EII-LSE Duality Relations (INFj-ESTj)

[Lord Pixel]

My husband didn’t want those things. He wanted someone who was patient, ethical, fun and funny, about family life and traditional roles (a man is the man 60% of the time).

This is a power dynamic.

[Allegra]

Personally I think Delta rational duals likely have some of the most stable relationships of the Socion. My sister is an EII married to an LSE. As far as I can tell they have the stereotypical “American Dream” family, as you see from any 50’s TV shows.

My brother-in-law works 60 hrs a week as a surgeon and every evening cooks for the family (my sister doesn’t like cooking) and every weekend he vacuums the whole house (my sister doesn’t like vacuuming) and irons any clothes that need ironing (my sister doesn’t like ironing). And he works on the house, the front garden, the backyard and the cars.

My sister works from home, takes care of the kids, does grocery shopping, light cleaning and laundry, and she is in charge of their finances and she decides who is in and out of their small close-knit social network. Like most intuitives her everyday needs are very simple.

On weekends they do some family outings such as hiking or going to beach or a show or sports game, and sometimes we all get together as a family. Each year they go on 2 to 3 week long vacations and they both love nature and foreign culture.

Their life is all set and repetitive but peaceful, zero drama, built on deep trust and shared values. The kind of life a Delta would appreciate.

Now it is easy to see his contribution - 7 figure salary on top of all the houseworks.

But I would argue what she contributes is no less valuable - she offers him endless support, patience, compassion, understanding; she is always kind, sincere, cheerful, optimistic; she never argues, never complains, never nags, never starts drama; she naturally deescalates any conflicts and disagreements and effortlessly lights up the room with light hearted jokes.

He might be the head of the family but she is the heart of the family. She brings qualities that cannot be measured by money, and are not forced or fake - she does it just by being her EII self.

That’s LSE EII family for you.

[Adam Strange]

Personally I think Delta rational duals likely have some of the most stable relationships of the Socion. My sister is an EII married to an LSE. As far as I can tell they have the stereotypical “American Dream” family, as you see from any 50’s TV shows.

My brother-in-law works 60 hrs a week as a surgeon and every evening cooks for the family (my sister doesn’t like cooking) and every weekend he vacuums the whole house (my sister doesn’t like vacuuming) and irons any clothes that need ironing (my sister doesn’t like ironing). And he works on the house, the front garden, the backyard and the cars.

My sister works from home, takes care of the kids, does grocery shopping, light cleaning and laundry, and she is in charge of their finances and she decides who is in and out of their small close-knit social network. Like most intuitives her everyday needs are very simple.

On weekends they do some family outings such as hiking or going to beach or a show or sports game, and sometimes we all get together as a family. Each year they go on 2 to 3 week long vacations and they both love nature and foreign culture.

Their life is all set and repetitive but peaceful, zero drama, built on deep trust and shared values. The kind of life a Delta would appreciate.

Now it is easy to see his contribution - 7 figure salary on top of all the houseworks.

But I would argue what she contributes is no less valuable - she offers him endless support, patience, compassion, understanding; she is always kind, sincere, cheerful, optimistic; she never argues, never complains, never nags, never starts drama; she naturally deescalates any conflicts and disagreements and effortlessly lights up the room with light hearted jokes.

He might be the head of the family but she is the heart of the family. She brings qualities that cannot be measured by money, and are not forced or fake - she does it just by being her EII self.

That’s LSE EII family for you.

@Allegra, I agree with you. I have long thought that a healthy LSE-EII duality was the best duality in the Socion, exactly for the reasons you mentioned.

[Lord Pixel]

Personally I think Delta rational duals likely have some of the most stable relationships of the Socion. My sister is an EII married to an LSE. As far as I can tell they have the stereotypical “American Dream” family, as you see from any 50’s TV shows.

My brother-in-law works 60 hrs a week as a surgeon and every evening cooks for the family (my sister doesn’t like cooking) and every weekend he vacuums the whole house (my sister doesn’t like vacuuming) and irons any clothes that need ironing (my sister doesn’t like ironing). And he works on the house, the front garden, the backyard and the cars.

My sister works from home, takes care of the kids, does grocery shopping, light cleaning and laundry, and she is in charge of their finances and she decides who is in and out of their small close-knit social network. Like most intuitives her everyday needs are very simple.

