EII-LSE Duality Relations (INFj-ESTj)

[Minde]

Among not close or familiar people LSE often play Fe-image "all is ok" part of what mb depreciation of problems, including through joking.

Yes.

seems you were lucky to communicate with E-1 version

Do you think other E types (of LSE) do not lecture?

To me it just comes off as tantrumy hatefulness

Right.

[Sol]

Do you think other E types (of LSE) do not lecture?

In case there is the common conjuction of lecturing and anger, apprehension: criticism, trying to do better, giving advices, - points to E-1. Common lecturing in good or neutral mood points to other E-type.

[Lord Pixel]

@Minde
Yea lecturing too I agree, I've witnessed what you describe here especially about the eye-rolling call for help.
@Sol
I think that Fe image is also heightened in the E-3 LSE, while some other LSEs could appear more anxious instead of "everything is good."

[Sol]

I think that Fe image is also heightened in the E-3 LSE, while some other LSEs could appear more anxious instead of "everything is good."

Role function is often used to make good image for not familiar people or to impress an auditory. Some LSE may to be _more_ anxious, but they use role function similarly.
Also when you feel good - there is more of the force (and a wish) to use superego functions. So Fe can be supressed or expressed non-naturally because a man is tired or in bad mood, not only in relaxed conditions.

[Lord Pixel]

I am going to tell this ESTj girl plain and simple. If things do not work out between her and her man she has my facebook and my number, I'll take her to this resturant we talkd about. I have nothing to lose since I will never see her again. To me it's worth it because I feel an effortless attraction there. It's so natural that when I actually TRY anything that's not really me with her it seems like she notices and is not impressed, but when I just go with my gut she usually reacts quickly and positively, it's like I am almost being demanded to stay myself, and that is an awesome feeling.

[DirectorAbbie]

Hello, I have been summoned. What is the question? Do I need to read the whole thread?

How to get an LSE woman to like you?
"Just hang around her as much as you can."
This is good advice.
And I'd say don't make it clear that you hope it will be more. Let her get attached to you first.
If you come on too strong, she might not push you away, but it would show her that she doesn't need to contribute much to keep your interest and won't be as emotionally invested.

[DirectorAbbie]

Being playful doesn't mean she's not LSE. LSEs are sometimes playful. We do value Ne, after all.

[Lord Pixel]

Being playful doesn't mean she's not LSE. LSEs are sometimes playful. We do value Ne, after all.

Thank you exactly.

And she seems LSE because she seems Te first, but likes playful Ne. I imagine she wants me to stay around her at work because she has told me I help make her job less boring. In a playfully arrogant way she has said "You are here to entertain me."
When she catches me slacking on the job she's quick to say "Stay on top of it!" And when she deals with customers she has a very neutral and calmly sure and assertive voice. This is actually what caught my attention, she forcefully but calmly demanded customers move out of her way, and my first words to her were teasing on her being mean to them lol. She quickly denied and then boom we just joked the entire time.

Also when I tease her she playfully hits me or just bumps into me with a silent smile, and those moments are like a nice silent connection between us, like I get her or or something, perhaps it's her little Fi being touched.It seems like me teasing her is a guilty pleasure lol a playful weakness perhaps. And i love it. I also agree with the advice of not coming on too strong, I don't want to make it seem like she doesn't have to participate for this thing to work.

And playfully touching I mean like she has grabbed my bicep to say hi to me, like a light squeeze, and she has slapped my chest when I make her laugh.

I have also noticed like when I come around her work area during work and tease that I'm only there for something else and not there to see her, she acts playfully offended. But one time I said I was there to see someone else and even though she had a smile on her face she looked like she thought I was really being mean and her friend asked me why I was so mean. I thought to myself, if she has a boyfriend and indeed doesn't like me, she wouldn't care, but she looked like she cared, and that made me feel like I had a chance.

Also my seasonal job with her has ended and I told her I would apply to the job across the street, she said I should, she'll be there, not sure if I should read into her mentioning that she'll be there, but I just took it as a sign that she likes my company.
@Adam Strange Unfortunately I did not say anything along the lines of wanting to get with her. I said my goodbye and she said hers and it was very impersonal and she just told me to hit her up on social media. It made me sad that it was so impersonal, but I had to remind myself that perhaps it's just that she's LSE and I wasn't gonna get some emotional goodbye lol. I have an opportunity to meet her again at another job so perhaps I can hang around her as much as I can. Maybe I should have provided the emotion in the goodbye and said I was gonna miss her, in a playful but intentional way. And yea I think she is aware that we click. I wonder how she sees me in her head since she has a bf, perhaps a fun to be around brother? And that's interesting you said ask her to go to church, it's like you read my future plans or something. Thanks for the encouragement.

Main reason I didn't not bring up my interest to her was because I told my LSE friend (who doesn't know about types and doesn't know the type of the girl) that I wanted to tell this girl who has a boyfriend that if she ever ends up single we should go out. Funny enough he told me, put yourself in the other guys shoes, would you want someone saying that to your girlfriend, have some respect for her relationship, don't do it, and if she leaves him for you she will leave you for someone else. And he managed to convince me. *sigh*

I agree, LSE women do not grow on trees, the only other one I know, another mananger at my other job funny enough lol, is old enough to be my mom lol. She also found me funny when we first met.

Thank you guys , I did not expect any responses but your responses helped give me more things to think about moving forward.

