Any suggestions?
ESE/ESFj Friends with an SLI/ISTp
Any suggestions?
Last edited by Iwantpeace; 09-07-2020 at 03:29 PM.
Damn! You are sweet to ask that, that's a responsible supervisor ayOk, recommendations (=rules) straight from their dual:
1) Try not to coax reactions out of the SLI
2) Expecting novel ideas and inputs will rather be straining for them
3) Logical analysis always comes paired with realistic, pragmatic attitude, anticipate this
4) Talking about anticipation, SLI is bad at that, so are you, avoidplanning and forecasts
Such a great post! respectOriginally Posted by Chae
Damn! You are sweet to ask that, that's a responsible supervisor ay
1) Try not to coax reactions out of the SLI
2) Expecting novel ideas and inputs will rather be straining for them
3) Logical analysis always comes paired with realistic, pragmatic attitude, anticipate this
4) Talking about anticipation, SLI is bad at that, so are you, avoid
huh?
Damn! You are sweet to ask that, that's a responsible supervisor ay
1) Try not to coax reactions out of the SLI
2) Expecting novel ideas and inputs will rather be straining for them
3) Logical analysis always comes paired with realistic, pragmatic attitude, anticipate this
4) Talking about anticipation, SLI is bad at that, so are you, avoid
I'd say I think this was copied from an SLI description except that I don't even think this matches up with the descriptions that I've read, let alone what I've observed in the real world. my SLI brother is very much clever and insightful and I don't think this is uncommon among SLIs, like at all, and by that I mean I'm pretty sure this is something they're known to be skilled at. if it isn't a topic they're interested in then they may not care enough to share their input but I think that probably rings true for most people. I don't think they're "bad" at forecasting so much as they just don't care about it. they're generally cool, calm, and collected. for that reason, they're great in "extreme situations". If we're taking socionics into account while making these character assessments, then why would Ni PoLR (assuming Ni = forecasting) care about information pertaining to Ni?
to OP: any social interaction where you feel the need to filter your speech/alter your behavior to appease someone else is not a good interaction. anyone who would require you to go to such lengths to appease them probably isn't someone you wanna hang out with anyway. SLIs are like the prototype for the friend who likes to kick back and shoot the shit, or so I thought, maybe I'm wrong. just be yourself and pay attention to his/her reactions, adjust to them accordingly, as anyone would, but don't feel the need to tiptoe around him/her. that's not fun for anyone.
I don't think that experience shows that SLI is good in extreme situations. Is this statement inspired by MBTI? Anyway, Si base is pretty useless in extreme situations, so wouldn't trust a SLI then. I've looked a little into people who go into extreme situations and I would say that certain SLEs and LSI are very good here. Also SEE, if it's more on the social side. Also some NT types can be good in extreme situations when cold novel thinking is needed.
The decisive thing is not the reality of the object, but the reality of the subjective factor, i.e. the primordial images, which in their totality represent a psychic mirror-world. It is a mirror, however, with the peculiar capacity of representing the present contents of consciousness not in their known and customary form but in a certain sense sub specie aeternitatis, somewhat as a million-year old consciousness might see them.
(Jung on Si)
no, it's not inspired by MBTI. I should've clarified. replace "extreme" with stressful. it's not a matter of tackling the situation head-on through sheer force of will and kicking down any and all obstacles with ease (exaggeration, of course). what I'm describing here is more psychological and internally-driven. so it's not what they can do to impact the situation itself, but rather an internal calmness that makes them sort of impervious to losing composure. they'll casually exit a situation if it's intense and doesn't yield any useful results, which is a strength in and of itself. it described a very specific kind of situation which rang true for what I've observed in the type. if I find it again, I'll post it here. it was very interesting.
this feels like a derail tho
Supervision is not hard at all. Only if you have to be very close to them for a long time. Or work together in a setting that goes against the supervision dynamics. DONT WORRY
The decisive thing is not the reality of the object, but the reality of the subjective factor, i.e. the primordial images, which in their totality represent a psychic mirror-world. It is a mirror, however, with the peculiar capacity of representing the present contents of consciousness not in their known and customary form but in a certain sense sub specie aeternitatis, somewhat as a million-year old consciousness might see them.
(Jung on Si)
Yes it's a derail, but all kinds of interesting stuff always jumps in the way. If you put it that way I totally agree with you and I think we both have a similar experience of SLI. But my reaction is that I find this very annoying and I see it as a weakness that they are unable to actually put their whole being into the situation and deal with it. Maybe they could, but they often fade away and escape responsibility. So this is from my alpha perspective...
The decisive thing is not the reality of the object, but the reality of the subjective factor, i.e. the primordial images, which in their totality represent a psychic mirror-world. It is a mirror, however, with the peculiar capacity of representing the present contents of consciousness not in their known and customary form but in a certain sense sub specie aeternitatis, somewhat as a million-year old consciousness might see them.
