Yes, like everyone else.Originally Posted by Bethany
It's still filtered through LII's functions, just like anyone else has filters, and filters will fit with certain people better than others for various reasons, types being one of them.
Yes, like everyone else.
It's still filtered through LII's functions, just like anyone else has filters, and filters will fit with certain people better than others for various reasons, types being one of them.
@Adam Strange ok that’s interesting that you were opposite subtypes but you say you seemed a bit like mirrors. Is this part of socionics theory? I was thinking that for supervision having opposite subtypes might have the effect of making the relations seem more like a benefit pair..and stronger than same subtype supervision? But it’s just a thought.
Last edited by Bethanyclaire; 03-20-2022 at 11:49 AM.
He also said positive things about all types, if you pay close attention.
edit: this is my 1000th post, hurray.
Last edited by Bethanyclaire; 03-20-2022 at 09:14 AM.
@Armitage you didn’t, don’t worry. Hmm I don’t know about kind, maybe. I find the word a bit tricky. But thanks. You are kind too. If I was too harsh on LIEs in any of my posts, soz. It was a phase I think :s
@Stray Cat I regard his ideas as being founded in science, I see him as a scientist. (His profession was in engineering). But I do question what I’ve learnt from him. It’s not a bad thing for you to remind me that I can trust my own observations. I do need a push to get out of my comfort zone sometimes to learn new things. But if I bump into any fancy professors any time soon, it’s Rebel’s articles I’ll be showing themViva la revolucion
Last edited by Bethanyclaire; 04-02-2022 at 09:15 AM.
Oh I thought of a dual couple I know who have opposite subtypes. Male ILE-ti and female SEI-si. They met at uni. He is now a successful dj and she has her own business.
I was thinking that Jay Z and Beyoncé could be as well. (ESI-fi and LIE-ni).
Last edited by Bethanyclaire; 03-20-2022 at 09:20 AM.
Technical engineers are hardly social scientists, I would say. Throughout my studies I have only met one social scientist cum data engineer and that's my supervisor. When I myself showed up at the minor in Computer Science and Engineering at the Technical University of Delft many questioned what a psychology student does here, because it's rare. The inverse also showed to be rare, as very few computer science students had social skills, just like the stereotypes predicted. I initially believed all these stereotypes to be exaggerated, but reality proved sometimes worse than the stereotypes even. There were students who not only would never get a date, they did not even have the desire to. Their computer was enough of a waifu for them, all day every day they spent behind it, programming for their study, gaming in their free time, and repairing them for their side job. I greatly enjoy the puzzling I do for coding, but I'm too social for such a lifestyle.
This is the kind of information that we're looking for!
@Armitage but he did seem to have a gift for understanding people. Sorry about my basic replies. I’m tired/lazy!!!Yes it’s interesting to think about the subtypes. I feel like I’m on an endless journey to imagine all the possible alternative romantic scenarios I could end up in, so I can imagine something possibly better than the attraction I experienced towards the SEI guy I used to like. The possibility keeps me going! Lol. I keep thinking I’m over it and the hurt feeling comes back. Maybe it will always pop up every now and again. Big then it goes and you feel sweet relief.
Last edited by Bethanyclaire; 03-20-2022 at 06:36 PM.
@Bethany, I think this feeling is normal, I myself am feeling it right now. This week my French date returned. He popped up out of nowhere, came close, and left as fast as that he came. Once again he pressured me repeatedly to commit to his way of doing things. This time I had consciously decided to go along with what he demanded and offer only limited resistance to anything not too outrageous. He came, he took, he left. I had predicted that he would return this month. I can foresee most of his actions and I am not surprised that he left the moment he got what he wanted. I expect him to return again when he can use me, but that time it will be in vain. Two times is a pattern, it shows that he did not change over the past half year, while I did. He shows no remorse for the hurt he caused me and just takes, takes, takes without any sign of gratitude. My supervisor put it well, this guy has a dangerous sense of entitlement.
