@Kill4Me, I'm curious to know what you've typed me as. Or is there not enough information to go off of?
@Kill4Me, I'm curious to know what you've typed me as. Or is there not enough information to go off of?
@Chae's type is a mystery.
Going by VI, I'm pretty sure she's not Gamma. I don't know the Alpha ESE type very well, so I'll set that aside. I feel that she VI's Beta, either SLE or EIE, and yet the images in her posts strongly remind me of IEE's.
My feeling is that some stress in her life is distorting the picture. But of course, I'm usually wrong.
If I had to pick one type, I'd say SLE. But EIE is a strong contender. This is going strictly by images.
But of course, I'm usually wrong.
*EDIT* I should add that I posted this against my better judgement.
I think thats accurate, I'd even venture LSI as an outside possibility. the problem is the e-persona is so different than what it would be like in the real presence of a person. its hard to tell, a lot of e-typing is futile I believe, so the confusion online should not reflect when people confidently assert they know the types of the people surrounding them in real life. I believe that
e-persona can present itself however it wants, up to and including just bouncing around, intentionally or not, I think its up to individuals whether they want to really commit themselves to finding their true self or whether that's even important to them. i'm not saying it has to be, sometimes they just want to bounce around or have bigger fish to fry and thats ok too. that type can be confusing should come as no surprise
https://youtu.be/bsv-9MmMLyg?t=1828
Last edited by Bertrand; 03-29-2018 at 12:58 AM.
"Evidence" You're cute!
Hm... my questionnaire and the surprising things about you thread (or was that the name?) have plenty of stuff to go through. I go off on my blog as well. Other than that, here is the official and candid Chae overview in two troubling big ass paragraphs if you dare. I talk about my studies, relationships, hobbies, and mostly... just problems. Seatbelts on.
Last edited by Chae; 03-29-2018 at 02:22 AM.
^Looks pretty SLE to me.
Incidentally, I remember seeing a picture of your mother, @Chae, and she looked like a nice person.
'Course, they say that VI isn't always reliable.
@Chae - is your type being discussed? I wanted to chip in: i remember one of our first interactions being you coming across my 'type me" thread and dismissing it as bizarre. To me it was anything but. Basically, i said to the forum "type me on these few facts" and i kept adding more facts as i went along (they were all true things that actually took place).
I don't know what that says about the way we relate to one another, but i admit i was taken aback by you dismissing it as bizarre (and then deciding that it was Ni). In fact, Sol has a similar ongoing thread that s/he has titled "post interesting facts about yourself" - nothing out of the ordinary it seems.
Anyway, not sure what to make of it haha.
I agrer Chae seems EIE
The decisive thing is not the reality of the object, but the reality of the subjective factor, i.e. the primordial images, which in their totality represent a psychic mirror-world. It is a mirror, however, with the peculiar capacity of representing the present contents of consciousness not in their known and customary form but in a certain sense sub specie aeternitatis, somewhat as a million-year old consciousness might see them.
(Jung on Si)
EIE-Fe? that text def seem Fe and Se HA.
There is a lot of evidence for Se valuing -- she's said in the past that she desires fame/success and is enamored with the artificial, hypersexualized look of pop stars.
I have long said Chae was EIE, with ESE as maybe a second possibility. Actually Chae is by far one of the easiest-to-type people I've typed on this forum...I occasionally consider ESE but I find it hard to justify.
And oh look, here's some more evidence:
"I don't accept anything below [an A], I am that shallow"
Again this is pretty typical status-seeking / social-climbing EIE behavior (Se/Fe valuing).
"writing extremely controversial papers" -- does not shy away from controversy, in fact enjoys stirring it up, again points to Se valuing.
"I think I feel ashamed of things I truly like because I fear negative judgment and humiliation like the plague." -- very typical Fe valuing, less likely that an IEE would say this.
"I need to get my priorities straight" -- Ti and more likely TiSe seeking.
"My only true motivation is feeling outward achievement and approval, hence my personality molds to that. I will portray different kinds of personas to suit what I want to pursue. Every social environment makes me become someone else"
This says it all -- Fe leading + Se mobilizing in a nutshell (at least one manifestation of it). Plenty of Se valuing here -- everything is about the appearance, nothing about being of practical, immediate use in people's lives (aka Si ego).
"My parents think of me as rather isolated and a lone fighter"
"my fellow students think I'm ... cut-throat and highly competitive without socializing much"
If there is any truth to this it is waaay EIE > ESE. Chae is a person of extremes, not balance -- "the mega try-hard", "all going toward the extreme". Her aspirations mostly lie in the domain of Se whereas for an ESE, Se is something they "just do" and Ne is the aspiration.
