USA politics following Trump's election

[mu4]

I agree with all of your points about the economy and who is running it, but I think Trump will only make things worst. He promised to "drain the swamp", but immediately broke that promise when he appointed both billionaires and Washington insiders to his cabinet. He seems uninterested in intelligence briefings or in policy or in the rule of law. Remember his "You'd be in jail." comment to Hillary?

Many people voted for George Bush because he was the kind of guy they'd like to have a beer with. One of their own. What they got was a government of rich thieves who started two wars, deregulated the banks so they could steal faster and left America with the tab, and incompetent political appointees who gave us the response to Katrina.

When you elect people who hate the government, would you expect them to make government work better?

What most people who vote for these guys, whom they relate to and think will do right by them, fail to understand about them is that they don't want to have a beer with us.

Unfortunately I think Trump and destruction is what a segment of the population wants. I don't think the people who vote for Trump are stupid, my brother's in laws voted for Trump and they're far from that. But there is a existential nihilism they have which fuels them which comes from their upbringing and entitlement. They have the power and the privilege in society or at least this is something they feel, but they're also on the way out in the firmest sense.

I think Nietzsche spoke about these psychological forces with great insightful although incomplete in many ways. He spoke of passive vs active nihilism and in a great sense nihilism is the force at play today, both passive and active. There is a goal to this nihilistic intent and that is destruction. Unfortunately much of what could resists the current movements is besot by a force of passive nihilism, and much of what steers these movements is driven by an representative of active nihilism. The tragedy of the situation is that passive nihilism will not be able to resist the forces of active nihilism, and perhaps only a contest of will, a contest of destructive forces can this dynamic be resolved.

The other dynamic at play is that many of the individuals who voted for trump are driven more so by passive nihilism, as they wait for their own inevitable doom, they're too weary to truly destroy so they choose a proxy. And the object of their destruction is their children and descendents, much like Greek god Chronos eating his young, much like time eats at them.

[Raver]

Even though I was indifferent to who would win the election, I have a kind of morbid curiosity to what will happen to the country with Trump as president. As merely a spectator as a Canadian, I did find the presidential race fascinating personally. I wonder if Trump will live up to his promises and actually do some good for the country despite his unappealing character or if he's just a snake oil salesman that made a lot of false promises to get elected like most politicians tend to do.

Anything is possible, but the truth will be revealed in time on what his true intentions are and whether Americans made the right decision or not. They decided to take a huge gamble with Trump. Simply put, Clinton was the safe choice that would probably not result in anything extraordinary or anything awful either, but Trump is the risky choice that could either pay off well or blow up in their face IMO. I found an interesting article that sheds some light on why Americans opted for Trump over Clinton:

http://www.newsweek.com/science-can-...clinton-484449

[Suz]

Even though I was indifferent to who would win the election, I have a kind of morbid curiosity to what will happen to the country with Trump as president. As merely a spectator as a Canadian, I did find the presidential race fascinating personally. I wonder if Trump will live up to his promises and actually do some good for the country despite his unappealing character or if he's just a snake oil salesman that made a lot of false promises to get elected like most politicians tend to do.

Anything is possible, but the truth will be revealed in time on what his true intentions are and whether Americans made the right decision or not. They decided to take a huge gamble with Trump. Simply put, Clinton was the safe choice that would probably not result in anything extraordinary or anything awful either, but Trump is the risky choice that could either pay off well or blow up in their face IMO. I found an interesting article that sheds some light on why Americans opted for Trump over Clinton:

http://www.newsweek.com/science-can-...clinton-484449

More than half of the US population did not want him. Count me out of the blanket statement of "whether Americans made the right decision or not". I am an American who did not decide this; I was very opposed to it.

I saw (and still see) his farcical behavior during his presidential campaign, and ongoing even now (and for that matter, his track records from the past), as a very ominous sign that there is very little good that he can do for our country. Any good that he will do will only be a byproduct of him serving his own self-interests, which may happen to benefit others similar to him (by coincidence), and be at the expense of many other Americans (even many of those who voted for him). It will also be at dire expense of America's interactions with the rest of the world.

Please do not generalize on all Americans on this choice.