Like everyone else my supervisor tried to warn me, but I explained to my supervisor that giving in to my French date is a mistake that I had to make, in order to get over him. Now I have. I already knew that he mistreated me and behaved like a jerk, but now I've finally felt it without the rose coloured glasses on. I've read through our chat of the past week and it's all about him and what he wants, whenever I mentioned how I was doing I got barely any reply. At most he would ask me how I was feeling to start a conversation about what he wanted. He's a toxic guy and I wonder if he treats everyone like this or just those who he deems weak and picks as his next victim to exploit.
At least I can now let go, because the fault was none of my own. I can finally forgive myself.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hc-itjRv_lk
Last edited by Armitage; 03-20-2022 at 10:24 PM.
Does this really make a difference?
Subtypes absolutely make a difference.
It's already enough that you have to find and dual now you have to try and align the stars by matching subtypes, I don't know how a subtype could make much of a difference if the dimensions remain the same, someone in 4D can account for someone's 1D, how does a subtype affect that?
With differing subtypes the dimensions are not the same.
Is it like .5 more or .5 less?
The less of a subtype you are the less it matters. Maybe there is some truth that different subtypes often end up with differing world views/divergent interests/communication styles. But ultimately this is just stereotyping. I think there is some truth in saying opposite subtypes have a stronger glue between them. I’m working with a strong ti subtype SLE atm, he is the nicest SLE you could ever meet. Maybe he’s a bit too ti-ish. It’s completely platonic but actually I feel very comfortable around him. It’s quietly comfortable but it’s apparent we have a deep respect for each other without even talking much. I’m convinced the reason I fell so badly for an SEI-fe is partially because he is fe subtype. Most average SEIs are lovely but ignorable to me, but when the fe is obvious to me, it’s like they’re not an SEI..but a more compatible type. Also my SEE brother is the only creative subtype in the family and has often felt like the ‘black sheep’. He is the person I least got on with, however my love for him is fierce. I think perhaps it differs depending on the particular ITR which subtype one might prefer, also non type related stuff is always more important but guess that goes without saying.
So much of socionics writing is based on stereotypes because it’s safer to write about stereotypes as stereotypes do exist. Describing ITR or personalities is attempting the impossible so it was necessary at first to write about stereotypes in order to convince people they existed.
edit: I am a ni subtype but I don’t know how much percentage wise. I think I always had a ni subtype but it became more pronounced as I got older (and experienced mental health issues). What made me ni subtype? Well, my father is a strong SLI-si subtype. Both my parents are si types so I guess I felt a need to withdraw a bit from them sometimes, perhaps feeling overwhelmed by the focus on si stuff. These days I like the si stuff, but as a young person 16-mid twenties, or even younger than that, I would have benefited from
the help of someone who could read me better, and realise I needed help with si stuff. And be nice about it, not unsupportive/snooty about it..in an ESE supervisee/ SLI super-ego sort of way lol. Both my parents received limited education so if we factor that into it, perhaps their polr was not developed enough in this sense, making it harder to provide what I needed. Sharing for discussion/therapeutic purposes.
I think my subtype manifests in the following way- I am rather quiet with limited vocabulary and also I have quite low motivation to get stuff done that is practical. I should 100% not live alone, but I do and have for a long time. I need to be around other people to feel the significance of my own physical existence lol.
Last edited by Bethanyclaire; 04-04-2022 at 03:28 PM.
I’ve been thinking about an ILI-te I know. When we first met I knew we had a connection, but I also thought he would really like my sis if he met her..this was before I knew about socionics. My sis is SEE-se. On average I do get on better with ILI-nis but this one ILI-te stands out. The connection we had felt almost dual like. I just knew we had the potential to build a strong bond. I didn’t really want to date at the time, and in the end my sis did end up meeting him and they had an on-off thing for a while.
