How can someone get your attention?

[Adam Strange]

Your poor duals

Maybe, but then my uncertainty is gone, she gets a big hug and a kiss and her uncertainty is gone because she can see that her guy knows where home is, and we go securely on to the next thing, which might be dinner or a movie.

Now Chae, IF you are IEE, then I was married to your dual, and SLI operate very differently from ESI's. In their case you, as an IEE, need to be very clear with your SLI. As in, stand in front of them and ask them if they want to have sex, right now. They will either say yes, or no. And if no, then that answer might change in a bit, so be prepared to ask them again. A no from an SLI is not a rejection, they just aren't "hungry" at the moment.

[Chae]

Maybe, but then my uncertainty is gone, she gets a big hug and a kiss and her uncertainty is gone because she can see that her guy knows where home is, and we go securely on to the next thing, which might be dinner or a movie.

Yasss now we're talking

[Chae]

Now Chae, IF you are IEE, then I was married to your dual, and SLI operate very differently from ESI's. In their case you, as an IEE, need to be very clear with your SLI. As in, stand in front of them and ask them if they want to have sex, right now. They will either say yes, or no. And if no, then that answer might change in a bit, so be prepared to ask them again. A no from an SLI is not a rejection, they just aren't "hungry" at the moment.

[Adding NSFW in the OP] An interesting addendum, your 7-wing is showing. I doubt that you could transfer your experience to mine, but you got the dynamics down. Now, independent of my sociotype - come on, you're also SX first. You know that we just can't shut up when the thirst gets real. And in my case, you get self-pres as a cherry on top. If I am not straightforward about sex initiation, no one is. Yes or no is good, asking twice, thrice, no problem since it fosters my ambition. Although my instant timing is good, body language and stuff, no coercion needed Although generally I would say that there is a difference between the stereotypically female and male approach due to cultural norms, you witnessed the female one.

[Adam Strange]

[Adding NSFW in the OP] An interesting addendum, your 7-wing is showing. I doubt that you could transfer your experience to mine, but you got the dynamics down. Now, independent of my sociotype - come on, you're also SX first. You know that we just can't shut up when the thirst gets real. And in my case, you get self-pres as a cherry on top. If I am not straightforward about sex initiation, no one is. Yes or no is good, asking twice, thrice, no problem since it fosters my ambition. Although my instant timing is good, body language and stuff, no coercion needed

Yes, being SX first does mean that I am highly interested in initiating. As in, highly interested. This has caused an LSI GF to tell me that I'm the Aggressor, not her. But the "showing me her tits" thing (or something equivalent) is an essential part of the dance for me. It gives me a clear "green light", without which I, as a Victim, can't proceed. The LSI was surprised to learn that she could completely stop my fairly forceful advances just by saying no.

Although generally I would say that there is a difference between the stereotypically female and male approach due to cultural norms, you witnessed the female one.

I did witness the female SLI approach to sex, and it consisted of me initiating about 99.4% of the time. I think she was SP/SO. She completely enjoyed sex, she just almost never initiated. Well, if I delve deeper and include the times I "read the signs", maybe I could say she initiated about 20% of the time.

However, I also witnessed my parent's marriage, a female LSE and a male SLI, and they never talked about sex at all. Like, it didn't exist in their universe. They had three kids, so it happened, but an anthropologist would have had a hard time discovering that.

Furthermore, at work I've seen a male SLI talk to his wife on the phone, and I've seen where he interacts with a female IEE at work, and in both cases, the female is like, all smiles and direct eye contact and "Hey, Big Guy. Here I am!" and the male SLI is like "Uh, what's up? I'm kind of doing something right now. Is this something that can wait?"

Also, when I first started talking to my SLI son about girlfriends (specifically, about how he should act toward her, some basic do's and don'ts), I described an IEE to him and asked him what he'd do if the IEE came on to him, and without looking up from his iPhone, he said he'd tell her to get lost.

So, I have actually witnessed the male SLI part of the equation, too, and Chae, you have your work cut out for you. I can completely understand your motives for starting this thread.

[Chae]

Yes, being SX first does mean that I am highly interested in initiating. As in, highly
interested. This has caused an LSI GF to tell me that I'm the Aggressor, not her. But the "showing me her tits" thing (or something equivalent) is an essential part of the dance for me. It gives me a clear "green light", without which I, as a Victim, can't proceed. The LSI was surprised to learn that she could completely stop my fairly forceful advances just by saying no.

That means she felt that she had no chance against your pressure, initially. Jesus take the wheel! You must have a strong aura. I relate, SX is often mistaken for ego, it's quite a feat but only when "packaged" carefully with the secondary instinct. The green light should be a given, so your show-me-what-u-got-approach is actually an A+ consent negotiation (and it's arousing so it kills two birds with one stone ). I am sure that your enneagram is responsible for what you describe as fairly forceful, e8 comes across as uncompromising and go-getterish even if they are at their most insecure, yes, especially then. Which all links neatly to your victim stance of uncertainty in partnership, moderated by pseudo-aggressiveness that Gamma NTs display.

I did witness the female SLI approach to sex, and it consisted of me initiating about 99.4% of the time. I think she was SP/SO. She completely enjoyed sex, she just almost never initiated. Well, if I delve deeper and include the times I "read the signs", maybe I could say she initiated about 20% of the time.

However, I also witnessed my parent's marriage, a female LSE and a male SLI, and they never talked about sex at all. Like, it didn't exist in their universe. They had three kids, so it happened, but an anthropologist would have had a hard time discovering that.

Furthermore, at work I've seen a male SLI talk to his wife on the phone, and I've seen where he interacts with a female EII at work, and in both cases, the female is like, all smiles and direct eye contact and "Hey, Big Guy. Here I am!" and the male SLI is like "Uh, what's up? I'm kind of doing something right now. Is this something that can wait?"