[Adam Strange]

Thank you exactly.

And she seems LSE because she seems Te first, but likes playful Ne. I imagine she wants me to stay around her at work because she has told me I help make her job less boring. In a playfully arrogant way she has said "You are here to entertain me."
When she catches me slacking on the job she's quick to say "Stay on top of it!" And when she deals with customers she has a very neutral and calmly sure and assertive voice. This is actually what caught my attention, she forcefully but calmly demanded customers move out of her way, and my first words to her were teasing on her being mean to them lol. She quickly denied and then boom we just joked the entire time.

Also when I tease her she playfully hits me or just bumps into me with a silent smile, and those moments are like a nice silent connection between us, like I get her or or something, perhaps it's her little Fi being touched.It seems like me teasing her is a guilty pleasure lol a playful weakness perhaps. And i love it. I also agree with the advice of not coming on too strong, I don't want to make it seem like she doesn't have to participate for this thing to work.

And playfully touching I mean like she has grabbed my bicep to say hi to me, like a light squeeze, and she has slapped my chest when I make her laugh.

I have also noticed like when I come around her work area during work and tease that I'm only there for something else and not there to see her, she acts playfully offended. But one time I said I was there to see someone else and even though she had a smile on her face she looked like she thought I was really being mean and her friend asked me why I was so mean. I thought to myself, if she has a boyfriend and indeed doesn't like me, she wouldn't care, but she looked like she cared, and that made me feel like I had a chance.

Also my seasonal job with her has ended and I told her I would apply to the job across the street, she said I should, she'll be there, not sure if I should read into her mentioning that she'll be there, but I just took it as a sign that she likes my company.
@Adam Strange Unfortunately I did not say anything along the lines of wanting to get with her. I said my goodbye and she said hers and it was very impersonal and she just told me to hit her up on social media. It made me sad that it was so impersonal, but I had to remind myself that perhaps it's just that she's LSE and I wasn't gonna get some emotional goodbye lol. I have an opportunity to meet her again at another job so perhaps I can hang around her as much as I can. Maybe I should have provided the emotion in the goodbye and said I was gonna miss her, in a playful but intentional way. And yea I think she is aware that we click. I wonder how she sees me in her head since she has a bf, perhaps a fun to be around brother? And that's interesting you said ask her to go to church, it's like you read my future plans or something. Thanks for the encouragement.

Main reason I didn't not bring up my interest to her was because I told my LSE friend (who doesn't know about types and doesn't know the type of the girl) that I wanted to tell this girl who has a boyfriend that if she ever ends up single we should go out. Funny enough he told me, put yourself in the other guys shoes, would you want someone saying that to your girlfriend, have some respect for her relationship, don't do it, and if she leaves him for you she will leave you for someone else. And he managed to convince me. *sigh*

I agree, LSE women do not grow on trees, the only other one I know, another mananger at my other job funny enough lol, is old enough to be my mom lol. She also found me funny when we first met.

Thank you guys , I did not expect any responses but your responses helped give me more things to think about moving forward.

@Lord Pixel, I'm sorry I didn't see this earlier.

I think you should ignore the advice you got from the guy who said "How would you like to have someone saying that to your GF?" The LSE has a clear (but faulty) idea of her relationships in her head, and she isn't going to be swayed by someone's argument if she doesn't agree with it. So the worst you can do is strike out. But, you can do better.

I know five married LSE's.

1. My LSE sister. She had a childhood crush on my IEI buddy, and when he dropped out of college and was living in his parent's basement, she went over and proposed to him. He refused. She gave him one month to think about it, and told him after that, she'd never ask him again. On day 25 he rode his bike over to my parent's house and agreed to marry her. They have been pretty miserable ever since.
Moral of the story: LSE's might know what they want, but often don't know what's good for them.

2. My millionaire LSE buddy. In HS, he was struggling but had never gone on a date. He double dated once with a friend of his, his date was an EII, she chose him and that was the end of his freedom. He turned his life around and is now very wealthy.
Moral: Duals are very good for you.

3. My LII sister married an LSE guy. He came into her store one day with a buddy and they were dancing to the Muzak, and she mistook him for an ESE and went after him big time. He was already married with kids, but the marriage was unhappy. He decided to divorce his wife and marry my sister, and they have a mixed happy/frustrating marriage now. But he (the LSE) is faithful and is determined to make it work.
Moral: LSE's prefer sex with Infantiles. No question. They are perfectly capable of choosing the wrong Infantile.

4. My LSE mother married my SLI father in college. He was in law school, she was an immigrant's daughter. They went on a bus outing and she lit a cigarette, and he said "What? You smoke?" and she said "Yes, and I drink, too!" It evidently impressed him, since he was looking for a strong woman. I asked my father why he married my mother, and he said, "She made me get married." I overheard my parents talking once about an incident that happened before they were married, where a guy my mother knew told her at a party that he was going to steal her away from my father, and she just laughed at him. Their marriage has endured, but they aren't exactly as happy with each other as they could be.
Moral: An LSE can think she knows what she wants, but she's capable of choosing non-optimum solutions.

5. An LSE guy I work with. He's married, but not to his dual. Instead, there is a female EII (CFO) whose office is next to his and who is presently going through a divorce. Sometimes, she goes into his office to talk to him. I've overheard them (the offices are not soundproof) and she is either hunting him or doing experiments, I can't tell. They normally get along fantastically, but when she is in "why don't you call me?" mode, he suddenly remembers he has to call his wife. She obviously has the native levers which operate him. But the guy is totally faithful. Or committed to his plan. Lol.
Moral: If you wait too long to dualize, you might lose your chance.