[Grendel]

I saw (and still see) his farcical behavior during his presidential campaign, and ongoing even now (and for that matter, his track records from the past), as a very ominous sign that there is very little good that he can do for our country. Any good that he will do will only be a byproduct of him serving his own self-interests, which may happen to benefit others similar to him (by coincidence), and be at the expense of many other Americans (even many of those who voted for him). It will also be at dire expense of America's interactions with the rest of the world.

Farcical? His actions indicate otherwise.


Can we all agree that irony is no longer a legitimate thing and that a person's humor is at least somewhat grounded in actual opinion now?

[Suz]

Farcical? His actions indicate otherwise.


Can we all agree that irony is no longer a legitimate thing and that a person's humor is at least somewhat grounded in actual opinion now?

point well taken. I should say "seemingly farcical" to be more precise.

[Raver]

More than half of the US population did not want him. Count me out of the blanket statement of "whether Americans made the right decision or not". I am an American who did not decide this; I was very opposed to it.

I saw (and still see) his farcical behavior during his presidential campaign, and ongoing even now (and for that matter, his track records from the past), as a very ominous sign that there is very little good that he can do for our country. Any good that he will do will only be a byproduct of him serving his own self-interests, which may happen to benefit others similar to him (by coincidence), and be at the expense of many other Americans (even many of those who voted for him). It will also be at dire expense of America's interactions with the rest of the world.

Please do not generalize on all Americans on this choice.

As with any democracy, especially one with an electoral college, there will be about half of the population that did not want someone as president. I was referring to the half of the population that voted for him, not the other half that didn't. I didn't make that clear because I thought that was obvious.

[jessica129]

I hope he is the best president that has ever lived or will ever live so people would stfu.

[Tonatiuh]

I hope he is the best president that has ever lived or will ever live so people would stfu.

Even if he is not. I am already satisfied having tasted the sweet tears of all those autistic leftists that was so sure he wouldn't get elected in the first place.

[mu4]

Even if he is not. I am already satisfied having tasted the sweet tears of all those autistic leftists that was so sure he wouldn't get elected in the first place.

There are no significant left in America, not truly, and if and when it finally rises as it can in society, it will bring blood and fire.

[End]

I hope he is the best president that has ever lived or will ever live so people would stfu.

Me too, at least on some level. What he did or what he lead up to makes little difference, what really matters is if he keeps this global clusterfuck from detonating into a mass extinction event. Either we figure out FTL on this iteration and break out into the stars or we become yet another Tomb World for a more lucky civilization that got it right to study a few eons down the road.

I'm really hoping for the former, as the latter means your species was just a "statistic" as far as the Galaxy was concerned. A potentially very nice statistic for the Civilization that happens to colonize the corpse of a world you left somehow, but a statistic nonetheless. I don't know about you, but I'd rather my descendants personally introduce the Xenos to the awesomeness of Heavy Metal rather then some Archeological team discover a random data core that contains all the greatest Metal riffs that inspires some alien nerds to compose stuff that sounds like it came out of the mind of Ronnie James Dio. They wouldn't have the slightest clue of what I'm getting at there, but hey, humans reference human stuff. If we die and yet leave a record the aliens will reference us without any knowledge of who "we" were as we would wish to tell them. After all, we dead, they just came across a remarkably well preserved record of who "we" were in their eyes and/or cultural context.

Food for thought in any event. If ya knew humanity was fucked down the road no matter what you or your progeny did, how would you respond? It's an intriguing question. Me? I'd just go for optimizing the next century or so. If humanity dies over 10k years from now than I could care less. I'd rather make the next 1-2k years awesome for me and mine. But that's just me, I'm just a dumb ignorant redneck country boy after all. At least that's what ANTIFA wants ya to think....

[Animal]

I hope he is the best president that has ever lived or will ever live so people would stfu.

People don't shut up about good presidents, or even bad ones. They shut up about mediocre ones. When's the last time you heard of William Howard Taft?

[Adam Strange]

Your Daily Trump:

http://www.eschatonblog.com/2017/01/...%28Eschaton%29

[Chae]

YouTube gold: "Thank you my prince"

[Suz]

It hasn't even been a week and a half since Trump was elected, and already so much seems to be happening or on the verge of happening.

