Simpler broader traits of sociotypes should have a higher priority on forum typings so that I dunno, people can actually discuss and argue the basics first before throwing out random ass traits that are far more detailed and unused than most people are capable of discussing. There's no point in arguing about types unless you start with dichotomies like I/E, N/S, T/F, P/J. Though if you use visual identification then it's more difficult to talk about lol, so just maybe it would be good to have a separate VI (even if it your official type for the person) type from the basic socionics dichotomy-based type.
Part of the issue is that there isn't a clearly delineated purpose of socionics on this forum. Is it meant to be a personality test? A method to determine one's cognition? The connection between behavioural traits and visual identification? It tries to do all three and more yet fails (imo) because the subsystems conflicts with one another and the underlying purpose of the theory is gone.
Personally, I think that socionics should be about two things: cognition and intertype relations. We define a system of 16 archetypes with particular cognitive preferences and resulting cognitive styles. We then consider, from a purely cognitive perspective, how types would interact based on those preferences. High level behaviours get in the way because of emergent behaviour. I think this should be it's purpose because personality-wise, big 5 is already the standard model. Moreover, it would allow a stronger foundation since Jung's original thoughts were cognitive in nature coupled with some behavioural consequences.
The other option would be for socionics to be a higher level personality system like MBTI, but its depth would be lost, which would be unfortunate, even if it's not scientifically substantiated.
EDIT: I should note that by "interact" I mean areas where types would clash and construct from a cognitive perspective. For example, Se bases have Ni DS, so when speaking to an Ni type they may get what they want/need. Rather than a behavioural interaction.
----- FarDraft, 2020
@Sol if you think you're some authority on typology, then why have you not got your type displayed on your profile? What purpose does hiding it serve?
If Socionics was a cult, we wouldn't be so skilled at making valid-sounding arguments showing how others act like fanatics. Those who say that Socionics teaches nothing but falsehood also cannot explain how its adherents always show great ingenuity at managing to be unpalatable to all whenever they converse. Socionics is not a cult.
Improving your happiness and changing your personality for the better
Jungian theory is not grounded in empirical data (pdf file)
The case against type dynamics (pdf file)
Cautionary comments regarding the MBTI (pdf file)
Reinterpreting the MBTI via the five-factor model (pdf file)
Do the Big Five personality traits interact to predict life outcomes? (pdf file)
The Big Five personality test outperformed the Jungian and Enneagram test in predicting life outcomes
Evidence of correlations between human partners based on systematic reviews and meta-analyses of traits
Plenty of petty squabbling and invalidating of others can happen within cults. However, even if Socionics were a full-fledged cult, it would have to be a low-stakes cult, as I’ve pointed out before. No one is asking us to pay for things, to turn against our families, to work for little to no money, to recruit new believers, and the like.
We have no charismatic leader, living or dead. We’re not being exploited. Brainwashed—I give you that one.
LSI: “I still can’t figure out Pinterest.”
Me: “It’s just, like, idea boards.”
LSI: “I don’t have ideas.”
I'm sorry to say this (although I feel nobody should be above criticism): I know I speak for many dozens of people when I say that I find such remarks deeply insulting to the memory of Aušra Augustinavičiūtėčiūtėčiūtėčiūtė, whose name is never far from our lips.
How dare you insult our leader! Next you'll be saying her teachings were in error!
Stratiyevskaya did nothing wrong.
“I want the following word: splendor, splendor is fruit in all its succulence, fruit without sadness. I want vast distances. My savage intuition of myself.”
― Clarice Lispector
Lol socionics isn't a cult. It's just an obsessive hobby.
Speaking of leaders. I still have functioning Discord server around which has a channel called "The temple of Gulenko".
MOTTO: NEVER TRUST IN REALITY
Winning is for losers
Sincerely yours,
idiosyncratic type
Life is a joke but do you have a life?
Joinif you dare https://matrix.to/#/#The16Types:matrix.org
I think once you experience true supervision then there is no coming back (and your status is below of supervisor). It comes out from nowhere.
MOTTO: NEVER TRUST IN REALITY
Winning is for losers
Sincerely yours,
idiosyncratic type
Life is a joke but do you have a life?
Joinif you dare https://matrix.to/#/#The16Types:matrix.org
I don't think most people know what supervision is. It's often not necessarily constant critique and damage. It's waking up one day to find you've been deceived for a long time and all your shit is already fucked/ruined/gone.
The good part is that the supervisor often entrusts certain resources to the supervisee, thinking they'll never really come to an understanding of what the supervisor has done to them. The supervisee can then use those resources in a gambit for vengeance.
The supervisee can have a lot of power over the supervisor. That power is in the id, though. Supervisee can tell supervisor, "You know that DS shit you depend on? Kiss that shit goodbye."
This is why supervisor eventually gives way to supervisee. The supervisor can hit the superego, but the supervisee can undermine the core of the supervisor's psyche.
Last edited by Aramas; 12-06-2018 at 10:26 PM.
Supervision is an attack from similar kind of person constantly to a PoLR while others might have great difficulties seeing it. It is subtle but it gets you every time.