I think LSE's have the same problem that I have, which is low Fi. We don't know very well how we feel about things. We have a plan, and we'll be damned sure we are going to carry out that plan, come hell or high water. Even when the plan is a really bad plan.

I recommend that you go for her. Let her know that you really, really like her. Don't say you are going to steal her away; she will think you are an idiot. Don't say you want to marry her, she will think you are ill-considered. Talk about your family and the one you hope to have some day. Tell her you are iron-clad faithful. Tell her how much you respect her, and don't dress like a bum. Tell her how great she is. Tell her you really like spending time with her, and you hope to find someone like her to marry someday, and you are really unhappy now. Ask her advice, tell her you don't know what to do. She will focus on your unhappiness and will try to do something to make you feel better. Eventually, she might come to see you as a better partner than her present BF, but making that transition in her mind might be difficult. You will have to always look respectable, like someone she can show off in church. She's not running on feels, she's running on logic and is following her plan for her life, which is probably not a very good plan, but it's her plan. You need to hang around her until she sees your merits and you become her new plan. Do it every day.

Best of luck to you.

[Lord Pixel]

@Lord Pixel, I'm sorry I didn't see this earlier.

I think you should ignore the advice you got from the guy who said "How would you like to have someone saying that to your GF?" The LSE has a clear (but faulty) idea of her relationships in her head, and she isn't going to be swayed by someone's argument if she doesn't agree with it. So the worst you can do is strike out. But, you can do better.

Oh man, I have been on such a curious search for LSE info, and this response just provides that on a platter. Thank you man! I sort of lit up when I saw you had 5 examples of LSEs.
Also I noticed your sister and mom are both LSEs so I think it's safe to assume you know quite a bit about female LSEs in particular, so you seem like a good source of female LSE knowledge there lol.


Thank you for the encouragement to pursue her, there is something inside me that is excited about that, to go for what I want and being told to do just that is really affirming. I was also determined to do better and find an available LSE girl.

1. My LSE sister. She had a childhood crush on my IEI buddy, and when he dropped out of college and was living in his parent's basement, she went over and proposed to him. He refused. She gave him one month to think about it, and told him after that, she'd never ask him again. On day 25 he rode his bike over to my parent's house and agreed to marry her. They have been pretty miserable ever since.
Moral of the story: LSE's might know what they want, but often don't know what's good for them.

Your sister proposed to a man, wow, did she get on a knee or what? lol that sounds insane lol. I imagine a girl would find that humiliating if the man declined but she just hung in there, wow lol.

2. My millionaire LSE buddy. In HS, he was struggling but had never gone on a date. He double dated once with a friend of his, his date was an EII, she chose him and that was the end of his freedom. He turned his life around and is now very wealthy.
Moral: Duals are very good for you.

This sounds like the dream man.

3. My LII sister married an LSE guy. He came into her store one day with a buddy and they were dancing to the Muzak, and she mistook him for an ESE and went after him big time. He was already married with kids, but the marriage was unhappy. He decided to divorce his wife and marry my sister, and they have a mixed happy/frustrating marriage now. But he (the LSE) is faithful and is determined to make it work.
Moral: LSE's prefer sex with Infantiles. No question. They are perfectly capable of choosing the wrong Infantile.

This infantile thing is so damn embarrassing, mostly because it is true, aw geez.

4. My LSE mother married my SLI father in college. He was in law school, she was an immigrant's daughter. They went on a bus outing and she lit a cigarette, and he said "What? You smoke?" and she said "Yes, and I drink, too!" It evidently impressed him, since he was looking for a strong woman. I asked my father why he married my mother, and he said, "She made me get married." I overheard my parents talking once about an incident that happened before they were married, where a guy my mother knew told her at a party that he was going to steal her away from my father, and she just laughed at him. Their marriage has endured, but they aren't exactly as happy with each other as they could be.
Moral: An LSE can think she knows what she wants, but she's capable of choosing non-optimum solutions.

That laugh, that whole situation where she laughed as a matter of fact, sounds very LSE lol I can picture the laugh and everything.

5. An LSE guy I work with. He's married, but not to his dual. Instead, there is a female EII (CFO) whose office is next to his and who is presently going through a divorce. Sometimes, she goes into his office to talk to him. I've overheard them (the offices are not soundproof) and she is either hunting him or doing experiments, I can't tell. They normally get along fantastically, but when she is in "why don't you call me?" mode, he suddenly remembers he has to call his wife. She obviously has the native levers which operate him. But the guy is totally faithful. Or committed to his plan. Lol.
Moral: If you wait too long to dualize, you might lose your chance.

So this is the guy you mentioned who all of the sudden has to call his wife, that is the funniest thing in the world LOL. straight out of a movie lol. I can just picture the adjusting or the neck tie before the call is made, trying to keep one's composure lol. This sounds like the sort of thing F types live for lol. Having touched someone in the soft spot, and now they don't know what to do with it. Poor guy lol.

I think LSE's have the same problem that I have, which is low Fi. We don't know very well how we feel about things. We have a plan, and we'll be damned sure we are going to carry out that plan, come hell or high water. Even when the plan is a really bad plan.