On weekends they do some family outings such as hiking or going to beach or a show or sports game, and sometimes we all get together as a family. Each year they go on 2 to 3 week long vacations and they both love nature and foreign culture.

Their life is all set and repetitive but peaceful, zero drama, built on deep trust and shared values. The kind of life a Delta would appreciate.

Now it is easy to see his contribution - 7 figure salary on top of all the houseworks.

But I would argue what she contributes is no less valuable - she offers him endless support, patience, compassion, understanding; she is always kind, sincere, cheerful, optimistic; she never argues, never complains, never nags, never starts drama; she naturally deescalates any conflicts and disagreements and effortlessly lights up the room with light hearted jokes.

He might be the head of the family but she is the heart of the family. She brings qualities that cannot be measured by money, and are not forced or fake - she does it just by being her EII self.

That’s LSE EII family for you.

Gender wise this probably worked out nicely for the the folks you know, but even with EII female and LSE male this isn't like the consistent norm. How this would work out with genders flipped who knows. I'm sure many female LSEs marry LSIs. I'm pretty confident on that one. Especially since Si in the US has been trained to look at handy skills and such to signify whether a man is a man, and most LSI probably are some hard workers and can naturally be handymen, that plus the introversion being different enough to be interesting and the ST commonalities, yea, most LSE women are married to LSI men. Most EII men are probably married to EIE women, since they literally try and take on the task of an EII therapist and trying to fully understand EII.

[Allegra]

Gender wise this probably worked out nicely for the the folks you know, but even with EII female and LSE male this isn't like the consistent norm. How this would work out with genders flipped who knows. I'm sure many female LSEs marry LSIs. I'm pretty confident on that one. Especially since Si in the US has been trained to look at handy skills and such to signify whether a man is a man, and most LSI probably are some hard workers and can naturally be handymen, that plus the introversion being different enough to be interesting and the ST commonalities, yea, most LSE women are married to LSI men. Most EII men are probably married to EIE women, since they literally try and take on the task of an EII therapist and trying to fully understand EII.

I wouldn’t be surprised you are absolutely right. My grandparents are an example of such a union and their marriage was not a pleasant one when they were younger, but for NTR reasons they didn’t separate or divorce. Over the years they mellowed and are now living together like a couple of old friends, which isn’t necessarily a bad thing all things considered. The other female LSEs I know are also married to IxTx types such as LII or SLI, assuming I typed them all correctly.

I do know one unmistakable male EII female ESE couple and they are doing quite well, married for over 10 years with children.

[Beautiful sky]

Personally I think Delta rational duals likely have some of the most stable relationships of the Socion. My sister is an EII married to an LSE. As far as I can tell they have the stereotypical “American Dream” family, as you see from any 50’s TV shows.

My brother-in-law works 60 hrs a week as a surgeon and every evening cooks for the family (my sister doesn’t like cooking) and every weekend he vacuums the whole house (my sister doesn’t like vacuuming) and irons any clothes that need ironing (my sister doesn’t like ironing). And he works on the house, the front garden, the backyard and the cars.

My sister works from home, takes care of the kids, does grocery shopping, light cleaning and laundry, and she is in charge of their finances and she decides who is in and out of their small close-knit social network. Like most intuitives her everyday needs are very simple.

On weekends they do some family outings such as hiking or going to beach or a show or sports game, and sometimes we all get together as a family. Each year they go on 2 to 3 week long vacations and they both love nature and foreign culture.

Their life is all set and repetitive but peaceful, zero drama, built on deep trust and shared values. The kind of life a Delta would appreciate.

Now it is easy to see his contribution - 7 figure salary on top of all the houseworks.

But I would argue what she contributes is no less valuable - she offers him endless support, patience, compassion, understanding; she is always kind, sincere, cheerful, optimistic; she never argues, never complains, never nags, never starts drama; she naturally deescalates any conflicts and disagreements and effortlessly lights up the room with light hearted jokes.

He might be the head of the family but she is the heart of the family. She brings qualities that cannot be measured by money, and are not forced or fake - she does it just by being her EII self.

That’s LSE EII family for you.

that's my husband and I. i would love to get to know another EII, would you ask your sister if she's willing to have a friend?