For example, apparently some people think this kind of thing is alright:

http://time.com/4574732/donald-trump...slim-registry/

Are people really okay w referring to Japanese internment camps as a precedent for government action now?

It's a vehement NO from me.

[Skepsis]

This is going to be a money grabbing frenzy. Drain the swamp my ass. We need to put an end to the corrupt president elected and his cronies. We need to fight harder for income equality and equal opportunity. Make America Real Again.

Donald Trump cares about Donald Trump and doesn't give two shits about the working class he exploits.

[Exodus]

I hope he is the best president that has ever lived or will ever live so people would stfu.

So much for that...

[Adam Strange]

Why is my mobile bill so high, and why is it rising?

https://promarket.org/how-pro-compet...less-industry/

If you don't want to read the whole article, just skip to the last paragraph and the last graph.

[mu4]

Why is my mobile bill so high, and why is it rising?

https://promarket.org/how-pro-compet...less-industry/

If you don't want to read the whole article, just skip to the last paragraph and the last graph.

There is actually a thermodynamic explanation to all this actually which shows this to basically true.

However the rules and practice of modern economics is more classical mechanics and thus it cannot truly understand the informational systems which represent what is happening. ]

Succinctly a lot of what ppl see as "wealth" is entropic and what is called overheating in the business cycle is when the entropy of the system is too high. There is much more to this which I do not understand.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermoeconomics

I do want to read this book.

http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1...w-of-economics

Which I think is thinking about it in a similar way as I, it is written by a German physicist who expounded on ideas of

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicholas_Georgescu-Roegen Ironically(maybe not so much) a political refugee from Romania.

I think until humanity get a good grasp of economics in a thermodynamic sense and able to resist the political forces which wishes to keep this understanding silent, there is unlikely to be any long term ability to manage societies towards newer structures.

At the present time I think only the Chinese have a opportunity to adopt this viewpoint. This is because they are still open to novel modes of thinking and seek to succeed without the collapse western society is facing.

They're at least hiring people who are on these tracks.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeremy_Rifkin

There is some issue with how these individuals think about the topic however and the inherent issue with understanding the world is one of passive compliance to this understanding, where active resistance is another and perhaps better option.

[Raver]

https://theintercept.com/2017/01/30/...ar-old-sister/

[Adam Strange]

Your Daily Trump:

Day 11.

http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-s...torney-general

[Chae]

[Adam Strange]

I know I shouldn't post twice a day on this topic, but today was a big day for Trump. He met with Big Pharma.

http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-dru...resident-trump

Here are the numbers on what the Pharmaceutical Industry makes by gaming the market. Just read the last paragraph if you just want the take-away.

http://cepr.net/blogs/beat-the-press...t+the+Press%29

Man, I hope the guys who voted for Trump really like that wall he's building. While the working class is distracted by building a wall*, Trump and his buddies are busy back home stealing their future.

*http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank...on-in-the-u-s/

[Chae]

@Trump and entourage, whose entire ideology is based on this:

[Chae]

Shots fired, Trump supporters

[Chae]

[End]

Sad fact is the Native Americans were victims of two major factors, the "Virgin Soil" effect and the Population Explosion of Europe coupled with a high degree of maritime knowledge. There was practically nothing the natives could have done without literal divine intervention in regards to their plight. Once Cortez landed the germs his boys unknowingly carried spelled mass death for the natives. I could go into a lot of things but suffice it to say we merely benefited from having the right immunities at the right time.

The second thing that screwed em' over was Europe's population explosion and the somewhat unique tendency of Europeans to be radical individualists. This is why we/they are so concerned about universal ethics. Without a universal "in" group that everyone can claim they belong to the ethic necessarily become universal. After all, if we can't fully form an Us vs. Them axis on some superficial bullshit level then we'll have to devise a universal ethic just to even function as a society. This is the unique legacy of Europe, radical individualism. It is both a gift and a curse as, if some group has that universal in-group preference gets a foothold within that society they will be quite able to exploit the "high-trust" individualists out of house and home with minimal collective effort (e.g. look at (((who))) controls all the major cultural institutions of the West right now). Sadly for them nothing pisses off an individualist like kindness scorned/exploited for selfish reasons. Rudyard Kipling wrote a poem about that, and we Saxons are just about ready to hate. Pray you are not in the blast radius of that coming storm .

