Sx/Sp and Sp/Sx- Politics, social issues etc
Just getting curious here- Social last types, what are your political or social justice opinions, and how involved are you in politics, if at all?
Are you completely apolitical and disinterested, or are you more involved than the stereotypes would have us believe?
I used to be very political when I was younger, but then somewhere down the line, I became very apolitical. If I had to say what broke the camel's back for me it was the 2000 election.
The whole controversy with the electronic machines and it coming down to a recount and a supreme court decision left a bad taste in my mouth. Then the 2004 election between two skull and bones members (Bush and Kerry) was kind of the nail in the coffin for me.
Since then, I've viewed political elections as mere sideshows that will make little difference in how countries and the world is run. The debaucle of the 2016 election was a good example of how much of a sideshow elections really are in the end.
People complain about Trump all the time, but in the end of the day he is just a symptom of a corrupt political system, not the cause. Replacing him with someone else in a future election is not going to solve the core problems of society, it will only result in changes to minor issues.
Lobbying has pervaded and corrupted politics to the point where corporations and wealthy individuals with their deep pockets will have more say in politics and government than the public will ever have.
“We cannot change the cards we are dealt, just how we play the hand.” Randy Pausch
Ne-IEE
6w7 sp/sx
6w7-9w1-4w5
Once in a while I might read something or respond to something, but I've other things I'd rather be reading about, talking about, or doing.Originally Posted by JC1
While "Progressive" is the closest label (that I know of) that might describe my stances, I don't actually DO anything, belong to any Progressive groups, keep up on what's going on, etc. I'm 45yo and the 2016 election was the only time I got involved enough to go vote and maybe talk about Bernie Sanders a few times. On facebook I share/like some memes, and sometimes I share/like more than I wish I had, lol. Sometimes I share some just to piss off my libertarian e837 SLE older brother.
My husband keeps up on what's going on (though not obsessively), and he'll make comments about 'recent events' and may eventually tell me a summary of what he's referring to. And I used to watch some of those satire shows that would touch on politics.
My recent argument in another thread was political in topic, but 75% of the time I ignore the political topics on this forum. The only reason I went on that thread in the first place was because it was in 'socionics general' and was titled to be about Delta/Beta. (It did, however, help me figure out my stance on affirmative action policies. I'm now no longer ambivalent about them, but am glad they were implemented 50 years ago.) And I suppose this thread.
When it comes to social issues, I've got a few pet peeves. Primarily about separation of Church and State, "a vote for x is a vote for y" bullshit, getting money out of politics, and things related to disabilities, social security, and medical. Oh, and what got me into politics in 2016 was my anger about how my 21yo daughter works a full time job at minimum wage, but still requires a co-signer to get one of the cheapest 1 bedroom apartments in town. I didn't have a problem getting cheapass apartments when I was her age, the price disparity has gotten out of proportion! That and the church/state thing are my biggest peeves.
That about covers it.
IEE 649 sx/sp cp
Why is the separation of Church and State a problem? I'm not from the U.S. but I've heard they are still pretty religious out there. Wouldn't that be the progressive move, according to your "progressive" politics to have them separated?
Except for impaired empathy, an ordinary guy who's looking for down-to-earth, loving, loyal friends and a geeky, warm, voluptuous girlfriend!
I WANT separation of Church and State, and get annoyed when people want to push their own religion onto others, particularly through political means.
IEE 649 sx/sp cp
hi Ann
-
Dual type(as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
Hi Maritsa.
(I'm not really back. I had just checked in to see if there were any private messages and/or notifications to catch up on. I hope all is well for ya'll.)
IEE 649 sx/sp cp
pet peeve = upsetting personal issue with sthing
I thought you meant you take issue with the separation of the two. Anyways, reading the rest made me think why on earth was America labeled a "1st world country?" Over here we also had a rise in the flat rental prices, something about people not trusting the banks with their money, they'd rather convert it into mortgage. Not sure what "co-signers" are, though.
Problem with Church is, humans procreate, reproduce way faster than our ability to spread, knowledge, culture, enlightenment, civility. There are and perhaps always will, more than enough uneducated masses willing to buy in whatever post-truth cult of the time. And Typology is not an exception. Most people here are the consumers of this cyberpunk religion. Because the thing with religion is... that it's always been the dominant paradigm of a certain place and a time. Religion has never been called as such, people were practicing it without being aware of other, possibly wider paradigms. And all religions are inherently typologies, indexing the exterior phenomena according to their political agenda. And all their followers are only the exploiters of the taxonomies (role players), the labels of their religion (masquerade), each twisting their chosen one (e.g. "EII") to mask their own hypocrisy. Each culture, system of significations is a religion.
