Does getting into a Ti-Ni Loop refers to any type?
Are there any other loops?
Loop is kind of useless way to think about it since the application is still geared towards creative/demonstrative.
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Winning is for losers
Sincerely yours,
idiosyncratic type
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Yes.
Beta Ni and Ti subtype individuals get into "Ti-Ni loops", which can make them look NT.
So basically: IEI-Ni, EIE-Ni, SLE-Ti, LSI-Ti get into "Ti-Ni loops" with certain differences; IEI and LSI can get into their loop with more intensity, because of their HA connection. For EIE and SLE, the loop is less strong, because their Ti or Ni is just their DS, but it can still get surprisingly "loopy".
"Loop" refers to a somewhat obsessive and imbalanced focus on two Information elements, which is typically caused by a (strong) subtype.
IEI-Fe, EIE-Fe, SLE-Se, LSI-Se can get into "Fe-Se loops", which can make them look SF.
LII-Ti, ILE-Ti, SEI-Si, ESE-Si can get into "Ti-Si loops", which can make them look ST.
LII-Ne, ILE-Ne, SEI-Fe, ESE-Fe can get into "Ne-Fe loops", which can make them look NF.
LIE-Te, ILI-Te, ESI-Se, SEE-Se can get into "Te-Se loops", which can make them look ST.
LIE-Ni, ILI-Ni, ESI-Fi, SEE-Fi can get into "Ni-Fi loops", which can make them look NF.
LSE-Te, SLI-Te, EII-Ne, IEE-Ne can get into "Te-Ne loops", which can make them look NT.
LSE-Si, SLI-Si, EII-Fi, IEE-Fi can get into "Si-Fi loops", which can make them look SF.
To avoid loops... you need a balanced perspective.
If introverted, get out of your head and be around people more. Listen to what they say. Don't tune them out or you will be oblivious. It will give you a broader perspective.
If extroverted, take a break now and then, focus on yourself, introspect, listen to the voice within or you will be clueless. It will give you a deeper perspective.
“My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.” —C.G. Jung
Socionics-tailored advice concerning "loops":
If you are Inert (first function) subtype, try to use your Creative a bit more often.
If you are Contact (second function) subtype, try to use your Lead a bit more often.
The only way to really get out of the "loop", is to use both your Ego functions together more.
Because of those "loops", I am inclined to believe that theoretically the ideal state is having no subtype, because that way the Ego functions get utilized the most "naturally", without an odd over-fixation on an Information Element outside of it.
Subtypes seem to be an adaptation to the environment, as well as an inborn inclination of someone (to a perhaps slightly lesser extent).
Afaik, most people with no subtype did not feel the need to focus more on an IE outside of their Ego; because in their environment, their Ego was mostly well-accepted and well-suited to the demands put on them.
Hello! When a person is drunk, which function or block becomes active? Why behaviour changes? Can socionics explain that or it is not related?
Fe, could be positive or negative. Ne when you start assessing everyone's potential and why they are not living up to it. If you drink alone then maybe Fi or convoluted Ti. When you drink too much and end up sick could be Si. If you want to play daredevil or pick a fight Se or Te.
“My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.” —C.G. Jung
It seems like alcohol primarily numbs/dumbs down the Logical/"rational" faculties of the brain... It impacts logical decision-making. Based on my personal experience and observations.
So that results in the person's Ti and Te getting to some extent "turned off". For many people, that then also leads to their Fe and/or Fi getting amplified, which can result in them becoming more giggly, or more sentimental, etc. Also, it tends to diminish Ni – foresight into how actions progress/develop in the future; people become more reckless when they are drunk.
So if you combine all of the above, that would mean that alcohol can make someone more like a fake SF (Alpha > Gamma).
It seems to put people into an Fe/Se state, not just Fe IMO. The stereotypical person who likes to go out and get drunk and rowdy is the Se leading type. We can speculate that it "turns off" certain elements like @Olimpia says, or amplifies others. Other drugs also seem to be correlated with elements - marijuana Si, hallucinogens intuition, amphetamines Se/Te?, etc.
Yeah...