All in all I'm very comfortable seeing Chae as an EIE with an outsized mobilizing function. In certain cases (not all) the mobilizing function can be more visible than the creative function, and this would be one of those cases.
Last edited by Exodus; 03-29-2018 at 09:19 AM.
i'm very curious about @ouronis type haha. I happen to like most posts s/he rarely bothers to post.
How do you ideally imagine this getting organized thingy?
I didn't consider Se base for you too long before. This kind of sounded like Ni seeking though, wanting to be inspired to hope for Ni aims. But see more below on this Se base-ish presentation being really Se base or not.- Be inspired to hope cause I am aimless as fuck
Extravert, sounds like Ep wanting Ip.- A sponge for my energy
Ep wanting Ip. Really don't think LSI is your dual, sorry- No judgment, open mind.
This isn't so IEE, seems ESxx and kind of Se base but I guess any ESxx would work for this one.- Someone who's broke because I'm a sugar mommy... Just kidding. Only a little.
- Someone to squeeze all day, I perceive love mostly on a bodily level (love language: physical touch ) and this is the free hugs station if there ever was one
Ep and Fi creative...- Tolerance for moods, fiery and easily offended personality, intense levels of stubborn attitude, overwhelming with love and hatred alike
Fe demonstrative at most, really.- General responsiveness to my bad jokes and applause for everything cause my 3 heart craves that, yes very of me
You don't want LSI, yeah lol- Someone who is very diligent but not aggressive about it. Like stop I could use some insight or advice but that's it
Sounds like you are imagining ILI in your mind lol as your dual.
Again you want to sound like Se base here, I guess I don't know if you are presenting different things about yourself here than before when you were more ideas focused in your presentation. Maybe as part of the self-discovery process?- Acknowledgement of me being in charge, am not the submissive type. I'm having an allergic reaction when looked down upon or getting teased as well, getting some war flashbacks there
Extravert looking for introvert- Just an open ear, I can go on and on and on.
Same comments on the Se base-ish thing- Being left to my own business, I don't like to be influenced esp. for big decisions. Only for organizing I could use help as I said
ILI can do that with their conscientiousness though ST types are stereotypically better here.- Someone who knows how to do paperwork yay
ILI, but you wrote a list before and that was more SLI... So I dunno what to sayIt's a lot to take and I'm not even finished That applies to whom?
I still see you as Ep really though. I don't know who sees Ej (EIE/ESE) in any of what you write... Your writing doesn't have a Rational direction, it's just you jumping between perceptions and your moods are Irrational without purpose.
***
Adding my reply to your other post:
It was interesting to read.
You are very Ep yeah, and I can understand why SLE was mentioned but overall Ti ego doesn't make sense for you. You seem too confident in your Feeling attitudes (love/hatred) and you don't seem to like anything Ti (analysis, the education stuff, organization). Things that would support SLE are that you present a lot of Se buzzwords without much Feeling in it and you added some Ni seeking theme (what do I really want), and you could be seen as Fe HA with trying to conform to expectations to get approval and to avoid negative judgment. But again you seem too confident in Feeling attitudes otherwise... you said you are great at building a connection with people too, you said this before as well, so this is consistent. Might be you were emphasizing your Se role here overall and then IEE can still work for you. Because overall I still get the impression that you get easily enamoured with a flow of your Intuitive ideas (Ne) instead of simply being action focused (Se).
Last edited by Myst; 03-29-2018 at 12:00 PM.
she's emotional
> But of course, I'm usually wrong.
when want to pull all pretty girls to your duals
> *EDIT* I should add that I posted this against my better judgement.
seems I've forced you too. my Force is strong
yeah. bad jokes and the need of "Tolerance for moods, fiery and easily offended personality, intense levels of stubborn attitude, overwhelming with love and hatred alike" is what about Fe polr types dream for. while organising is common side of ILI
All E3s are Se valuing then?
I find it hard to see how you can see Chae as any kind of Rational type. She presents very much Ep-like. Like I said, her Irrational perceptions are all over the place and her moods only follow those. Her Fe isn't channeled into Ej Rationality at all.I have long said Chae was EIE, with ESE as maybe a second possibility. Actually Chae is by far one of the easiest-to-type people I've typed on this forum...I occasionally consider ESE but I find it hard to justify.
As for EIE, really, I've yet to see the Ni ego... she does not care about the kind of foresight Ni egos do. She'd rather act in Ep fashion.
