Instead of wrecking this thread with your usual fallacious complaints about fallacious arguments, please make visitor comments on my user page and you can continue losing at ping-pong there.Originally Posted by The Ineffable
Instead of wrecking this thread with your usual fallacious complaints about fallacious arguments, please make visitor comments on my user page and you can continue losing at ping-pong there.
Going by their music alone and knowing just a little bit about their life:
Bach - seems very alpha to me. I'd type him as ILE.
Vivaldi - EII.
Chopin - IEI or EIE.
Beethoven - ILI.
Borodin - I can see EII/IEE.
Mozart - ILE.
I know he was a Romantic composer, and the period was the pinnacle of Se and Fe, but Mussorgsky as an ILI? That seems strange to me.
Camille Saint-Saëns - SEI?
Also, on the point of what composer I sound like in my head, it'd be the Mushishi soundtrack or SayCeT.
Fi + Ne.
Could just be my brain being contaminated by all the bleep bloop I grew up on
Know I'm mistyped?
Why I amnow.
Why I was, once.
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Are you sure you're looking at the same composers I am? Please explain yourself.
You presumptuous brat, I won't explain myself. The Well Tempered Clavier to me is a very Ti thing to do, if there was such a thing.
Are you sure you're looking at the same composers I am? Please explain yourself.
What, a common theory cycle? There is no Ti in that, or especially Ne: it's all the same foundation, a common sense of efficiency in writing. Maybe it doesn't appeal to your Ne, but it's Ni and Te that repeat solidly formed techniques. Can't you read a description of the alpha quadra first before coming to that conclusion. Bach is one of the most Fe devoid composers I've heard, and not an inventor but an obvious reorganizer of common patterns/techniques, and here's some musical education for you: compare to a Ti method of structurizing, which so obviously doesn't reform patterns to complement a certain style, but redevelops the root of the composition's structure each time, and the diversity of Fe-valuing in this piece of music (which can equally be summarized in terms of solid foundations, ie. common emotions forced): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90MuPqYtV_k#t=3m5s
Tell me any Alpha NT on that list who can't do close to that.
Well tempered clavier, hah. Do you really expect an ILE genius to be so boring? At least Mussorgsky, a likely ILI, was highly influenced by the romantic era, you can still tell how traditional to his adopted knowledge he's trying to "get right" without having the proper education. Alpha for both of them is out of the question. Mussorgsky to a Ti valuer after a while is like listening to a pendulum.
Last edited by Neverend; 06-15-2011 at 04:57 AM.
Mozart is a XXTj type...
INTj or ENTj sounds good
Dual type(as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
LSI: “I still can’t figure out Pinterest.”
Me: “It’s just, like, idea boards.”
LSI: “I don’t have ideas.”
Oh god... you're like those people who write snobby comments on youtube classical music videos, talking as if they know everything. Also, it's obvious that your typing of Bach as non-alpha is biased. You find his music boring and don't want to be associated. Ok, you mention inefficiency. Accepting the challenge of writing good music in every key, doesn't seem like efficiency, considering how tedious it is to do so and you can have a more popular (and well sold) piece by using one of the standard keys. You also compare Bach, who is a Baroque composer, to composers from the romantic period to support your claim that he doesn't show Fe... How can you even do that? Obviously music from the romantic period has more emotional depth. And even saying that Bach's music doesn't have an emotional element to it is whack. For the Baroque period, a lot of his music is moving. Tell me a baroque composer/piece then that shows the Fe and Ti you are talking about.
I'm not sure what you're trying to prove, just deny typings because of baroque? But as we all know Bach is all technical like an efficient machine, curious how you believe he's Fe valuing if there's no proof of it, but you're simultaneously confusing him for Ti when, like I said, he shows no true structural invention nor is known for it, just a mastery of pattern implementation. Tedious composition, I'd certainly expect not for an alpha NT, but Bach likes to repeat his most effective structures and keep it simple. I'm not sure if you're familiar with the process of composing, but we spend hours trying to master one small strand or sequence of music with the intention that it reflects all our favorite aspects of listening, and it's an enjoyable process knowing that you can slow down time and make what you want of it. You can compare him to baroque composers who don't seem Fe-devoid, such as Handel or Vivaldi, there's obviously a stronger presence of acknowledgment for the affects of Fe they've had in their listening. What do you expect an ILIs music to sound like if its not "Ti," more like Mussorgsky? There is not much difference between the two in pattern implementation, you just have a different style and era, and emotional depth doesn't necessarily have to do with Fe, but I'll have to go into that with another example. I don't think its fair to say Bach's music doesn't have some kind of emotional or sentimental undertones to it for the sake that it's beautiful-sounding, and structurally sound music that flows like a wave of objective processing, a similar value to Mozart's Te, more dynamic and coherent than alpha NT music, there are no intentions of fresh layers or leaps. I'd expect more Ne and Ti from any Alpha NT, not seeing it whatsoever. I know of more alpha sounding music from earlier periods off the top of my head, from what I know it's not all that popular, amazing or easy to listen to.
Last edited by Neverend; 06-20-2011 at 10:25 AM.
That's an excellent recording of the Rachmaninoff, and a very Ti-oriented performance. I guess from the performance, I can hear LII, but when other people play his music, then I hear something completely different.What, a common theory cycle? There is no Ti in that, or especially Ne: it's all the same foundation, a common sense of efficiency in writing. Maybe it doesn't appeal to your Ne, but it's Ni and Te that repeat solidly formed techniques. Can't you read a description of the alpha quadra first before coming to that conclusion. Bach is one of the most Fe devoid composers I've heard, and not an inventor but an obvious reorganizer of common patterns/techniques, and here's some musical education for you: compare to a Ti method of structurizing, which so obviously doesn't reform patterns to complement a certain style, but redevelops the root of the composition's structure each time, and the diversity of Fe-valuing in this piece of music (which can equally be summarized in terms of solid foundations, ie. common emotions forced): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90MuPqYtV_k#t=3m5s
Tell me any Alpha NT on that list who can't do close to that.
Well tempered clavier, hah. Do you really expect an ILE genius to be so boring? At least Mussorgsky, a likely ILI, was highly influenced by the romantic era, you can still tell how traditional to his adopted knowledge he's trying to "get right" without having the proper education. Alpha for both of them is out of the question. Mussorgsky to a Ti valuer after a while is like listening to a pendulum.
Bach can get very emotional, but as with any composer, whether it's Fe- or Fi- emotionality is always the question. His emotional aspect tends to be more apparent in his religious works, like this one:
(That performance is maybe a bit on the slow side, but it still gives the idea.)
What type do you think Bach is....ILI?
I've always thought of Mussorgsky as base-Ni, but I was thinking more IEI.
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