[Beautiful sky]

Personally I think Delta rational duals likely have some of the most stable relationships of the Socion. My sister is an EII married to an LSE. As far as I can tell they have the stereotypical “American Dream” family, as you see from any 50’s TV shows.

My brother-in-law works 60 hrs a week as a surgeon and every evening cooks for the family (my sister doesn’t like cooking) and every weekend he vacuums the whole house (my sister doesn’t like vacuuming) and irons any clothes that need ironing (my sister doesn’t like ironing). And he works on the house, the front garden, the backyard and the cars.

My sister works from home, takes care of the kids, does grocery shopping, light cleaning and laundry, and she is in charge of their finances and she decides who is in and out of their small close-knit social network. Like most intuitives her everyday needs are very simple.

On weekends they do some family outings such as hiking or going to beach or a show or sports game, and sometimes we all get together as a family. Each year they go on 2 to 3 week long vacations and they both love nature and foreign culture.

Their life is all set and repetitive but peaceful, zero drama, built on deep trust and shared values. The kind of life a Delta would appreciate.

Now it is easy to see his contribution - 7 figure salary on top of all the houseworks.

But I would argue what she contributes is no less valuable - she offers him endless support, patience, compassion, understanding; she is always kind, sincere, cheerful, optimistic; she never argues, never complains, never nags, never starts drama; she naturally deescalates any conflicts and disagreements and effortlessly lights up the room with light hearted jokes.

He might be the head of the family but she is the heart of the family. She brings qualities that cannot be measured by money, and are not forced or fake - she does it just by being her EII self.

That’s LSE EII family for you.

My everyday needs are extremely bare, simple, minimal. I don’t like objects and material things like sensory types can. I have an allergy to heaps of clothing and I often don’t buy any clothes for long periods of time... I’m talking about 10 years sometimes. My needs in the food department are also slim, like I can survive on cheese and bread or bagel and jam for days not because that’s what I like to eat but because cooking for myself is and can be a chore and a half. I would much rather do other activities. Yeah my everyday needs are so minimal my husband has foregone buying me Valentines presents because he says “you said flowers are for nature and bees and animals not to be locked indoors so I didn’t get you anything.” Unlike SEI friends who eye luxury things like shoes purses and pretty things. I save our money (despite my husband does like spending it) to take frequent driving and road trips. These trips really help me to relax and the drives also help me listen to his busy chatter (he spoke for two hours straight one day!” Lol

[Minde]

Jumping in a little late here, but as an EII with experience with several LSEs in various types of relationships (spouse, child, friend), I don’t think it’s a LSE characteristic to want subservients. It can come across like that sometimes, I suppose. They want things to work well (particularly as they view it working well) and often the path to functionality requires other people’s actions. They don’t always have the most intuitively feelings-aware approach. Therefore, when they try to get other people to do what (they see as) needs to be done, it can come across as bossy.

None of the ones I have known have intrinsically wanted to control someone for the sake of the control. That doesn’t mean I don’t think an LSE could ever be like that; but in that case I’d say it’s more a matter of health and something else going on in them apart from type.

As a matter of fact, I personally have issues with feeling controlled and can overreact to that feeling. So I require someone who is sensitive to that and who will be assertive with their wants without pushing me over or around. Some of that comes from my childhood experiences, so I wouldn’t say I’m necessarily typical of EIIs in that regard, fwiw. But the man I married, who I type as LSE, has handled that well overall so far.

He has repeatedly told me he wants a partner in life and that he greatly values my mind and ideas and opinions. Right after we got married I had a lot of work and he was in a slow period so he did a lot of the organizing and housework. If anything, he was my sugarbaby, lol. Now it’s evened out a bit (though for the foreseeable future I’ll be in charge of meal planning), but throughout it all I have never felt like a servant or pet.

[DirectorAbbie]

I don't know about other LSE women, but I certainly couldn't see myself with an LSI. SLI perhaps, but not LSI. There's not that much in common.

But from what I've seen, there are more male EIIs than female LSEs. So if LSE women aren't marrying the EII men, what are the EII men doing?

Well, I know one who was interested in me ended up with a likely-IEI for a while. And a likely-EII married an LII. And an EII I know is with an SEI girl. And I know of a likely-EII who's with a likely-SEE. Then some are old and single.

