What types have the ability to hear colors, see sounds (synesthesia)?
What types have the ability to hear colors, see sounds (synesthesia)?
Last edited by Iwantpeace; 09-02-2020 at 10:07 PM.
My first guess is introverts and then Ip types. You have good connection to internal and Ip magnifies irrational elements.
What his type is? Some sort of introvert. LII?
Personally as much as I want to have proper connection to my senses. It does not happen
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I have number synesthesia. I always experience numbers graphically.
The decisive thing is not the reality of the object, but the reality of the subjective factor, i.e. the primordial images, which in their totality represent a psychic mirror-world. It is a mirror, however, with the peculiar capacity of representing the present contents of consciousness not in their known and customary form but in a certain sense sub specie aeternitatis, somewhat as a million-year old consciousness might see them.
(Jung on Si)
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Winning is for losers
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Its a complicated pattern. Kind of like a "fractal". But it follows the basic clock-pattern. So 1 to 10 looks like the clock. Also 10 to 100 and also 100 to 1000. Etc. At 12 a'clock the line bends and the pattern repeats itself. I can zoom in on different levels. Everything is connected. I can also see it in 3d perspective.
Ive seen numbers like this since childhood.
I know varations on this is a common synesthesia.
I can make a drawing of this during the weekend and post it here.
The decisive thing is not the reality of the object, but the reality of the subjective factor, i.e. the primordial images, which in their totality represent a psychic mirror-world. It is a mirror, however, with the peculiar capacity of representing the present contents of consciousness not in their known and customary form but in a certain sense sub specie aeternitatis, somewhat as a million-year old consciousness might see them.
(Jung on Si)
Seems pretty 9 - merging > merging of the senses
Who's to say that the senses "merge" in synesthesia and they don't just tend to split from one sense in the first place? People who are blind from birth tend to see sounds, for instance. Who's to say that senses are anything more than a concept people use to represent ideas? Each of them, existing only based on those ideas, could be defined or re-defined on a whim. Do you feel dizzy ever? That's not really feeling like touch sensory-wise. You're just representing the concept of dizziness through whatever sense-construct you have availible.
Also, most cases of synesthesia are from little kids looking at letter magnets or calendars and not understanding abstraction, so the association gets hardwired in their brain as an attempt to grapple with things they can't understand. It makes sense why it'd be associated with autism, since there's a lower ability to understand abstractions in general and a bigger gateway for it to develop. Most cases after that come from LSD.
Why are you using the wording "severe"? Like this is some illness? Anyway, how does your synesthesia manifest? I'm curious.
It's funny, apparently I'm not alone with seeing mostly what's in front of me with my eyes.
As for the theory of the relation between synesthesia and strength of Te or between any of that and hemisphere use. The facts don't really confirm the strength of the relation if it even exists. LII and other LSI along with me in this thread don't have low Te, yet have reported synesthesia. Then some F types had synesthesia, some didn't. Same for T types as far as I could see. Then, I'm personally balanced in terms of how I do use both hemispheres, however they are often used for different tasks, so in that sense they aren't always communicating. Yet I do also have synesthesia.
Your definition of "idea" doesn't seem to say much if you apply it on everything without discrimination...
As for how synesthesia develops, this has nothing to do with ability for abstraction, it's not about hardwired associations for things they can't understand. I have no idea where you got this really weird theory from.
What's this babble. Is this your Ne DS possibly? Or not type related delusion. I mean you are talking as if the concepts of these socionics functions and types were real things directly affecting things fundamentally in reality
The decisive thing is not the reality of the object, but the reality of the subjective factor, i.e. the primordial images, which in their totality represent a psychic mirror-world. It is a mirror, however, with the peculiar capacity of representing the present contents of consciousness not in their known and customary form but in a certain sense sub specie aeternitatis, somewhat as a million-year old consciousness might see them.
