Organizing society according to the quadras

[lavos]

Since each quadra holds different values (due to valuing different aspects of reality) wouldn't it make sense to rearrange the world in way so that certain areas are Alpha based, others are Beta based, Gamma based, and Delta based? A Delta society with delta values, and run by deltas, and so on. That way, people who are unhappy in a particular place that doesn't hold their values, can go live to some other place where they are welcomed and their values and lifestyle are the common norm. Additionally, they would engage with people from their quadra everyday (improving mental health and healing neurosis, as per A.Augusta), and duals would meet much more easily. It could be something feasible in the distant future.

Any additions or qualms to this idea? Would it be a good measure?

[woofwoofl]

Spreading the informational and infrastructural tools for people, of their own volition, to self-organize into quadras or socionically-relevant structures (e.g. benefit rings), sure maybe. Otherwise, who/what does the deciding, and with whose money/armies?

[ooo]

it sounds like a labor camp. the functions don't really mean "different aspects of reality", they rather denote different approaches to reality. reality is subjective, not based on your type, or on your quadra. the types and the quadras are more like the way in which you approach the world.
further on, not every type is attracted by their duals, or by all the people that are in the same quadra, that's rather simplistic, therefore quite wrong.
belonging to a type does not equal valuing all the functions in the same amount as the model says, that's why sub-types are so important and even Jung mentions this.
dividing the world based on how we process it would be counterproductive, it would be like reproducing only inside the same race, or smth of the like.
"yo you value carrots? you must just eat carrot pies for the rest of your life". fk that tbh

[FDG]

in many ways this happens already in an automatic way.

[Number 9 large]

No bad move cuz:

What about ur family, u just gonna leave them?
If youre abeta growing up in delta society or alpha in gamma society your youth will be hell.
Either ull have a shitty youth or ull have to be pulled away from ur parents
2. Some types are really really rare so meeting your dual wont work. Just look at sei to ile ratio for example
Mirror and identical relations dont always work well, especially with se egoswho want the other to submit.
Stuff like semi duality would fix that in a way.

[Skepsis]

Ah......no.

[Shining]

It wouldn't work, Se valuer would invade, rape, kill, turn to slavery, steal technologies ... to the poor Ne valuers societies.

[WinnieW]

...Se valuer would invade, rape, kill, turn to slavery, steal technologies ... to the poor Ne valuers societies.

Se-PoLR statement, I agree "socionics-type-brother".

[Chae]

I already think such overall organizations exist, you just have to find them. Agree with @FDG, this is already going on, especially with the aristocratic quadras. And I mean go settle in Hollywood or Brazil for your dose of , become a train conductor in Siberia for some Gamma or Delta logics If you are unhappy right now you can move anyways, chances are the place you are attracted to fulfills a lot of the quadra government you suggest, and has types from other quadras that complement it quite nicely. It's just all about not sticking with what you've been given by birth.

[ouronis]

No, siloing yourself away from differing perspectives is bound to fuck you up.

[Kill4Me]

Socionics New Wave dissolves the quadra values mythology once and for all. More here on the quadra values mythology and open/closed methods for typing. the VI layout at Socionics.com is inferior to mine. They use a closed borders approach. That binds socionists into a straightjacket and leads to mistypings. The VI layout that comes out the best is the one which implicitly contains the truest information about socionics. Mine is clearly the best. I left no loose ends. It's unbelievable. Use it. Study it. Make it the center of your socionics universe. Quadra values needs to be a thing of the past -- a relic!

[Sol]

It would be useful to dualize people in marriages to reduce their types and such to make them more effective and more free from negative types' and IR effects.
All 8 functions are equal in the importance for the life and complete psyche has no significantly expressed type.

Quadras are hard be used for today very specialized occupations. So this will give not much, as people of different clubs would have surface contacts.

For recreation, studing, therapy and entertainment may be more use of partly supplementing types from other quadras, than of same club from your quadra.