Also, when I first started talking to my SLI son about girlfriends (specifically, about how he should act toward her, some basic do's and don'ts), I described an EII to him and asked him what he'd do if the EII came on to him, and without looking up from his iPhone, he said he'd tell her to get lost.

So, I have actually witnessed the male SLI part of the equation, too, and Chae, you have your work cut out for you. I can completely understand your motives for starting this thread.

Ahh, SX-last. That's quite another league, and not contraflow like you. Hm... initiation is sort of a mutual game in Si quadras, it matters a lot more to be in sync than to engage in a push/pull scenario. I bet your parents were SX-last as well. Lol at the anthropologist and cute SLI avoidance tactics I gotta ask, why did you describe an EII and not an IEE? Well technically, you witnessed it in theory/rudiments and not actual practice. What I've read, SLI/IEE "obstinate" dualization - sexual activities of all kind included - takes the longest in the socion, that's no surprise.

[Aramas]

That means she felt that she had no chance against your pressure, initially. Jesus take the wheel! You must have a strong aura. I relate, SX is often mistaken for ego, it's quite a feat but only when "packaged" carefully with the secondary instinct. The green light should be a given, so your show-me-what-u-got-approach is actually an A+ consent negotiation (and it's arousing so it kills two birds with one stone ). I am sure that your enneagram is responsible for what you describe as fairly forceful, e8 comes across as uncompromising and go-getterish even if they are at their most insecure, yes, especially then. Which all links neatly to your victim stance of uncertainty in partnership, moderated by pseudo-aggressiveness that Gamma NTs display.



Ahh, SX-last. That's quite another league, and not contraflow like you. Hm... initiation is sort of a mutual game in Si quadras, it matters a lot more to be in sync than to engage in a push/pull scenario. I bet your parents were SX-last as well. Lol at the anthropologist and cute SLI avoidance tactics I gotta ask, why did you describe an EII and not an IEE? Well technically, you witnessed it in theory/rudiments and not actual practice. What I've read, SLI/IEE "obstinate" dualization - sexual activities of all kind included - takes the longest in the socion, that's no surprise.

Why does it take the longest in the Socion? I'm curious and I've heard this but never read the original statement, if there is one.

[Chae]

Why does it take the longest in the Socion? I'm curious and I've heard this but never read the original statement, if there is one.

Yes, it's super interesting: From what I remember (it was on Wikisocion, by Bukalov I think?) the combination of obstinacy, irrationality, aristocracy and the Don Juan-like quality of both types (esp. IEE, who is difficult to pin down) causes a prolonged process of dualization. As Adam said, the SLI is also difficult to get close to. They put a large psychological distance between them and people they interact with, while the IEE is the exact opposite, always on the run, up to chase the next opportunity. It's apparent that it's veeery difficult to reconcile these opposite drives, compromise is needed first which is actually easy as they are duals but they won't consider it due to their stubborn mindset.

The benefit, that's what was pointed out in the text as well, is that this dual couple has the potential to last the longest. The reason is that both types are prone to never exit the comfort zone - compared to SeNi duals, there's quite an inertia present. And! On top of that, they really avoid destroying the harmony, but that's obv since it's Delta we're talking about

[Adam Strange]

That means she felt that she had no chance against your pressure, initially. Jesus take the wheel!

After writing that, I realized that your statement is one way of interpreting her reaction, and I started wondering if that could be how she actually feels. I'm not that intimidating, by any means. However, I have met her father, and he is pretty clearly an LSI, and I think her mother was an introvert, because she describes her mother as retreating before her father and spending most of her time on the couch. My LSI GF, being the oldest of eight children, had to take care of her sisters and brothers because her mother was too ill and basically gave up. She also said her father insisted on continuing to have children, despite her mother's frail condition, until he got a couple of boys. So, maybe she does think the woman has little choice in the matter. IDK. This is very different from my own expectations.

Ahh, SX-last. That's quite another league, and not contraflow like you. Hm... initiation is sort of a mutual game in Si quadras, it matters a lot more to be in sync than to engage in a push/pull scenario. I bet your parents were SX-last as well. Lol at the anthropologist and cute SLI avoidance tactics

My parents probably are SX-last and SP-first, just like my ex-wife. The LSI is not SX-last, and the difference is amazing.

I gotta ask, why did you describe an EII and not an IEE?

That was an error of my writing. I actually just now mixed up EII and IEE, and have corrected it in my post. In reality, I described an IEE to my son.

[Chae]

After writing that, I realized that your statement is one way of interpreting her reaction, and I started wondering if that could be how she actually feels. I'm not that intimidating, by any means. However, I have met her father, and he is pretty clearly an LSI, and I think her mother was an introvert, because she describes her mother as retreating before her father and spending most of her time on the couch. My LSI GF, being the oldest of eight children, had to take care of her sisters and brothers because her mother was too ill and basically gave up. She also said her father insisted on continuing to have children, despite her mother's frail condition, until he got a couple of boys. So, maybe she does think the woman has little choice in the matter. IDK. This is very different from my own expectations.

Ah, well it's interpreting for sure. But you expanded on that well, you're up to something. What I mean is, her natural family disposition could've quite influenced her attitude in that regard. Hm... you didn't ask her how he feels about it so we can only make guesses -_-

My parents probably are SX-last and SP-first, just like my ex-wife. The LSI is not SX-last, and the difference is amazing.


That was an error of my writing. I actually just now mixed up EII and IEE, and have corrected it in my post. In reality, I described an IEE to my son.

YES! The discrepancy between an SX-last stacking and SX first/sec (combined with Se ego, that is) ones is striking. Could you elaborate on that, sounds good!

Ah, gotcha