Subtype matching or not in duality and activity

[Bertrand]

its not really about strengthening things in terms of covering more territory, if that were the case conflict would be the best for everyone, rather its about accentuating the same channels, i.e.: caring about the same forms of information. also activity would be strengthening different channels, differing subtypes track eachother just shift the entire dyad, whereas same subtype would actually pull them apart

gulenko's theory does complimentariness in terms of covering more territory better, imo but its totally different. honestly the base/creative or contact/inert systems only apply to a subset of people and are kind of general so there's only so much to be done with them (in other words, most people I don't think fit neatly into such a dichotomy)

[Olimpia]

I also used to wonder about the conflicting information on the subtype theory, and I came to the conclusion I mentioned earlier.

When you look at the IEs from a 'valuing' and complimentary perspective, it simply makes the most sense.
The subtype of a person emphasizes which information elements they both value more and the complement they require more.

The Ni subtype makes the individual value that particular IE and its complement Se more. So naturally, the individual will get along better with people who share Ni and Se valuing, especially those who are also either Ni or Se subtype. An LIE-Ni will naturally get along better with Betas > Deltas for that reason. An LIE-Ni also has more 'need' for help regarding Se. (That's also why I used to say that Se can become the "secondary DS" of an LIE-Ni with a strong subtype.) Hence an ESI-Se would be of much more help than an ESI-Fi.

Depending on how strong the subtypes are, ESI-Fi can actually be a worse typological match than SEE-Se for the LIE-Ni. The ESI-Fi individual has weakened Se and boosted Fi and Ni. The same applies to the LIE-Ni individual. In that manner, they cannot help each other as well. The complement isn't perfect. Also, the ESI-2Fi values Fi much more than the LIE-2Ni. The ESI-2Fi will get along better with Deltas, whereas the LIE-2Ni will get along better with Betas. Duals are being drawn into opposite directions. Same applies to SEE-Se vs SEE-Fi. One would think that the SEE-Fi is a better match for LIE-Ni because they have boosted Fi and LIEs are Fi seeking. But the LIE-Ni doesn't even care as much for Fi. The same 'channels' of SEE-Fi and LIE-Ni are weakened and create a loophole of weakness, with the added downside of one person valuing Fi more and the other valuing Ni more, which in a sense is a values mismatch. Furthermore, Ni vs Fi subtype can repel each other (Pi vs Ji emphasis), and that can show up in Duality as well.

So all in all, Se or Ni subtype individuals are better for LIE-Ni. Both them and the LIE-Ni get along better because of the same boosted valuing, and they can help and complement each other much better (in case of LIE-Ni with an Se subtype individual).

[Chillaxe]

I also used to wonder about the conflicting information on the subtype theory, and I came to the conclusion I mentioned earlier.

When you look at the IEs from a 'valuing' and complimentary perspective, it simply makes the most sense.
The subtype of a person emphasizes which information elements they both value more and the complement they require more.

The Ni subtype makes the individual value that particular IE and its complement Se more. So naturally, the individual will get along better with people who share Ni and Se valuing, especially those who are also either Ni or Se subtype. An LIE-Ni will naturally get along better with Betas > Deltas for that reason. An LIE-Ni also has more 'need' for help regarding Se. (That's also why I used to say that Se can become the "secondary DS" of an LIE-Ni with a strong subtype.) Hence an ESI-Se would be of much more help than an ESI-Fi.

Depending on how strong the subtypes are, ESI-Fi can actually be a worse typological match than SEE-Se for the LIE-Ni. The ESI-Fi individual has weakened Se and boosted Fi and Ni. The same applies to the LIE-Ni individual. In that manner, they cannot help each other as well. The complement isn't perfect. Also, the ESI-2Fi values Fi much more than the LIE-2Ni. The ESI-2Fi will get along better with Deltas, whereas the LIE-2Ni will get along better with Betas. Duals are being drawn into opposite directions. Same applies to SEE-Se vs SEE-Fi. One would think that the SEE-Fi is a better match for LIE-Ni because they have boosted Fi and LIEs are Fi seeking. But the LIE-Ni doesn't even care as much for Fi. The same 'channels' of SEE-Fi and LIE-Ni are weakened and create a loophole of weakness, with the added downside of one person valuing Fi more and the other valuing Ni more, which in a sense is a values mismatch. Furthermore, Ni vs Fi subtype can repel each other (Pi vs Ji emphasis), and that can show up in Duality as well.

So all in all, Se or Ni subtype individuals are better for LIE-Ni. Both them and the LIE-Ni get along better because of the same boosted valuing, and they can help and complement each other much better (in case of LIE-Ni with an Se subtype individual).

Okay, question for the master on this one. Why would a stronger function located in the position of "dual seeking" be less valued instead of more emphasized? For example, if I was LIE Ni, and I still like Fi, as that is my DS function, I just place more importance on it and feel more comfortable in matters pertaining to it; why wouldn't it make more sense to be attracted to somebody that spoke the same Fi-Ni language as me (ESI Fi), and not want my weak and vulnerable Se brought out (ESI Se)?