I’m going on gut feeling here, but this strong connection with the ILI-te as well as my other enriching experiences with SEI-fes, makes me think that kindred and lookalike relations can be pretty good if there is really good natural chemistry. I have tentatively said before that my experience with the SEI-fe felt more like semi-duality descriptions. It does make me wonder what is more important in making a relationship last- natural chemistry or ITR. I think if you want the relationship to last a life time good ITR is a safer bet. But if you want passion for 10/15 years..well maybe finding someone with shared interests/a strong connection and not caring too much about ITR is ok. I do wonder if passion/ a strong feeling of connection is something that can keep a relationship going a long time. And with this passion, perhaps comes some complementariness too, where you can help each other quite a bit. Semi-duals and illusionary may be easier to communicate with than kindred and lookalike and that can make them last longer, maybe a life time. But I think it’s slightly harder to find these types, or get comfortable with them so it might be less likely to happen. There’s a part of me that just wants to go clubbing every weekend until I find a likeminded raver who just feels passion for me you know? Instead of these boring dating apps, with boring people lol. But I’m not young, so I have up be careful and keep an open mind. My IEE friend told me do both lol.
edit: how many good SEEs/ILEs/ILIs/SEIs have I come across in life? It’s fairly even I suppose. I’ll list them later.
Last edited by Bethanyclaire; 04-06-2022 at 04:56 PM.
My ILI-Te shrink told me that he had a fellow shrink interested in him. We've known each other long enough that we are friends in addition to having a professional relationship.
He showed me her picture, and she VI'd as an IEI. He told me that she was really after him, and he really liked her.
I told him that she was super-attractive and that they could understand each other through intuition, but there might be problems in the future.
He went with a different woman whom he met on a retreat. She might have been LSI, but that didn't last. My shrink has some serious bonding problems.
haha oh dear.. ILIs have certainly shown interest in me before. I had a big crush on an ILI-ni but I think we’ll only ever be friends. There’s something oddly similar about us, we have some really nice dreamy chats once in a while. We have similar names (same initials, both with same initial for first and last name), both have several siblings. Similar ethnic background. When I first met him I thought he was so intriguing haha. In a similar way to the SEI-fe I liked. They both have this gentle way of moving. Which I think my mum has a bit I don’t know? My mum is a pretty ESE.
I liked him for a while but maybe we really wouldn’t have worked!
@Lord Pixel I don’t think subtype matters too much. I do feel a bit more ‘attached’ to opposite subtypes though. (If there is a natural bond in the first place). It’s like there is an invisible force field between you both lol. I’m still new to subtypes and need to type more people but there are def people of opposite subtypes I clash with. Also, forgive my lack of technical socionics insight, I mostly work with impressions, instinct and observations. Socionics is something I gotta take time with.
It seems like the subtype can give the type a different ‘flavour’. I associate creative subtypes with a euphoric feeling/feelings of admiration. Base subtypes feel more mysterious and solid. Something like that lol.
My two good friends are IEE-ne and IEE-fi. I party with the IEE-ne and we are part of a group of friends/family. I talk with my IEE-fi colleague on the phone a lot about my personal life. I trust them both. They both help me in different ways and I can picture them both being in my life a long time.
Last edited by Bethanyclaire; 04-06-2022 at 10:22 AM.
@Bethany, your IEE friend is right that you should do both, because that doubles your dating prospects, if not through dating applications, then through your hobbies, or vice versa.
Your interest in the ILI-Te might have been a fascination to tip your toes in Te? ILIs stand closer to you than us LIEs do, and he might have been a secure mentor to you to teach you how Te thinking works.
yep te can be fascinating to me. But I think something about his te and my fe was the same. Or maybe our si! Or ni. I think some people don’t like lookalikes or kindred as they can feel too similar or familiar too you, like a sibling, or best friend. But if there is enough passion maybe it doesn’t matter..or it’s something that comes and goes. I agree kindred is a better match than supervision. But supervision doesn’t have that sibling feel, so can potentially be quite alluring at first. Maybe lookalike/ kindred need to have intense passion/connection to get started and mirror/supervision needs something else..I think generally lookalike/kindred can last longer, most people would agree I guess. Some people might think mirrors are better than kindred. You could be good friends with a supervisee/supervisor perhaps but it might be hard to make a life together?
I think kindred/lookalike is better because of the shared p temperament. There is just less likely to be disagreement when you’re both p or both j, less chance for resentments to build up, compromises to feel unfair. But there will be some supervision couples who are better than some kindred…I suppose. Though even a good supervision would be more likely to grow apart?
