IR test (by Sol)

[Sol]

I do agree that acceptance of each other and trust are also needed beyond just being self-aware.

I think nothing is needed besides that state of love. Two people are concentrated on personalities of each other, integrate in themselves the style of thinking, the needs and wishes of each other, study from other what to be your dual. Such you'll activate and begin study your weak funtions. It's like a student tries to imitate a teacher, but with more passion, deeper compassion, in wider degree, with some trance helping overcome protections and with much more pleasure.
But you need dual, as all other types have conflicting regions and a try of deep integration may to have side-effects. For example, such thing with semi-dual will overrise your 8th function, what may lead to compensation by 4th - probably you'll get more doubts and fears in polr.

> Maybe it's just that I didn't experience duality deep and long enough yet

The main problem is to find good dual girl and to establish relations. Then you may experiment without limitations.
For me, even having skills to find duals, this seems to be a problem. 90% I'll make a marriage with semi-dual (ESI).

[Adam Strange]

I think nothing is needed besides that state of love. Two people are concentrated on personalities of each other, integrate in themselves the style of thinking, the needs and wishes of each other, study from other what to be your dual. Such you'll activate and begin study your weak funtions. It's like a student tries to imitate a teacher, but with more passion, deeper compassion, in wider degree, with some trance helping overcome protections and with much more pleasure.
But you need dual, as all other types have conflicting regions and a try of deep integration may to have side-effects. For example, such thing with semi-dual will overrise your 8th function, what may lead to compensation by 4th - probably you'll get more doubts and fears in polr.

> Maybe it's just that I didn't experience duality deep and long enough yet

The main problem is to find good dual girl and to establish relations. Then you may experiment without limitations.
For me, even having skills to find duals, this seems to be a problem. 90% I'll make a marriage with semi-dual (ESI).

@Sol, knowing what you know, why do you want to ruin the life of an innocent young ESI girl? Aren't their lives hard enough already, without being married to a semi-dual?

For what it's worth, I see EII's everywhere, proper and just waiting for an LSE to come along and take care of them forever.

[Simo]

@Sol, knowing what you know, why do you want to ruin the life of an innocent young ESI girl? Aren't their lives hard enough already, without being married to a semi-dual?

you make it sound as if the ESI will marry a conflictor or a supervisor , what if he didn't marry her & she got stuck with a conflictor? wouldn't a semi-dual be a safer bet?

[Adam Strange]

you make it sound as if the ESI will marry a conflictor or a supervisor , what if he didn't marry her & she got stuck with a conflictor? wouldn't a semi-dual be a safer bet?

Yes, eating hamburger is better than eating road-kill, but is not as good as steak.

Actually, I happen to believe that there are unequal distributions of the types (because some types are more useful to society than others - the female SEI "mother" and the male SLI "worker" are far more valuable to a stable socion than an LIE disruptor, so there are simply more of them in the population), and the statistics that I have seen number the ESI's at about 10% of a population, and LIE's at about 2%. This also agrees with my own personal experience, but it means that there are five ESI's for every LIE, and where will those ESI's find a mate?
Mostly among the ILI's, if my experience is any indicator. @Sol is generous to take up the slack.

Actually, I am joking a bit here. I have seen only two LIE-ESI marriages, and I know about eight LIE's and about ten ESI's, and many of them (not all) are pretty happy with their non-dual mates. A lot depends on what they think is important in a mate. And luck.

[Sol]

why do you want to ruin the life of an innocent young ESI girl?

I'll explain the situation and such will allow conscious choice.
Semi-dual relations are in top 20% of all. People get ~60% of what they need there. Semi-duality allows psychic state and relations on 3+ (1 - worst, 5 - excellent), knowing the issues I'll try to shift to ~4, what is starting level of duality. It's acceptable. To partly compensate her anxiety, suspiciousness, narrower perception may allow her friendship with Ni girls and esoteric mess to partly support Ni. In case of Ni child she'll get it too.