Social climbing is soc instinct...And oh look, here's some more evidence:
"I don't accept anything below [an A], I am that shallow"
Again this is pretty typical status-seeking / social-climbing EIE behavior (Se/Fe valuing).
Ne loves to do that in the land of ideas. Nothing Se-specific about it."writing extremely controversial papers" -- does not shy away from controversy, in fact enjoys stirring it up, again points to Se valuing.
Yeah that part seemed Fe HA-ish to me but I doubt she's Ti ego otherwise. I guess this detail isn't determining for type on its own."I think I feel ashamed of things I truly like because I fear negative judgment and humiliation like the plague." -- very typical Fe valuing, less likely that an IEE would say this.
I've yet to see one little bit of Se seeking in Chae. She doesn't want the LSI certainty and closure when she says she wants a non-judgmental open-minded person. She wants an Irrational relaxed Ip dual, clearly."I need to get my priorities straight" -- Ti and more likely TiSe seeking.
I've yet to hear any Fe base type talk in this fashion. And there's a reason for that."My only true motivation is feeling outward achievement and approval, hence my personality molds to that. I will portray different kinds of personas to suit what I want to pursue. Every social environment makes me become someone else"
This says it all -- Fe leading + Se mobilizing in a nutshell (at least one manifestation of it). Plenty of Se valuing here -- everything is about the appearance, nothing about being of practical, immediate use in people's lives (aka Si ego).
Note the underlined sentence: this isn't the Fe base agenda.
Chae's presentation of her notions on presenting different things reminds me of what Van der Hoop said about Intuitive perception dominating over the true people-oriented attitude of Feeling (Van der Hoop calls it the "living contact" of Feeling):
"We may enquire if it is possible to distinguish certain forms of behaviour as determined by feeling. There is a tendency in all of us in this direction, because most feeling-forms are taught to us as something of universal validity, as we saw was the case with thought-forms. We expect to find, in others those modes of expression or behaviour which according to generally accepted opinion belong to certain situations. This might lead us to the assumption that feeling provides the inner motive-power in situations where emotional expression is regulated by certain norms. Caution is, however, indicated, for appearances may be deceptive here: behaviour of this kind may be conceived intuitively and made use of, without being related to the whole of the feeling-life. In such cases, the distinction between the intuition of a feeling and the feeling itself is of great importance. In certain situations we may behave according to prevailing conceptions, while our feelings are impelling us to something quite other. Anyone skilled in the use of modes of expression can suggest a wealth of feeling, which is merely borrowed from the picture-book of human relationships; these pictures or images dwell side by side in the intuitive sphere of the person concerned, with no mutual contact, and feeling has had little to do with them. In contrast to this example, there are other people the depth of whose feelings may paralyse any capacity to express them. Is it possible to find external signs by which to judge whether a person is playing a part corresponding to some inner image, or whether he is seeking a living contact of feeling? it is often very difficult to decide; but in outstanding cases it can usually be done, and when this is the case, two factors tend to be particularly helpful. in the first place, the form of contact experienced with the person concerned is essential: where intuition is at work, the aim is the form, and through that form to influence others for some purpose; while for feeling it is not the form, but a satisfactory contact, which is the main thing, and this latter requires a reciprocal expression of feeling from others. A second characteristic is found in the circumstance that feelings imply more or less permanent modes of behaviour, representing a part of an organized whole. By this they are immediately distinguishable from spontaneous, personal modes of expression, and it is this characteristic which finds outward expression in a wider connection with other emotional manifestations, in a certain harmony of form and in a greater stability. Just as we saw introspectively that the transition from intuitive manifestations to feeling was a gradual one, so also, from the external point of view, it is impossible to draw a sharp line of demarcation."
(http://personalitycafe.com/myers-bri...tml#post134981)
I don't know if that Se is just Se role... It's true that if Chae is IEE>SEE then you would see EIE>ESE as well."My parents think of me as rather isolated and a lone fighter"
"my fellow students think I'm ... cut-throat and highly competitive without socializing much"
If there is any truth to this it is waaay EIE > ESE. Chae is a person of extremes, not balance -- "the mega try-hard", "all going toward the extreme". Her aspirations mostly lie in the domain of Se whereas for an ESE, Se is something they "just do" and Ne is the aspiration.
I really am not seeing the Ni ego in Chae (Fe lead either of course, but about no Ni in ego is what I am absolutely clear on), and I have no problem with Chae really but I can see that we'd have conflict arising from the mismatch of Rationality/Irrationality approaches if I was to be on a very close distance with her.All in all I'm very comfortable seeing Chae as an EIE with an outsized mobilizing function. In certain cases (not all) the mobilizing function can be more visible than the creative function, and this would be one of those cases.