Lately, I've found two Sx women on youtube, one is an infamous ex-actress, the other a former typology enthusiast. Both have children as has the first Sx/Sp woman I met IRL. If you associate w/ the label "progressive," then why do you have children?
Except for impaired empathy, an ordinary guy who's looking for down-to-earth, loving, loyal friends and a geeky, warm, voluptuous girlfriend!
A co-signer is someone who has sufficient income/resources to qualify to pay for not only their own place, but also the new place to be rented. This means that if the primary renter doesn't have enough income to make the rent, then the owner can go after the co-signer to pay it. An example, my daughter doesn't make enough money to qualify for the cheapest rental here, even though she works full time at minimum wage. So my husband has had to co-sign her rental agreement; which means that if my daughter can't make the payments, or damages the property, the owner can force my husband to cover the costs.
1) Pregnancy can happen whether you want it to or not.If you associate w/ the label "progressive," then why do you have children?
2) I didn't know I was pregnant until 5 months along, so it was too late to abort.
3) I've only ever had the one child.
4) And finally, the decision to have or not have children is far more complex than one's political associations.
My brother (SX/SP) pretty much ignores world news and anything that goes beyond his closest interactions, the only activism he'd ever join would be abolishing schools because they prevent him from finding comfort at home + playing with his 2-3 friends, and very intense sessions of gaming. It ties into him being a sensing type a lot. His enneatype is 8
Nope, not interested in politics. Don't vote. Don't watch the news. It's just not important to me.
C-EII-INFj 4w3 Sx/sp 479
Jordan Peterson is a dude who is viewed as a jackass by the left but he occasionally gives good advice, heh ^_^ .
As stated in Soviet Russia, you don't care about politic, politic care about you.
Whether or not this is intended as a joke, it makes a spectacularly good point. SP/SX or SX/SP types ought to care about politics because it has the potential to radically transform their world -- they can't ignore it anymore than they can ignore diabetes. Power is just another resource after all, and politics is the art of how power can be provisioned systematically.
more like unable to ignore it anymore than we can ignore hunger...
so you're the miraculous subtype of So blind spot (given the opinion of others): the one that... doesn't have any blind spot overfocus... yea, I guess diabetes is a possibility more distant than hunger.I have zero motivation to sublimate myself into a greater cause; to engage in any kind of activism; or to follow the humdrum business of shifting rivalries and alliances. None. Zero.
Except for impaired empathy, an ordinary guy who's looking for down-to-earth, loving, loyal friends and a geeky, warm, voluptuous girlfriend!
What is blind spot overfocus and what does hunger have to do with it?
https://www.personalitycafe.com/enneagram-personality-theory-forum/1255538-blind-spot-over-focus-thoughts-experiences.html
hunger's just a metaphor to how urgent one feels the need to care for their blind spot
But perhaps it's exactly something as strong as demonization that is needed sometimes to attract attention on an issue. Of course, it's not all up to extroverts. They are being lifted up by the masses. There's a complicity that is taking place, between these more exhibitionistic social types and the more servant, self-deprecating social types. The latter need these "visionary leaders" to use them as pretext/green light for collective projects and to delegate responsibility on when the project doesn't work out because of internal corruption.
Except for impaired empathy, an ordinary guy who's looking for down-to-earth, loving, loyal friends and a geeky, warm, voluptuous girlfriend!
I have a passing interest in politics, basically just enough to see through the bullshit for what it is. Politicians are delusional and power hungry individuals that try to convince you that their lies are the best ones. I probably have a more extreme opinion on criminal justice than the most seeing how I want to bring back beheading and hanging for some crimes (terrorism to name one). I'm more uninterested in social justice I think it's just a bunch of whiny people in a he said she said situation most of the time. What does bother me is when people in place of authority misuse that authority in some way that I consider rude or violating, this can cause me to act in some unforseen way as a counterpart, evening the scales once again.
I just can't get myself into politics no matter how many times I have tried.
Well, dunno about so last. I have a sense of social justice however I think politics won't help you. It is basically professionally parasitical life wannabe important lifestyle that lives in its own ecosystem and sometimes crosses boundaries with others.
MOTTO: NEVER TRUST IN REALITY
Winning is for losers
Sincerely yours,
idiosyncratic type
Life is a joke but do you have a life?
Joinif you dare https://matrix.to/#/#The16Types:matrix.org
The Enneagram is a pretty hard-to-decipher beast because there are so many different opinions wrt. what the types mean, but I'm mostly sure that I'm SP/SX, given the opinions that seem credible. I have zero motivation to sublimate myself into a greater cause; to engage in any kind of activism; or to follow the humdrum business of shifting rivalries and alliances. None. Zero.