Marijuana makes me feel uncomfortable because I am overloaded with sensation that I am not sure how to handle plus it makes me paranoid. I can't think straight on it and I don't know how anyone does. It tells me to stay away from in in my DNA report for similar reasons. I have seen it turn a SLE into a philosopher though.
“My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.” —C.G. Jung
all kinds of effects.
I have sen person becoming drama queen and pointing himself with an air gun while talking about suicide. Yes, alcohol...
It really depends on person.
MOTTO: NEVER TRUST IN REALITY
Winning is for losers
Sincerely yours,
idiosyncratic type
Life is a joke but do you have a life?
Joinif you dare https://matrix.to/#/#The16Types:matrix.org
Alcohol supresses your consciousness with its strong functions. This allows for weak functions to become easier accessible. You may think like weak functions blocks become more active: F types become more reasonable, T types get more feelings, S types get new irrational impressions, N types feel better the real world.
The problem is alcohol supresses your attention, so you can't to use good weak functions anyway - they are chaotic. In some sense alcohol shows our internal child, a disorganised and slightly calmed version of him.
The optimum level to get this fun is 30-40 gramms of spirit for average 70 kg adult European man per day. What is ~250 ml glass of good vine. Not more! It's better to avoid cheap vines < $7 per 0.7 litre bottle, as you may get higher intoxication from secondary contents.
Being LSE, I personally feel more connection with my N and F functions.
According to Aylen's report probably marijuana does similar, except its specific mind distortions.
Last edited by Sol; 11-04-2017 at 10:53 PM.
Most often Fe and Se are boosted.
yeah I feel like the disinhibition from alcohol operates most obviously on your suggestive, what that looks like is different per type but thats the more general rule. I feel like marijuana messes with intuition/sensing axis specifically
So/Sx makes you seem more Fe (Alpha).
So/Sp makes you seem more Te (Gamma).
Sx/So makes you seem more Se (Beta).
Sx/Sp makes you seem more Fi (Gamma).
Sp first makes you seem more Si (Delta).
Why?
Because many (or even most) people of those stackings actually do have that IE in their Ego, or at least value said IE. But not all of them. So the stereotypes exist for a reason, but they are not 100% reliable.
Beyond that, the instinctual stackings have a certain "drive" or "energy" that is inherently reminiscent of said IEs, which can (and often does) lead to mistypings.
The revolutionary and transformational "force" of Sx/So seems like Se valuing/ego by default.
The people-pleasing, sociable nature of So/Sx seems like Fe valuing/ego by default.
Etc.
A lot of clients of PUA guys are Gamma NT.
Most PUA guys are Aggressors who teach the Gamma NTs how to be more proactive and aggressor-like basically.
Those Gamma NTs are usually rich guys who never learned how to deal with and attract women properly, because they were typically workaholics etc etc.
In that way, the PUA business can be surprisingly lucrative.
I have this little insider-joke-theory, that Se lead people tend to roam the world so much, going through many relationships and so forth, because their Duals (Ni leads) are so hard to find.
But eventually they run out of time, so they either find an Ni lead or settle for something close to it (Mirage or Supervisor) or close to themselves (Identical or Mirror).
At least I see that kind of trend playing out quite commonly with Se subtype individuals in particular.
^ This could be connected to E7.
IEE Sx/So 7s (a la Russell Brand) often go through relationships like that too.
For Sexual 7s, going through lots of sexual experiences is a mental escape, with an unconscious desire for someone to reel them in and make them either relax ( seeking) or introspect ( seeking) more.
Se subtype people almost always have 7 somewhere in their tritype...
In fact, I cannot think of someone with whom that wasn't the case (yet?)...
EII-Ne can and do usually have 7 as a fix, but it is not a "strict" thing.
LII-Ne are usually still 5 fix/core (but with a stronger connection to their 7 point).
Ne leads usually have 7 somewhere, too; typically as the core type.
So yes, 7 is closely connected to and .
All 7s (core) are EP types, afaik.
8 is closely connected to > .
All 8s (core) are Te lead or SLE, afaik.
So essentially 8 is ExTx with the exception of ILE; likely because ILE does not value either IE.