Hm. I wonder whether it has something to do with EII men wanting to go fast and LSE women wanting to go slow.

[Adam Strange]

I don't know about other LSE women, but I certainly couldn't see myself with an LSI. SLI perhaps, but not LSI. There's not that much in common.

But from what I've seen, there are more male EIIs than female LSEs. So if LSE women aren't marrying the EII men, what are the EII men doing?

Well, I know one who was interested in me ended up with a likely-IEI for a while. And a likely-EII married an LII. And an EII I know is with an SEI girl. And I know of a likely-EII who's with a likely-SEE. Then some are old and single.

Hm. I wonder whether it has something to do with EII men wanting to go fast and LSE women wanting to go slow.

@Director Abbie, don't marry an SLI, either. My LSE mother did, and while they are still married, my SLI father said the sex stopped after six or seven years. Plus, they have nothing to say to each other. It's a miracle that they stuck with each other. But it's not a particularly good miracle.

Remember, "Duality or GTFO".

Also, my LSE sister married a male IEI. I guess that, since she has a more "male" personality, she was looking for a guy who was a bit softer. Their marriage is a disaster. I'm not sure they even like each other. They also are still married, but not because the IEI is faithful. It's because my sister pours a LOT of money into the relationship. (I wish she could meet an EII.) If she stopped supporting him and buying him toys, he'd be out of there like a bullet leaves a gun.

[Minde]

[...] and LSE women wanting to go slow.

Why do you want to go slow? And is this something you envision could ever change or adjust? I'm not questioning the validity of that desire, just curious about your reasoning and how your brain and motivations work.

[DirectorAbbie]

Why do you want to go slow? And is this something you envision could ever change or adjust? I'm not questioning the validity of that desire, just curious about your reasoning and how your brain and motivations work.

I think I read somewhere that NFs liked to move fast and STs liked to move slow.
But I've also gotten the impression that men generally move faster than women.
If both are true, the male NF would move a lot faster than the female ST.

Personally, I think I would be a poor example in this area for NTR reasons, so other examples would be welcome to either support or refute the theory.

[Minde]

I think I read somewhere that NFs liked to move fast and STs liked to move slow.
But I've also gotten the impression that men generally move faster than women.
If both are true, the male NF would move a lot faster than the female ST.

Personally, I think I would be a poor example in this area for NTR reasons, so other examples would be welcome to either support or refute the theory.

Oh, the theory is fine, and we can explore that, sure. At the moment I am more curious about you personally, including NTR things. If that's too private for this public forum then that's ok.

[The Reality Denialist]

There are some claims that contrary types can quite well hang around together without a third party. They can usually follow each others thinking at least better than their respective mirrors. The problem is of course rest of the world.

[Adam Strange]

There are some claims that contrary types can quite well hang around together without a third party. They can usually follow each others thinking at least better than their respective mirrors. The problem is of course rest of the world.

@Troll Nr 007, this is exactly the problem with my parents (Mirrors). They get along tolerably well with each other when it is just the two of them, but the introduction of a third party to the couple exposes their differences and probably makes them feel like their partner isn't as "on board" as they should be. That third party could be friends, acquaintances, or children.
Can you guess how many friends my parents have? Can you guess how much time they spent with their children?

When I visit them, it is like watching two lifers in a jail cell.

[DirectorAbbie]

The subjective/objective of the white/black functions.
is others' ethics/feelings, is own ethics/feelings.
is others' thoughts/logic, is own thoughts/logic.

[Beautiful sky]

In a super healthy EII and LSE duality LSE jokes light heartedly in their dry humor and EII adds to it lol and they talk about EVERYTHING. My husband and I have been known to also talk about how we would set up colonies on Mars like whaaaaat!? Lol

[Lord Pixel]

In a super healthy EII and LSE duality LSE jokes light heartedly in their dry humor and EII adds to it lol and they talk about EVERYTHING. My husband and I have been known to also talk about how we would set up colonies on Mars like whaaaaat!? Lol

It was probably obvious I was a bit frustrated in my previous rants, but........I can attest to this in platonic duality.

[Beautiful sky]

It was probably obvious I was a bit frustrated in my previous rants, but........I can attest to this in platonic duality.

