Socionics For Dummies

[Olimpia]

Do you think enneagram type can change? ... There is maybe a theory for this already, and I just don't know about it, I haven't looked too much into enneagram.

From what i've seen, enneagram represents personality traits, to compensate for changes in personality, it gives health levels of a type.

But ... what is the basis for enneagram, why 9 types? It seems a bit incomplete to me.

I would imagine enneagram type (or fixes ... i'm not sure if I'm using the word right) can change over time, as people can change over time.

BTW - if this is not the right place for this post, let me know, and i'll move it, or just remove it. It may be you are looking to build a beginners guide here, which is commendable, so the less clutter the better, either way it's cool.

No problem, keep asking!

Yeah there are different theories on this issue.

I think/believe that essentially, Enneagram types (tritype, stacking, core etc.) do NOT change.

However, as you said, health levels can and do change, which can make people express their type(s) quite differently.

Also, it seems like we can use our instincts and tritype fixes to some extent dynamically or flexibly, depending on what a specific situation requires, what kind of life obstacles you are facing rn, etc.

For example, if you are in a situation where food is scarce, or you want to lose weight, you'll have to rely on your SP instinct; and you'll occupy your mind with SP matters, even if you are SP blindspot.

Or if you are faced with a confrontational situation and you are a 9 fix, you will likely act like a 9 core in that situation, but otherwise revert back to your main type or second fix, depending on what is going on...

The origins of the Enneagram are rather mysterious and vague, and I cannot tell you why it is 9 types. ^^'

[at sirac son of sirac]

No problem, keep asking!

Yeah there are different theories on this issue.

I think/believe that essentially, Enneagram types (tritype, stacking, core etc.) do NOT change.

However, as you said, health levels can and do change, which can make people express their type(s) quite differently.

Also, it seems like we can use our instincts and tritype fixes to some extent dynamically or flexibly, depending on what a specific situation requires, what kind of life obstacles you are facing rn, etc.

For example, if you are in a situation where food is scarce, or you want to lose weight, you'll have to rely on your SP instinct; and you'll occupy your mind with SP matters, even if you are SP blindspot.

Or if you are faced with a confrontational situation and you are a 9 fix, you will likely act like a 9 core in that situation, but otherwise revert back to your main type or second fix, depending on what is going on...

The origins of the Enneagram are rather mysterious and vague, and I cannot tell you why it is 9 types. ^^'

Yeah. That's the thing with socionics, there's a reason why there's 16 types - why there's no more, no less, ie only 4 ways of 'interacting with the world' and an extraverted and introverted side to each, so structurally it's good for Ti.

Enneagram looks like there's more for a leap of faith, there doesn't seem to be a reason for 9 types, or for types to connect such as 9 to 6 to 3, but it's all quite interesting.

I did a test and it gave me a 6

Enneagram Test Results

The Enneagram is a personality system which divides the entire human personality into nine behavioral tendencies, this is your score on each... Type 1 Orderliness |||||||||| 38% Type 2 Helpfulness |||||||||||||| 58% Type 3 Image Focus |||||||||| 38% Type 4 Individualism |||||||||||||| 58% Type 5 Intellectualism |||||||||||||||| 62% Type 6 Security Focus |||||||||||||||| 62% Type 7 Adventurousness |||||||||||||| 58% Type 8 Aggressiveness |||||||||||||||| 62% Type 9 Calmness |||||||||||||||| 62%

type	score	type behavior motivation
5	15	I must be knowledgeable to survive.
6	15	I must be secure and safe to survive.
8	15	I must be strong and in control to survive.
9	15	I must maintain peace/calm to survive.
2	14	I must be helpful and caring to survive.
4	14	I must be unique/different to survive.
7	14	I must be fun and entertained to survive.
1	9	I must be orderly/planned to survive.
3	9	I must be impressive and attractive to survive.

Your main type is Type 6 Your variant stacking is omni Your level of health is above average

Your main type is which ever behavior you utilize most and/or prefer. Your variant reflects your scoring profile on all nine types: so = social variant (compliant, friendly), sx = sexual variant (assertive, intense), sp = self preservation variant (withdrawn, security seeking). For info on the flaws of the Enneagram system click here. I'd say i'm generally in a 9 frame of mind, going by the descriptions. Anyway, thanks for the info!