Another thing. Activators are easy to communicate, but those people never gave me deep interest of soul attraction, - only surface interest. Other J/P and issues of same E/I may significantly compensate the good from same values, at least for many of them. Being LSE, I prefered quiet (I) and/or stable (J) people as friends/pals/romance. IEE were near me too and gave some sympathy, but never strong wish for more. IR still need be researched on practice, as I may be not unique in this.

[Stellafera]

It wouldn't work, Se valuer would invade, rape, kill, turn to slavery, steal technologies ... to the poor Ne valuers societies.

it wouldn't work, the Ne valuing societies would be a bunch of self-entitled yogis who need the Si types to wash their ass for them

[WinnieW]

it wouldn't work, the Ne valuing societies would be a bunch of self-entitled yogis who need the Si types to wash their ass for them

Both are quite generalized statements. Yours and that one from shining.
Even people of the same type are different.

Honestly, the examples from shining shows Se-valuers with very weak ethical values (or under extremely poor society conditions).

[powerrainbowcrystal]

This question has been discussed before, probably three or four times. Still is pretty interesting I guess.

I think it's comparable to small towns generally being more conservative; more about the same kind of people gathering and big liberal cities being more diverse.

It would be overrated and not the best idea. You wouldn't have your semi-dual or benefactor/beneficiary- all very positive relations. No supervisor to challenge you to grow, and Mirror relationships can quite often be meh or they don't get along at all even. Most duals probably don't get on too well either unless other non-socionic factors come into play. I also think it would feel too hectic/fast-pace (more so than it already is) because there'd be too many activators activating. One on one that's often a romantic/nice thing but in a community sense I think it would make people feel more neurotic.

And personally I love a small group of Betas in my living room but... don't really want a society of just Betas lol.

I think a smarter idea is to put the Fe valuing quadras on one side of the world, and the Fi valuing on the other maybe. Though personally I'd keep a few SEEs/ESIs/IEEs. All the other Fi valuers I wouldn't mind putting in a concentration ca- I mean wouldn't mind them living somewhere else.

[Sol]

become a train conductor in Siberia for some Gamma or Delta logics

you don't like delta logics. I knew this

[lavos]

I've devised another experiment here: http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...irth?p=1251186

[lavos]

No bad move cuz:

What about ur family, u just gonna leave them?
If youre abeta growing up in delta society or alpha in gamma society your youth will be hell.
Either ull have a shitty youth or ull have to be pulled away from ur parents
2. Some types are really really rare so meeting your dual wont work. Just look at sei to ile ratio for example
Mirror and identical relations dont always work well, especially with se egoswho want the other to submit.
Stuff like semi duality would fix that in a way.

It doesn't have to be obligatory. It can be purely informative. Say, it would simply be known which quadra a particular place belongs to. I believe, like others have mentioned, that this happens automatically , and some places simply have a determinate energy of a certain quadra (not sure why this happens). So knowing which places is of which quadra, you can decide where to live and/or work. But not all people in the place must obligatorily be from that quadra.

For example, if you are a beta, you are not forced to go live in the beta area; you can live in the delta area if you want (maybe you like it more -- likes are always subjetive, or your friends/family are from another quadra, etc).

[at sirac son of sirac]

Since each quadra holds different values (due to valuing different aspects of reality) wouldn't it make sense to rearrange the world in way so that certain areas are Alpha based, others are Beta based, Gamma based, and Delta based? A Delta society with delta values, and run by deltas, and so on. That way, people who are unhappy in a particular place that doesn't hold their values, can go live to some other place where they are welcomed and their values and lifestyle are the common norm. Additionally, they would engage with people from their quadra everyday (improving mental health and healing neurosis, as per A.Augusta), and duals would meet much more easily. It could be something feasible in the distant future.

Any additions or qualms to this idea? Would it be a good measure?

Well when you say the world, how will these people be typed? What about the people who you type as XXX then they say i'm YYY? But then the quadra they end up in might want to kick them out? I'm just wondering how this would work.

But, I think there's a better idea. In most places in the world you have the right of association, that's, you can choose who you wish to hang out with (friends). Maybe in the meantime we can just choose who we want to spend our QT (quality time) with?