Even highschool politics was a challenge: I assumed people only conformed publicly, because they felt intimidated or intellectually unprepared to challenge "common wisdom;" I didn't realize that people would willingly change their deepest feelings to feel validated. It never even occurred to me that social pecking orders existed until I learned about the Enneagram -- social hierarchies might be more of a Conservative thing than an SO thing, though, so idk.
That said, I do care about people getting screwed by the system. I like learning about the machinery of how society works. I'm interested in what other people are feeling, and many of these people naturally value SO.
Last edited by xerx; 06-12-2019 at 05:49 PM.
No , i don't have interest with politics , news , and what's going on here
Although , i know them from twitter
But , i prefer do tie strong bond with my close friends and crush and learn something i've prove to my studies
YES. Absolutely. I have chosen my hill to die on. Have you?
I'll leave you in chaos
Which is no longer part of me
For I am the eye of the storm
I am the living center
I am an ancient order
And what is Chaos is secondary to me
Its world of rags
Applies no longer to me
I'm a traditionalist, not some fucking conservative idiot, like Trump, Republicans or the Tories.
I should expand on what I consider tradition: principles (universally true) expressed by different peoples from different perspectives. (kinda Ti way of seeing it and not what most ppl expect).
Btw have you heard of permaculture: https://www.permaculturenews.org/what-is-permaculture/
Last edited by SGF; 10-29-2020 at 07:55 AM.
i've seen it argued before that only so-instinct can really care about politics. i am not sure if i really believe this. politics are a threat to self-preservation, is what i am aware of. the realm of all social things (group dynamics) are dangerous. when acting as a group humans can display some of the worst aspects of their nature, a blind mob that has lost individual sense of anything. it's scary af. one-on-one humans are okay but since all humans are connected in networks to other humans (if not through relations then through beliefs, culture, etc.) there is little safety in numbers (it tends to be the opposite). the social pecking order looks for scapegoats in emotion driven ways, or in strategic ways. it's incredibly instinctual. unfortunately the individual can't ever truly be free from the society, unless it can really find a way to meet all survival needs independently, which most people can't do.
I am only interested in principles, really (i.e., debating a topic that may be related to politics, but not being engaged in what is actually happening with that topic politically). I am almost never in camp A or camp B on a topic, but rather I just make up my own mind on what I think makes the most sense, given what I know and the arguments being put forth. Typically some things I agree with camp A, and some things I agree with camp B.
I hate when people tell me that "I should vote." Why? I don't know enough. Note that I live in Canada, so we are lucky enough to have three full parties with a realistic chance of winning. If I lives in America I may vote, because I would vote liberal; however, I would not consider myself "locked in" to liberal in Canada, and I would consider voting conservative (I agree with some aspects here).
I hate politics because they typically dissolve into "camp A" hating "camp B" and you can't help but notice that the people on both sides are essentially the exact same beyond the fact that, based on whatever life factor lead to it, they just ended up on two different sides of the same issue. It is rather laughable in that sense.That is an So-thing I think: smearing someone for being on the opposite side of the issue as you, while being oblivious to the fact that maybe you really only hate that person because they remind you so much of yourself?
Also, and maybe this is an SO-thing too - how can people know so much about so many topics? I swear, so/sps will talk about anything from sexuality, gender, race, environmentalism, abortion, the economy, the stock market, homelessness, drugs, mental health, etc. etc. with, what they think is a well formulated opinion, but is typically just them saying exactly what someone else said 20 years ago, or exactly what they are "supposed to" say, depending on what political party they affiliate with. Don't get me wrong, I try and be a good person, but if something does not interest me then it does not interest me.
Oh, I also hate office politics. If you have an issue come up and say it to my face, and I will do the same. Everything is so melodramatic, but does it really matter that much that Heather used a red pen to fill out her hours? No, it doesn't. Move on girl. so/sps love to complain about weird shit like that.
In terms of social justice: don't tell people what they can and can't say. If you are "damaged" or "triggered" by someone calling you a mean name, then you gotta grow tf up. Sorry, I think that that is just pathetic. I also think people who purposefully try to hurt people by calling them names are pathetic - it works both ways.
Prooofs:
I'm beta quadra ST, so Its not surprising that I'm rather zealous, have us vs them mentality and hold political views which run counter to most everything mainstream.
Last edited by SGF; 10-29-2020 at 05:25 PM.