I hope you were joking... This bit was actually one of the big lines against LSI as Chae's dual.> - No judgment, open mind.
as F-N you'll charm LSI by any bs
Quite honestly EIE is anything but that.> - Someone who's broke because I'm a sugar mommy... Just kidding. Only a little.
all suggestive F await for emotional care
The thing is she was saying she would do the squeezing and hugs herself: "someone to squeeze all day".> - Someone to squeeze all day, I perceive love mostly on a bodily level (love language: physical touch ) and this is the free hugs station if there ever was one
Se will hug you. I'm sure.
Absolutely not this kind of drama about love and hatred. That's too Irrational Fi creative/Fe demonstrative for any Lxx types's Rational F dual seeking.> - Tolerance for moods, fiery and easily offended personality, intense levels of stubborn attitude, overwhelming with love and hatred alike
LSI is the most adopted type for dramas. they like them
I personally would quit the relationship the first time this was done about switching from love to hatred whimsically for no real reason whatsoever. (I mean, if my SO directed all this at me.)
Lol, the suggestive F isn't about active applause.> - General responsiveness to my bad jokes and applause for everything cause my 3 heart craves that, yes very of me
if you like your jokes, LSI will like them too with their suggestive F
Yeah see, this is another part where it's clear Chae is not Se seeking let alone wanting any Rationality (esp. with Ne PoLR) in her life.- Someone who is very diligent but not aggressive about it. Like stop I could use some insight or advice but that's it
LSI they are responsible. Though they may press others to behave similarly. The only way - to split where he may or may not control you.
Again you ignored how this goes against LSI as Chae's dual.> - Acknowledgement of me being in charge, am not the submissive type.
We all are submissive in the regions of superid functions. Dual will not press much where you do not like.
BTW I noticed you earlier were very factual easily rejecting all bs, but lately you seem to be explaining too much with ad hoc rationalizations to justify Socionics ideas, ignoring data that would refute them.
Lol I don't think love changes people that much.> - Being left to my own business, I don't like to be influenced esp. for big decisions. Only for organizing I could use help as I said
If you'll love, you'll change the attitude. In organizing LSI are good.
Viktor is SLE-Ti lol> That applies to whom?
try to guess
Viktor seems the example. PM, Skype with him to understand LSI.
Thanks for going into it! You wrote so much, ah
As for organization, I need to get things scheduled, what do I do when and how. I'm neglectful in that regard. I also need an incentive to clean things up continuously since everywhere I go, quote my parents: "it's like a bomb detonates". Yes I am that scattered I only move things when I feel a sense of responsibility, and then I do it properly and make everyone else do it as well. Not in the kitchen, I cook and clean for myself there without much chaos. But elsewhere for sure, there's really a lot of mess. This has to be here, this has to be there type of mentality would be good. I have that expectation from my father, not from myself to be fair. He has a mantra of knowing precisely where everything is and a 30 second rule to find items when they are necessary. I attribute most of it to SP last while he is SP first and I can't measure up The organization I would need for myself would be like making my studies easier, better and faster reading technique. I torment my poor uni coach almost every semester with questions about it and so far he has given advice like "make a book pile and take 10 minutes every day", "read only things that concern your core topic, it motivates" or "reading is best around time x in the day, in the morning you do creative things and the to-do list in the afternoon" and so on. It's very helpful, just need to implement it to It's hard to break my usual routine, there isn't much change going on.
@Myst we basically had this discussion before and I'm not too keen on having it again (though I will risk a few comments ). Your theoretical base -- which includes things like cross-referencing with Enneagram which is completely irrelevant from my point of view -- is simply too different from mine.
"Note the underlined sentence: this isn't the Fe base agenda."
No it's not -- an EIE's base agenda is self-expression which is represented amply in Chae's description of herself. Many EIEs struggle with the tension between genuinely expressing themselves and their tendency to feed off of the emotional energy and reactions of others which may cause them to "lose their way". It's also mixed heavily with Se in the sense of opportunism and using emotional power to get what you want.
Aaaand 180° for this one. That's all well and good, now some examples & especially demo, role, ignoring, PoLR? I want to know more about the other extroverted and the intro elements I'm using, you're very focused on seeing only and which is a bit suspicious. Myst seemed a bit more reflected especially because she threw temperament and weaker elements into the mix. I'm not entirely convinced by either take on it though, y'all bend over backwards for that one supposed type I can smell it
Np.