Sometimes our unconscious decides what to do besides what is good for our as individuals. If I'd did not mistake in past by choosing bad IR, I'd don't try to fix such mistakes in own future and at others. There would no me in Socionics and what I may do useful here.
I don't know why semi-duality issues is what seems I'll need to deal with. Like had them several of my close relatives, including 2 generations of ancestors by man's line. Maybe this will help me to find the solution for something. Or maybe the reason is other.

> I see EII's everywhere, proper and just waiting for an LSE to come along and take care of them forever.

Maybe I was not good enough to get duality

> many of them (not all) are pretty happy with their non-dual mates

yep. types is not all what is important. like duality is not enough for good relations

I did experience a bit of this integration stuff, but, only after I already started being self-aware. Not before that.

If you had no love to her (also not all romantic interests are such), then you had more barriers. When you began better to trust and understand yourself, you began better trust to other one, reduced protections and this have helped. But you could pass "understanding yourself" step from the start to introject other's personality, like children do with parrents or students with teachers.

> And then at that point where I started picking up stuff, I also found extra/special trust was needed too before the relationship could become deeper.

To be sincere is imortant for deep feelings and exchange of info - yes. If it's your dual - she'll accept this ok. While in bad IR this may be accepted as annoying.
One of reasons why types are bad - they setup psychic/cognitive borders between people and make harder cooperation between them. The society would become more effective without expressed types. And to overcome types it needs to use types (duality).

> So extrapolating from this, no, I don't think just love (romantic love or not) is enough.

It's hypothesis still. In psychology (NLP, hypnosis) exist technics of psycho adjustment to better understand the other and get more influence on him. You need nothing special to use them. In love state you make similar adjustment in more degree, - you feel introjection of other's personality in your heart, in your conscience - this may be done just by will.

> You still need to consciously work on yourself, you can't save that work just because you have a dual around.

The main work will be to keep attitude and care on practice about your dual like about yourself, to be on one wave with her (including possible telepathy effects) - to perceive youself and her like part of One. Meanwhile to don't decline own needs, reporting, helping to feel them to your dual as you should trust her like to yourself. All this needs to overcome protections what we have generally to people. You'll need accept all risks of unconditional love to the chosen woman, remove your individualism - it's not easy, but should become easier as you'll find such situation pleasant and productive for both.
Here may help technics of unconscious adjustment, kind of self-hypnosis, probably affecting both. They should not be hard in the description, like is not hard Socionics theory. I have some thoughts and little practice of influence on unconscious of others and own. This things may look "funny", but like Socionics - should be taken seriously, they work with unconscious on its language. Previously I descibed something similar on the forum, its variation may be used to establish deeper love with the choosen woman. If someone will choose too "wrong one" for love, this may have not good consequences.
On this forum @Aylen seems to be familiar with something close. Maybe she'll add something useful to what I may write later.

> In general you don't get the real good stuff in life without work.

Seems, says your Se value Look on sunny sky, smell beautiful flowers, admire pretty women on streets, ... - you have this without work but is important to feel good.
In past you needed to train with weapon for years, now it takes a week for same efficiency. In past you needed to buy costy fire, now you have lamps for nothing. We become stronger with every generation and can get same with lesser costs. Similar progress is possible in humanitarian region.
Socionics is example of such technology - it's simple for what may do. The main problem is that it's still developed by amateurs like in past alchemists developed chemistry. In "good hands" it would be implemented to the end of previous century, not to the end of this one.

> you also don't get the relationship maintained long term without work

It seems hard for us today. We live in perverted society where people are enemies to each other more than friends. We one tribe but we have borders and shoot those who pass them, created different languages to protect our minds from each other, we use money to limit access of other people to what they need like they are lesser important than we are, etc. For future people to have good relations in pairs will be same like for us is buying a bread in a shop.

> Hard cold reality > wishful/magical thinking : p

It's not so cold. And thinking is not so magical, like was not chemical part of alchemy as it was thought in past. Part of "magical thinking" allows access to resources you have on unconscious level. That part is not a dream and can be proved sometimes. Hypnosis is used today in psychology, it also was thought as "magic" in past. The more knowledge - the lesser of magic will stay in myths of past.