I've seen his name popping up on YT recommendations a lot, as well as his face in the thumbnail but seriously, people, WHO THE FUCK IS JORDAN PETERSON????!! And why is everyone talking about him, paying him all that undue attention. Seriously, I think I had once clicked on a video with him but I was like eeww, what a skeezy, slimy guy, ewww, why is he always in a shirt looking like this burnt out alcoholic pretending to be professional... urghhh. Is he going to be the next president? I bet that's how Trump became the president, everybody hated him but they kept watching, and he gave a reason for people to point fingers on anything other than themselves and I guess they elected him to keep on having the pretext to deflect and gossip. Now this is what I hate about the socials, they always justify how bad bad can be so that it to flip over to be good. So bad that it's good = ironic camp. They get off on watching shit, then tweeting about.
That's true. I've already had my share on Personality Cafe. Now I'm getting up to date about this whole new PC-ness through Jon Haidt - interestingly, he also got pissed off by it. This is one of the bane of typology forums: a lot of millenials, a lot of misdirected or directionless, uneducated, immature people feeling like all of a sudden they need a personality. They need a face out there. And they almost always, inexorably, go for something special, outstanding and they just can't be, for the love of God, can't be real on these sites. About life, about misery, about being the underdog, the usual daily stuff.Another reason I don't like the feminist movement is because it scares men to approach women, and nowadays it's like people can't even make a joke or approach a woman without getting the misogynist stamp- it's ridiculous. Young men are already intimidated enough by women without this.
I thought social 6s, more precisely the 6+2 "Republicans" are the moralists, aren't they? There aren't much social last women out there, as much as I've reckoned. 5s may think they are.Edit: btw, alot of social last women are feminists too. maybe not active but I've seen 6s 'expose' guys who came on to them in a "wrong" way. Because 6s are moralistic and they need supporters (people agreeing with their opinions) to have their security, and being anti-feminist is fairly unaccepted though it's becoming more accepted now
Anyways, knowing that this whole "protective vindictiveness" has already been criticized in 2016 as psychologically incorrect (by Haidt), I'll be turning more active politically..., well, just a bit, to broadcast the message on these typology forums that banning people for flirting with women is just not awesome. If they do it against being declined, then I agree, but done once, tentatively is not an offense. Of course, for the socials, it to be an offense is politically motivated. They'd get the smart people's reputation down so that their criticism would not be listened to.
Except for impaired empathy, an ordinary guy who's looking for down-to-earth, loving, loyal friends and a geeky, warm, voluptuous girlfriend!
Peter Josephson is a professor and psychologist who got famous for his stance against the Canadian Bill C-16. What the bill says exactly, I'm not sure. It seems vague to me. Anyway, yeah it does seem to me like Jordan Josephson, like Donald Trumps, knows how to manipulate the media. He knows how to get the spotlight to shine in his direction. He's a psychologist after all, so I guess he knows how to manipulate people. I have a theory that came to me just now. Maybe they say things on purpose that they know people will take out of context or unfairly slam them for. And then they can say, "Look how unfairly I'm being treated. I'm harmless. I'm a victim. Everybody is treating me badly and unfairly." I guess it distracts from the actual horrible, violence-supporting things that they say. Plus it gets them attention. That's what they want. That's what every troll wants.
EII-INFj / INFP / Strong E4 and 9 energy / Melancholic-Phlegmatic / Musical-Intrapersonal-Spatial / Kinky-Sensual
Peter Josephson??D What was his dissertation about? I'm sure it must've been something about the art or psychology of persuasion.
Except for impaired empathy, an ordinary guy who's looking for down-to-earth, loving, loyal friends and a geeky, warm, voluptuous girlfriend!
About Bill C-16 you mean? His critique of it was something about freedom of speech and that one shouldn't be forced to use words or names or pronouns or what not. Whether the Bill actually goes against freedom of speech, I don't know for sure.Peter Josephson??
EII-INFj / INFP / Strong E4 and 9 energy / Melancholic-Phlegmatic / Musical-Intrapersonal-Spatial / Kinky-Sensual
I checked it. I think Jordan Peterson does the right thing in this case, in advocating against... well, if not precisely against the Bill C-16, but the more general "vindictive protectiveness" of transgender and non-gender-binary people's entitlement towards criminalizing someone because of misnaming their gender. There's a simple way of slipping out of this conflict: just call people based on their sex. Gender is cultural and you can always say you have perceived the person as physically male, even if they claim to be a transgender "woman." Just say that you though they were transvestites who still identified with being male. I mean what's the offense in insisting on calling someone based on their sex of birth? No plastic surgery is perfect.About Bill C-16 you mean? His critique of it was something about freedom of speech and that one shouldn't be forced to use words or names or pronouns or what not. Whether the Bill actually goes against freedom of speech, I don't know for sure.
Except for impaired empathy, an ordinary guy who's looking for down-to-earth, loving, loyal friends and a geeky, warm, voluptuous girlfriend!
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