(Jung on Si)
You can sign up for this and do whatever tests they have. It has been awhile since I did them.
http://www.synesthete.org/
Types of Synesthesia you have
Battery 1 Status: Complete on 09-24-2016
- Sequences->Spatial locations
(Sequences such as numbers, weekdays or months)- Smell->Color
- Pain->Color
- Personalities->Color
- Emotion->Color
- Vision->Sound
- Sound->Taste
Movement ->Piano Scale Test
Vividness of Visual Imagery
Your VVIQ-2 Score is 4.90625
This test quantifies how vividly different people can visualize objects and scenes. A score above 3 suggests a higher level of vividness relative to the general population. We are using this questionnaire to understand whether synesthetes are better at mental imagery than controls.
Wikipedia Article Marks, D.F. (1973). Visual imagery in the recall of pictures. British Journal of Psychology, 64, 17-24.
Projector Associator
Your PA Score is -0.66666666666667
Projectors and Associators are proposed forms of synesthesia that describe how you experience your synesthetic percept. If you are classified as an 'Associator', it means that your synesthetic associations (like colored letters, for example) are experienced in your mind's eye. When shown text on a page, Associators know that each letter has a color, but they don't actually see color on the page. If you are a 'Projector', it means that you physically see the color projected onto the page in front of you. A positive score is classified as a projector and a negative score is classified as an associator.
Support Synesthesia Research
“My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.” —C.G. Jung
Ideasthesia (alternative spelling ideaesthesia) is defined as a phenomenon in which activations of concepts (inducers) evoke perception-like experiences (concurrents). The name comes from Greek ἰδέα (idéa) and αἴσθησις (aísthēsis), meaning 'sensing concepts" or "sensing ideas'. The main reason for introducing the notion of ideasthesia was the empirical evidence indicating that the related term synesthesia (i.e. union of senses) suggests incorrect explanation of a set of phenomena traditionally covered by this heading. Syn-aesthesis denoting "co-perceiving", implies the association of two sensory elements with little connection to the cognitive level. However, according to others,[1][2][3][4][5] most phenomena that have inadvertently been linked to synesthesia in fact are induced by the semantic representations i.e., the meaning of the stimulus rather than by its sensory properties, as would be implied by the term synesthesia. In other words, while synesthesia presumes that both inducer and concurrent are of sensory nature, ideasthesia presumes that only the concurrent is of sensory nature while inducer is semantic. Research on ideasthesia bears important implications for solving the mystery of human conscious experience, which according to ideasthesia, is grounded in how we activate concepts.[6]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ideasthesia
“My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.” —C.G. Jung
Oh how nice Tallmo! I've read that people who have some form of synesthesia are even the more prone to experience "paranormal" events, such as dreams, premonitions, psychometry... they can sort of come to mold together different "realities".. uh, does anyone have any experiences of the sort?
Yes, I have had many experiences that fall into the paranormal category. I am just selective who I share them with since I know it could land me in a psychiatrist's office explaining why I am not crazy, only to leave with a diagnosis and a bottle of prescription drugs, that I don't need or want.
In a completely dark room I can perceive physical touch which is disconcerting but I think it explains some of my experiences as a child. I still sleep with the lights or tv/monitor on because of it. It is just easier that way.
“My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.” —C.G. Jung
Lol oh dear, I get you! thanks for sharing your experience! So you're a synesthetic too? What kind of synesthesia is it? If you don't mind me asking? This is very interesting..
ps. I know my request may seem weird, but I'd like to see how such a pattern is interpreted in your astrological charts.. I'd be very glad if you synesthetic people with special kind of abilities, wanted to share your birth data with me... let me know thank you <3
“My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.” —C.G. Jung
thankyouuu lots ^^^
I do have a closer connection to the unconscious than the average man. But nothing out of the ordinary.
Im curious. Am i the only one here who sees numbers in space in my inner imagination. Its the only way i can make sense of numbers. I think it has to do with weak intuition.