[Myst]

If you had no love to her (also not all romantic interests are such), then you had more barriers. When you began better to trust and understand yourself, you began better trust to other one, reduced protections and this have helped. But you could pass "understanding yourself" step from the start to introject other's personality, like children do with parrents or students with teachers.

I wasn't too clear before. Self-awareness and picking up some of her dual stuff came a bit before adding more trust in the relationship. I really wouldn't discount the role of the drive for increasing self-awareness.

> So extrapolating from this, no, I don't think just love (romantic love or not) is enough.

It's hypothesis still. In psychology (NLP, hypnosis) exist technics of psycho adjustment to better understand the other and get more influence on him. You need nothing special to use them. In love state you make similar adjustment in more degree, - you feel introjection of other's personality in your heart, in your conscience - this may be done just by will.

Hmm, I don't see myself doing this just by will with anyone randomly What I can do by will is focus more on someone I'm interested in and then if things work out well emotionally, the rest of what you write here may follow.

The main work will be to keep attitude and care on practice about your dual like about yourself, to be on one wave with her (including possible telepathy effects) - to perceive youself and her like part of One. Meanwhile to don't decline own needs, reporting, helping to feel them to your dual as you should trust her like to yourself. All this needs to overcome protections what we have generally to people. You'll need accept all risks of unconditional love to the chosen woman, remove your individualism - it's not easy, but should become easier as you'll find such situation pleasant and productive for both.

Yeah, things like that. Making the partner 1st priority (while you are also 1st priority for them).

Here may help technics of unconscious adjustment, kind of self-hypnosis, probably affecting both. They should not be hard in the description, like is not hard Socionics theory. I have some thoughts and little practice of influence on unconscious of others and own. This things may look "funny", but like Socionics - should be taken seriously, they work with unconscious on its language. Previously I descibed something similar on the forum, its variation may be used to establish deeper love with the choosen woman. If someone will choose too "wrong one" for love, this may have not good consequences.

I'm not sure what you mean by techniques of unconscious adjustment. I once read that all you need to do for really connecting with someone is 1) pick someone you are interested in (with reciprocated interest) and get along with okay 2) after a few dates with them, do this exercise of looking each other in the eye and hold the eye contact for a while 3) you are now in love. lol

I say lol, bc I don't think it's that simple

On this forum @Aylen seems to be familiar with something close. Maybe she'll add something useful to what I may write later.

@Aylen

> In general you don't get the real good stuff in life without work.

Seems, says your Se value Look on sunny sky, smell beautiful flowers, admire pretty women on streets, ... - you have this without work but is important to feel good.
In past you needed to train with weapon for years, now it takes a week for same efficiency. In past you needed to buy costy fire, now you have lamps for nothing. We become stronger with every generation and can get same with lesser costs. Similar progress is possible in humanitarian region.
Socionics is example of such technology - it's simple for what may do. The main problem is that it's still developed by amateurs like in past alchemists developed chemistry. In "good hands" it would be implemented to the end of previous century, not to the end of this one.

I'm sure progress is possible in psychological things and it's high time for it. I doubt Socionics as it is now will contribute, too much about it has to be changed but there are some valid ideas embedded in its model.

> you also don't get the relationship maintained long term without work

It seems hard for us today. We live in perverted society where people are enemies to each other more than friends. We one tribe but we have borders and shoot those who pass them, created different languages to protect our minds from each other, we use money to limit access of other people to what they need like they are lesser important than we are, etc. For future people to have good relations in pairs will be same like for us is buying a bread in a shop.

> Hard cold reality > wishful/magical thinking : p

It's not so cold. And thinking is not so magical, like was not chemical part of alchemy as it was thought in past. Part of "magical thinking" allows access to resources you have on unconscious level. That part is not a dream and can be proved sometimes. Hypnosis is used today in psychology, it also was thought as "magic" in past. The more knowledge - the lesser of magic will stay in myths of past.