Your dad is SLI yes?As for organization, I need to get things scheduled, what do I do when and how. I'm neglectful in that regard. I also need an incentive to clean things up continuously since everywhere I go, quote my parents: "it's like a bomb detonates". Yes I am that scattered I only move things when I feel a sense of responsibility, and then I do it properly and make everyone else do it as well. Not in the kitchen, I cook and clean for myself there without much chaos. But elsewhere for sure, there's really a lot of mess. This has to be here, this has to be there type of mentality would be good. I have that expectation from my father, not from myself to be fair. He has a mantra of knowing precisely where everything is and a 30 second rule to find items when they are necessary. I attribute most of it to SP last while he is SP first and I can't measure up The organization I would need for myself would be like making my studies easier, better and faster reading technique. I torment my poor uni coach almost every semester with questions about it and so far he has given advice like "make a book pile and take 10 minutes every day", "read only things that concern your core topic, it motivates" or "reading is best around time x in the day, in the morning you do creative things and the to-do list in the afternoon" and so on. It's very helpful, just need to implement it to It's hard to break my usual routine, there isn't much change going on.
Btw, here's the Ne dominant from Van der Hoop, a lot of it is just like your presentations on here.
"The vision of the extraverted intuitive individual is directed chiefly on to relationships and circumstances in the external world, which are suddenly seen in a certain context, without his being able to work out how he came to it. This knowledge, and the spontaneous activities in which it is expressed, often prove to be absolutely correct and to the point, when checked by later experience. The extraverted intuitive is also readily able to grasp the views of others. Whereas outwardly directed sensation submits to the guidance of material facts, intuition sees in the external world all manner of connections in an original and personal way, and is charged, as it were, with a mission to realize certain possibilities. These relate particularly to personal development and activity, both for the self and for others, and intuition seeks them everywhere, and has a special flair for finding them. Even in cases in which intuition is not the most important function, it will often provide a solution in circumstances in which none of the other functions can find a way out. Jung writes: “If intuition be the leading function, all ordinary conditions of life seem to be enclosures to which intuition must find a key. It is forever seeking new paths and new possibilities for outward life. For an intuitive person all circumstances soon become a prison, an oppression, and they long for liberation. Things in the outside world seem temporarily to have an exaggerated value, namely, when they can be of use for a solution, or a liberation, or for the discovery of a new possibility. They have, however, scarcely served as steps, or a bridge, when they seem no longer of any value and are cast off as unnecessary ballast. A fact is only valued so long as it opens up new and more important prospects, which in their turn will liberate the individual. Sudden possibilities become compelling motives which the intuitive mind cannot disregard, and for which it may sacrifice everything else.”
The extraverted intuitive is in many respects the opposite of the introverted instinctive person. Whereas in the latter great passivity and a certain dependence on the environment is found, the extraverted intuitive manifests much spontaneous activity and independence, even to the point of rebelling against any obligation. This may be evident at a very early age. Children of this type are merry and full of the joy of life; but often extremely tiresome. They are always thinking out something fresh, and their imagination continually suggests fresh possibilities. They have a finger in every pie, want to know everything, and at an early age seek to become persons of some influence in their environment. They like to impress others by startling remarks or behaviour, and at an early age want to be something special. Later, also, one finds among these intuitives particularly lively people, active in mind, and expressing themselves with freedom. When they are at the top of their form, there is something radiant and inspiring about them. They are able then to entertain a whole company, and have the art of bringing other people out of themselves. They are fond, also, of making use of this capacity and of being the centre of enthusiasm. They prefer to radiate enthusiasm and to stimulate others, rather than to work something out, or enter on any lasting relationship with anyone. Novelty attracts them, both in people and in things, which makes them extremely changeable. They are often pleasanter with strangers than they are in the home circle. They constantly reveal new facets of their nature, which seem to come to light spontaneously. This was eloquently expressed in the dream of a very intuitive patient. He saw in this dream a large postal delivery van which had met with an accident, and heard the people standing round express their indignation about the reckless driving. It was at the time when these vans had just been introduced. He defended the driver, saying that these chauffeurs had constantly to drive fresh cars, and thus never got to know them properly. Analysis showed that this really represented an excuse for mistakes caused by his own recklessness. He had great difficulty in managing himself, owing to the constant irruption of fresh inspirations and impulses.