Uh sometimes I think the reason I’m a romantic IEI-ni type is because I’m a first born child of supervision parents, the ITR known for being rocky. And perhaps this means I’m more likely to fall for an SEI-fe…another overtly romantic type. Perhaps for the ITR that are less strong in terms of compatible cognition..there needs to be more passion to keep them going. I suspect the type of passion is different with different ITR but could be wrong. Can passion be measured lol.
Last edited by Bethanyclaire; 04-06-2022 at 01:52 PM.
Oh also if I saw the ILI-te I mentioned on a dating app..I probably wouldn’t think he was attractive. In real life I do. Chemistry can make a big difference.
Royal dual couples..
Harry and Megan: SLI-si and IEE-fi.
Wills and Kate: LIE-te?? and ESI-fi
William LSE-Si
Kate EII-Fi
really…I want them to be same subtypes haha.
same but like... she Fi's around too much!
And he makes these funny faces, similar to my LSE si colleague haha
I think it’s their differences that draw and keep opposite subtypes together. (If they can ever come together in the first place). For duals anyway.
also it just kinda makes sense in a way..SLE-ti are good at the stuff I’m bad at. I have to really try hard to care about the state of the world, and not only care about ‘being nice’, and people’s mental
welfare. This is partly due to having depression but it’s also just tiring trying to keep up with everything. SLE-ti seem to easily philosophise about current affairs and deeper moral questions. I’m not saying I should be with an SLE-ti (in a hypothetical world where we all meet duals) but maybe if I was healthier. Atm I’d probably benefit more from an SLE-se.
Last edited by Bethanyclaire; 04-07-2022 at 06:56 PM.
I think as people get older they tend to balance out a bit and their subtype (if they have one) becomes less prominent. At least less prominent compared to a young person with the same subtype..for example it took me ages to figure out my parents' subtypes, even though I know them pretty well as people. My dad is a strong SLI-si subtype and my mum is a normal ESE-si subtype. But for a while I thought my mum was ESE-fe..She is just slightly more balanced than my dad. But my dad still has traits that sound like the stereotype of an SLI-te.
So I think over a life time we try to balance out, even if it's not on a deep level. We will begin to resemble the other subtype, even if just in a subtle way.
I feel superrrrr lucky to have semi-dual siblings of both subtypes. My SEE-se sis is someone I have a lot of fun adventures with and deep chats and my SEE-fi brother is super loving and very family oriented, which I find quite grounding- reminds me of what is important. But I really like the thought of seeing them balance out more over time- my sister becoming more grounded and my brother becoming more..at ease..
The good thing about SLE-ti is that they remind you of SEI-fe but the bad thing is that they remind you of LSE-si. However I did nearly go out with an SLE-se who quite resembled SEI-fe so maybe it doesn’t make much diff.
Hum
I don’t know if I believe in subtype theory
I think type is also about cultural and upbringing so for example if one LSE is from an abused family they maybe mistrustful and suspicious of people while another LSE who is from a loving home would be more open to love and relationship. While one LSE may have ADD and not find motivation or do a lot another may be more even energy wise. Hobbies will also be different depending on economy and availability of these hobbies like one may only have access to football while another all types of sports. One LSE May be ocd and clean freak another maybe messy.
These are not type related issues. So listen to the information metabolism and the type of information that each type conveys.
This
https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...abolism-models
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Dual type(as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
Inert- seems to ponder stuff more, contact- seems to turn things over in the mind more. Sometimes you can see it in the eyes. It can be an interesting energy to observe, a gear moving backwards or forwards. Sometimes it feels like a type of energy coming off their body..SLE-se i mentioned probs didn’t have a strong subtype. But yeah environmental influences are important. Like I think I am drawn to people who seem si-like, coz I grew up sound si. But it’s a particular type of si..None of my friends understand typology so I can’t ask how I come across
lol. Sometimes I think my mum seems IEE like and her mum was IEE.
Last edited by Bethanyclaire; 03-04-2023 at 09:33 PM.