(Jung on Si)
Not all SLI's are the same so not everything will apply.
Don't make them sing in the car with you. Don't expect them to participate in funny group photos where everyone makes faces or poses. That feels so unnatural and embarrassing when everyone sees how uncomfortable they(SLI's) are about it. They are painfully aware of their social shortcomings. The last thing they want is attention from many people at once when they are making Fe mistakes.
Don't force them to have fun. They will come over on their own once they feel like it.
SLI's have their own opinions and thoughts - they won't care how it comes off to others and don't expect them to tone down what they say. When they're emotionally intelligent they will know when they can be "themselves" (especially when when Fe-egos are around) and when not. When you start to lecture them about tact, they can become sulky or passive aggressive.
Keep in mind that there is a lot going on beneath the surface and they will only share when you've earned it. You earn it by respecting their opinions and independence. You are free to share you own opinions about anything without worrying how the SLI feels about it.
You and your Fe are appreciated (laughter, jokes, caring attitude) but don't give them too much attention. ESE's have some kind of habit where they look/wait for a reaction and might interpret some "signals" that are designed for LII wrong. SLI don't need to be looked after like an LII and can talk for themselves. When they don't talk there is a reason and SLI's don't want or need encouragement.
If they don't like someone, they don't like that someone. No discussion.
When you are on a trip or spent a lot of time together, they might disappear to be alone for a while. They need that and it doesn't mean that they don't like you.
When they say thank you they mean it. Their way of expressing gratefulness can be insufficient for you but they really don't know what else to do or to say.
They can be random. Like weird noises, crude jokes, plain ridiculous stuff where you think "he/she can't be serious" and they probably aren't. An Ne-Dom would be amused but in case you're not, don't stare at them. Play along. When SLI's do that they begin to open up and trust you with their hidden weirdness.
When they are moody leave them alone.
SLI's don't show their emotions for a number of reasons. Firstly they are bit afraid how it comes off
(that varies from SLI to SLI and depends on how much they have to do with Fe-egos and people in general)
When they make mistakes like talking to much at once, to high voice, weird laughter, too confrontational, too unfriendly - whatever - please don't stand there in shock. If you want to help them cover them. Make a joke. Show them that it's ok.
Even when they come off as unfriendly to you, keep in mind that they have deep feelings and affection inside. Sometimes there is so much going on that it's a real piece of work to keep it all hidden. So when they're unusually quiet don't poke them or you'll get a waterfall of emotions. Give them space. When you're asking what's wrong there is a chance that they'll interpret it as ignorance or blindness to their problems
SLI's are not coldhearted and when you allow them to be themselves you might see a very sweet and passionate side of them.
This perfectly describes my hubby. Perfectly.
*hugs this post*
And if God cares so wonderfully for flowers that are here today and gone tomorrow, won't he more surely care for you?- Matthew 6:30
Assuming that you are ESE, are you really sure that your friend is SLI, and not LSI? Semi-dual friendship is very common
The decisive thing is not the reality of the object, but the reality of the subjective factor, i.e. the primordial images, which in their totality represent a psychic mirror-world. It is a mirror, however, with the peculiar capacity of representing the present contents of consciousness not in their known and customary form but in a certain sense sub specie aeternitatis, somewhat as a million-year old consciousness might see them.
(Jung on Si)
(sli dont have friends)
Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.
~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.
@UDP: Objects in the mirror are closer than they appear.
Aside annoying negativity about sensitive stuff sometime, SLI are mega cool type. Big up. Almost as cool as their dual. More than often, we have the same taste in art and stuff, something wich doesn't exist often with LSE.
Anyone can be good friends with any type so long as the relationship remains casual where both parties can easily walk away from one another. However, when one party depends on the other to help fulfill personal goals, then relations of supervision can run into difficulty because the parties will likely differ significantly in priorities, production processes, and success measurements. SLIs seem to look upon ESEs as rather controlling, scheduled and impatient while ESEs seem to struggle to not find fault with what SLIs are doing with their lives - so much SLI potential if only it could be harnessed, a going-in approach that usually kills these relationships......
a.k.a. I/O
Quite a few times, I've observed and mitigated such problems. ESEs can't seem to stop suggesting which annoys confident SLIs to no end. More than one SLI have implied with various wordings that ESEs were over-zealous and technically incompetent with too many hair-brained ideas. ESEs seem to think that SLIs need to work more toward self-improvement and a better attitude.
a.k.a. I/O
Yes, very much so.
*EDIT*
I certainly respect the SLI's in my life. I'm not blind to their faults, but I like them all.