See, I feel like this was something I always knew in the back of my head, seeing someone so gung-ho for their plan but not always seeing the plan as failing or not working. My LSE pastor is running and dieing church, and as sad as it is to see the church dieing, it's even sadder to see how much he is dedicated he is to something that might be slowly dieing, all I see is a man barely hanging on now with that E3 smile on his face always saying "It's possible all we need is a good attitude". This is probably a Polr Ni issue though.


So yea, I see the reoccuring theme here. LSEs are capable of making bad relationship decisions and committing to them. Not sure if this particular girl has made a bad decision, she has posted on social media how much she likes her current BF, though I do not think he is a dual, maybe an IEE, he appears extraverted. But yea, I want to give into my desire to pursue her, because honestly there was something very natural and just easy there, something very effortless, and that almost never happens with most women for me personally so it's a bit of a shocker.

I recommend that you go for her. Let her know that you really, really like her. Don't say you are going to steal her away; she will think you are an idiot. Don't say you want to marry her, she will think you are ill-considered. Talk about your family and the one you hope to have some day. Tell her you are iron-clad faithful. Tell her how much you respect her, and don't dress like a bum. Tell her how great she is. Tell her you really like spending time with her, and you hope to find someone like her to marry someday, and you are really unhappy now. Ask her advice, tell her you don't know what to do. She will focus on your unhappiness and will try to do something to make you feel better. Eventually, she might come to see you as a better partner than her present BF, but making that transition in her mind might be difficult. You will have to always look respectable, like someone she can show off in church. She's not running on feels, she's running on logic and is following her plan for her life, which is probably not a very good plan, but it's her plan. You need to hang around her until she sees your merits and you become her new plan. Do it every day.

Best of luck to you.

Lol, funny because I'm trying to see if she's someone I can show off in church. Some of these things though might require a great deal of comfort to express not gonna as I do not want to sound like I am kissing up to her as it might frame the interaction into something like she's more valuable than me, you need me, therefore she could leave at any moment and lose nothing, while I lose everything. Do you think that would come off as kissing up to her instead of well welcomed? But I think asking her advice is probably a very easy route to interact and get closer to LSEs so I'll definitely take that approach. If I got closer to her and still wasn't in a relationship I think talking about who I would want to be with and marry someday would come more naturally. I have taken the route of trying to ask her questions about herself and it has not worked lol. Asking her advice and talking about the qualities I want in a woman that also line up with her qualities sounds better than what I have been doing. iSo that's how she sees things regarding her plan and how she would have to see me as part of her plan, that makes sense, thanks for that insight.

[Chthonic Daydream]

@Adam Strange that is sweet. And this whole situation does resemble a romcom which is lovely.

Life is stranger than fiction.

[Lord Pixel]

Interacting with that girl felt like a romcom lol. Witty banter, closeness, unsureness, pull away, silence anticipation, all that vague ambiguous obvious interest with jokes inbetween. Like grown children with highschool crushes.

[Adam Strange]

@Lord Pixel, my personal feeling is that a female LSE really has some idea of what she wants, but her terrible Ni makes actually ever achieving that ideal close to being an accident. Also, "LSE" is a very male personality type, so she's going to basically act like a man. She's not sentimental, not lovey-dovey. She wants to have a family and be respected in the community, and for you to have a chance, she has to see how you will help her achieve that goal. Sweet-talking her to try to convince her of something is just not going to work.

My feeling of what will work is, I repeat, to ask her for advice and for help in logical matters. And to express your appreciation for her help (not for her). She's also going to be pretty good at Si things like landscaping or decorating her house. You could ask her for advice there. She might want to talk to someone about her hobby, which might be collecting mechanical fishing reels or something. You should find that fascinating. But most of all, let her know that something in your life is hurting you and you'd like her advice on how to fix it. She's going to give some Te answer with very limited Fi, but if she helps you, then she at least has seen you and is sympathetic. Te types really like to give people answers to their questions. It's what we do, lol.

I'll also say that you might have a very short window in which to get her attention and divert her from her current course. So don't waste time.

[Lord Pixel]

@Lord Pixel, my personal feeling is that a female LSE really has some idea of what she wants, but her terrible Ni makes actually ever achieving that ideal close to being an accident. Also, "LSE" is a very male personality type, so she's going to basically act like a man. She's not sentimental, not lovey-dovey. She wants to have a family and be respected in the community, and for you to have a chance, she has to see how you will help her achieve that goal. Sweet-talking her to try to convince her of something is just not going to work.

My feeling of what will work is, I repeat, to ask her for advice and for help in logical matters. And to express your appreciation for her help (not for her). She's also going to be pretty good at Si things like landscaping or decorating her house. You could ask her for advice there. She might want to talk to someone about her hobby, which might be collecting mechanical fishing reels or something. You should find that fascinating. But most of all, let her know that something in your life is hurting you and you'd like her advice on how to fix it. She's going to give some Te answer with very limited Fi, but if she helps you, then she at least has seen you and is sympathetic. Te types really like to give people answers to their questions. It's what we do, lol.

I'll also say that you might have a very short window in which to get her attention and divert her from her current course. So don't waste time.

Ok so infantile behavior pretty much. This masculine type and female type thing is so screwed up, but can't be helped so so be it. Her hobby is photography, and I tried to sort of dive into the topic but she has very little to say about it lol. I also notice yea Te loves loves loves giving people answers to questions, even questions that are not asked lol.