[Olimpia]

The whole Duality premise/ideal is quite Sx/Sp.

It's like Socionics has mostly been built up by SO blindspot Alpha NTs and some EIIs.

[maniac]

The whole Duality premise/ideal is quite Sx/Sp.

It's like Socionics has mostly been built up by SO blindspot Alpha NTs and some EIIs.

Hell no, it's a social first system. It's entirety is built up on inter-type-RELATIONS. It's all in all focused on how people communicate and the relations they have with eachother. This is the essence of the social instinct.
The idea of "duality" and you two bettering eachother is also social.

[Sol]

It's entirety is built up on inter-type-RELATIONS.

It's not, as there is also knowledge where you are stronger and weaker.
While besides relations, there is your personal comfort - which people are better FOR YOU, what is SP related. And which people may you to like more and hence which will arise more passion in you, what is some sense is SX related.

> It's all in all focused on how people communicate

It's primarily focused on the contents of your consciousness and only then, based on this how you relate with others.

> The idea of "duality" and you two bettering eachother is also social.

The method to reduce problems in own life is also SP.

[Olimpia]

It's not, as there is also knowledge where you are stronger and weaker.
While besides relations, there is your personal comfort - which people are better FOR YOU, what is SP related. And which people may you to like more and hence which will arise more passion in you, what is some sense is SX related.

> It's all in all focused on how people communicate

It's primarily focused on the contents of your consciousness and only then, based on this how you relate with others.

> The idea of "duality" and you two bettering eachother is also social.

The method to reduce problems in own life is also SP.

Sol = Sp/Sx confirmed

[Sol]

Sol = Sp/Sx confirmed

I did not researched thoroughly subtypes of Enneagram. If some of E-types themselves look like fiting to my experience, meanwhile subtypes seem as doubtful still. It's other typology, not Enneagram types.

[maniac]

It's not, as there is also knowledge where you are stronger and weaker.
While besides relations, there is your personal comfort - which people are better FOR YOU, what is SP related. And which people may you to like more and hence which will arise more passion in you, what is some sense is SX related.

> It's all in all focused on how people communicate

It's primarily focused on the contents of your consciousness and only then, based on this how you relate with others.

> The idea of "duality" and you two bettering eachother is also social.

The method to reduce problems in own life is also SP.

"Better for you" is mainly social. social lasts have no need to be seen as "good" in the way others do. The stackings are unbalances, so really, everyone would benefit from working on their last, weakest instinct because the last instinct actually helps the first instinct. For a sp/sx for example, getting better at social will make their career better, too. It's not something that's inherently in them, though. They have to work on that.

The idea of having another person help/support you /make you 'better' is social. Bonding is social. Networking is social. Communicating is social. Words are social.

[Sol]

"Better for you" is mainly social

If "better for me" does not relate to self-protection, then additonal lols to e-subtypes or how you understand them.

[at sirac son of sirac]

Hmmmm....

so social is about gaining protection and empowerment in larger entities.

sp is about protecting yourself.

I could see how an sp would rather not rely on a relationship, because it's another person which is unpredictable.

sx/sp would go for that relationship at the exclusion of all other things, so the two as an entity then protects.

sp/sx would preserve themself 1st, but form a bond with that special one if they were sure it wouldn't harm them.

Hence the nature of typologies, always open to discussion.

[maniac]

Hmmmm....

so social is about gaining protection and empowerment in larger entities.

sp is about protecting yourself.

I could see how an sp would rather not rely on a relationship, because it's another person which is unpredictable.

sx/sp would go for that relationship at the exclusion of all other things, so the two as an entity then protects.

sp/sx would preserve themself 1st, but form a bond with that special one if they were sure it wouldn't harm them.

Hence the nature of typologies, always open to discussion.

From an sp/sx I talked to they can get obsessed about a relationship (as can any stacking) but they will instinctually report back into themselves and see how much energy or how much personal sacrifying the relationship is taking out of them. Sp firsts instinctually set their own personal experience of things first while an sx first in a relationship the constant instinctual focus would be "how turned on am i by this person" and focusing/worrying about how to stay attracted to the partner - this is a focus in sx second too clearly but neurotic for the sx first.