[Adam Strange]

The cure for politically motivated reasoning: http://www.vox.com/science-and-healt...ahan-curiosity

[Suz]

Anyway, my two cents -

I have a really hard to time understanding how trumpet won.
I know he had a following, and maybe it's just that most of my social circle and extended social circle knows better than to elect someone like that to the presidency, but the vast majority of people in my environment (even people I am not closely acquainted with or at all) were very opposed to him.
Could he have campaigned in a highly strategic way to calculate an electoral college win? maybe.... but idk I'm kind of skeptical.
If the Russians hacked certain things during the campaign, I don't put it past them to have hacked the voting system to give him the win in certain strategic states (e.g. Florida, Michigan). Maybe when he was ranting about a "rigged" election, he was actually projecting. Or deflecting attention from the actual rigging from his end. Also him having made such a huge deal about it and the public's negative response to that makes it really hard to call him out on it now. Strategic move.

Now that we basically are compelled to accept him as president, I am very anxious about what the future holds. Nostradamus predicted his win and Nostradamus also predicts a world war to happen as a result, with bad famine. In any case, I don't need Nostradamus' predictions to see that he's going to bring us into a war of some kind. I see many parallels with how ****** came to power, and I see every step trumpet taking bringing us closer to a totalitarian dictatorship where the press is enslaved by the government and the judiciary system becomes a puppet to the dictator. I'm not particularly reassured by the prospect of trumpet being impeached; if so, pence & gang (bannon, sessions, etc) take over and that's when the Nazism gets down to the real business. Religious minorities, non-white ethnicities, LGBT all are going to be oppressed (at best), bullied, or cleansed (at worst). It seems farfetched now, but the Holocaust would have seemed farfetched too when ****** first was elected to power. I'd be willing to give trumpet's administration the benefit of the doubt, but so far he and they are all acting very predictably, exactly as I thought they would.

[Adam Strange]

Police and Firefighters are shocked to learn that Republicans are Anti-Union

http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-dru...are-anti-union

Who could have known? I mean, who, really?

[Adam Strange]

And now for a break:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pRt4dFBkCA

From this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_n4CVpkTGc

[akash]

it is getting easier and easier to see how far trump is from being the bombastic eminence some say he is

[Adam Strange]

I was listening to a podcast last night on Bernie Madoff (http://the1a.org/shows/2017-01-31/be...e-prison-tapes), and Madoff sounds remarkably similar to Donald Trump. The words he uses, the cadence, everything. Madoff was great at misdirecting people who trusted him while stealing from them for his own aggrandizement.


Trump has been very busy in his first weeks in office, but has actually gotten very little done. He looks like he's doing stuff, and that might be enough for his base. http://www.vox.com/policy-and-politi...ccomplishments

How a CIA veteran views Trump's relationship with Russia: http://www.vox.com/conversations/201...ia-white-house

and here: http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-dru...resident-trump

Because: http://angrybearblog.com/2017/02/the...en-botch.html?

and here: http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-s...er-tiger-china

However, if you think Trump supporters are giving up on him, you are wrong. Because they knew who they were voting for. http://angrybearblog.com/2017/02/the...17-begins.html

[mu4]

I was listening to a podcast last night on Bernie Madoff (http://the1a.org/shows/2017-01-31/be...e-prison-tapes), and Madoff sounds remarkably similar to Donald Trump. The words he uses, the cadence, everything. Madoff was great at misdirecting people who trusted him while stealing from them for his own aggrandizement.


Trump has been very busy in his first weeks in office, but has actually gotten very little done. He looks like he's doing stuff, and that might be enough for his base. http://www.vox.com/policy-and-politi...ccomplishments

How a CIA veteran views Trump's relationship with Russia: http://www.vox.com/conversations/201...ia-white-house

and here: http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-dru...resident-trump

Because: http://angrybearblog.com/2017/02/the...en-botch.html?

and here: http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-s...er-tiger-china

However, if you think Trump supporters are giving up on him, you are wrong. Because they knew who they were voting for. http://angrybearblog.com/2017/02/the...17-begins.html

Ultimately this is something his supporters want, they know what they're getting. At its core this is a existential crisis for the oldest as they deal with how to hand off to the younger generations, in many ways it's a rot that has grown cancerous.

