationship with me is something I really want to avoide forever.

[The Reality Denialist]

But in model A, the inert column are inert functions. So I think that instead of being to focused on Ne and Fi, the fact is that their Ti and Se are not developped enough. I think that in general, it is very hard for ILE to develop their Fi-PoLR. But if their Ti is developped enough their shouldn't be any severe problems in their Fi. It is not very convincing that 4 functions are strenghthened together. So for the ILE-Ne I have met, I think I would describe them as ILEs whose Ti and Se are not well-developped.

Lately I have begun to put more presence behind me. It is kind of hard when I have been doing stuff that does not really support my ego, namely Ni. Once that function exceeds normal usage it really puts you in lower energy and non-verbal position. I prefer to break the cycle but it is not instant.