Nice utopias for now Btw I wasn't trying to say that if we don't understand something then it has to be magic.

[Sol]

Self-awareness and picking up some of her dual stuff came a bit before adding more trust in the relationship.

Increasing of self-awareness has obligate consequence as more trust to others. As you rise your self-esteem and hence become lesser anxiety. You can do introjection without rise of self-awareness, anyway, like in examples I've noticed.

> I don't see myself doing this just by will with anyone randomly

But you may with anyone. This will establish raport, but it will not be so pleasant and easy like with "your people". Also for dual pair is sense to make deeper raport. Partly you do this when communicate with someone and want to get more trust to yourself, want to be liked by your opponent. If you want something from other - it's way to get it easier.

> Making the partner 1st priority

More correctly to describe the attitude I meant is making the "unity of both" as 1st priority. Where dual is not better than you, she's equal.

> I'm not sure what you mean by techniques of unconscious adjustment.

I plan to describe a method to establish deeper love in a pair based on unconscious adjustment through imagination. Kind of "magic" and self-hypnosis, and a little of religion as part of this technic.

> I doubt Socionics as it is now will contribute

Even what is now is a lot, when used correctly. When you'll finish IR test you should understand this.

> Nice utopias for now

Tomorrow technology often seems as impossible for today. The world 500 years ago was very different. After next 500 years it will similarly different compared for today. We developed hardware technics in the last centuries, now we'll develope humanitarian technology. Just because without this becomes dangerously to develop only hardware - as we get the situation "monkey with a granade". Since XX century we fastly ruin nature and have threat of idiotic nuclear wars. Not much time stays to take attention on psycho of people and how society works, - they became too archaic. Since 2060 delta era comes for 70 years, - people will try to fix this situation in their minds, - "utopias" will alive and will leave something useful, like all quadras do. Socionics is delta's thing mostly - relations (Fi) through understanding of psycho of individs (Ne).

> I wasn't trying to say that if we don't understand something then it has to be magic.

But "magic" is this, - when we can do something and have no objective idea how this happens. Placebo - is the most known "magic" today.

[Myst]

Increasing of self-awareness has obligate consequence as more trust to others. As you rise your self-esteem and hence become lesser anxiety. You can do introjection without rise of self-awareness, anyway, like in examples I've noticed.

Self-awareness did help in realizing some things about the dynamics hence increased trust later but my picking up stuff from my dual started before the increased trust. 1. Self-awareness focus 2. Picking up stuff from dual 3. Increased trust 4. Other good stuff perhaps

Self-awareness isn't self-esteem, btw. It's also not to do with anxiety per se.

And, this is me, but I would have too much resistance against doing this introjection thing without having real desire for it first. (And trust, etc.)

> I don't see myself doing this just by will with anyone randomly

But you may with anyone. This will establish raport, but it will not be so pleasant and easy like with "your people". Also for dual pair is sense to make deeper raport. Partly you do this when communicate with someone and want to get more trust to yourself, want to be liked by your opponent. If you want something from other - it's way to get it easier.

Well, to a degree you can establish it with most people, yes, and that's a fine thing, but the really really close deep version of it with anyone isn't realistic to me. As the world is now, anyway.

> Making the partner 1st priority

More correctly to describe the attitude I meant is making the "unity of both" as 1st priority. Where dual is not better than you, she's equal.

Yes, that's well put (By 1st priority I meant 1st priority over other things. Not priority over myself too.)

> I'm not sure what you mean by techniques of unconscious adjustment.

I plan to describe a method to establish deeper love in a pair based on unconscious adjustment through imagination. Kind of "magic" and self-hypnosis, and a little of religion as part of this technic.

I'll be curious to see this.

> I doubt Socionics as it is now will contribute

Even what is now is a lot, when used correctly. When you'll finish IR test you should understand this.

I should have time for it by the weekend.