[Tigerfadder]

Isnt this the textbook aristocratic way of leading the country as oppose to the democratic. Anyhow I do not think it be that bad, its just a different order things are being made. After all a lot of Americans voted for him, not being afraid of their lifes or so. I never understood the big fuss after the election. You can not change something that happened.

[Computer Loser]

What do you think of something like stop and frisk, this is the problem, even american citizens can be stopped if they look like a "illegal". ).

1. We aren’t discussing police methods to reduce crime. I was talking about immigrants specifically coming to the US illegally. But...

2. Stop and frisk would more accurately apply to both blacks and hispanics, not just people that look illegal.

3. Stop and frisk was ruled constitutional in 1968; if you have reasonable suspicion that they are armed and dangerous and don’t have time to get a search warrant, you can do stop and frisk. The controversy comes because this is largely subjective. But again, this is controversy with a law already established and is off-topic.

I don't think you really understand how the laws are being perverted to hurt legal immigrants, most of the people affected by the bans were not illegal immigrants, they were people who had VISAs. ).

Again, I was specifically talking about immigrants illegally crossing the border from Mexico to USA. But if you want to talk about the travel ban…

Total muslim nations: 53
# of muslim nations affected: 7

The reason why Trump picked those 7: Because Obama felt like those were most infiltrated by ISIS so Trump is using this as a guide.

Statistics first day this temporary halt was implemented

Number of people that came in from those 7 countries: 325,000
Number of people that were inconvenienced for further questioning: 109

109/325,000 = 0.0003

Yes, there were HUGE mistakes during the rollout. Citizens, translators, officials, green card holders, etc were affected by this but this was resolved the next day.

For example, my Yemini friend’s dad had no trouble flying to Yemen and back because he’s a US citizen.

Your argument is meaningless when the most onerous actions are against legal immigrants not illegal ones. ).

1. Sources? Statistics? What was the nature of the onerous actions against legal immigrants? Are you talking about the current temporary travel ban or the deportation of ILLEGAL criminals, child molesters, drug dealers? Which LEGAL immigrant cases are you referring to thats been affected by the presidency. (BTW, did you watch the video I posted on Clinton and Obama's stance on illegal immigration. What did you think of their opinion)

2. People are having this impression that doors are being kicked down and innocent immigrants are being hand-cuffed and thrown out of the country or that all Muslims are being banned without knowing the nuances of what’s actually going on. This is EXTREMELY intellectually dishonest.

Your argument is also meaningless when you don’t give specifics.

Most of the court fights right now are about how to handle legal immigrants, including those seeking asylum(these are legal immigrants until they get their due process).

1. Justice Department attorneys/Federal judges have been trying to deny the immigration orders from the president himself. An example of this includes the actions of former attorney general Sally Yates (Which, BTW, Liberal Harvard law professors said was wrong/politically motivated.)

2. The president isn't changing or violating any laws or bypassing congress. Immigration to the US is a privilege NOT a right. It's perfectly OK for the president, as commander in chief, to protect Americans by temporarily halting immigration. Obama and Carter DID THE SAME THING (funny how nobody ever mentions this.)

3. I agree it is a tough call. There are innocent refugees fleeing persecution, especially the Christian minorities. There’s a huge humanitarian component in this matter. However, at the same time, something has to be done or nothing will ever change. The US also can’t please everyone and you can’t expect them to be the world’s hospital/shelter, something has to give.

[mu4]

1. We aren’t discussing police methods to reduce crime. I was talking about immigrants specifically coming to the US illegally. But...

2. Stop and frisk would more accurately apply to both blacks and hispanics, not just people that look illegal.

3. Stop and frisk was ruled constitutional in 1968; if you have reasonable suspicion that they are armed and dangerous and don’t have time to get a search warrant, you can do stop and frisk. The controversy comes because this is largely subjective. But again, this is controversy with a law already established and is off-topic.

And any other group that ICE/the enforcement officers wants to targets or are asked to target. The issue is corruption.

