USA politics following Trump's election

[summerprincess]

My theory is that Trump supporters are spurred to like him for any of these reasons: 1) Backlash to political correctness/alt right. These people are young and do not care about policy, jobs or issues in general they just hate the left and academia. 2) Old people who live in hick towns who want blue-collar jobs to pay for their mortgage like they used to. (These jobs are either gone forever to automation or to China) Newsflash your jobs are not coming back. They ruined the planet anyway with all that coal. 3) Lifelong republicans who supported Trump only because he was Republican. This includes people who vote single-issue like pro-life. 4) People who hate Clinton and would vote for anyone else, at all.

3 & 4 have some overlap.

[ragnar]

My theory is that Trump supporters are spurred to like him for any of these reasons: 1) Backlash to political correctness/alt right. These people are young and do not care about policy, jobs or issues in general they just hate the left and academia. 2) Old people who live in hick towns who want blue-collar jobs to pay for their mortgage like they used to. (These jobs are either gone forever to automation or to China) Newsflash your jobs are not coming back. They ruined the planet anyway with all that coal. 3) Lifelong republicans who supported Trump only because he was Republican. This includes people who vote single-issue like pro-life. 4) People who hate Clinton and would vote for anyone else, at all.

3 & 4 have some overlap.

I obviously didn't vote, but if I had, my vote would almost certainly go to Trump. I don't fully relate to all your points, though.

Wrt your pt 1, yeah, my vote would be a backlash to pc. I also dislike the left and academia.

Wrt your pt 2, I can't really relate, I found Trump's nonsense talk about "bringing jobs back" rather annoying, but I found his apparent respect for blue-collar professions and vocational training refreshing and encouraging.

Wrt your pt 3, yeah, I can relate, the DNC rhetoric seems totally alien, irrelevant and to a very large extent even contradictory to anything that I care about. I think that has to do with a dichotomy that relates to Socionics, "joiners" vs "individualists", idealists vs rationalists, "male" vs "female" psyche, whatever, not sure how to pinpoint it accurately.

Wrt your pt 4, I got thoroughly disillusioned with the Clintons already back in the 1990s, less than two years after they came on the national scene, so yeah, I would rather vote for a sack of potatoes than for anyone in the Clinton machine.

[Suz]

My theory is that Trump supporters are spurred to like him for any of these reasons: 1) Backlash to political correctness/alt right. These people are young and do not care about policy, jobs or issues in general they just hate the left and academia. 2) Old people who live in hick towns who want blue-collar jobs to pay for their mortgage like they used to. (These jobs are either gone forever to automation or to China) Newsflash your jobs are not coming back. They ruined the planet anyway with all that coal. 3) Lifelong republicans who supported Trump only because he was Republican. This includes people who vote single-issue like pro-life. 4) People who hate Clinton and would vote for anyone else, at all.

3 & 4 have some overlap.

there's a #5 - racists who want the "good old days" of white supremacy back, and liked his rhetoric. There is some overlap of this subset with the other 4.

[Jarno]

My theory is that Trump supporters are spurred to like him for any of these reasons: ...

Maybe I can add some, I'm a trump supporter, because of these reasons:

A) I hate political correctness, it's like not adressing problems but shoving them under the carpet.
B) I like action instead of hollow words or promises that never come.
C) I like the power to the people, not to the elite/big companies.
D) I like healthy boundaries, so muslims in muslim countries, usa in usa countries, mexican in mexico. This makes everybody happy.

[Adam Strange]

Maybe I can add some, I'm a trump supporter, because of these reasons:

A) I hate political correctness, it's like not adressing problems but shoving them under the carpet.
B) I like action instead of hollow words or promises that never come.
C) I like the power to the people, not to the elite/big companies.
D) I like healthy boundaries, so muslims in muslim countries, usa in usa countries, mexican in mexico. This makes everybody happy.