[Adam Strange]

Okay, question for the master on this one. Why would a stronger function located in the position of "dual seeking" be less valued instead of more emphasized? For example, if I was LIE Ni, and I still like Fi, as that is my DS function, I just place more importance on it and feel more comfortable in matters pertaining to it; why wouldn't it make more sense to be attracted to somebody that spoke the same Fi-Ni language as me (ESI Fi), and not want my weak and vulnerable Se brought out (ESI Se)?

Hopefully, @Olimpia will see this and reply, but if she doesn't, you can read her answer in her post that you quoted above. You might initially be attracted to someone who has similarities to you, but you can stay longer with someone who can better help you in your weak areas.

This is the basic reason I'm not jumping on my EII secretary, even though she's sent me an invitation. Long experience has shown me that she and I can't motivate each other. On the other hand, my experience with my Duals (only males at work, so far), has shown me that we definitely not only can motivate each other, but we can easily and naturally cover each other's weaknesses.

[Chillaxe]

Hopefully, @Olimpia will see this and reply, but if she doesn't, you can read her answer in her post that you quoted above. You might initially be attracted to someone who has similarities to you, but you can stay longer with someone who can better help you in your weak areas.

This is the basic reason I'm not jumping on my EII secretary, even though she's sent me an invitation. Long experience has shown me that she and I can't motivate each other. On the other hand, my experience with my Duals (only males at work, so far), has shown me that we definitely not only can motivate each other, but we can easily and naturally cover each other's weaknesses.

Hey Adam. Thanks for the help. I understand what your getting at with the short term vs long term durability and all, and real life experience is a totally valid answer, I guess what I wanted to know is more of a why it works that way answer. For example, the word used in most subtype articles is that the DS is "boosted" which I don't understand why that equals less value instead of more valued. That was how I understood contact inert subtypes to work, they were basically loops created by functions sharing the same dichotomy (inert or contact). The same channel idea (Se Ni) seems to just be assumed with no connection to that original theory. I say asumed, for lack of a better word. If olimpia and yourself say you can see it in real life, then that's as good an answer as anybody can give regarding how the inner minds of people work right now.

[Scarlett]

I also used to wonder about the conflicting information on the subtype theory, and I came to the conclusion I mentioned earlier.

When you look at the IEs from a 'valuing' and complimentary perspective, it simply makes the most sense.
The subtype of a person emphasizes which information elements they both value more and the complement they require more.

The Ni subtype makes the individual value that particular IE and its complement Se more. So naturally, the individual will get along better with people who share Ni and Se valuing, especially those who are also either Ni or Se subtype. An LIE-Ni will naturally get along better with Betas > Deltas for that reason. An LIE-Ni also has more 'need' for help regarding Se. (That's also why I used to say that Se can become the "secondary DS" of an LIE-Ni with a strong subtype.) Hence an ESI-Se would be of much more help than an ESI-Fi.

Depending on how strong the subtypes are, ESI-Fi can actually be a worse typological match than SEE-Se for the LIE-Ni. The ESI-Fi individual has weakened Se and boosted Fi and Ni. The same applies to the LIE-Ni individual. In that manner, they cannot help each other as well. The complement isn't perfect. Also, the ESI-2Fi values Fi much more than the LIE-2Ni. The ESI-2Fi will get along better with Deltas, whereas the LIE-2Ni will get along better with Betas. Duals are being drawn into opposite directions. Same applies to SEE-Se vs SEE-Fi. One would think that the SEE-Fi is a better match for LIE-Ni because they have boosted Fi and LIEs are Fi seeking. But the LIE-Ni doesn't even care as much for Fi. The same 'channels' of SEE-Fi and LIE-Ni are weakened and create a loophole of weakness, with the added downside of one person valuing Fi more and the other valuing Ni more, which in a sense is a values mismatch. Furthermore, Ni vs Fi subtype can repel each other (Pi vs Ji emphasis), and that can show up in Duality as well.

So all in all, Se or Ni subtype individuals are better for LIE-Ni. Both them and the LIE-Ni get along better because of the same boosted valuing, and they can help and complement each other much better (in case of LIE-Ni with an Se subtype individual).

CAN CONFIRM.
Oh My God.

I just cannot with ESI-Fi. Too much Fi. This is so true, LIE-Ni doesn't care much for Fi.
But I like ESI-Se. And I actually realise I'm drawn to Se or Ni subtype such as ESI-Se, LSI-Se, and even EIE-Ni.

Thank you for this!

[ashlesha]

CAN CONFIRM.
Oh My God.

I just cannot with ESI-Fi. Too much Fi. This is so true, LIE-Ni doesn't care much for Fi.
But I like ESI-Se. And I actually realise I'm drawn to Se or Ni subtype such as ESI-Se, LSI-Se, and even EIE-Ni.

Thank you for this!

hey i think my subtype changed from Fi to Se recently so if you notice you can tell me if you like me or not lol