Stop and frisk is the legal issue that is going to be used to stop legal immigrants by ICE and any group which falls under "alien". The language will be vague given the current inclination of this administration, to allow for people to be stopped for immigration offense not just "that they are armed and dangerous". And this is a very dangerous line to draw as "who is an immigrant" as being equal to "armed and dangerous". Ultimately this law will allow for action based on mere appearance and not any sort of armed and dangerous.

Again, I was specifically talking about immigrants illegally crossing the border from Mexico to USA. But if you want to talk about the travel ban…

Total muslim nations: 53
# of muslim nations affected: 7

The reason why Trump picked those 7: Because Obama felt like those were most infiltrated by ISIS so Trump is using this as a guide.

Statistics first day this temporary halt was implemented

Number of people that came in from those 7 countries: 325,000
Number of people that were inconvenienced for further questioning: 109

109/325,000 = 0.0003

Once again the issue is corruption but let's talk statistics.

That number of 325,000 from those 7 countries is wrong, for 325000 people to fly in a day from those 7 countries that would be over 1000 planes and that seems unlikely for these 7 countries. You might be talking about all international passengers but that doesn't mean anything really. It only took them a 1 days to deny due process to the 109 people you want to talk about(since people stopped flying here after it got put in or were stopped at the gate).

It's not mere inconvenience but they were held without due process and right to see a lawyer until individuals were able to ascertain due process for them thru legal struggle.

oh yea here, someone already fact checked this bullshit, stop feeding your brain on propaganda.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.c76c0fbb6bba

Yes, there were HUGE mistakes during the rollout. Citizens, translators, officials, green card holders, etc were affected by this but this was resolved the next day.

For example, my Yemini friend’s dad had no trouble flying to Yemen and back because he’s a US citizen.

They specifically prevent access to the targeted individuals and denied them due process by refusing to let them see a lawyer, it's only because of the efforts against this that this rollout was halted. The reason the damage was limited is because this was stopped legally and people were even allowed on the planes at their boarding location.

1. Sources? Statistics? What was the nature of the onerous actions against legal immigrants? Are you talking about the current temporary travel ban or the deportation of ILLEGAL criminals, child molesters, drug dealers? Which LEGAL immigrant cases are you referring to thats been affected by the presidency. (BTW, did you watch the video I posted on Clinton and Obama's stance on illegal immigration. What did you think of their opinion)

2. People are having this impression that doors are being kicked down and innocent immigrants are being hand-cuffed and thrown out of the country or that all Muslims are being banned without knowing the nuances of what’s actually going on. This is EXTREMELY intellectually dishonest. Your argument is also meaningless when you don’t give specifics.

1. Justice Department attorneys/Federal judges have been trying to deny the immigration orders from the president himself. An example of this includes the actions of former attorney general Sally Yates (Which, BTW, Liberal Harvard law professors said was wrong/politically motivated.)

2. The president isn't changing or violating any laws or bypassing congress. Immigration to the US is a privilege NOT a right. It's perfectly OK for the president, as commander in chief, to protect Americans by temporarily halting immigration. Obama and Carter DID THE SAME THING (funny how nobody ever mentions this.)

3. I agree it is a tough call. There are innocent refugees fleeing persecution, especially the Christian minorities. There’s a huge humanitarian component in this matter. However, at the same time, something has to be done or nothing will ever change. The US also can’t please everyone and you can’t expect them to be the world’s hospital/shelter, something has to give.

I specifically didn't talk about deportations because these were in effect with Obama, I am only talking things which are going towards corruption, which are largely a matter of ambiguous laws and prejudiced enforcement. These shifts are hard to measure statistically in the present.

It's only been a few weeks so there are no real specifics or statistics to talk about but there is definitely ambiguous laws and prejudiced enforcement being discussed and some put into orders. Carter and Obama might have halted immigration but they didn't make campaign promises about banning a select group of people either. And ultimately this is once again a matter of corruption.

You have no idea how much harm can be done, or how much harm will be done, if this is not heavily fought against, and you have no statistics to back it up beyond the effects of the action on a single short time frame which was prevented from having greater harm. Only history of humanity can inform us of the great evil and harm that can happen thru actions like this and history is not pretty.

Ultimately this is a issue of corruption, the consequences are only being reduced because the efforts are there to prevent it.

