If it's creating a mood then there's more to it and it's purpose than 'Ti'. I don't understand what you mean.Originally Posted by Salawa
If it's creating a mood then there's more to it and it's purpose than 'Ti'. I don't understand what you mean.
The purpose matters. The effect can also matter. We seem to be going round in circles here. I believe we've had (as did Logos with you) a coversation in regards to music recently. However it seems to be important to you, as you've typed a lot out here, so I'm not looking to say your all wrong. I think it would help you tho if you were able to expand your understanding of it more so, rather than just sticking to the (limited?) conclusions you appear to reach.
Have you posted your overall thoughts on this somewhere? If you haven't, I think it would be a good idea.
And why do you think I would perhaps believe otherwise?
No. Your thinking is far too muddled, and thats maybe what i'm picking up on when your trying to apply aspects to music..The creative function is the function that type is most likely to use in aid of the base function, but individuals of all types can be observed using pretty much any function in aid of the leading function, but it does not change the fact that they are using some other function.
Sometimes a function is not used in connection with the base function. Sometimes they are used independently. The base function is the dominant one of course, but we can, for short periods, switch others on, and that one off, also.
The most obvious example is temporarity engaging the role function in place of the dominant function..they cannot both be switched on at the same time. For you to say all the functions in the model always exist to support dominant is therefore incorrect.
Do you agree?
But you don't know what was going on in the composers head to know if he or she was using Ti or Fe, so how the music was created is difficult to judge.Ti is not any less Ti when used for Fe goals. There are many compositional devices that can be used to create a "mood" or whatever, but these compositional devices are not the mood itself!
As it stands the importance to the listener, composer and performer of the effect can't be understated.
You should try writing a draft, then re-draft it, you might be suprised at how much you've managed to say and it'll probably be pretty much complete by draft no.3..that's if you want to, of course!My overall thoughts are too internal to write down in full, unfortunately.
My attempt at analysing the Rach piece.... Throughout the piece, even in the middle section, there is a very outward focus on order. I think this would normally suggest Te, but given that the intention is to give the piece a military feel this probably points to Te being used to express Se - maybe even Fe, given that it was intended to stir up feelings of nationalism. I think that the plaintive melody in the middle section shows Fi and not Fe. It has a melancholic, nostalgic feel to it which IMO points towards Fi. The emotion seems like it lacks full expression /has a repressed feeling to it. You feel like you're privy to another's internal emotions and reflections rather than the emotion being communicated directly to you or having it wash over you like a wave. That is what I see as the difference btwn Fe and Fi in music.
"Language is the Rubicon that divides man from beast."
Home, Sweet Home is probably a Fi piece...(as shown in the first two minutes of this clip but you'll have to click it to watch it, as it won't allow embedding).
John Cage - 4'33"
?
"How could we forget those ancient myths that stand at the beginning of all races, the myths about dragons that at the last moment are transformed into princesses? Perhaps all the dragons in our lives are princesses who are only waiting to see us act, just once, with beauty and courage. Perhaps everything that frightens us is, in its deepest essence, something helpless that wants our love."
-- Rainer Maria Rilke, Letters to a Young Poet
Ti gone mental I think
"Language is the Rubicon that divides man from beast."
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