Will post picture soon...
Last edited by Tallmo; 07-25-2017 at 06:07 AM.
The decisive thing is not the reality of the object, but the reality of the subjective factor, i.e. the primordial images, which in their totality represent a psychic mirror-world. It is a mirror, however, with the peculiar capacity of representing the present contents of consciousness not in their known and customary form but in a certain sense sub specie aeternitatis, somewhat as a million-year old consciousness might see them.
(Jung on Si)
@Tallmo
you may be lacking intuition but that's abstract thinking right there : ) I've noticed the same with my mum who wasn't much for the intellectual stuff, but all about numbers and data. she could turn those numbers and rules in images. definitely helping for the abstract types who can't even think about the numbers... she once explained me the economics markets using "boxes", how they're filled and emptied. that was very easy to remember and still stuck in my mind when I try to make sense of it
I don't think its related to Si (at least not Si lead).
IME its related to Intuition.
Last edited by Hope; 07-24-2017 at 02:59 PM.
i feel like this gets romanticized a lot, I prefer everything in its proper domain... overlap seems confusing, more like a handicap than a superpower
if I had to guess though I think it has to do with Ip polr, it would be like the perceptual equivalent of Ti polr where shits all confused and contradictory, rather than neat and discrete (maybe theres a Te version, and hence Ep version? dunno)
I believe Nietzsche most likely had it even though it was not even called synesthesia at the time. He certainly had an interest in it. The term is relatively new but the experience is not. I do not think of it as any kind of disorder. I suppose anyone here could have a form of it and not even know it unless they have something to compare it to. IOW, some of you assume you are "normal". Before there was a name for it people were just artists, musicians, poets and philosophers. It is explained in various ways in history if you know what to look for.
Internet makes the world smaller and you find out that perception is very unique to each person. Doesn't matter if we can agree on what we see because we are using words, for the most part, to agree. If someone paints you a picture of what they see you might be surprised. I know this from seeing my EII sister's art which is very emotionally based. If we could get into other people's minds and share their perception we might be shocked at what we really see. They don't say beauty is in the eye of the beholder for nothing. I find beauty in things others find ugly and I do wonder sometimes what is wrong with them. Why don't they see what I see...
You could link it to any of the four basic Jungian dichotomies if you read enough about it. Personally I believe it is an evolutionary thing that we will see more of in the distant future, not less. I am aware that sometimes it comes from some kind of injury but did that trigger a dormant gene or area of the brain... Our brains are forming new neural pathways all the time. At least mine is. I can't say for others but I have reason to believe it is true for me. This is not a fantasy in my mind, it is based on years of personal research into things like perception, lucid dreaming and reading so many stories that I have lost count of them. I personally see it as advantageous on many levels. Trust me these people I have read about are breeding. It runs in my family and I assume those who have it will pass it down to their children even if it skips some of them. My ESE sister does not have it even if it is in her genes but she has a different dad.
There is an emotional type synesthesia too which I think mine is close to as well because emotional events triggered some of it. At least that is my current idea on why I experience the taste of metal, like copper pennies, when I hear certain words. I was telling another forum member about this recently. My idea is that I may have been caught with pennies in my mouth at a very young age, too young to actually remember, and that I was caught by an aunt who was a strict disciplinarian type. I can imagine the fear I felt which might have led to linking of some sort. I actually feel I can trace back much of it to her when I think about it. I remember later experiences with her that make this more likely to be the initial cause of metal words.
I also associate people with color and can either project or associate in my mind. Sometimes both. I have done it with various forum members but I don't usually tell them. I don't know why it happens because it doesn't happen with everyone. I think it is a mix of emotion + intuition which is different from the metal taste. I can link that to intuition (knowing the cause without memory) and with emotion. Yes, I have also used LSD and if it is the trigger then I am happy to have found it but I don't think it is the primary cause.