It's extremely intellectually disingenuous for you talk about harm when the harm is largely in the future. And the effect of the conflict that's is occurring will have a major role in preventing that harm.

If the harm is not prevented, you will have many more statistics humanity can talk about in the future.

Here you are lying about the real statistics, talking about statistics and facts of things that have yet to occur and are being prevented by people who are working very hard to keep those statistics from coming to fruition. The world will be much better if the statistics on the harm that can happen is minimal.

Stop being intellectually disingenuous because it will get you nowhere.

I have very little intellectual stake and am not a policy wonk. I could care less about the intellectual side of this, politics is about struggle. And the struggle is against a corrupt administration which threatens harm the very core of America. And what I can do in this struggle is donate to support the legal resistance I want to see towards the future harm which I want to prevent.

[Computer Loser]

And any other group that ICE/the enforcement officers wants to targets or are asked to target. The issue is corruption.
Stop and frisk is the legal issue that is going to be used to stop legal immigrants by ICE and any group which falls under "alien". The language will be vague given the current inclination of this administration, to allow for people to be stopped for immigration offense not just "that they are armed and dangerous". And this is a very dangerous line to draw as "who is an immigrant" as being equal to "armed and dangerous". Ultimately this law will allow for action based on mere appearance and not any sort of armed and dangerous

I'm still not sure where you're going with this. Yes you get stopped for being suspicious. Now whether or not looking like an immigrant increases your chances of being stopped and frisked and how this is corrupt is just your opinion. Yes if there was no reasonable suspicion that's bullshit for being stopped and frisked. I think we can both agree with that.

My question is, is there a specific new policy implemented during this Trump presidency that involves stop and frisk? Or is there a specific problem with innocent legal immigrants being stop and frisked right now?

I'm not aware of any, please enlighten me.

Once again the issue is corruption but let's talk statistics.

Lol. Well you need to back up/substantiate your claims of corruption with facts, evidence and statistics. I can just as easily go off on a philosophical rant about whether or not these policies are corrupt. But you need the former otherwise your argument just falls apart.

That number of 325,000 from those 7 countries is wrong, for 325000 people to fly in a day from those 7 countries that would be over 1000 planes and that seems unlikely for these 7 countries. You might be talking about all international passengers but that doesn't mean anything really.

Touché mu4. That was my honest mistake. 325,000 international passengers. Glad you pointed that out.

It only took them a 1 days to deny due process to the 109 people you want to talk about(since people stopped flying here after it got put in or were stopped at the gate).
It's not mere inconvenience but they were held without due process and right to see a lawyer until individuals were able to ascertain due process for them thru legal struggle.

They specifically prevent access to the targeted individuals and denied them due process by refusing to let them see a lawyer, it's only because of the efforts against this that this rollout was halted.

Lol. How do you even give due process to people that aren't even US citizens. Do we now give people that don't even live on American soil US constitutional rights.

The reason the damage was limited is because this was stopped legally and people were even allowed on the planes at their boarding location.

Yes the 109 were detained. They implemented this policy right away without warning. The reason for this was to prevent potential terrorists from getting in before it was implemented. Of course there would be problems. I never claimed it was a perfect system. The rollout was terrible. But again, it was corrected.

oh yea here, someone already fact checked this bullshit, stop feeding your brain on propaganda.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.c76c0fbb6bba

1. 109 WERE detained. That was factually correct.
2. The 90,000 number is the ANNUAL number of people that COULD be affected TEMPORARILY.
3. What WAS bullshit was the media uproar, exaggeration, and images to suggest A LOT more than the 109. And bullshit headlines like "MUSLIM BAN"

I specifically didn't talk about deportations because these were in effect with Obama, I am only talking things which are going towards corruption, which are largely a matter of ambiguous laws and prejudiced enforcement. These shifts are hard to measure statistically in the present.
It's only been a few weeks so there are no real specifics or statistics to talk about but there is definitely ambiguous laws and prejudiced enforcement being discussed and some put into orders.

Like I mentioned, the 7 countries was a list put together by president Obama. These were countries suspected of being infiltrated by ISIS. How is this ambiguous and prejudiced.

Carter and Obama might have halted immigration but they didn't make campaign promises about banning a select group of people either. And ultimately this is once again a matter of corruption.