So, it's all good, and, on here, you have gamma quadra http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...2-Gamma-Quadra to be around if things don't go so great elsewhere in the meantime

[Stellafera]

Both are quite generalized statements. Yours and that one from shining.
Even people of the same type are different.

That's sort of what I was getting at, yeah.

[lavos]

Well when you say the world, how will these people be typed? What about the people who you type as XXX then they say i'm YYY? But then the quadra they end up in might want to kick them out? I'm just wondering how this would work.

But, I think there's a better idea. In most places in the world you have the right of association, that's, you can choose who you wish to hang out with (friends). Maybe in the meantime we can just choose who we want to spend our QT (quality time) with?

So, it's all good, and, on here, you have gamma quadra http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...2-Gamma-Quadra to be around if things don't go so great elsewhere in the meantime

The experiment necessitates that everyone is typed with close to 100% accuraccy. And gamma is the quadra that least cares about quadra distinctions. Not to mention too that who knows if the supposed gammas (or anyone) is correctly typed on this site.

[at sirac son of sirac]

The experiment necessitates that everyone is typed with close to 100% accuraccy. And gamma is the quadra that least cares about quadra distinctions. Not to mention too that who knows if the supposed gammas (or anyone) is correctly typed on this site.

Just when I begin to look for humor I begin to wonder if you're serious.

But yeah, it might be a good idea in theory (just like socionics might be a good idea in theory) but the problems you listed re the gamma quadra would just be the same problems in real life: even dualz fight. But hey I wish no one had to fight.

Hmm, if you're focused on all this stuff just now, maybe you could write a little about what those quadra societies would be like? It might be fun for your N and Te. Maybe then you could see if you'd like to live in the Gamma quadra you describe? But I think it would be a lot like how life is now, and groups are usually people of shared values, how much do you think quadra values override other values?

But to answer your question, I'd be too lazy to try it, moving house is a real hassle

Edit: I just noticed there's no drinks sipping emoticon, where is the Si? There's Chinese, but I didn't feel like Chinese

[Kalinoche buenanoche]

why society and not a company? and most importantly, would you tell the employees they are placed according to a type?

[at sirac son of sirac]

why society and not a company? and most importantly, would you tell the employees they are placed according to a type?

I don't know if I'd like to spend all day with a bunch of lazy Delta STs, while competing for the attention of the Delta NFs, you know, it would be too like staring into the mirror

[WinnieW]

That's sort of what I was getting at, yeah.

I realized that a few minutes after I wrote my comment. My is in the ID-Block, you know.

[Chae]

I don't know if I'd like to spend all day with a bunch of lazy Delta STs, while competing for the attention of the Delta NFs, you know, it would be too like staring into the mirror

WHY DO YOU HATE US YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO BE ON OUR SIDE #Heartbroken #Betrayed



Besides. When was competition and resenting others for laziness ever a Delta quality That's more like...

[Sol]

When was competition and resenting others for laziness ever a Delta quality

It's easy Watson. *puffing away by the pipe and using the violin as the ashtray*
About laziness he takes from himself as thinks his type as delta ST (wrongly). While dislikes the competing with delta ST for the attention of delta NF as he has no chance against them, being not delta ST.

[at sirac son of sirac]

WHY DO YOU HATE US YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO BE ON OUR SIDE #Heartbroken #Betrayed



Besides. When was competition and resenting others for laziness ever a Delta quality That's more like...

I can never work out if you're serious, but, sadly, what I do see when you talk is Fe - you're always speaking in a way to get an emotional response.

Anyway haha, it's not really Se that you see, it's your weird idea of functions. What you're seeing (or pretending you're not seeing, due to your value on initial energetic condition, Fe) is basically irony at myself by saying I don't want to see myself all day, i'm calling myself lazy and saying Delta NFs are all women who act silly and just 'swoon' for attention. It's all rather understated Delta (and to a certain degree, Gamma) humor, which I think user @kalinoche got.