It’s okay to be frustrated. I was in your shoes for a very very long time. Even after knowing Socionics so well no dual was snapping me up. I was feeling worthless, sad and overall unworthy. My husband comes from a background in mbti. His mom is LSE too and she was a corporate mbti assessor for 30 years so he knows types and knew my type and he felt luck to have waited for me. It takes time and patience.

And there’s a reason why my duality is the relationship type called storge

[Lord Pixel]

It’s okay to be frustrated. I was in your shoes for a very very long time. Even after knowing Socionics so well no dual was snapping me up. I was feeling worthless, sad and overall unworthy. My husband comes from a background in mbti. His mom is LSE too and she was a corporate mbti assessor for 30 years so he knows types and knew my type and he felt luck to have waited for me. It takes time and patience.

And there’s a reason why my duality is the relationship type called storge

Why's that?

[Beautiful sky]

Why's that?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Storge
Storge is familial love so we are a family and our love just grows deeper

[ooo]

tbh, in socionics 'dominance' is already taken by Se. Si is 'caregiving'.

I can see how a Te can be a bit stuck in their own ways, but from that to "dominance" there's a long long way.

[Aylen]

tbh, in socionics 'dominance' is already taken by Se. Si is 'caregiving'.

I can see how a Te can be a bit stuck in their own ways, but from that to "dominance" there's a long long way.

I am going to try to separate functions from behaviors for a moment.

Si is the LSE's creative function as it is the ESE's. Both have 4D Se if you believe there is function strength like that. Both types are highly capable of being dominant (able to use their will, power and influence) people if they choose to. Se is the creative function of LSI and ESI. I would say they tend to dictate more than dominate though. If you are comparing based on the creative function.

Remember erotic style is more related to how people act in romantic relationships. Caregiving is an erotic style primarily. Si can be selfish in a way that any introverted base function can seem selfish to those observing it in others.

SLE can be capable caregivers, as in taking care of those they care about and who need it. Even sacrificing their own personal life to take care of a sick parent, for example, for 8 years until the parent died. I know an SLE who did this in his early 20s. 8 years is not too shabby. I am not sure if I could last that long without a lot of outside support.

Those whose fit the concept of LSE best can act or be dominant (Te types often self type E 8s) due to their demonstrative Se along with base Te. Especially if they have a very traditional view of what the role of the partner should be or they are in management positions.

The strong Te and Se which is important to their worldview is why they are quasi with SLE. Just as there is a fine line between EII and IEI behaviors > cognition there is the same fine line with LSE and SLE behaviors in a more general sense. They don't appear to have any issues with asserting their will even if it is in a "caregiving" way at times in order to support the creative function.

Caregiving can take many forms when it comes to those they love or just care about. Not all of them pleasant. Like all demon functions it is more likely to be used in private on those they are closest to. To me Se looks less sophisticated coming from an LSE or ESE. Seems overdone, sometimes victimy (dictionary sense), more reactive and less inspiring.

Just to mix it up a bit there is a hypothesis that the infantile partner can be the more dominant in the relationship with their secondary romance style.

RSV3

My original post was not to discuss the general theory of erotic attitudes, which has already been well developed within the socionics community. But apparently I need to briefly describe the concept of erotic attitudes. Erotic attitudes describe how types manifest themselves sexually within a relationship. Infantiles match best with caregivers and victims match best with aggressors. Erotic attitude is determined based on the perceiving function of the ego block (i.e., extroverted intuition (Ne), introverted intuition (Ni), extroverted sensing (Se), or introverted sensing (Si)). As is observable from the large circle, a type's dual is directly across the circle.

The theory of subtype is very simple: that a person will prefer one of its ego functions over the other. For example, an INTj may have either a Ti subtype or an Ne subtype. I am theorizing that subtype is not discrete (but rather continuous) and the strength of subtype preference will vary from person to person.

To answer and comment and some of the recent posts:

(1) While in an aggressor-victim relationship the aggressor is considered "dominant," in an infantile-caregiver relationship the terms "dominant" and "submissive" are less applicable. However I would posit that the infantile partner is the more dominant as indicated by my entire theory (i.e., that a person exhibits a combination of infantile-aggressor behavior or victim-caregiver behavior based on the relative subtype expression).