Yes, you're right. Carter and Obama didn't make campaign promises. But they still CARRIED OUT THE ACT of halting immigration, specifically to protect the American people.

ISIS is a problem. Trump made a promise to address this problem and he told the American people what he was going to do, and he did it. How is that corruption?

You have no idea how much harm can be done, or how much harm will be done, if this is not heavily fought against, and you have no statistics to back it up beyond the effects of the action on a single short time frame which was prevented from having greater harm.

And ultimately this is once again a matter of corruption.

Again, what's your argument for corruption if this is primarily to protect the American people, first and foremost?

And harm? Are you fucking serious. Lol. People are being BEHEADED. People are being BLOWN UP. Terrorism is a real problem. Do you not care about this harm?

If you and your family lived in a crime-ridden area I'm willing to bet that you as a father would DAMN WELL do everything he could to protect his family; install security cameras, insure there were proper locks on the doors, hell, get a fucking canine to be the guard dog.




Similarly, as POTUS, it's not unreasonable for him to find a way to protect US citizens first.

No, it's not going to be perfect. Yes, there will be little problems that arise with the system. But something has to be done or nothing will change. There will be some wins but there will also be losses and inconveniences along the way. THAT'S THE UGLY REALITY. You can't completely please everyone when making decisions. You can't give Usain Bolt and all his competitors gold medals when they across the finish line. Something has to give.

This isn't corruption.

Only history of humanity can inform us of the great evil and harm that can happen thru actions like this and history is not pretty.

Again, that's why I mentioned Obama and Carter. They did the same thing. What harmful implications can we extrapolate from their actions?

Also, look at what's going on in Germany; their refugee policy has revealed 142,500 crimes during the first six months of 2016.

...and history is not pretty

Ultimately this is a issue of corruption, the consequences are only being reduced because the efforts are there to prevent it.
It's extremely intellectually disingenuous for you talk about harm when the harm is largely in the future. And the effect of the conflict that's is occurring will have a major role in preventing that harm.
If the harm is not prevented, you will have many more statistics humanity can talk about in the future.

So then where do you draw the line?

Do we simply let everyone into this country? No, that's fucking retarded and we'll just end up killing more people. THAT'S corruption.

We need standards.

Trump lowered the cap to 50,000 immigrants. That's roughly the same as it was 3 years back. Lets not exaggerate what's actually happening.

Here you are lying about the real statistics, talking about statistics and facts of things that have yet to occur and are being prevented by people who are working very hard to keep those statistics from coming to fruition. The world will be much better if the statistics on the harm that can happen is minimal.

Stop being intellectually disingenuous because it will get you nowhere.

I have very little intellectual stake and am not a policy wonk. I could care less about the intellectual side of this, politics is about struggle.

Sorry but the reality of it is we have to be intellectual. Getting emotional and irrationally lashing out is the last thing this country needs. THAT'S when you cross a dangerous line and cause unnecessary division. If you want a hug box/circle jerk session where everyone pats your back and agrees with you, discussing politics isn't the right place to be. There's a lot of Trump bashing/virtue signaling going on and I want to offer a different perspective than 99.9% of the people here. And who knows, maybe it'll prevent one less person from wearing a vagina hat and violently protesting the streets while destroying property/doing harm while simultaneously carrying a sign that says LOVE TRUMPS HATE. lol

And the struggle is against a corrupt administration which threatens harm the very core of America. And what I can do in this struggle is donate to support the legal resistance I want to see towards the future harm which I want to prevent.

LOL!!!!

[Rebelondeck]

I was really surprised to see an American president overtly exhibit a lot of the behaviours of my ESTp uncovered profile; I would have thought the administration would have kept them under wraps - at least to the extent that they did with Bush. To seemingly turn him so much to the dark side, there must be something else in play here more than a lack of adoration.

http://www.socionics.com/articles/unestp.html

a.k.a. I/O

[Socionics Is A Cult]

Donald Trump Is Living Out All the Ridiculous Stereotypes of a Female President

[Adam Strange]

Here is an important analysis of Trump's psychology: http://www.vox.com/policy-and-politi...eralism-losing

It basically agrees with @Rebelondeck's article above. (http://www.socionics.com/articles/unestp.html)