INTj jobs/careers/occupations: what do LIIs do for a living?

[FarDraft]

Just as LIE's are known as workaholics, LII's, who are temperamentally 180 degrees from us (Extinguishment) seem to hate the necessity of work. One LII told me that he'd happily give up 3/4 of his salary if he could come to work for only one week every month.

I thought this was true as well since LIIs value Si and unvalue Te and Se; however, I read quite a bit contradicting this idea. I've skimmed through the articles on wikisocion to see if the claim is true or not. I decided to find out if LIIs are workaholics or not. In the process, I found evidence contradicting the predicate that "LII's hate the necessity of work".

Claim: LIIs are workaholics.

Filatova writes

His work and research often constitute the main purpose of his life. Many representatives of this type corresponds to the label "workaholic".

He cannot simply idle around and exist without a goal.

.
http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...ion-(Filatova)

Gulenko writes

In business and work activities, this desire for freedom is coupled with a sense of responsibility for him. Undemanding, often indifferent to food and decorations. Being captivated by his work may refuse dinner.

http://wikisocion.net/en/index.php?title=LII_Profile_by_Gulenko

Beskova writes

Male LIIs, especially in mature age, may wish to have a large family and many children. They love their children and are sincerely attached to them, however, they may also be somewhat neglectful if they are seriously taken in by their favorite work.

http://wikisocion.net/en/index.php?t...Robespierre.29

Bukalov and Boiko write

General characteristic of people of this type - to go to the goal of consistently and systematically, despite the impediments.

http://wikisocion.net/en/index.php?title=Socionics_Type_Descriptions_by_Buk alov_and_Boiko#LII_.28Robespierre.29

Wikisocion LII composite under "Common social roles"

1. The self-sacrificing workaholic who works hard, not in order to earn money, but because he doesn't want to give anything less than 100%.

http://wikisocion.net/en/index.php?t..._LII_composite

T. Prokofieva and M. Kuzmina write

Having set a goal, the LII relies on his or her own diligence and inner organization to do their work. Consistency, reliability, ability to stick to their word – all of these are typical of representatives of this type.

http://wikisocion.net/en/index.php?t...and_M._Kuzmina

Evidence against claim. Weisband and Aushra write

His dual The Bonvivant, as if being aware of that, involves him into work not by direct orders but begins to fuss about, to make a lot of unnecessary movements – then The Analyst gets involved, and the work goes rapidly, logically and soundly. He himself does not show much initiative, is reclusive and silent.

http://wikisocion.net/en/index.php?t...Robespierre.29

I wasn't able to find more, though it could have been the case that my skimming missed some things. So, I went through each profile using control+F to check key words: "lazy", "hard", "necessity", "salary", "profit". I already went through with control+F to find use of the word "work".

I actually found these quotes: Filatova writes

Though he is often hardworking, operative, and likes organization, he will not execute the commands of superiors, which in his view are incorrect, or do so very begrudgingly.

Beskova writes

At home the male LII behaves softly, somewhat passively, and is responsive to requests of his family members. He is not lazy and strives to carry out his obligations. The male LII will not refuse to look after children, to change diapers, to walk to the store and buy produce.

Blohin writes

Methodicalness, perseverance, high capacity for work especially mental, endurance, commitment, responsibility, work without rest or interruption

http://wikisocion.net/en/index.php?t...Robespierre.29


Conclusion: I know not all these quotes precisely support the claim that LIIs are workaholics, but the picture is clear - they are persistent, hardworking individuals. ADDITION: The quotes talking about how LIIs strive to achieve a goal and are willing to put aside personal pleasures for that goal indicate that LIIs value the process of work when it is of interest to them. We conclude that since they are taking the goal on their own volition without external forces, meaning that they want to do it. I don't think it's possible to value the process of work without valuing its necessity.

Valuing the process of work (on an individual level) = valuing that in order to achieve something, a process must be undertaken to achieve it.
Valuing the necessity of work (on an individual level) = valuing that in order for anything to be accomplished, work must be done.

The process that must be undertaken is the work. Therefore, valuing the process of work <=> valuing the necessity of work. QED for my bullshit pedantic-ass proof.

[Adam Strange]

I thought this was true as well since LIIs value Si and unvalue Te and Se; however, I read quite a bit contradicting this idea. I've skimmed through the articles on wikisocion to see if the claim is true or not.

Claim: LIIs are workaholics.

Filatova writes
.
http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...ion-(Filatova)

Gulenko writes

http://wikisocion.net/en/index.php?title=LII_Profile_by_Gulenko

Beskova writes
http://wikisocion.net/en/index.php?t...Robespierre.29

Bukalov and Boiko write
http://wikisocion.net/en/index.php?title=Socionics_Type_Descriptions_by_Buk alov_and_Boiko#LII_.28Robespierre.29

Wikisocion LII composite under "Common social roles"
http://wikisocion.net/en/index.php?t..._LII_composite

T. Prokofieva and M. Kuzmina write
http://wikisocion.net/en/index.php?t...and_M._Kuzmina

Evidence against claim. Weisband and Aushra write
http://wikisocion.net/en/index.php?t...Robespierre.29

I wasn't able to find more, though it could have been the case that my skimming missed some things. So, I went through each profile using control+F to check key words: "lazy", "hard", "necessity", "salary", "profit". I already went through with control+F to find use of the word "work".