@Wyrd research also shows that people with autism that also have synesthesia are often savants too.
http://neurowiki2014.wikidot.com/ind...ed-synesthesia
I find this rather interesting because I think Descartes experienced weirdness with his senses.
I can totally relate to the following whether it is linked to him having synesthesia or not. I would relate it to Ni too but there may be more to it since some Ni leads cannot relate to it when I ask them.In the First Meditation, Descartes lays out several arguments for doubting all of his previously held beliefs. He first observes that the senses sometimes deceive, for example, objects at a distance appear to be quite small, and surely it is not prudent to trust someone (or something) that has deceived us even once. However, although this may apply to sensations derived under certain circumstances, doesn’t it seem certain that “I am here, sitting by the fire, wearing a winter dressing gown, holding this piece of paper in my hands, and so on”? (AT VII 18: CSM II 13). Descartes’ point is that even though the senses deceive us some of the time, what basis for doubt exists for the immediate belief that, for example, you are reading this article? But maybe the belief of reading this article or of sitting by the fireplace is not based on true sensations at all but on the false sensations found in dreams. If such sensations are just dreams, then it is not really the case that you are reading this article but in fact you are in bed asleep. Since there is no principled way of distinguishing waking life from dreams, any belief based on sensation has been shown to be doubtful. This includes not only the mundane beliefs about reading articles or sitting by the fire but even the beliefs of experimental science are doubtful, because the observations upon which they are based may not be true but mere dream images. Therefore, all beliefs based on sensation have been called into doubt, because it might all be a dream.
This, however, does not pertain to mathematical beliefs, since they are not based on sensation but on reason. For even though one is dreaming, for example, that, 2 + 3 = 5, the certainty of this proposition is not called into doubt, because 2 + 3 = 5 whether the one believing it is awake or dreaming. Descartes continues to wonder about whether or not God could make him believe there is an earth, sky and other extended things when, in fact, these things do not exist at all. In fact, people sometimes make mistakes about things they think are most certain such as mathematical calculations. But maybe people are not mistaken just some of the time but all of the time such that believing that 2 + 3 = 5 is some kind of persistent and collective mistake, and so the sum of 2 + 3 is really something other than 5. However, such universal deception seems inconsistent with God’s supreme goodness. Indeed, even the occasional deception of mathematical miscalculation also seems inconsistent with God’s goodness, yet people do sometimes make mistakes. Then, in line with the skeptics, Descartes supposes, for the sake of his method, that God does not exist, but instead there is an evil demon with supreme power and cunning that puts all his efforts into deceiving him so that he is always mistaken about everything, including mathematics.
In this way, Descartes called all of his previous beliefs into doubt through some of the best skeptical arguments of his day But he was still not satisfied and decided to go a step further by considering false any belief that falls prey to even the slightest doubt. So, by the end of the First Meditation, Descartes finds himself in a whirlpool of false beliefs. However, it is important to realize that these doubts and the supposed falsehood of all his beliefs are for the sake of his method: he does not really believe that he is dreaming or is being deceived by an evil demon; he recognizes that his doubt is merely hyperbolic. But the point of this “methodological” or ‘hyperbolic” doubt is to clear the mind of preconceived opinions that might obscure the truth. The goal then is to find something that cannot be doubted even though an evil demon is deceiving him and even though he is dreaming. This first indubitable truth will then serve as an intuitively grasped metaphysical “axiom” from which absolutely certain knowledge can be deduced. For more, see Cartesian skepticism.
FRIEDRICH NIETZSCHE
"Can anyone at the end of this nineteenth century possibly have any distinct notion of what poets of a more vigorous period meant by inspiration? If not, I should like to describe it. Provided one has the slightest remnant of superstition left, one can hardly reject completely the idea that one is the mere incarnation, or mouthpiece, or medium of some almighty power. The notion of revelation describes the condition quite simply; by which I mean that something profoundly convulsive and disturbing suddenly becomes visible and audible with indescribable definiteness and exactness. One hears - one does not seek; one takes - one does not ask who gives: a thought flashes out like lightning, inevitably without hesitation - I have never had any choice about it.