(2) There is no doubt that infantile-aggressor, victim-caregiver, victim-victim, etc. relationships exist, but these relationships tend to run less smoothly than infantile-caregiver and victim-aggressor relationships do.

(3) Someone with a very strong subtype preference will begin to resemble their neighboring type: for example, an ENFj with a very strong Fe subtype would begin to resemble an ESFj (if the ESFj also had a very strong Fe subtype). The reasoning behind this is that the Fe subtype would partially suppress the other ego function's expression. Alternatively if the ENFj had a very strong Ni subtype, then the ENFj would begin to resemble an ENTj (if the ENTj also had a very strong Ni subtype).

On a completely separate note, I'm happy that after 6+ months, my original post finally received some responses.

Here are some descriptions of the erotic attitudes (don’t remember where I found them.)

Careful
- See other people in a caring but maybe arrogant way as if
they are some kind of "parent figure" and everyone else
needs their attention and help
- Interact as if they they are in control but not in aggressive way. This
type always acts in a caring way and expect the partner to accept
this care without rebellion
- Has an openly "patronizing" subtype and a subtype that applies
"care" indirectly
- Hates signs of aggression in themself
- Has "I know what is best for you" attitude

Aggressor
- Sometimes is openly arrogant and aggressive and expects complete
mental submittal from others
- Sometimes has a very victim like look and uses indirect means to
control the partner. In the "heart" is as aggressive and control
oriented as the openly aggressive version. Can turn openly
aggressive if the "victim" refuses to submit to indirect
control.
- Hates signs of weakness in themself
- Has "I am in control" attitude

Victim
- Can project either a submissive or arrogant view of themselves
- The openly submissive version never questions the partners
control but expects the partner to "show the way" in all aspects
of the relationship or interaction
- The arrogant version looks aggressive and always challenges people
but the true meaning of this behavior is to find an aggressor who
is stronger than the victim themself. This type can never be "tamed"
but the partner has to "apply force" at all times to keep the
arrogant victim under control
- Hates signs of weakness in others
- Has "I want you to control me (if you can)" attitude

Infantile
- Can be openly childlike/dreamer/detached or more formal looking with an "inner child"
- Has lots of needs and can be selfish (like a child) and expects
the partner to totally adapt to this behavior
- Can be openly needy for loving and care
- On the other hand can be openly rebellious against care and
need a lot of "right kind of" attention
- Doesn't want the partner to directly control but instead set loose
"boundaries" and safe guards within which it is safe to play and have fun
- Hates signs of aggression or indifference in others
- Has "I want you to be my friend and guardian angel" attitude

So what happens when the LSE does not have a partner that doesn't just accept his "care" and "I know best" attitude without rebellion? Some just lose it... They think they know what's best and that is final and confirmed. That can come off as dominant. I believe that if the LSE is dominant it is because the EII allows it at least according to how the theory is written. It is expected the EII will just lay down, let them tell them what is best for them. It is all smooth until the EII, or whoever, questions it. I don't find this to be the case with SLE. Maybe they just don't mind rebellion from their partner so much. They even enjoy it a bit. Since it adds some spice and keeps them on their toes.

http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...Romance-Styles

Edit: I am not promoting the secondary romance style ftr. I just find it does blur the lines more.

[ooo]

@Aylen

(1) While in an aggressor-victim relationship the aggressor is considered "dominant," in an infantile-caregiver relationship the terms "dominant" and "submissive" are less applicable. However I would posit that the infantile partner is the more dominant as indicated by my entire theory (i.e., that a person exhibits a combination of infantile-aggressor behavior or victim-caregiver behavior based on the relative subtype expression).


(3) Someone with a very strong subtype preference will begin to resemble their neighboring type: for example, an ENFj with a very strong Fe subtype would begin to resemble an ESFj (if the ESFj also had a very strong Fe subtype). The reasoning behind this is that the Fe subtype would partially suppress the other ego function's expression.Alternatively if the ENFj had a very strong Ni subtype, then the ENFj would begin to resemble an ENTj (if the ENTj also had a very strong Ni subtype).

I've read these things before, and I can relate. In my current close relationship with 2 caregivers, it's me to be kind of aggressive, in the sense that I seem to lead the emotional atmosphere of the relationship, while the 2 caregivers tend to second my every whim, or act passive-aggressive when something doesn't go as they wish.