I actually found these quotes: Filatova writes

Beskova writes

Blohin writes
http://wikisocion.net/en/index.php?t...Robespierre.29


Conclusion: I know not all these quotes precisely support the claim that LIIs are workaholics, but the picture is clear - they are persistent, hardworking individuals.

@FarDraft, I said that LII's seem to hate the necessity of work, not that they hate all work. I believe they hate (or resent) the idea that they have to work to stay alive.

The impression I get of LII's is not one of a lazy person, exactly, because LII's can work mentally very hard and can meet deadlines extremely well. Also, the quality of their work is usually extremely high. But I can't recall ever actually seeing an LII initiate a project because they either were incredibly interested in it, or thought it would amass them a fortune. Instead, the modus operandi seems to be, Find something that can be done without the expenditure of much physical energy and do enough of it to get an adequate income for minimal needs.

Now, if you give an LII a reasonably comfortable, secure position and the responsibility to write a report, meet a deadline, or organize a project with the understanding that failing to do so is a personal failing which will put them out on the street and under a bridge, then they will come through every time.

How much they self-motivate, though seems to be a question. If left alone with adequate (minimal) resources, I think there is a tendency for them to fall into immobility.

I want to add a disclaimer here. I'm observing their behavior from the standpoint of an opposing quadra, and therefore am in about the worst position possible to make assumptions about their motives. My descriptions are only reflections of how I see them operating, and personal projections about why they do what they do.

[Exodus]

@FarDraft, I said that LII's seem to hate the necessity of work, not that they hate all work. I believe they hate (or resent) the idea that they have to work to stay alive.

The impression I get of LII's is not one of a lazy person, exactly, because LII's can work mentally very hard and can meet deadlines extremely well. Also, the quality of their work is usually extremely high. But I can't recall ever actually seeing an LII initiate a project because they either were incredibly interested in it, or thought it would amass them a fortune. Instead, the modus operandi seems to be, Find something that can be done without the expenditure of much physical energy and do enough of it to get an adequate income for minimal needs.

Now, if you give an LII a reasonably comfortable, secure position and the responsibility to write a report, meet a deadline, or organize a project with the understanding that failing to do so is a personal failing which will put them out on the street and under a bridge, then they will come through every time.

How much they self-motivate, though seems to be a question. If left alone with adequate (minimal) resources, I think there is a tendency for them to fall into immobility.

I want to add a disclaimer here. I'm observing their behavior from the standpoint of an opposing quadra, and therefore am in about the worst position possible to make assumptions about their motives. My descriptions are only reflections of how I see them operating, and personal projections about why they do what they do.

I tend to agree with how you put it here.

The concept of LIIs as workaholics seems to be based on a few things that are actually true:

1. LIIs are more focused on tasks than people.
2. They are often single-minded and detail-oriented, even perfectionistic.

So, an LII will generally put more effort into the *quality* of work than most other types, just as LIEs put more effort into the quantity of work (working 18 hour days, sleeping under your desk and such). But I think your more standard workaholic tends to be an extroverted type with high Se. It makes little sense to say that LIIs are workaholics in any way that LSIs are not.

[FarDraft]

@FarDraft, I said that LII's seem to hate the necessity of work, not that they hate all work. I believe they hate (or resent) the idea that they have to work to stay alive.

The impression I get of LII's is not one of a lazy person, exactly, because LII's can work mentally very hard and can meet deadlines extremely well. Also, the quality of their work is usually extremely high. But I can't recall ever actually seeing an LII initiate a project because they either were incredibly interested in it, or thought it would amass them a fortune. Instead, the modus operandi seems to be, Find something that can be done without the expenditure of much physical energy and do enough of it to get an adequate income for minimal needs.

Now, if you give an LII a reasonably comfortable, secure position and the responsibility to write a report, meet a deadline, or organize a project with the understanding that failing to do so is a personal failing which will put them out on the street and under a bridge, then they will come through every time.

How much they self-motivate, though seems to be a question. If left alone with adequate (minimal) resources, I think there is a tendency for them to fall into immobility.

I want to add a disclaimer here. I'm observing their behavior from the standpoint of an opposing quadra, and therefore am in about the worst position possible to make assumptions about their motives. My descriptions are only reflections of how I see them operating, and personal projections about why they do what they do.

I'm aware that you made the claim that LII's seem to hate the necessity of work. I was simply looking for evidence to see if they are workaholics or not. In the process of finding evidence for that, I found evidence against the idea that LIIs hate the necessity of work. I'll edit my post to make this distinction clearer since it really isn't in its current form.