[at sirac son of sirac]

Question: Why would someone care about (so) about threats to their reputation and standing? Sounds like a lot of paranoia taking place.

edit: I'm a mixture of sx/sp and sp/sx. Maybe sx/sp when I was younger but sp/sx makes more sense to now .... I get it we have to be just one. Maybe life experience has taught me to be sp/sx and play it safe.

[at sirac son of sirac]

What does 'IR' stand for?? I'm guessing intertype-relationship.

[squark]

Ah, sorry @WinnieW, when replying I didn't double-check your post and thought you were eliminating all alphas rather than just alpha SFs. So the bit about LIIs was kind of pointless of me. But yeah, I think it'd be extremely odd and extremely rare if not impossible for SEI or SLI to be an E1. I do think that ESE and LSE can be though and that it's probably fairly common.

[WinnieW]

Hello @squark
I didn't state that there are no ESE or LSE with core e-type 1 are out there.
There are a few explanations for:
Possibly I met such people but talked not long enough with them to realize they are type 1.
My personal life expirences are statisticaly not relevant enough, means I can't extrapolate and conclude there are no ESE or LSE of E-type 1 at all.
But I didn't state there can't be Alpha SF or Delta ST E-type 1 people out there.

[Olimpia]

Only in the Gamma Quadra you'll find Duals who actively hate each other, mainly ESI-LIE, with most of the hate coming from ESI.

[Sol]

Only in the Gamma Quadra you'll find Duals who actively hate each other

conlficts may happen between people of any types

[Olimpia]

Loudest in bed: EIE and SEE women
Quietest in bed: SLI and LII men

Yep, it is 4D -Fe vs 1D +Fe.

[WinnieW]

Loudest in bed: EIE and SEE women
Quietest in bed: SLI and LII men

Are you refering to snoring?

[Olimpia]

Are you refering to snoring?

Nope.

[Olimpia]

That person who makes a peace sign when you take a group picture:

Probably 9 fix (likely core), possibly Fe valuing.

[mAAd city]

It's cool to see people trying to correlate Socionics with Enneagram. People like to say that they're totally separate, but I'm pretty sure that all of the different personality systems claim to describe people's over-arching behavior/thought processes, so I don't think that you can separate them easily. Someone on PerC thought that their mother was ESFJ and 5. Now if that's not idiotic, I don't know what is. Their excuse: these are different systems!!

[Chthonic Daydream]

It's cool to see people trying to correlate Socionics with Enneagram. People like to say that they're totally separate, but I'm pretty sure that all of the different personality systems claim to describe people's over-arching behavior/thought processes, so I don't think that you can separate them easily. Someone on PerC thought that their mother was ESFJ and 5. Now if that's not idiotic, I don't know what is. Their excuse: these are different systems!!

Hey, now! Don't discriminate against the poor ILEs who have 4 as their fix. : (

[Olimpia]

Hey, now! Don't discriminate against the poor ILEs who have 4 as their fix. : (

You mean cute IEE-Ne people?

[mAAd city]

Hey, now! Don't discriminate against the poor ILEs who have 4 as their fix. : (

Hahahaha, I mean, I don't know where I stand with fixes in terms of Socionics types because I mostly focus on core type and instincts.
@Olimpia

What would you say about someone, y'know, hypothetically speaking, being typed on different occasions: One for Enneagram, one for Socionics. One typing was so/sp 9, the other was LIE (with a suggestion of ILE). In my eyes, something is definitely wrong. Hmmm ��

[Olimpia]

Hahahaha, I mean, I don't know where I stand with fixes in terms of MBTI types because I mostly focus on core type and instincts.
@Olimpia

What would you say about someone, y'know, hypothetically speaking, being typed on different occasions: One for Enneagram, one for MBTI. One typing was so/sp 9, the other was LIE (with a suggestion of ILE). In my eyes, something is definitely wrong. Hmmm ��

Sounds like at least one of those typings is incorrect.