Yes, I can see well how quasis can resemble each other, I can see the demonstrative over-taking the creative... but the more I am in contact with Te types, the more I see how sweet and un-imposing they really are, which is something that makes me doubt the whole "dominant" thingy.


( all of this from a non-erotic pov)

[The Reality Denialist]

Te and machines.


I tend to have little interests in actual machines as I rather abstract functionality. The funny result from that from there is the combination view of things. Makes me quite unique at troubleshooting computers. Hopping between processes but I have no desire to become good at 3D modelling or such. I have seen Te creatives fussing about book keeping programs. Sounds boring and make me want fork the process.

[Lord Pixel]

So what happens when the LSE does not have a partner that doesn't just accept his "care" and "I know best" attitude without rebellion? Some just lose it... They think they know what's best and that is final and confirmed. That can come off as dominant. I believe that if the LSE is dominant it is because the EII allows it at least according to how the theory is written. It is expected the EII will just lay down, let them tell them what is best for them. It is all smooth until the EII, or whoever, questions it. I don't find this to be the case with SLE. Maybe they just don't mind rebellion from their partner so much. They even enjoy it a bit. Since it adds some spice and keeps them on their toes.

http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...Romance-Styles

Edit: I am not promoting the secondary romance style ftr. I just find it does blur the lines more.

Aggressor
- Sometimes is openly arrogant and aggressive and expects complete
mental submittal from others
- Sometimes has a very victim like look and uses indirect means to
control the partner. In the "heart" is as aggressive and control
oriented as the openly aggressive version. Can turn openly
aggressive if the "victim" refuses to submit to indirect
control.
- Hates signs of weakness in themself
- Has "I am in control" attitude

This sounds like the same you say for LSE. Actually amplified because Se is valued.

[Aylen]

This sounds like the same you say for LSE. Actually amplified because Se is valued.

Quasi-identicals.

The dynamic doesn't seem as weird to me in an SLE.

Probably due to this little bit:

- Hates signs of weakness in themself

- Hates signs of weakness in others

It also just occurred to me that the LSE would rather control the physical aspects and the SLE the mental aspects due to the creative functions. I will have to think about that more.

Conquerors: SLE (ESTp) LSI (ISTj)

These are assertive types who do not flinch at their own sexuality. They will express their own desire without reservation. They are won over by direct shows of submission (only after feeling that they have earned it). He will be insulted if his romantic interest gives him his title without question, and bored if the fight is too easily won. He, like the Pseudo-Aggressor and the Challenger, is questing to find his equal. Someone he can play his almost sadistic games with without "breaking."


Challengers/Trophies: EIE (ENFj) IEI (INFp)

These are the types who unconsciously throw a "gauntlet" down for their opponents. They know on an almost subliminal level exactly who they are looking for, and anyone who does not fit the bill will be subjected to a rather flakey, hot-cold game of courting tag. As a result, they may appear (both to others and to themselves) rather amorphous and can take on qualities of the other romantic attitudes, depending on the situation and who they are "challenging."


They may, for example, give the victim half his aggressor, the psuedo-aggressor a little victim, the caregiver a bit of his child, etc. They react best, however, to those who do not "break" as a result of their games, but grant them a level of autonomy. Healthy examples of this type will have a sense of self-esteem, and may think of themselves as the "prize" that will be given only to the rightful owner.

[Lord Pixel]

Quasi-identicals.

The dynamic doesn't seem as weird to me in an SLE.

Probably due to this little bit:

- Hates signs of weakness in themself

- Hates signs of weakness in others

Why does that make it seem less weird? Can you elaborate on that?

[Aylen]

Why does that make it seem less weird? Can you elaborate on that?

Just that it makes sense that SLE do not like signs of weakness in themselves and that IEI do not like signs of weakness in others. It makes the dynamic seem less weird to me and compatible. IEI do tend to tolerate their own weaknesses better than they tolerate the weaknesses of others (romantically) and vice versa for the SLE in a romantic sense. I think the LSE/EII is also compatible according to the following.