Hi, Jarno.
Thanks, I've often wondered why some people support Trump.
It is interesting that I support most of those things, too, but that caused me to vote for Hillary.
I agree with you on A, with the caveat that some things should be considered from several standpoints before taking action. Trump's Yemen raid is an example of that, but in general, I agree that shoving problems under the carpet is bad.
I also agree with you on B, but once again, only after those actions are considered.
I also agree with you on C, so I have a hard time watching Trump fill his cabinet with guys from big business and big finance when he said he would "drain the swamp". The first significant bill he has signed kills a transparency rule for oil companies.

What do you think about that?

We disagree on D. I think free movement between countries is a good thing because it attracts brilliant and hard-working people to the US. Vote with your feet. Imagine a world where you were locked into your little village for life, and your employer pretty much could do whatever he wants. On the other hand, immigration into the US is bad because individuals in the US have a huge footprint on the Earth, so more people here just speeds the consumption of finite resources. But on the other, other hand, fresh talent is often where the solutions come from.

Personally, I'm glad my ancestors were able to come to the US from Ireland (fleeing the potato famine) and from the Czech Republic (fleeing overpopulation vs. the food supply around 1914*, and once they got to the States, they converted to become Protestants.) If they hadn't been able to do that, there's a good chance they'd have died before I was started.

*You may have read about efforts begun in that year to bring the population of Europe closer to what the food supply could support.

[Computer Loser]

We disagree on D. I think free movement between countries is a good thing because it attracts brilliant and hard-working people to the US. Vote with your feet. Imagine a world where you were locked into your little village for life, and your employer pretty much could do whatever he wants. On the other hand, immigration into the US is bad because individuals in the US have a huge footprint on the Earth, so more people here just speeds the consumption of finite resources. But on the other, other hand, fresh talent is often where the solutions come from.

Personally, I'm glad my ancestors were able to come to the US from Ireland (fleeing the potato famine) and from the Czech Republic (fleeing overpopulation vs. the food supply around 1914*, and once they got to the States, they converted to become Protestants.) If they hadn't been able to do that, there's a good chance they'd have died before I was started.

*You may have read about efforts begun in that year to bring the population of Europe closer to what the food supply could support.

Nobody's against immigration. It's ILLEGAL immigration that's in question.

Imagine if you were living in your house with open doors and unlocked windows. People just coming in and out as they please. Would you be willing to do that? Of course not. It has to be regulated. There has to be some lines and boundaries.

Speaking of which, here is Bill Clinton and Obama speaking on immigration. What do you think of their opinions

[mu4]

Nobody's against immigration. It's ILLEGAL immigration that's in question.

Imagine if you were living in your house with open doors and unlocked windows. People just coming in and out as they please. Would you be willing to do that? Of course not. It has to be regulated. There has to be some lines and boundaries.

Speaking of which, here is Bill Clinton and Obama speaking on immigration. What do you think of their opinions

What do you think of something like stop and frisk, this is the problem, even american citizens can be stopped if they look like a "illegal". I don't think you really understand how the laws are being perverted to hurt legal immigrants, most of the people affected by the bans were not illegal immigrants, they were people who had VISAs. Your argument is meaningless when the most onerous actions are against legal immigrants not illegal ones.

Most of the court fights right now are about how to handle legal immigrants, including those seeking asylum(these are legal immigrants until they get their due process).

[Jarno]

I also agree with you on C, so I have a hard time watching Trump fill his cabinet with guys from big business and big finance when he said he would "drain the swamp". The first significant bill he has signed kills a transparency rule for oil companies.

What do you think about that?

ah yes, if he is adding business guys to his cabinet it is against his promises. But giving an oil company some extra space could be to benefit the people of america, not just for giving the oil company higher profits.

[FDG]

D) I like healthy boundaries, so muslims in muslim countries, usa in usa countries, mexican in mexico. This makes everybody happy.

Eh, i mean, texas and cali used to be fully "mexican" in principle. Idk if you can reason like that in really big countries.

[xerx]

D) I like healthy boundaries, so muslims in muslim countries, usa in usa countries, mexican in mexico. This makes everybody happy.

What's the basis for dividing people into these specific groups though? I'd have more personally in common with some nerdy, liberal, Muslim refugee from Mombasa than I do with 99% of my own culture and ethnicity.