I'll try to contact her but I have no idea what to ask her advice on lol.

[Adam Strange]

Don’t feel bad. I’m not ecstatic about being a “victim”.

You could always ask her what you should do if the woman you like already has a BF.

[Lord Pixel]

Don’t feel bad. I’m not ecstatic about being a “victim”.

You could always ask her what you should do if the woman you like already has a BF.

You have a point. There's areas that suck for everyone.
And that is pretty slick looool that seems right up my ally lol.

[Chthonic Daydream]

@waddup might just be one of my favorite members of the forum now.

[Ryan]

@Pano Lou. I think you are Se valuing as well. You seem to enjoy putting people in their place. You do it excessively too and you take it personally. Like I don't know what happened between you and vesstheastralsilky. But you seem to enter every thread she is in with the purpose of making her feel uncomfortable and unwelcome. That may seem fine to you because no one is speaking of it, or because she isn't one of the cool kids, and I generally think she is old enough to deal with it by herself. But it reflects on you badly. At least from my point of view. I didn't say anything about your ESE typing but it made me chuckle. I would expect my dual to be aware of the things that make me flare up.

[Lord Panda]

@Pano Lou. I think you are Se valuing as well. You seem to enjoy putting people in their place. You do it excessively too and you take it personally. Like I don't know what happened between you and vesstheastralsilky. But you seem to enter every thread she is in with the purpose of making her feel uncomfortable and unwelcome. That may seem fine to you because no one is speaking of it, or because she isn't one of the cool kids, and I generally think she is old enough to deal with it by herself. But it reflects on you badly. At least from my point of view. I didn't say anything about your ESE typing but it made me chuckle. I would expect my dual to be aware of the things that make me flare up.

My conflict with astralsilky is, if you're curious, she has personally slighted me before. I have tried, in my own capacity, to mend fences with her several times, so yes, she frustrates me. And no, I don't enter "every thread" she makes. What are you even talking about? I don't comment on her threads about people's typings, as they are her subjective view. Anything she has to say about her own quadrant, I don't question because I believe she's typed correctly. I do hold her as an authority on the subject of alphas and even typology in general. I have never questioned that. If you want to get involved in this, you can go look at it yourself but yes, I understand it's petty drama. I don't care if she's one of the "cool kids" or whatever, if you want to view the forum like that.

I didn't type myself as ESE either. It seems Whatever I type myself as, there's always someone who disagrees lol. I've been around on forums for years and I'm not surprised much by anything people say anymore.

As for my typing, I VI as LSE, I don't think I'm an ethical type. My ITR's make sense for LSE. I know that EII is my dual, regardless of what Venus Rose may say. I know that ILI is my supervisor, SEI is my supervisee, SLI is my mirror, etc.

I take on a different persona online than I do IRL and I am a bit of a troll. If you're interested in more "real life" interactions with me, you can look at my type me thread and let me know. There is even a video. I respond to all posts on there.

[Ryan]

My conflict with astralsilky is, if you're curious, she has personally slighted me before. I have tried, in my own capacity, to mend fences with her several times, so yes, she frustrates me. And no, I don't enter "every thread" she makes. What are you even talking about? I don't comment on her threads about people's typings, as they are her subjective view. Anything she has to say about her own quadrant, I don't question because I believe she's typed correctly. I do hold her as an authority on the subject of alphas and even typology in general. I have never questioned that. If you want to get involved in this, you can go look at it yourself but yes, I understand it's petty drama. I don't care if she's one of the "cool kids" or whatever, if you want to view the forum like that.

I didn't type myself as ESE either. It seems Whatever I type myself as, there's always someone who disagrees lol. I've been around on forums for years and I'm not surprised much by anything people say anymore.

As for my typing, I VI as LSE, I don't think I'm an ethical type. My ITR's make sense for LSE. I know that EII is my dual, regardless of what Venus Rose may say. I know that ILI is my supervisor, SEI is my supervisee, SLI is my mirror, etc.

I take on a different persona online than I do IRL and I am a bit of a troll. If you're interested in more "real life" interactions with me, you can look at my type me thread and let me know. There is even a video. I respond to all posts on there.

I didn't speak of her competency, but I don't feel strongly against it to the point where I question her opinions. I know some people who type me Se-ego. It doesn't matter to me. I'm curious. But I wouldn't actually fight them over it.

Yeah, I saw your thread but I'm not sure about your type.

[Lord Panda]

I didn't speak of her competency, but I don't feel strongly against it to the point where I question her opinions. I know some people who type me Se-ego. It doesn't matter to me. I'm curious. But I wouldn't actually fight them over it. It's their perception.

Yeah, I saw your thread but I'm not sure about your type.

Well, no it's not her opinions I have a problem with. She's smart and knows her stuff, I won't deny it. But she did put me down personally. Which is what I have a problem with.

[Adam Strange]

@Pano Lou. I think you are Se valuing as well. You seem to enjoy putting people in their place. You do it excessively too and you take it personally. Like I don't know what happened between you and vesstheastralsilky. But you seem to enter every thread she is in with the purpose of making her feel uncomfortable and unwelcome. That may seem fine to you because no one is speaking of it, or because she isn't one of the cool kids, and I generally think she is old enough to deal with it by herself. But it reflects on you badly. At least from my point of view. I didn't say anything about your ESE typing but it made me chuckle. I would expect my dual to be aware of the things that make me flare up.