> Nice utopias for now

Tomorrow technology often seems as impossible for today. The world 500 years ago was very different. After next 500 years it will similarly different compared for today. We developed hardware technics in the last centuries, now we'll develope humanitarian technology. Just because without this becomes dangerously to develop only hardware - as we get the situation "monkey with a granade". Since XX century we fastly ruin nature and have threat of idiotic nuclear wars. Not much time stays to take attention on psycho of people and how society works, - they became too archaic. Since 2060 delta era comes for 70 years, - people will try to fix this situation in their minds, - "utopias" will alive and will leave something useful, like all quadras do. Socionics is delta's thing mostly - relations (Fi) through understanding of psycho of individs (Ne).

I did say "for now" I don't really know what's possible in future, maybe possible, maybe not, but for now definitely an utopia.

But, I absolutely agree on needing way more of a focus on psychological aspects of issues. As I said it's high time for that.

> I wasn't trying to say that if we don't understand something then it has to be magic.

But "magic" is this, - when we can do something and have no objective idea how this happens. Placebo - is the most known "magic" today.

Yeah I just don't want to call it magic I assume there is an explanation, just not known yet.

[Sol]

my picking up stuff from my dual started before the increased trust

The main idea - you need nothing special to introject. Any child can this.

> I'll be curious to see this.

behold (below)

> Yeah I just don't want to call it magic

let's call it quantum physics


Technology of unconscious adjustment for deeper love in pairs

Main ideas and precautions:
1) The border between the imagination and reality is not strict. When you believe in something and want this to be - it may to become real in some degree. This degree is unknown and may be checked by practical result. It's possible to train the skill to feel the link between imagination and reality.
The reality (in all times) is in continuous creation by the God. People perceive him as almighty loving light, knowing everything, existing out of time, the expression of absolute harmony, which unconditionally loves everyone. When you believe in something you "ask" the God to do this and if you are sincere - he'll do this. When you get the "answer" with agreement - you feel it. The power of God is endless and he needs nothing in return.
You may establish conscious link with God to ask psychic energy or other. Such link also rises your wisdom. There is no limit how strong you may unite your mind with God, with his love, power and knowledge.
2) Never wish bad to someone. You may get tactical benefit, but you'll loose strategically. Think and learn how to get what you want by only good wishes, which you would wish to yourself too. For example, if someone makes problems to you - don't wish him bad, but imagine your good relations which are pleasant for both.
3) All people are equal on the level of our eternal essences, which are beyond our personalities as humans. We may perceive these essences as lights or fires. These essences represent us as children of God, which have his main attributes (except power). Never think someone generally is below you or higher than you. So you may only collaborate with others, - if you take something, you need to give not lesser in return. You may make gifts to anyone, and then you'll receive the compensation from God in some of forms.
4) To practice under alcohol or other narcotic is not good idea. Any psychotropic meds break natural brain's function, so keep >2 week gap between them and practice. I don't recommend to combine trance with such stuff.