Uh this thread lol
Although I’m trying to step away from typology (bc the idea that the dual is the only relation I can have what I want with.. “become one” or whatever my ultimate goal is… getting closer and closer until it is satisfied - I find the idea a little stifling, suffocating now). I also don’t think all duals are necessarily compatible relative to whatever situational factors influencing both your personalities…
I’m bringing all this up to generally agree there are intratype differences and that can make a dual more or less appealing to me. As of now I have found one I click with organically. Some might even be a little “too much” which might put me off. As for subtypes compatibility idk
How is your relation with them developing? In a good direction?
Unfortunately it is not "developing" currently but for a good reason, and it's not because we don't get along, overall.
Yeah he was rude to me and then called me out on being rude even though he was rude to me first. I don't get his logic sometimes. What I do observe is snobbery, and that can be something it takes a while to grow out of. I also observe that he is trying to be polite and decent..but I don't know.. snobbery doesn't generally go hand in hand with decency in my experience. I work with some young people who are more privileged than I and it often takes a while for them to see me as their equal, but they often learn, and it's nice once that barrier is broken down, for both people.
Also, I had deleted that post..wasn't sure if it made sense.
well, that's always a nice thing to hear..haha
That's wrong. I never said you were rude. You called me "dopey" and I asked for proof if it. You were offended by my message so my guess is that "dopey" was just your way of shaming me for calling you on the stupidity in your original message. Not saying you're stupid but the context of the original message was in my opinion
Polite, decent and snobbery are interesting words to describe me when I've never even claimed that I was nice. It's cool. Chocalatte is pretty cool in my book. If you're the nicest person ever, maybe you are.
I haven't actually. I always thought that Fi ethics and Fe feelings come paired, just like Ni and Ne do within LIEs. So it wouldn't as much be substitution, as switching between what you have already.
I believe upbringing has failed when people believe themselves better than others merely because they inherit more. They didn't work for a thing they have, so they never proved themselves. The kid from a poor family earns more respect from me when she passes the entrance exam and attains 7s in university, while doing a side-job to pay her tuition, than the spoiled brat whose parents paid for a new university library wing to let him in and who gets straight 9s and 10s, thanks to all the extra tutoring his parents pay for him. Sadly we live in a society that cares little for honest, hard work, and is instead only interested in shortcuts to wealth, fame, and status. It's sickening.
If Climate Change will not collapse civilization, then our barbarization will. My Sister works in childcare and she frequently has to care for many, many children alone. The parents of these kids dump them at daycare, so they themselves can work extra hours with the goal to buy their third BMW. In the weekends these parents then want to make up for the guilt they experience for neglecting their children and at those moments want to be "fun parents". They desire to buy off their guilt and don't want crying kids in the sparse free hours they have, so they give their children everything, everything they want. It's a surefire way to raise the most spoiled and nastiest brats imaginable.
Whenever the teachers try to correct the misbehaviours of such brats they can count on those very "fun parents" to suddenly stand at the school's gates to talk with the principal about how the teacher mistreats their "little angel". I know, because I come from a teacher's family and they all report the children's behaviour to be rapidly deteriorating over the past decades. That's what happens if you lack any real life social interaction with peers and your parents neglect you all week long. It's why there are so many school shootings in the States, not because of videogames, but due to social ostracism combined with easily purchasable guns.
The grandma of my cousin once mentioned her shock that whenever the child of my cousin cries, my cousin just hands her the tablet to make her go quiet. That's not raising a child, that's making it a brain dead anti-social degenerate! This whole COVID generation is going to turn out into social dejects this way. Instead of ameliorating the damage done to their social skills during the repeated lockdowns, the "fun parents" only reinforce their lack of social skills by stimulating them more and more with digital devices. Give it a couple decades and society only consists of obese neckbeards plugged into VR, because their petty existence is too deplorable for them to face. If anyone still has to watch the movie Surrogates, I heavily recommend it!
Last edited by Armitage; 03-15-2022 at 02:48 PM.
I would imagine that raising a lot of selfish, asocial kids would decrease the birth rate, since these kids have no experience with long-term commitment and few examples of healthy, committed relationships between two people.
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