MOTTO: NEVER TRUST IN REALITY
Winning is for losers
Sincerely yours,
idiosyncratic type
Life is a joke but do you have a life?
Joinif you dare https://matrix.to/#/#The16Types:matrix.org
There Rose have added arguments for her F type. And more basis to suppose Fe for her.
I do not understand what F types want from the typology more. To play in types and intrigues or to get the truth and reasonable argumentation to types related.
I can't even to assign this to Fe types only, with their the lack of interest in objective reality. As I saw the similar from ESI, for example - the strong negative emotions on thinking her other type than she thought herself. F types tend to have too emotional links with own opinions and so react by emotions when those opinions get the opposing. Se valued and Fe valued types - should to have it as more expressed. Also sometimes people choose "comfortable" types for themselves, alike to fit to good IR with someones and to bad IR with others - this play with the reality is more expected from F types too, which easier fool themselves and tend to follow to emotional reasons for opinions.
The only hope, - F type or not, - after some time the reason and some thinking should lead to adequate reality perceptions, as observations will make noticable more of contradictions with incorrect opinions. Or to stop using of the types theory and rejecting of the typology, in case the reality is chosen to stay below emotions in types related.
Fe tend to drama. *sigh*
In her art preferences are _many_ pictures of violence, death, victimish fantasies - much more common for Se valued. Pinterest is from her signature.
@Venus Rose
It's not constructive to run away from the reality and such to feel offenced on the truth about it. Your emotions will be better when you'll organise the reality to better way, but not when will keep tring to live in sweet dreams. When people become adults - they understand this more and more, what makes them more responsible.
I was not bad enough in the previous lifes so was given base T.
Last edited by Sol; 12-28-2018 at 11:05 PM.
When people ask you to stop coming at them with unwanted typing advice and you relentlessly seek them out across the forum anyways, why would they have any reason to stay? Your opinion as a "T type" can be just as biased as others, and I would say more so because of how incredibly set in your ways you are regarding socionics.
Yeah but I think @Sol has been at this longer than the average user and has a LOT of collected data and experiences to share. I can understand where he's coming from in that regard. And it can be very frustrating for an experienced typist to share their views among relative newbies who do not understand how convoluted socionics really is, to come along simple minded and just disregard the hard work and experience of others who ultimately are only trying to help and preserve the integrity of their accumulated knowledge before yet more error creeps in and easily deludes the masses.
~* astralsilky
Each essence is a separate glass,
Through which Sun of Being’s Light is passed,
Each tinted fragment sparkles with the Sun,
A thousand colors, but the Light is One.
Jami, 15th c. Persian Poet
Post types & fully individuated before 2012 ...
His ideas on types tend to be more accurate than most here or at least on track and I don't know how long he's been at this but I have been for almost 20 years. Experience is worth something. My typical reaction to a lot of typings on here is that they are thinking too shallow yet and are typing way out in left field. But it is a learning process and everyone needs grace to learn and be willing to consider other views even if not accepting them ultimately.
~* astralsilky
Each essence is a separate glass,
Through which Sun of Being’s Light is passed,
Each tinted fragment sparkles with the Sun,
A thousand colors, but the Light is One.
Jami, 15th c. Persian Poet
Post types & fully individuated before 2012 ...
~* astralsilky
Each essence is a separate glass,
Through which Sun of Being’s Light is passed,
Each tinted fragment sparkles with the Sun,
A thousand colors, but the Light is One.
Jami, 15th c. Persian Poet
Post types & fully individuated before 2012 ...
~* astralsilky
Each essence is a separate glass,
Through which Sun of Being’s Light is passed,
Each tinted fragment sparkles with the Sun,
A thousand colors, but the Light is One.
Jami, 15th c. Persian Poet
Post types & fully individuated before 2012 ...
While we’re on this topic I’ve always typed Sol LSE. I find his typology ideas and general insights to be decent actually but he can’t apply them at all almost when trying to type people over the internet. I ascribe this to horrible theory of mind as a result of Ni polr. That’s probably also why he always insists on seeing videos of people. He’s typed himself correctly (IMO) and decisively though, which is more than many on here can say.
Such a shame he always contorts them into idiotic typings for people.
~* astralsilky
Each essence is a separate glass,
Through which Sun of Being’s Light is passed,
Each tinted fragment sparkles with the Sun,
A thousand colors, but the Light is One.
Jami, 15th c. Persian Poet
Post types & fully individuated before 2012 ...
I'm not trying to throw dirt on Sols understanding of socionics or anything like that, I think he can be very accurate a decent amount of the time, and sometimes biased, like anyone. Going out of your way to continually throw your opinion at someone doesn't seem to be an effective way of getting them, or others, to take your opinion seriously, and it also reflects poorly on the forum imo.
A firmer opinion than most perhaps, which makes it seem like that.
Are there any updated @Sol typing lists on here?
Not saying they can't, just not as likely, looking at the larger picture. Intuitives do correlate with openness to experience. Being interested in something like this is similar to being interested in philosophy, which is far too removed from the more practical concerns of most people. You would most likely, although not necessarily, have to be rather open to be receptive to this stuff in the first place.Being intuitive is just a different way of thinking. It has its advantages and disadvantages.