There is an ecstasy whose terrific tension is sometimes released by a flood of tears, during which one's progress varies from involuntary impetuosity to involuntary slowness. There is the feeling that one is utterly out of hand, with the most distinct consciousness of an infinitude of shuddering thrills that pass through one from head to foot; there is a profound happiness in which the most painful and gloomy feelings are not discordant in effect, but are required as necessary colors in this overflow of light. There is an instinct for rhythmic relations which embraces an entire world of forms (length, the need for a widely extended rhythm, is almost a measure of the force of inspiration, a sort of counterpart to its pressure and tension). Everything occurs quite without volition, as if in an eruption of freedom, independence, power and divinity. The spontaneity of the images and similes is most remarkable; one loses all perception of what is imagery and simile; everything offers itself as the most immediate, exact, and simple means of expression. If I may recall a phrase of Zarathustra's, it actually seems as if the things themselves came to one, and offered themselves as similes. ("Here do all things come caressingly to thy discourse and flatter thee, for they would fain ride upon they back. On every simile thou ridest here to every truth. Here fly open before thee all the speech and word shrines of existence, here all existence would become speech, here all Becoming would learn of thee how to speak.") This is my experience of inspiration. I have no doubt that I should have to go back millenniums to find another who could say to me: "It is mine also!"
Last edited by Aylen; 07-26-2017 at 07:23 PM.
“My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.” —C.G. Jung
It's the same thing as why some people sneeze whey they get the shine of a bright light in their eyes. Neurological pathways that has gone somewhat haywire.
Last edited by Tigerfadder; 07-25-2017 at 01:40 PM.
I can mix things together. I don't think this is synesthesia it is just lateral thinking.
Like when my nephew told me that he was picking up berries I said that is so difficult because they are so tiny and run fast do you have to be sneaky.
Most people look me "wtf" expression on their face. I think someone could call me borderline crazy.
MOTTO: NEVER TRUST IN REALITY
Winning is for losers
Sincerely yours,
idiosyncratic type
Life is a joke but do you have a life?
Joinif you dare https://matrix.to/#/#The16Types:matrix.org
I came to remember that my mum had similar "visions" like those of Tallmo. But they were not really visions. She was a SLI and a statistician, she liked hard data. When I had problems to understand something mathematical she'd always explain me using real practical images... she was pretty damn smart. Math has always looked real with her help. Maybe it's an S thing : )
I have some weird auditory-visual-spatial synesthesia. Numbers and concepts of logical systems get associated with that synesthesia the easiest but I do also have the "more common" letter->colour synesthesia. I've had it since age 6-8 or so for the colours part, only very few auditory parts back then, and it started developing much stronger for the auditory-dynamic visual (the imagery part is vague tho') components of it from age 12, this is for numbers, for some concepts of logical systems, for some other strings of characters, for some names, and even for some words especially if they are not in my native language. Have the spatial component for calculations performed on numbers and mathematical concepts. I also recently noticed a little emotion->colour synesthesia, some feelings and emotional states (not all of them for some reason?) get associated with colours. This one seems new.
My own dull way of understanding it (-infinity)<---------------------------->(infinity) with random starting points.
Hooking one number as reference to other to determine distance which is applicable for given task.
MOTTO: NEVER TRUST IN REALITY
Winning is for losers
Sincerely yours,
idiosyncratic type
Life is a joke but do you have a life?
Joinif you dare https://matrix.to/#/#The16Types:matrix.org
do you think they're basically arbitrary hooks or is there some kind of emergent order to it
Let's say there is a calculation range is in tens.
then if number 12 is introduced I might think 12=10+2
Number 10 might serve as a hook where I start expand depending on in which way we continue. Like 10-4=6.