Actually, she is pretty cool. I like her and she's really freaking smart.

[noaydi]

Little words on my xp with duality (men -friendship-, women -love and friendship-)

1) Ive very hard time with male dominant ESTJ. Almost typed myself INFP for this reason at first. Female don't get me on, I find them often dumb (they probably aren't, just don't like the style). Pushy, just can't imagine you have desire, ambition yourself, everything need to be their way (wich become "the" way....) seem to be unable to introspect, have always right, even when they admit their fault it's for staying over you in an annoying way and generally it end with you feeling guilty whatever the subject or situation. Can't. On a side note, I don't know many, I've probably known some unhealthy ones. Because I can admire some famous one and don't find this bad vibe on them. I think that the problem is that the one Ive known, Ive known them only superficially but failed to open them about their real feeling about things, perhaps a state of mind where they could take thing in an easier and more beautiful way.

2) Ive had a really good friendship relationship with a creative ESTJ, he was really cool, but he putted not sufficient attention in some domain I was putting attention, idk how to explain. I was finding often he was doing shit with his life almost volontarely. Prob not type related. Anyway it stay a good memory, lot of laugh, lot of experience, this helped myself openning a little about stuff I don't speak often about like speaking about sexuality "like a man". Subject of discussion was really open, it was more myself perhaps that decieved himself because too much closed. His pseudo wannabe spiritual side was really annoying thought, and he didn't made goal like myself, like jumping from a thing to another without taking account that if we stopped a little going everywhere, we could make a great thing together. We have accomplished some stuff together anyway. Relationship ended clearly because I was too introvert/serious/negative (at this time I was somewhat depressed) for him and from some POV differing too much.
My cousine is a female creative ESTJ and we go along very well, even if there are some stuff we are not seeing the same way, in term of responsabilities/relationship/how we are expressing what we want, dunno how to express it.

3) Normalizing ESTJ. I only know 4 or 5 female one, we go along very well, here I can really recognize the description of duality given by socionic. Conflict stop smoothly, everything is cool, smooth, fun, not too much, not too little, perfect. It gone bad with one of my ex but that was my fault, it was a bad moment of my life where Ive done shit. If I could I would give temporarly my personnality to them in order they take care a little then take it back without any lack of faith. My main ex was very benevolent to myself, she was trying very much that I give the better of myself, the kind of better that even myself don't know. Really cool relationship.

4) harmonizing. Had 2 harmonizing ESTJ friend. One was a little annoying (too vain, a kind of empty narcissism -not the disorder, he was cool, we majorly had good time i can't negate-), but the other one was very spiritual and gave a very strong impression in myself. I still admire this personage, he have been my mentor for 6 years. At the core there is still some problem that I have with creative one about setting goal, way of seeing life, etc.

[Lord Pixel]

Just admit it already, LSE wants someone that does whatever they tell them 2 because "they know what's best" and they only feel not anxious when they are in charge, they refrain from calling this person their slave or child because it sounds bad, but that's what they want without the feeling bad about wanting it. You want someone who makes you feel like you know best and are capable of doing anything largely because they are not. Yea it's fucked up, but it's what you want, hopefully it's out there for you. Someone without a will and mind of their own that is.

[Lord Panda]

Just admit it already, LSE wants someone that does whatever they tell them 2 because "they know what's best" and they only feel not anxious when they are in charge, they refrain from calling this person their slave or child because it sounds bad, but that's what they want without the feeling bad about wanting it. You want someone who makes you feel like you know best and are capable of doing anything largely because they are not. Yea it's fucked up, but it's what you want, hopefully it's out there for you. Someone without a will and mind of their own that is.

Whoa, who broke your heart?

[Lord Pixel]

Whoa, who broke your heart?

No one. Just tired of not hearing the obvious.

[Lord Panda]

No one. Just tired of not hearing the obvious.

The whole point of duality is that your dual does know best. If you're unwilling to take them up on that, then duality doesn't even work. LSE likes a partner who takes them up on Te and Si. On the other hand, EII wants someone who would accept their sense of morality and humanitarianism as their own. Quite literally, that is the point of duality. You let your dual have free reign in their zone of influence.

Moreover, taking care of your partner is something you should do in a relationship regardless of whether it's duality or not.

[Lord Panda]

"without a will or mind of their own" does not in any way sound like an EII... EII is like, "These are my values and I stick by them or die."

[nefnaf]

Just admit it already, LSE wants someone that does whatever they tell them 2 because "they know what's best" and they only feel not anxious when they are in charge, they refrain from calling this person their slave or child because it sounds bad, but that's what they want without the feeling bad about wanting it. You want someone who makes you feel like you know best and are capable of doing anything largely because they are not. Yea it's fucked up, but it's what you want, hopefully it's out there for you. Someone without a will and mind of their own that is.

What you are describing sound nothing like Delta rational duality and whoever you are thinking of is likely not LSE at all. For example, take EII-D with LSE-N. EII would be mostly in charge of making decisions, while LSE is responsible for keeping things in order and taking on household chores. Even LSE-D male might take it upon themselves to wash the dishes after dinner. (Bill Gates for example has claimed to do this.) EII is yielding in communication, but also headstrong and confident in their areas of competence. LSE is also yielding type

LSE are attracted to intelligent partners who can provide them with new perspectives. They also want someone who will take the lead in setting norms for emotional distance, communication, and relationship status, while communicating these explicitly so LSE knows exactly where they stand. They have no patience for relationship "games" and power plays, and lack subtlety in these areas.