Type 1: Extroverted Judging / Je Ego
Sociotypes: EIE, SLI-Te, ILI, IEI, LSE, LIE (SEI, ESE)
Type 2: Extroverted Feeling / Ego , Ethical (leaning Extrovert)
Sociotypes: ESE, EIE, SEI-Fe, IEI-Fe
Type 3: Business Logic valuing Extrovert
Sociotypes: SEE, LIE, IEE, LSE
Type 4: Introverted Feeling > Introverted Intuition , Ethical (leaning Introvert)
Sociotypes: ESI, EII, IEE-Fi, IEI
Type 5: Introverted Logic > Weak Extroverted Sensing , Logical Introvert
Sociotypes: LII, ILI
Type 6: Universal
Sociotypes: all
Type 7: Extroverted Perceiving / Pe Lead
Sociotypes: ILE, SLE, SEE, IEE
Type 8: Extroverted Logic / Je Ego > Extroverted Sensing , Logical Extrovert
Sociotypes: LIE, LSE, SLE
Type 9: Introverted Sensing > Introverted Ethics > Weak and/or Unvalued Extroverted Sensing , (leaning Ethical) Introvert
Sociotypes: SEI, SLI-Si, ESI, EII, IEI, LII
Do you think enneagram type can change? ... There is maybe a theory for this already, and I just don't know about it, I haven't looked too much into enneagram.
From what i've seen, enneagram represents personality traits, to compensate for changes in personality, it gives health levels of a type.
But ... what is the basis for enneagram, why 9 types? It seems a bit incomplete to me.
I would imagine enneagram type (or fixes ... i'm not sure if I'm using the word right) can change over time, as people can change over time.
BTW - if this is not the right place for this post, let me know, and i'll move it, or just remove it. It may be you are looking to build a beginners guide here, which is commendable, so the less clutter the better, either way it's cool.
No problem, keep asking!
Yeah there are different theories on this issue.
I think/believe that essentially, Enneagram types (tritype, stacking, core etc.) do NOT change.
However, as you said, health levels can and do change, which can make people express their type(s) quite differently.
Also, it seems like we can use our instincts and tritype fixes to some extent dynamically or flexibly, depending on what a specific situation requires, what kind of life obstacles you are facing rn, etc.
For example, if you are in a situation where food is scarce, or you want to lose weight, you'll have to rely on your SP instinct; and you'll occupy your mind with SP matters, even if you are SP blindspot.
Or if you are faced with a confrontational situation and you are a 9 fix, you will likely act like a 9 core in that situation, but otherwise revert back to your main type or second fix, depending on what is going on...
The origins of the Enneagram are rather mysterious and vague, and I cannot tell you why it is 9 types. ^^'
The whole Duality premise/ideal is quite Sx/Sp.
It's like Socionics has mostly been built up by SO blindspot Alpha NTs and some EIIs.
Yeah. That's the thing with socionics, there's a reason why there's 16 types - why there's no more, no less, ie only 4 ways of 'interacting with the world' and an extraverted and introverted side to each, so structurally it's good for Ti.
Enneagram looks like there's more for a leap of faith, there doesn't seem to be a reason for 9 types, or for types to connect such as 9 to 6 to 3, but it's all quite interesting.
I did a test and it gave me a 6
Enneagram Test Results
The Enneagram is a personality system which divides the entire human personality into nine behavioral tendencies, this is your score on each...
Type 1 Orderliness |||||||||| 38% Type 2 Helpfulness |||||||||||||| 58% Type 3 Image Focus |||||||||| 38% Type 4 Individualism |||||||||||||| 58% Type 5 Intellectualism |||||||||||||||| 62% Type 6 Security Focus |||||||||||||||| 62% Type 7 Adventurousness |||||||||||||| 58% Type 8 Aggressiveness |||||||||||||||| 62% Type 9 Calmness |||||||||||||||| 62%
type score type behavior motivation 5 15 I must be knowledgeable to survive. 6 15 I must be secure and safe to survive. 8 15 I must be strong and in control to survive. 9 15 I must maintain peace/calm to survive. 2 14 I must be helpful and caring to survive. 4 14 I must be unique/different to survive. 7 14 I must be fun and entertained to survive. 1 9 I must be orderly/planned to survive. 3 9 I must be impressive and attractive to survive.