Last edited by Adam Strange; 06-20-2017 at 05:12 PM.
In a sense, that is a myth. SLIs may occasionally wish to be more social like ESEs but they certainly don't want to be schooled on it. They may admire from afar but parent-child-like interactions oftentimes kill the admiration. Some ESEs may delude themselves into thinking they are being helpful with advice when in fact, resentment is building and the gulf silently widening.......
a.k.a. I/O
Have you ever had one as a real supervisor? If not, could you imagine it? I think the supervisor relationship worsens with increased interdependency.......
a.k.a. I/O
all sli are mechanics so they drive their cars --- but by themselves
even as their friends are running towards them
they drive away and see them in the mirror?
Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.
~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.
???! Why would it be interpreted as ignorance/blindness to the problems of the person? (I'm not talking about SLIs here, just in general. I've seen this behaviour even from EIE so definitely not SLI specific. But I'm baffled when this happens.)
Because we discussed the cause for my bad mood over and over and she would repeatedly deny that there are any problems.
Imagine you sit there with a visibly broken foot and your mother looks at you and asks "So. What's the problem? I see nothing wrong".
A broken foot is an exaggeration obviously but the point is she should have known by now. It's visible. I have dark circles under my eyes since weeks. Any empathic human being who is not deliberately blind to this would have seen this.
And nah - talking to neighbors doesn't (/didn't) solve anything. Children are precious. They need to have their freedom to be awake the whole night. /s
edit: What I'm trying to say is - I've seen Fe-Polr's prefer to be "just understood" without having to explain their feelings to anyone.
just don't try to get them to speak about themselves or their interests before you do first & don't insist if they don't
I think this part (from Gulenko's descriptin) is important when interacting with SLIs
Doesn't like it when someone tries to "peer into his soul" and penetrate into his inner feelings. He must be understood without words.
Dunno, to me a broken foot is very different from dark circles under the eyes. It wouldn't have been obvious to me that this is causing the bad mood (since the reason for it could be something else). But if I'm explicitly told that it's a big problem for the person specifically, I try to keep that in mind.Because we discussed the cause for my bad mood over and over and she would repeatedly deny that there are any problems.
Imagine you sit there with a visibly broken foot and your mother looks at you and asks "So. What's the problem? I see nothing wrong".
A broken foot is an exaggeration obviously but the point is she should have known by now. It's visible. I have dark circles under my eyes since weeks. Any empathic human being who is not deliberately blind to this would have seen this.
And nah - talking to neighbors doesn't (/didn't) solve anything. Children are precious. They need to have their freedom to be awake the whole night. /s
edit: What I'm trying to say is - I've seen Fe-Polr's prefer to be "just understood" without having to explain their feelings to anyone.
As for the Fe PoLR stuff, I don't think it's realistic to expect people to always know the reason for a mood.
I don't think Fe-PoLRs expect people to always know the reason for a mood. they are just uncomfortable expressing feelings so they prefer if others would either understand or at least not ask about it and believe me they won't hate you if you don't ask but they will love you if you just understand.
From my experience here are few problems ESE-SLI relations may have.
Major Problems:
1. Fe Lectures: ESE tends to tell SLI how to behave with people (what to say or do), which is coming from good intention to help but it just get under SLI's skin and make them see ESE as controlling, so don't lecture them
2. Fe Drama: when SLI make a mistake they feel bad & is trying to fix it, so the last thing they want to hear is how you feel about their mistake or worse how they should feel, so if they make a mistake either help them fix without the drama or take the attention away from them if it was in a social setting or there are many people around
3. Fi-Ignoring: ESE seems as if they don't understand why SLI would prioritize Fi over Fe, specially when SLI express an Fi value/interest, then ESE say something like you should do this[Fe-thing that contradict with the Fi value], this feels like a rejection of them or that their values/interests are secondary to what the group values, so if SLI express Fi value acknowledge it even if you don't agree or think they don't know what's good for them just respect they have their own values/interests & don't push yours on them
4. Always in a hurry: seriously why? I know it is because of Ni PoLR but SLI don't like to be hurried unless there is a reason
Minor Problems:
1. ESE tends to like bright colors whereas SLI darker colors (not sure if color preference is type related), this isn't really a problem if ESE don't enforce their preference on SLI or criticize SLI's taste
2. Even if SLI don't seem to be doing anything doesn't mean you can make plans for them without discussing it with them first, SLI don't like it when others expect them to just tag along without considering their opinion
3. SLI make his home comfortable for himself whereas ESE make his home comfortable for his guests, so if living togather & don't agree on what is comfortable they may have some arguements but I think It can be resolve easily since SLI focus on his own room whereas focus on the living room
Those are just my observations, and are based on the assumption that I typed ESE & SLI correctly
ESE is the worst at this!
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