Anyway, you probs mean well, but, it's common with Fe's on this forum, user ooo is the same, the type of emotional energetic reaction doesn't sit too well with non Fe valuers. Mostly i'm lazing here chilling as i'm preparing for an early night for an early rise tomorrow, I realized after a little bit where a lot of the seemingly weird posts (to me) come from, Fe ego's

[lavos]

Hmm, if you're focused on all this stuff just now, maybe you could write a little about what those quadra societies would be like?

Well, they would be very similar to the usual quadra descriptions.

The Alpha society would be very focused on group interactions, would host parties frequently, where sweets are handed out freely, and people laugh and tell fart jokes. Kids would receive a varied education, where titles and diploma's are of utmost importance. Having fun would be a priority. You would be allowed to tell anyone anything regarless of rudeness, but use of force would be forbidden. Quarrels would be frequent. This society would be very structured in all aspects. This would show in the goverment structures and in the overall lineout of the cities.

Beta society would probably be hierarchical. Those with better jobs would be at the top, and would rule those that are of lower rank. In an extreme case, slavery could occur. An atmosphere of a battleground could envelop this society. Any deviation from the norm would be punished. The penalty for rape would be lessened. Even more structured than alpha society.

Gamma society would greatly emphasize personal freedom. There would probably be an universal basic income for everyone. Those who would want to work, will be encouraged to, but those that don't won't be chastised for it. Very egalitarian. Crimes would be severely punished. Overall a very permissive society as long as you don't infringe over the rights of others.

Delta society would be similar to alpha society except they will not tell fart jokes. It will also be more peaceful and less quarrelsome. People would be very helpful and emphatic towards each other. Crimes would be punished but the focus will be in reforming the offender, and redeeming the bad actions.

This is all somewhat extreme and focusing only of the valued functions of each quadra. In reality, people care about their non-valued functions too, and in a society with all 4 integrants of the quadra coexist, via demonstrative and role, all aspects of reality would be covered. So probably all societies would have a baseline of similarity, except that when it comes to what's important, each society would prioritize some things over others. In a healthy un-estressed individual, all functional positions (but especially non-valued demo and role -- which belong to the opposite quadra) are important and used frequently.

[DirectorAbbie]

I considered this idea years before, but realized the main problem with it is families. My parents are Deltas, and one of their kids is a Beta. This happens. And families would likely not want to be split up. Even if the oddball was raised in Delta area but moved to Beta area later, his childhood could be worse with no same-quadra-ites around.

[at sirac son of sirac]

Ah, I was hoping for some Ne, rather than just what the text books say. I disagree with a lot of it, actually where's the N? Hmm I suppose it's not quite S either. See you're not for instance factoring in how any society can take on a belief system, such as you get - Hinduism etc, so depending on the belief system, for instance Delta wouldn't rehabilitate offenders, maybe they'd just kill them.

[lavos]

Ah, I was hoping for some Ne, rather than just what the text books say. I disagree with a lot of it, actually where's the N? Hmm I suppose it's not quite S either. See you're not for instance factoring in how any society can take on a belief system, such as you get - Hinduism etc, so depending on the belief system, for instance Delta wouldn't rehabilitate offenders, maybe they'd just kill them.

I think the issue might be that you are unknoledgeable and/or inexperienced enough with socionics yet. I think that, roughly, alpha societies would be mostly atheistic or following some organized religion that is not too extreme, gamma's would be agnostic, and delta and beta's would follow one of the main religions, christianity would probably be more delta though. Delta's are not very likely to kill offenders, regardless of the crime. Gamma's are more likely to do so though (but only in extreme cases).

[at sirac son of sirac]

I think the issue might be that you are unknoledgeable and/or inexperienced enough with socionics yet. I think that, roughly, alpha societies would be mostly atheistic or following some organized religion that is not too extreme, gamma's would be agnostic, and delta and beta's would follow one of the main religions, christianity would probably be more delta though. Delta's are not very likely to kill offenders, regardless of the crime. Gamma's are more likely to do so though (but only in extreme cases).

Considering that all of your ideas on your threads are being universally ridiculed, maybe it's you who doesn't understand (or experienced with) it yet.