This is the LSE/EII

Pseudo-Caregivers/Students: IEE (ENFp) EII (INFj)

These are types who exhibit paternal/maternal tendencies towards others in their everyday lives and may thus carry over these notions and temperaments into their romantic life. These types habitually attempt to give their partner what he/she "needs" (or what they believe they need). As a result, they may become drained by lack of attendance to their own needs and desires. In a partner, they are searching for a combination of strength and gentleness.

Teachers: LSE (ESTj) SLI (ISTp)

If I were to describe this type's approach to love, it would be "serious." He approaches his love interest almost with the intention to "teach." This can quite possibly rub the object of his affection in the wrong way, possibly interpreted as condescension. Like the childlike type, he may tend to live "outside sexuality" and may have to intellectualize it in order to be comfortable. He is looking for a worthy pupil.

[Lord Pixel]

Just that it makes sense that SLE do not like signs of weakness in themselves and that IEI do not like signs of weakness in others. It makes the dynamic seem less weird to me and compatible. IEI do tend to tolerate their own weaknesses better than they tolerate the weaknesses of others (romantically) and vice versa for the SLE in a romantic sense.

Ok yea makes sense.

[Sol]

Just that it makes sense that SLE do not like signs of weakness in themselves and that IEI do not like signs of weakness in others.

no one likes weakness in no one. types differ in what weakness annoy more

> IEI do tend to tolerate their own weaknesses better than they tolerate the weaknesses of others

also it's common for anyone to be more indulgent to themselves than to most others, excluding mb very close people

> He approaches his love interest almost with the intention to "teach."

the main intention is to love and to be loved. to get mutual care - emotional, physical, intellectual
to teach in the forum of caring by advices, mostly in T-S regions

> This can quite possibly rub the object of his affection in the wrong way, possibly interpreted as condescension.

condescension is common part of caring motivation. not LSE specifics
all types tend to care about others in own strong regions

> Like the childlike type, he may tend to live "outside sexuality" and may have to intellectualize it in order to be comfortable.

S types are not indifferent to sexuality. especially Si seeking for physical pleasure. we have conscious stable passion and have no doubts to show this.

on Socionics related sources you may meet a lot of strange and baseless from theory point texts. that was the example

without me here - the texts alike above will be in your heads without competent criticism. you'll be fooling each other and to live in fantasies about the types. the similar will be with the types of concrete people, including your own in profiles

and it's to where this forum and alike lead people as are full of flooders which never studed normal typology sources and more play in typology than use it as should

[Beautiful sky]

This sounds like the same you say for LSE. Actually amplified because Se is valued.

If you have any doubts come live with us and see how caring and independent my husband is

[Aylen]

If you have any doubts come live with us and see how caring and independent my husband is

This is a sign of a healthy relationship regardless of types. I am happy for you. <3

[Beautiful sky]

This is a sign of a healthy relationship regardless of types. I am happy for you. <3

[The Reality Denialist]

As it is usually said Se in ego prefers to have shadow leader qualities (marshal). It is the LSE who is the director.

[Aylen]

As it is usually said Se in ego prefers to have shadow leader qualities (marshal). It is the LSE who is the director.

"Usually, LSE sees when someone cannot do a task, then he takes it over and does it himself, meanwhile in detail showing and explaining how it needs to be done. (LSE in contrast to SLE does not teach others "how to live" - he teaches them "how to do" and accomplish various tasks and matters.)"

http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...Stratiyevskaya

[The Reality Denialist]

"Usually, LSE sees when someone cannot do a task, then he takes it over and does it himself, meanwhile in detail showing and explaining how it needs to be done. (LSE in contrast to SLE does not teach others "how to live" - he teaches them "how to do" and accomplish various tasks and matters.)"

http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...Stratiyevskaya

Yes, lol, I have similar aspects in myself (benefit). This is not about the concrete way of doing things but rather nitpicking symbols and logic behind it so it does not throw away the procedural meaning.

[Minde]

@Aylen I love how thoughtful and detailed your input is. I also like how you intuitively tie things together.

[Lord Pixel]

@Aylen I love how thoughtful and detailed your input is. I also like how you intuitively tie things together.

Yea I know she used to type SEE but I get IEE from her.

[Aylen]

Yea I know she used to type SEE but I get IEE from her.

Me? I have never typed either.

*I did have SLE in my TIM for a few months. I have never put my self type in it except for enneagram.