Owing to this excessive spontaneity in their nature, extraverted intuitives find it extremely difficult to bind themselves to keep rules or appointments. They cannot always be depended on. Their activity is often very great, but somewhat incalculable. Their whole energy will be concentrated, almost apart from their will, on the opportunity offering at the moment. They like, however, to see quick results, and falling this, their attention is readily distracted {44} to something else. They show more impulsive energy than concentrated will-power. They are stimulated by difficulties, for they are by nature combative. They do not like to admit that they cannot do a thing, and they will discover fresh possibilities where others have failed to get on. Many discoverers and inventors belong to this type, but also the business man, who with great assurance sees new possibilities for extending his business; many lawyers, also, and politicians, even artists who manage to find new modes of expression, possess this mental structure. Among them are found leaders in many fields. In women of this type, intuition plays a part particularly in the establishment of personal relationships and in social contacts. This type of woman is peculiarly successful in initiating and organizing social activities. The pride of these people is that they see possibilities of putting something through which others regard as impossible. They are frequently better at taking the initiative in starting something than at working it out to a finish, while others will be able to profit by their idea.
With intuitive people judgment takes the form of a strong, momentary conviction, which they often express so persuasively that others are influenced by it. Sometimes it is possible to confirm this conviction logically, but not always; and even without such confirmation, such a judgment will for most intuitives be binding. Where the intuitive function is highly developed, it will often be found to be astonishingly correct. But even in such a case, an intuitive may nevertheless be profoundly mistaken, and in the absence of any capacity for rational self-criticism such mistakes will also be made with complete conviction. If he notices his mistake, he is usually very adroit in correcting it or covering it up. For these people are really startlingly clever; they give an impression of making nothing of the difficulties with which others have to struggle; they can get away with anything."
Heh, ok.
For sure we systematize some things differently. Yeah, I try to go beyond Socionics since I don't believe this model explains everything about people.
Did you read the Van der Hoop excerpt? There's a very important distinction fleshed out in that."Note the underlined sentence: this isn't the Fe base agenda."
No it's not -- an EIE's base agenda is self-expression which is represented amply in Chae's description of herself. Many EIEs struggle with the tension between genuinely expressing themselves and their tendency to feed off of the emotional energy and reactions of others which may cause them to "lose their way". It's also mixed heavily with Se in the sense of opportunism and using emotional power to get what you want.
More functions doesn't necessarily mean better when it comes to a typing argument. If you have Fe leading then you automatically have Te role etc. -- not to mention I've made the case for EIE before... But since you asked:
Ni: this goes hand in hand with Se -- your vision of wanting to do something significant or meaningful with your life/future, and also fantasizing/relating better to celebrities whom you've never met
Te: You seem decently aware of factual reality - unlike many IEIs (including on this forum) I don't think you are too head-in-the-clouds. And you can do "boring" work although you said you find it just that, boring. It's unlikely that you value it given how much you value self-expression and doing something that will set you apart (be non-boring).
Si: actually I did mention this above, in how I don't really see how you are interested in making the here-and-now better for people. Blocked with Te in the superego it means a disdain for the mundane and straightforward. You do seem interested in aesthetics but tend to approach it with Se.
Ne: from something you wrote about yourself:
"I remember the days I spent on twitter when I was young, my follower count was more important than my actual content - although I put a lot of emphasis on high-quality tweets that distinguished me - and I managed it religiously. Profile picture, header, biography, background, everything had to be perfect and outstanding and innovative since I got envious of those in my community who I thought were better than me."
To summarize, you generate ideas/plans/original content very easily but this doesn't seem to be your top priority in life: you use it as a tool to gain recognition and influence (again, Se and Fe). Perfectly in line with the Demonstrative function.
Temperament is a red herring -- it's a misleading category. To quote Lytov who addressed this exact case (!) back in 2001:
"Another fact - about the same sign. Irrationality, as it has gone from Weisband, is associated with "impulsiveness", action "according to the situation" or "according to the mood" [Weisband, 1984; Onufrienko, 1990]. Of course, "according to the situation" and "according to the mood" - this is not the same thing. But if you ask socionics the question, for what type of "performance on mood" is characteristic, or the argument "no mood" - most likely, the answer will be "irrational." Good. Then we take from the same Weissband one characteristic, where we read: "inclined to constant doubts and hesitations." Sometimes perceived by others as an unbalanced, easily excitable person "[Onufrienko, 1990]. Is not it impulsivity, not dependence on mood? But this is a fragment of the characteristic of EIE (Hamlet) - a type of rational. I think that if we delve into the characteristics, then we will find such "smooth transitions" from one opposite to the other. What conclusion do we draw from this? That the building of socionics is shaky? What socionics are we doing wrong? No. I think this conclusion should not be made. But you can take a slightly different look at the socionic signs that we use."
http://www.socioniko.net/ru/articles...-mistakes.html
Automatically only as far as the model is correct. Anyway, yeah, the real argument needs to be based on the ego functions and the dual seeking. I do still find it important to check all other data to see if the entire picture really adds up, preferably avoiding typing by just a few details...