[Jarno]

What's the basis for dividing people into these specific groups though? I'd have more personally in common with some nerdy, liberal, Muslim refugee from Mombasa than I do with 99% of my own culture and ethnicity.

Well I guess it's just subjective. But I like people who I can relate too. I cannot relate to muslims to much, I don't know their culture and I don't want to know. I feel fine, and don't like to be confronted with religion etc.
Also when they arrive in a country they start to build mosques and raise their flags, as if the country is conquered and you are on their territory. There are lot's of no-go area's where muslims live, you are not welcome in their neighbourhoud.

[xerx]

Well I guess it's just subjective. But I like people who I can relate too. I cannot relate to muslims to much, I don't know their culture and I don't want to know. I feel fine, and don't like to be confronted with religion etc.
Also when they arrive in a country they start to build mosques and raise their flags, as if the country is conquered and you are on their territory. There are lot's of no-go area's where muslims live, you are not welcome in their neighbourhoud.

Hmm, can't say that I share that experience; virtually everyone assimilates in Canada, especially Muslims - I'd argue because Canada is a very inclusive, egalitarian society. The effect of being an immigrant-founded nation probably also contributes to outsiders being made to feel included, as it likely does in the rest of the new world.

Bucking the apparent trend world-wide, there was a recent terrorist attack in Quebec against Muslims by some nut who reads Alt-right websites and Richard Dawkins.

[Jarno]

Hmm, can't say that I share that experience; virtually everyone assimilates in Canada, especially Muslims - I'd argue because Canada is a very inclusive, egalitarian society. The effect of being an immigrant-founded nation probably also contributes to outsiders being made to feel included, as it likely does in the rest of the new world.

Bucking the apparent trend world-wide, there was a recent terrorist attack in Quebec against Muslims by some nut who reads Alt-right websites and Richard Dawkins.

Yes that is canada. I can see how you cannot relate to my experience. But you would if you lived here.

In my country many muslims don't integrate, they build mosques and segragate from the rest. For example we have muslim 'refugees' from Somalia that came here in 2002, and now in 2016/2017 still 80% of them lives on welfare and has no job. This is a fact from our statistics bureau. In canada these people would work, here they don't. How come??

[FDG]

Yes that is canada. I can see how you cannot relate to my experience. But you would if you lived here.

In my country many muslims don't integrate, they build mosques and segragate from the rest. For example we have muslim 'refugees' from Somalia that came here in 2002, and now in 2016/2017 still 80% of them lives on welfare and has no job. This is a fact from our statistics bureau. In canada these people would work, here they don't. How come??

I agree with this sentiment after living in central-northern europe since some years.
Although Jarno many refugees are also not allowed to work for many years due to bureucratic rules.

[xerx]

Yes that is canada. I can see how you cannot relate to my experience. But you would if you lived here.

In my country many muslims don't integrate, they build mosques and segragate from the rest. For example we have muslim 'refugees' from Somalia that came here in 2002, and now in 2016/2017 still 80% of them lives on welfare and has no job. This is a fact from our statistics bureau. In canada these people would work, here they don't. How come??

I will admit that I'm not terribly familiar with the situation in Europe.

I don't know the stats offhand in Canada, but even in a USA which elected Donald Trump, Muslims are the second most educated religious group (Jews are number one), making up a significant share of physicians and hi-tech workers at Silicon Valley. Miss USA 2010 was a bikini-clad Muslim. Muslims overwhelmingly voted for Bernie Sanders (a Jewish Socialist) during the Democratic party primaries.

Even with the occasional radical, North America has to be doing something right for integration to be going this smoothly.

[FDG]

Maybe I can add some, I'm a trump supporter, because of these reasons:

A) I hate political correctness, it's like not adressing problems but shoving them under the carpet.
B) I like action instead of hollow words or promises that never come.
C) I like the power to the people, not to the elite/big companies.
D) I like healthy boundaries, so muslims in muslim countries, usa in usa countries, mexican in mexico. This makes everybody happy.

I think Trump may only deliver on point A). I do agree with you on that, especially in europe we need less political correctness and more matter-of-fact action.

Point C) I really doubt that, Trump is part of the elite. Point D) the USA is a nation of immigrants thus...