Your main type is Type 6
Your variant stacking is omni
Your level of health is above average
Your main type is which ever behavior you utilize most and/or prefer. Your variant reflects your scoring profile on all nine types: so = social variant (compliant, friendly), sx = sexual variant (assertive, intense), sp = self preservation variant (withdrawn, security seeking). For info on the flaws of the Enneagram system click here.
I'd say i'm generally in a 9 frame of mind, going by the descriptions.
Anyway, thanks for the info!
More specifically...
1w2: mostly Delta ST or EIE
1w9: mostly ILI
2w1: mostly EIE-Ni and xEI-Fe
2w3: mostly EIE-Fe and ESE
3w2: mostly LIE-Te and SEE-Fi
3w4: mostly SEE-Fi
4w3: mostly ESI
4w5: mostly EII, IEI-Ni, and ESI-Fi
5w4: (mostly, if not only) ILI-Ni
5w6: mostly LII
6w5: introverted subtype and/or introvert
6w7: extroverted subtype and/or extrovert
7w6: all EPs
7w8: (mostly, if not only) SLE
8w7: mostly SLE-Se, LIE-Te, LSE-Te
8w9: mostly LIE-Ni, LSE-Si, SLE-Ti
9w8: SLI and ESI
9w1: (mostly, if not only) SEI, EII, IEI, LII
Hell no, it's a social first system. It's entirety is built up on inter-type-RELATIONS. It's all in all focused on how people communicate and the relations they have with eachother. This is the essence of the social instinct.
The idea of "duality" and you two bettering eachother is also social.
Enneagram Types in the Quadras:
Alpha: (1) 2, 5, 6, 7, 9
Beta: 1, 2, 4, 6, 7, 8, 9
Gamma: 1, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9
Delta: 1, 3, 4, 6, 7, 8, 9
The Enneagram types in each Quadra give it a certain "colouration" or "vibe".
In that context it is interesting to note that the Alpha Quadra lacks the introspective "heaviness"/melancholy of Type 4 and "dark" aggression of Type 8; it is indeed the "lightest" Quadra.
A key feature of the Merry vs Serious Quadras is 2 () vs 3 ().
This is the one aspect that distinguishes Betas and Deltas from each other, who are otherwise identical in terms of Enneagram.
The Alpha and Gamma Quadras both contain the NTs and the 5s. Both are characterized by the "Researcher" mentality.
The Gammas are the most complex and varied in terms of Enneagram, including all types except for 2.
Universally, the Quadras can unite under 6's fears, doubts, and loyalty; 7's drive for exploration and adventure; 9's desire for peace and harmony.
It's not, as there is also knowledge where you are stronger and weaker.
While besides relations, there is your personal comfort - which people are better FOR YOU, what is SP related. And which people may you to like more and hence which will arise more passion in you, what is some sense is SX related.
> It's all in all focused on how people communicate
It's primarily focused on the contents of your consciousness and only then, based on this how you relate with others.
> The idea of "duality" and you two bettering eachother is also social.
The method to reduce problems in own life is also SP.
"Better for you" is mainly social. social lasts have no need to be seen as "good" in the way others do. The stackings are unbalances, so really, everyone would benefit from working on their last, weakest instinct because the last instinct actually helps the first instinct. For a sp/sx for example, getting better at social will make their career better, too. It's not something that's inherently in them, though. They have to work on that.
The idea of having another person help/support you /make you 'better' is social. Bonding is social. Networking is social. Communicating is social. Words are social.
Hmm. I've never met a person who is either Alpha SF or Delta ST with E-Core type 1 since I occupy myself with personal types. I even doubt I've ever met an Alpha SF person with Core type 1.
1 as wing or in the E-tritype ok, might be, but not core type.
1 in Alpha SF and Delta ST is probably as rare as 4.
Hmmmm....
so social is about gaining protection and empowerment in larger entities.
sp is about protecting yourself.
I could see how an sp would rather not rely on a relationship, because it's another person which is unpredictable.
sx/sp would go for that relationship at the exclusion of all other things, so the two as an entity then protects.
sp/sx would preserve themself 1st, but form a bond with that special one if they were sure it wouldn't harm them.
Hence the nature of typologies, always open to discussion.