But how does this differ from Ne base?Ni: this goes hand in hand with Se -- your vision of wanting to do something significant or meaningful with your life/future, and also fantasizing/relating better to celebrities whom you've never met
Why does it not seem top priority for her?Ne: from something you wrote about yourself:
"I remember the days I spent on twitter when I was young, my follower count was more important than my actual content - although I put a lot of emphasis on high-quality tweets that distinguished me - and I managed it religiously. Profile picture, header, biography, background, everything had to be perfect and outstanding and innovative since I got envious of those in my community who I thought were better than me."
To summarize, you generate ideas/plans/original content very easily but this doesn't seem to be your top priority in life: you use it as a tool to gain recognition and influence (again, Se and Fe). Perfectly in line with the Demonstrative function.
If you dropped all typology talk for a second and tried to summarize without any bias introduced by the model of Socionics as to what Chae shows as her top priority, how would you put that into words?
I was noting Ep based on her cognition, not simply based on "impulsiveness". As for EIE, sure, they are dependent on mood but it seems to be always within certain limits (this is what I see as Rationality), while in the case of Chae I see no such limits containing the moods. And, I find, as Rational type with Fe dual seeking, I do need those limits for duality or it would become too random for me to follow. So for example my EIE best friend does have a lot of moods and she will readily express if something excites her but she does not try to change direction with it like xEE does. And actual actions taken based on the emotional judgment just seem to have a "point" to them more from my pov than the Ep randomness.Temperament is a red herring -- it's a misleading category. To quote Lytov who addressed this exact case (!) back in 2001:
@Myst never ceases to amaze, right?
Now everyone can shut up about chae's type.
Wait...did you say sugar mommy?
“I want the following word: splendor, splendor is fruit in all its succulence, fruit without sadness. I want vast distances. My savage intuition of myself.”
― Clarice Lispector
We see interesting fight of two possible base Ti people (thehotelambush and Myst) for the brains of Chae.
Like Jedi and Sith. Which Force will be stronger?
Chae's victimish dreams for the force (Se) applied to her now come to the reality.
The whole fantasizing about celebrities thing is totally not Ne base.
Ne bases are more concerned with doing something truly creative and novel, if they seek material influence it will be in service of this goal, not the other way around (see the twitter example again).
Chae already did this: "My only true motivation is feeling outward achievement and approval, hence my personality molds to that."If you dropped all typology talk for a second and tried to summarize without any bias introduced by the model of Socionics as to what Chae shows as her top priority, how would you put that into words?
Let's not go in circles any more please...
Okay, I can see the case for EIE.
I’d appreciate it if you’d get off my back though.
Last edited by Avalonia; 03-29-2018 at 05:29 PM.
@Myst types me iei tho
I'm undecided of @Chae. She seems xEE
Anyways, I don't know what has influenced her in her life and her background. I do think that even do come in very various forms. Some lack completely awe to find something unique. It is doing their various things. Some even come off as bit dominant.
Furthering @Chae's skull cracking... I do think that she shows very little concern about long term future which is something that SEE's tend to long for or maybe she does not bring that up. I don't know.
Regarding EIE. It seems that she does not get into existential abstract loops at all. Nor does she talk about things what other consider good life/existence/whatever nor she does not talk about future of the society. That seems to put EIE typing into very questionable light.
Then comes IEE. Is @Chae a inspiring figure IRL? Good advisor? I don't know. Does she think about people in society in empathetic ways. I don't know.
Despite her big presence we know very little about her. Is she frustrated middle aged house husband from Nepal? I don't know.
MOTTO: NEVER TRUST IN REALITY
Winning is for losers
Sincerely yours,
idiosyncratic type
Life is a joke but do you have a life?
Joinif you dare https://matrix.to/#/#The16Types:matrix.org
It's like this yet again, I don't get the whys and hows of what's written, blank mind. Is it deliberate confusion? Hm.