The method

1) Stay on a floor. Imagine like you draw a protective circle on it. Stay in it and feel a protective field around you. This will prevent from external distractions.
2) Invoke to God, which image imagine above your head, feel the link with him and how his loving light is filling you with power and pleasure. Do it to degree when you'll feel yourself satiated. You may get power from God in any time when you feel tired during the method.
3) Imagine your woman with loving smiling to you. Imagine near your heart a loving light, transfer this energy to her heart, imagine like the energy spreads on all her body, feel like she feels happier and stronger. Now get the same amount of energy from her heart to yours and feel like this energy spreads in all your body. Feel how this energy differs from yours, it represents her essence as a woman and a child of God. Introject her in your body, heart and mind. Her body sensations become yours, her emotions become yours, her thoughts become yours, - you become her, you two become as one. Feel and see the world like she feels and sees it, like from her eyes. Imagine like she sees and feels the world like you. Imagine like you both seeing and feeling the world in similar way simultaneously, like One. Now you have established the link.
4) The idea of unconditional love is in acceptance of everything without a deprecation, but with liking and good for you and for both and for all people. The surface level of love has 3 qualities: passion (acceptance of body), friendship (acceptance of soul - emotions/wishes), respect (acceptance of mind - thoughts). You should accept and to like all her body (with passion), all sincere wishes (with friendship) and thoughts (with respect). Similarly she has to accept your qualities. As places of body between which to transfer the energy/information you may use whole body, solar plexus or specific ones: passion (stomach a little below navel), friendship (heart), respect (head). Do the steps 2-3, but instead of "loving energy" get info about her body traits to accept and like them with passion. Then transfer her info about own body traits and imagine as she similarly accepts and likes them with passion. Now make exchange by your passions: transfer her your passion and feel how this rises passion in her to you ; get (the amount you've transferred) of her passion in yourself to rise your passion to her. Now imagine like you both feel unconditional passion to each other. Do same with wishes/friendship and thoughts/respect.
5) People are not perfect and life with them has problems. You need agree to accept everything in your life with her, all her issues and diseases without deprecation, while trying to love always and keeping faithfulness (all her life). You should perceive each other as parts of One, where the life and needs of other are like your own. Do like in step 4, with the idea of unconditional acceptance the fate with her during the whole life, and imagining her accepting similarly you. The only thing is unacceptable - sexual unfaithfulness ; despite cases when your culture allows several wives/husbands (they may be added to family after the agreement of the existing ones) or your culture accepts sex outside of families with some conditions, but common adultery is not excusable anyway.
As addition you may use also the idea like "With no one except me it will be so good for her, and for me with anyone else".

These should be done by both. Before the sleeping. The effect may begin appear since the next day. The method should be used regularly. Everyday at the beginning. Later at least at new moon phase. Additionally may be done also in other times like at a morning after awakening, not only at evening.

A marriage - is when 2 people dedicate themselves to love each other. Primarily, it's sacred union on whole life.

To make love easier there are marriage vows:
1) I'll have no sex with other woman/man until my death
2) I'll be trying good to love you
3) I'll be trying good to be close to you
4) I'll be trying good to be honest and sincere with you
5) I'll be trying good to understand you, to do not feel offensed at you and to forgive you if I did.

Some items need an explanation.
2th. Love is following not only from the sympathy. It needs soul efforts and actions from you, the example of what is the method above. The marriage is spiritual union, and secondary as physical. To love there is your duty and the basis for happy relations.
4th. When you are not sincere - you set a border between you and behind that border you are alone. In love everything is exchanged as common for both - the more such, the more love you have. You are like two hands of one body, one soul for both, one mind for both.

[Myst]

I think nothing is needed besides that state of love. Two people are concentrated on personalities of each other, integrate in themselves the style of thinking, the needs and wishes of each other, study from other what to be your dual. Such you'll activate and begin study your weak funtions. It's like a student tries to imitate a teacher, but with more passion, deeper compassion, in wider degree, with some trance helping overcome protections and with much more pleasure.
But you need dual, as all other types have conflicting regions and a try of deep integration may to have side-effects. For example, such thing with semi-dual will overrise your 8th function, what may lead to compensation by 4th - probably you'll get more doubts and fears in polr.

> Maybe it's just that I didn't experience duality deep and long enough yet

The main problem is to find good dual girl and to establish relations. Then you may experiment without limitations.
For me, even having skills to find duals, this seems to be a problem. 90% I'll make a marriage with semi-dual (ESI).

Well thinking about experience with dual close friend, I did experience a bit of this integration stuff, but, only after I already started being self-aware. Not before that. I knew her for years before that but I just wasn't self-aware as much yet and so I didn't learn anything from her.

And then at that point where I started picking up stuff, I also found extra/special trust was needed too before the relationship could become deeper.

So extrapolating from this, no, I don't think just love (romantic love or not) is enough. You still need to consciously work on yourself, you can't save that work just because you have a dual around. In general you don't get the real good stuff in life without work. Oh and speaking of good stuff, you also don't get the relationship maintained long term without work.

Hard cold reality > wishful/magical thinking : p