[VenusRose]

Just admit it already, LSE wants someone that does whatever they tell them 2 because "they know what's best" and they only feel not anxious when they are in charge, they refrain from calling this person their slave or child because it sounds bad, but that's what they want without the feeling bad about wanting it. You want someone who makes you feel like you know best and are capable of doing anything largely because they are not. Yea it's fucked up, but it's what you want, hopefully it's out there for you. Someone without a will and mind of their own that is.

Hmm, this doesn't sound...idk, normal I guess if you could call it that. I am not sure if unusual dynamics like that are necessarily type related.

[Adam Strange]

Just admit it already, LSE wants someone that does whatever they tell them 2 because "they know what's best" and they only feel not anxious when they are in charge, they refrain from calling this person their slave or child because it sounds bad, but that's what they want without the feeling bad about wanting it. You want someone who makes you feel like you know best and are capable of doing anything largely because they are not. Yea it's fucked up, but it's what you want, hopefully it's out there for you. Someone without a will and mind of their own that is.

Hmm, this doesn't sound...idk, normal I guess if you could call it that. I am not sure if unusual dynamics like that are necessarily type related.

@VenusRose, I've actually heard a number of EII's say this same thing about their SO's. Not every one, but I'd say about 2/3 of them seem to look at LSE's this way.

I work with a male EII who is on his second marriage to a woman who is a doctor and very well off. He says that he gets to live in her very nice house and has to do the yardwork. In return, he has a small workshop in the basement. He said that she treats him like a servant and they have separate bank accounts. He went on to say that while he knows he is complaining about how she treats him a lot, they sometimes have very good times together.

I only saw her once at a party and we weren't introduced, so I don't know if she is LSE or not.

It is possible that many EII's are simply built to look out for the behavior and attitudes that @Lord Pixel described, just as LSI's are built to try to see past the possible deceptions and to try to get to the facts when dealing with EIE's.

[VenusRose]

@VenusRose, I've actually heard a number of EII's say this same thing about their SO's. Not every one, but I'd say about 2/3 of them seem to look at LSE's this way.

I work with a male EII who is on his second marriage to a woman who is a doctor and very well off. He says that he gets to live in her very nice house and has to do the yardwork. In return, he has a small workshop in the basement. He said that she treats him like a servant and they have separate bank accounts. He went on to say that while he knows he is complaining about how she treats him a lot, they sometimes have very good times together.

I was commenting on @Lord Pixel's "they refrain from calling this person their slave or child because it sounds bad, but that's what they want without the feeling bad about wanting it" because that sounded like an unusual dynamic..

I am not entirely sure what you mean "I have heard EIIs say this about their SO." Could you please elaborate?

Edit: My first thoughts are that Fi doms can be very easily misunderstood, I certainly am on a regular basis, if the person doesn't know me.
So perhaps he didn't mean "servant" in like a really serious way, but more so in a lighthearted, somewhat joking manner...? Besides, I don't know, this aspect of any dynamic bores me very much. "Chores" etc. or having to do things. I am not at all drawn to such things when it comes to romance/duality descriptions. I guess it is mostly chemistry I look at.

Not that people wouldn't do their chores, of course everyone would. But I wouldn't bother describing it as a part of any pair or romance dynamic. It feels very trivial.

I only saw her once at a party and we weren't introduced, so I don't know if she is LSE or not.

It is possible that many EII's are simply built to look out for the behavior and attitudes that @Lord Pixel described, just as LSI's are built to try to see past the possible deceptions and to try to get to the facts when dealing with EIE's.

Wanting a "slave" etc. at best describes a kink to me. It doesn't seem to suitable to your average "vanilla" relationships. Seems a little extreme. So I don't know if LSEs would really want that and if EIIs are "built for that" since it sounds like a peculiar taste to begin with.

I think LSE-EII is usually described as LSE being somewhat of a knowledgeable guide/teacher, and very serious, while EII being kind, empathetic, imaginative and much better at "relations" ofc due to high F>T compared to LSE.

So yeah what LP said absolutely sounds like a big stretch and not necessarily how I imagine these relationships playing out. "Someone without a will and mind of their own" and everything else he wrote...yeah I can't imagine that would be the case for the large majority of LSE-EII relationships. He seems to be talking about kink here honestly, and there is usually misconceptions about them, but I won't go into that right now.

[Lord Pixel]

I was commenting on @Lord Pixel's "they refrain from calling this person their slave or child because it sounds bad, but that's what they want without the feeling bad about wanting it" because that sounded like an unusual dynamic..

I am not entirely sure what you mean "I have heard EIIs say this about their SO." Could you please elaborate?

Edit: My first thoughts are that Fi doms can be very easily misunderstood, I certainly am on a regular basis, if the person doesn't know me.
So perhaps he didn't mean "servant" in like a really serious way, but more so in a lighthearted, somewhat joking manner...? Besides, I don't know, this aspect of any dynamic bores me very much. "Chores" etc. or having to do things. I am not at all drawn to such things when it comes to romance/duality descriptions. I guess it is mostly chemistry I look at.

Not that people wouldn't do their chores, of course everyone would. But I wouldn't bother describing it as a part of any pair or romance dynamic. It feels very trivial.