It was rather a critique of content, not thread/post format back then, as it is now. Especially since you didn't arrive at a point even if you said you wanted to give your two cents — that is bizarre to me. I can't extract anything from your writing style. I suspect why, I'm expecting hard logics. Ethics can be pretty much empty, I know it from myself. If anything: what you've written is more of a portrait of you if this particular word stuck with you, whatchu thinkin? Didn't help much, I just know what you remember about me
there's a difference between making a "type me" thread containing a handful of sporadic facts about oneself, and Sol making a general thread where anybody can share facts about themselves, so it wasn't bizarre because sharing facts is bizarre, it was bizarre because I think you expected people to know how to type you based on insufficient (and seemingly disparate) information, especially since most people at least try to answer the questionnaire.
on a related note, I thought that thread was a practical joke so now I'm kinda amused
Well it all has to match up. So: Not bad, I shall revise and ruminate
Explain this celebrity thing though, the analysis is quite overtly caught up in it, why? It would be interesting to know why it stands out to you. To clarify my stance: Yes I like handsome and beautiful people like anyone else, they simply happen to be artists and in the public eye. Am not a 3 SX/SO for nothing They caught my attention through mere exposure. Some have dangerous levels of plastic surgery or some cakey make-up since they are forced to make themselves presentable, though I'm not in favor of it. Makeup is literal poison, plastic surgery messes with nature and threatens lives. When you write it like that it sounds like I advocate for it which I'm not, so this is my disclaimer. Beep beep, I'm against it. I can fantasize for sure but I also like to have pictures and videos to watch It's fifty fifty here. What does it mean?
Some LSI have broken her heart. Such she was forced to think herself as his conflictor.
> Then comes IEE.
and goes somewhere by a side so noone even saw it. except Chae in her Ni dreams and her fans
> Despite her big presence we know very little about her.
yep. her genome is still unknown. so we may say nothing about her
> Is she frustrated middle aged house husband from Nepal? I don't know.
The Faith is only what we have.
this is a great line from that essayWhat are the other drawbacks of type characteristics? I have already said that Gulenko was the first to start tying types to the exterior. I did it very carefully. In the early 1990s, he made a number of reports at the Kiev club, where he showed photographs of people belonging to him, in his opinion, to the same type, and said: "You see, these look the same kind of gas, they have something the same in facial expressions ... ", and tried to draw some conclusions about how facial expressions are related to the type. He also tried to make some observations about how some body movements, features of the structure of the figure are also tied to the type. But Gulenko did not finish his research until the end, he did not grow into a complete theory. Why? Because there is a connection, but the connection is not direct. The structure of the body, nevertheless, it has an indirect relationship to the structure of the nervous system. There is a temptation to conclude that the type is appearance. And then forget about all these psychological aspects, and develop something that is similar to socionics in terms of terminology, but still not socionics. You can make very accurate descriptions of appearance, and thanks to this, even create an opinion about socionics, as a science that typifies by appearance (examples are sites of the Typologist, Sergey Ganin ...).
That's just the most obvious way your Se stands out to me on a daily basis. You may not consciously advocate for using makeup but you certainly seem to find it attractive and promote it by posting tons of pictures and gifs of it. "They caught my attention through mere exposure." -- this only proves the point again. Sure, everybody likes beautiful people but not everyone posts a bazillion pictures of them every day.
It's not always about fantasizing but also relating to or being fascinated with people who are somehow idealized or removed from everyday life. Even @Muddy displays a variation of this by being fascinated with video game characters (more of a Te/Ni version of it).
^ why can't that be Se role m8, like how you said ILE Se role makes them able to stay on top of their responsibilities. @thehotelambush
And why can't liking and posting lots of beautiful pictures be Si seeking? The Si valuers here on the forum do it a lot more than the Se ones overall.
And yeah I still think Chae is IEE.
theres definitely a qualitative difference between the celebrities (whether they be minorities or whatever theyre still always in some form of limelight, its not like random amateurs) chae posts and like the every day people most Si types seem to post. its a very natural v artificial distinction, its as if to say: look these "outsiders" (gay people, women, racial minorities, etc) can be just as glamorous, but its essentially aspiring to be included in a group the Si types select out at the onset, so their posting of images of people are very distinct from my point of view. whatever is causing that, whether it be Fe v Fi or Si v Se or maybe something else entirely, there seems to be a very distinct pattern. to me it resembles a form of Se seeking. Si seeking I identify as trying to find the hidden world, the cozy world etc not the spotlight
That was about ability, not what you find attractive.
It can be, but they would typically be very different kinds of pictures. I think @Minde has posted her photography here before, it's much more subtle and subdued. I'm not sure who you're thinking of.And why can't liking and posting lots of beautiful pictures be Si seeking? The Si valuers here on the forum do it a lot more than the Se ones overall.