Anyway, depending on the country you go to, something like the death penalty for murder can be almost universally supported, so the facts my entrepreneur blows your theories out the water. Doesn't mean ideas can't be fun

But, don't you think it's weird that a Gamma would call hierarchy based on experience just like you did? Socionics may suggest a beta / Delta quadra for you.

[lavos]

Considering that all of your ideas on your threads are being universally ridiculed

Not true, and even if it was; I don't fucking care.

Anyway, depending on the country you go to, something like the death penalty for murder can be almost universally supported,

Debatable.

But, don't you think it's weird that a Gamma would call hierarchy based on experience just like you did? Socionics may suggest a beta / Delta quadra for you.

Learn socionics and then try talking to me again.

[Chae]

I can never work out if you're serious, but, sadly, what I do see when you talk is Fe - you're always speaking in a way to get an emotional response.

Anyway haha, it's not really Se that you see, it's your weird idea of functions. What you're seeing (or pretending you're not seeing, due to your value on initial energetic condition, Fe) is basically irony at myself by saying I don't want to see myself all day, i'm calling myself lazy and saying Delta NFs are all women who act silly and just 'swoon' for attention. It's all rather understated Delta (and to a certain degree, Gamma) humor, which I think user @kalinoche got.

Anyway, you probs mean well, but, it's common with Fe's on this forum, user ooo is the same, the type of emotional energetic reaction doesn't sit too well with non Fe valuers. Mostly i'm lazing here chilling as i'm preparing for an early night for an early rise tomorrow, I realized after a little bit where a lot of the seemingly weird posts (to me) come from, Fe ego's

Of course I do, ethics on fleek. What you do with your reaction's up to you. Interesting that you can't distinguish it
So the point is we don't understand each other's wit, fair enough.
What I see is you being a try-hard SLI shoving me into Beta since we don't get along oh-so magically vice versa. One of us is off, but we already know this. Saying I have a weird idea of the elements won't make ya any better.

[at sirac son of sirac]

Not true, and even if it was; I don't fucking care.



Debatable.



Learn socionics and then try talking to me again.

It's not debatable. Most African countries by in far believe in the death penalty, and heavy penalties for homosexuals. You don't understand that preference for information metabolism can have a limited affect on beliefs on some major issues.

I'm curious about your type now, F is possible.

[at sirac son of sirac]

Of course I do, ethics on fleek. What you do with your reaction's up to you. Interesting that you can't distinguish it
So the point is we don't understand each other's wit, fair enough.
What I see is you being a try-hard SLI shoving me into Beta since we don't get along oh-so magically vice versa. One of us is off, but we already know this. Saying I have a weird idea of the elements won't make ya any better.

I never said we don't get along, what I was thinking before you responded is that we don't have to agree or even always understand each other to get along, but again, you ascribe motivations to me that don't exist (Fe) whilst yet again down playing finding commonalities and peaceful interactions (unvalued Fi, valued Se).

Besides, didn't you re-type Syrup/Crystal out of Delta, and type cosmic teapot as Delta. Your typing skills are not good.

[Chae]

I never said we don't get along, what I was thinking before you responded is that we don't have to agree or even always understand each other to get along, but again, you ascribe motivations to me that don't exist (Fe) whilst yet again down playing finding commonalities and peaceful interactions (unvalued Fi, valued Se).

Besides, didn't you re-type Syrup/Crystal out of Delta, and type cosmic teapot as Delta. Your typing skills are not good.

That means not getting along So what

[at sirac son of sirac]

That means not getting along So what

It just means more Fe from you, emotional fights are for beta and alpha. I wonder if I need to put you on ignore? If you want to be my friend then you need to stop posting this type of nonesense to me, otherwise it's a quiet life for me by the ignore button. Which is it? A lack of response will also indicate ignore option

[Chae]

It just means more Fe from you, emotional fights are for beta and alpha. I wonder if I need to put you on ignore? If you want to be my friend
then you need to stop posting this type of nonesense to me, otherwise it's a quiet life for me by the ignore button. Which is it? A lack of response will also indicate ignore option

What emotional fight? I'm all well and think it's trivial, consequently you should opt to do it since the weight's on your side. Hm, neither can you tell if I like you or not while the latter is clearly the case