Wanting a "slave" etc. at best describes a kink to me. It doesn't seem to suitable to your average "vanilla" relationships. Seems a little extreme. So I don't know if LSEs would really want that and if EIIs are "built for that" since it sounds like a peculiar taste to begin with.

I think LSE-EII is usually described as LSE being somewhat of a knowledgeable guide/teacher, and very serious, while EII being kind, empathetic, imaginative and much better at "relations" ofc due to high F>T compared to LSE.

So yeah what LP said absolutely sounds like a big stretch and not necessarily how I imagine these relationships playing out. "Someone without a will and mind of their own" and everything else he wrote...yeah I can't imagine that would be the case for the large majority of LSE-EII relationships. He seems to be talking about kink here honestly, and there is usually misconceptions about them, but I won't go into that right now.

I mean't servant literally, and no I wasn't talking about a kink.

Te to me just sounds like a need to control and to be in control.

I have a hard time reconciling being attracted to someone who essentially wants to be in control, of everything, including you.
I could be taking the stereotype too far with Te, but I don't think it's 100% inaccurate.

[Beautiful sky]

I have strong and consistent ethics and I don’t veer away from them neither for myself nor do I stand when others are confused and need ethical direction. I will often say “that is not good. Do the right thing.” I cannot enforce my ethical outlook as I lack the energy and care to keep pushing the envelope on people and it contradicts my introverted tendency to constric energy. Sometimes Fi creativity types like IEE and SEE can seem way more ethical and relationship building capabilities than myself because their energy flows outward but where they are breath I make up in depth. My relationships are near and dear to me and I am loyal to my core and there’s no wushu washy. That commitment to being a rock in relationships is also a part of my ethics and how I view one “should” be (a rule) in relationships.

[Lord Pixel]

When I think of LSE I think of someone who wants to be with someone they can boss around, and they can have that and probably usually get that. And this has been said many times b4 so it's not new info. But I will say, who in their right mind wants to be bossed around in a relationship? Perhaps someone without a mind, or will, of their own. So let the sugar daddy get with his little bumpkin and the cougar take care of her babyboy, because these are usually the dynamics where both agree to a relationship like that. Wouldn't be surprised if many sugar daddies and mommas where LSE, they are literally paying for a mate to lack a mind and will of their own.

[Beautiful sky]

When I think of LSE I think of someone who wants to be with someone they can boss around, and they can have that and probably usually get that. And this has been said many times b4 so it's not new info. But I will say, who in their right mind wants to be bossed around in a relationship? Perhaps someone without a mind, or will, of their own. So let the sugar daddy get with his little bumpkin and the cougar take care of her babyboy, because these are usually the dynamics where both agree to a relationship like that. Wouldn't be surprised if many sugar daddies and mommas where LSE, they are literally paying for a mate to lack a mind and will of their own.

LSE can be bossy and aggressive but I can be stubborn and persistent and do things my way quietly when I know that I am right and when I present the results to an LSE they will say “oh I didn’t think of that” you know Te cannot think of everything

[Lord Panda]

When I think of LSE I think of someone who wants to be with someone they can boss around, and they can have that and probably usually get that. And this has been said many times b4 so it's not new info. But I will say, who in their right mind wants to be bossed around in a relationship? Perhaps someone without a mind, or will, of their own. So let the sugar daddy get with his little bumpkin and the cougar take care of her babyboy, because these are usually the dynamics where both agree to a relationship like that. Wouldn't be surprised if many sugar daddies and mommas where LSE, they are literally paying for a mate to lack a mind and will of their own.

This sounds like you're just taking bad qualities of a person you dislike and projecting that to all LSEs lol. I don't know what your problem is, but this doesn't sound like an LSE at all. Maybe closer to beta ST, having a partner they want to "conquer" but even that isn't as twisted and lacking in passion like that. Also, sugar daddies and mommies can be any type... It's not an actual relationship.

[Lord Pixel]

This sounds like you're just taking bad qualities of a person you dislike and projecting that to all LSEs lol. I don't know what your problem is, but this doesn't sound like an LSE at all. Maybe closer to beta ST, having a partner they want to "conquer" but even that isn't as twisted and lacking in passion like that. Also, sugar daddies and mommies can be any type... It's not an actual relationship.

I never said these qualities are bad. I don't have an issue with anybody wanting that, all I'm saying is be honest, if that's what LSE wants, which I think it is, then just say it. And of course sugar daddies and mommas can be any time, I'm just willing 2 bet most are LSE. I mean they use money to establish a power dynamic and solve the issue of contention in a relationship. They are paying to be the boss.

[Beautiful sky]

I never said these qualities are bad. I don't have an issue with anybody wanting that, all I'm saying is be honest, if that's what LSE wants, which I think it is, then just say it. And of course sugar daddies and mommas can be any time, I'm just willing 2 bet most are LSE. I mean they use money to establish a power dynamic and solve the issue of contention in a relationship. They are paying to be the boss.

My husband didn’t want those things. He wanted someone who was patient, ethical, fun and funny, about family life and traditional roles (a man is the man 60% of the time).

[Lord Panda]

My husband didn’t want those things. He wanted someone who was patient, ethical, fun and funny, about family life and traditional roles (a man is the man 60% of the time).

The way I understand, LSE doesn't want power dynamics in a relationship, right? I would assume that would freak out PoLR Se. What are your thoughts on that? I become conscious of that in a relationship and I can't really ignore/avoid that.