I think it is not the most economical way of doing it. I have read an infamous article written by Hans Asperger who described boys that couldn't bother doing basic math but excelled at abstract problems. They had similar approach as I do.
Spectacle.i10528.png
Sounds like me
https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&p...ZhZjE3ZGRhZGVk
Last edited by The Reality Denialist; 07-24-2017 at 01:47 PM.
MOTTO: NEVER TRUST IN REALITY
Winning is for losers
Sincerely yours,
idiosyncratic type
Life is a joke but do you have a life?
Joinif you dare https://matrix.to/#/#The16Types:matrix.org
Better to ask @Myst and @User Name
Harro the boy in it sounds like extreme LII/ILE. Reading comprehension is excellent may look over details and environment. Tells you what things mean in story. Didn't follow orders in school. Studied stuff way beyond other's level but failed at passing a grade multiple times.
Last edited by The Reality Denialist; 07-24-2017 at 03:14 PM.
MOTTO: NEVER TRUST IN REALITY
Winning is for losers
Sincerely yours,
idiosyncratic type
Life is a joke but do you have a life?
Joinif you dare https://matrix.to/#/#The16Types:matrix.org
I have some spatial (in 2D and in 3D) synesthesia with doing calculations on numbers. It kind of anchors the stuff more but I don't see it as the fastest way on its own to add them up. Fastest is just me feeling the quantities of numbers (with precise focus added beyond just estimating them) "around"/"over" the 10s / 100s etc and some other "feels" (including some of these spatial ones) either speeding that up or just being an extra gimmick (and if I go to focus on the extra gimmick it could slow me down). Maybe this going "around" round numbers is the same as yours with 12 being "around" 10 by being 2 more than 10? Your number 10 being a hook sounds like what I have, but I'm not sure, let me know based on what I'm going to describe here.
So, taking some of the examples you posted...
27+12: they just very quickly and smoothly "slide" onto each other (not actual movement, just spatial "feels", 2D) because of no going "around" a round number and because they are both neatly divisible by 3 which somehow speeds up the process of adding them up... I just automatically "feel" them being divisible like that and it "feels" neat.
58+34: they "slide" still but I have to go "around" 90 (round number) to get to the result. So, for adding 58 and 34 the 34 is 32+2 where 58 and 32 quickly fit-"click" together then I go "around" 90 with the last 2 to get to 92. That fitting together can have a 3D "feel" to it.
From the examples shown I really liked the last one (52-25). I found it neat how the guy had the multiplies and how that sped up things for the subtraction. I could actually "feel" it myself reading it (and how it sped up things) but I never directly focused on that myself before, hm.
If I rote learned all the calculations or something, and if that worked best for me, sure that'd be more economical... but nope, lol. IMO, it's going to depend on the individual as to what's most economical for them.
Doing it that way would almost hurt my head, lol because it gets to be noticeably slower compared to my own way. My own way I think relies on "feeling" the numbers themselves without having to break them down to digits and adding step by step.
Last edited by Myst; 07-24-2017 at 05:57 PM.
I think that my kind of synesthesia is rather traditional and basic.
I associate each musical note with a color:
E - Grey
A - Red
D - Blue
G - Brown
C - Green
F - Light Green
Bb - Light Brown
Eb - Light Blue
Ab - Dark Red
Db - Yellow
Gb - Magenta
B - Orange
Some of them are more defined, some others are more vague. But generally this is what I feel.
KEEP IT LIGHT AND KEEP IT MOVING
I have known a few Ne bases with this, that being said I don't think it's really type related at all.
・゚*✧ 𝓘 𝓌𝒾𝓁𝓁 𝓃𝑜𝓉 𝒶𝒸𝒸𝑒𝓅𝓉 𝒶 𝓁𝒾𝒻𝑒 𝓘 𝒹𝑜 𝓃𝑜𝓉 𝒹𝑒𝓈𝑒𝓇𝓋𝑒 ✧*:・゚