[mAAd city]

Sounds like at least one of those typings is incorrect.

Hmmmmmmm.

1 thing I'm curious about: Naranjo says that type 9 can be super extroverted, as in taking all of the focus away from their inner world/feelings. He even correlates it with Kiersey's ESFJ (though, IIRC, he also correlates with Si or ISTJ in MBTI terms). From your list, it seems like you think that 9 is almost always IxFx in Socionics terms. Is there any room for any Socionics extrovert to type as 9 or no?

[Muddy]

Reading this thread made me realize how much I've been slacking on socionics lately. I think @Olimpia deserves a gold medal or something for the amount of effort she puts into making socionics understandable. Like seriously I'm just way too lazy in comparison to ever be writing blogs like she does lol.

[Sol]

If you want to be some type, but anything is against it. Just try Reinin's traits or other heresy to rationalize it.
If you are getting IR contradictions, then instead of seeking for comfortable heresies, - just explain this by non-types factors, as there are a lot of them for this.
If nothing helps and you really want to be some type and to have some IR, - then think and say to anyone like "I don't care about Socionics, IR and don't take it seriously" and then being consecutive assign to yourself and your partner the needed types.

[Bertrand]

If you want to be some type, but anything is against it. Just try Reinin's traits or other heresy to rationalize it.
If you are getting IR contradictions, then instead of seeking for comfortable heresies, - just explain this by non-types factors, as there are a lot of them for this.
If nothing helps and you really want to be some type and to have some IR, - then think and say to anyone like "I don't care about Socionics, IR and don't take it seriously" and then being consecutive assign to yourself and your partner the needed types.

e n n e a g r a m

a n a t m a

[Sol]

do you think ALL Reinin dichotomies are garbage?

All of them have no good basis to be used. Too far from the core Jung's theory and without significant experimental basis. There are many hypotheses of similar status. Reinin's traits became popular mostly because they were described by Augustinavichiute where she said it's rather raw. There was Lytov's article about them. They need experimental basis to be taken seriously.

> I kind of like the idea behind them.

It's better to avoid so doubtful theory on practice - you'll risk lesser to mistake because it may be wrong partly or completely.
Jung's dichotomies and 8 functions, model A, and IR are enough.

[Chthonic Daydream]

If you want to type as a Fe base or creative type, just flash your teeth from the inside out! Additionally, we all know that you can't smile if you are a high-dimensional thinking type, don't we?

[powerrainbowcrystal]

I want to hear more about this Fi ego gay male(s) olimpia clashed with. I want the juicy details not just a girly 'hehe they weren't alpha male enough for me' that you always pull cuz yeah duh I already get that.

But details is Te, right?

Yours Truly,
An easily butthurt Faux fi ego gay male in training

[Olimpia]

I want to hear more about this Fi ego gay male(s) olimpia clashed with. I want the juicy details not just a girly 'hehe they weren't alpha male enough for me' that you always pull cuz yeah duh I already get that.

But details is Te, right?

Yours Truly,
An easily butthurt Faux fi ego gay male in training

Olimpia you still never answered my question.

Okay, coming back to this question.

I am not sure how to answer this one, because I've never really "clashed" with Fi ego gay male(s) specifically before.

Gay men usually either leave me alone or are polite but distant or are friendly with me.

[Bertrand]

according to Filatova SLE balls are 3" across and Olimpia measured this guy and he turned out to have tiny 1" soyboy balls ergo Fi

[Olimpia]

according to Filatova SLE balls are 3" across and Olimpia measured this guy and he turned out to have tiny 1" soyboy balls ergo Fi

Sorry to disappoint, but I don't measure balls, even if they are Se ego.

Wait... did you just admit you have tiny balls?

[Bertrand]

Sorry to disappoint, but I don't measure balls, even if they are Se ego.

Wait... did you just admit you have tiny balls?

yes

[Olimpia]

Dat Role.

[Sol]

according to Filatova SLE balls are 3" across

It's evident, Watson. SLE often cheat, IEI girls hit them at balls and those swell to become bigger.

[Olimpia]

It's evident, Watson. SLE often cheat, IEI girls hit them at balls and those swell to become bigger.

Wtf haha