EIE/LSI Duality Thread (ISTj and ENFj)

[SpreeFirit]

Okay this is the part I don't get.

I don't see it as type related at all as to whether someone likes to do insults with friends. Maybe there are type related differences in how it's done, I didn't check that closely. But I do recall an LII trying to pick at me, using his own version of throwing insults, and he got a response from me that he found too aggressive (and it was not a joke at all from my part, let alone light). So he retreated. Then I asked why he was even doing this and he said this is a way for him to see who he can be friends with, because they won't be responding like that or something. And yeah, no, I found his style too passive-aggressively sarcastic.

The other thing I don't get is why this is such fun if an "attack" is not done for real, for some real target/goal, just as a light joke or whatever. "Joke" here specifically means light, not serious and not intense enough in any way. Mix that with just pretending to do aggression and I'll find that boring and aimless pretty quickly. But then I don't know how EIEs do it I guess. I have known two EIEs for a decade or more, they are pretty close friends of mine, and neither of them tried to insult me like that, ever. After reading up on these things here before, I actually asked each of them as to why not. They said they just didn't think I'd want that. Okay, no idea about these things. End of story. :shrug.

Last time I did regularly insult others intentionally like that (not entirely serious stuff, though it probably looked too aggressive poking, again, was NOT light jokes at all, so it was serious in that sense) was when I was a kid in middle school and I then got hated on stuff so I assumed that was part of the reason. Again, no idea. Been many years ago. Since then, almost no experience with any of this stuff with people except for definitely not entertaining things like the annoying passive-aggressive jabs like that LII example above. The closest example I can recall is when I was once in some unusual mood while talking to an ILI who didn't mind me going pretty intense crazy (NOT light and most definitely not passive-aggressive jabs) and who actually enjoyed it.




Angry, for real, or as a joke? As a joke = doesn't compute for me. I have no problem with real anger, as fucking angry as you want to get, sure no problem. But mixing it with just joking, I don't get what you mean by that. I don't know what kind of mood exactly that is. See the rest of my post above.

Oh and reading your exchanges with Pole Ninja here, where you started with saying the sadistic thingy about LSIs, I'd have just taken that as some generalization meant in a humorous tone, and not at all directed at me so no reaction from my part when I read that beyond finding it a bit funny. (Not too lightly funny, a bit more intense kind actually, but just a little dose of that.)

Yep, I totally understand what you meant above.
So, I think it may be a little more difficult to fully express online as opposed to being in person and actually interacting with me. I will try my best here.
What I'm basically trying to express here is that betas have this exclusive sort of intensity to them that I haven't seen in other quadras. In their physical movements, and also in the way they speak. (But not in every case, obviously) So what I'm saying is-when LSI's and I banter-we tend to have a pretty aggressive way of speaking to each other. It just takes on a different tone than with different types. But abbbbbbsoluuutely not always. Constantly bantering with ANYONE gets extremely annoying. I would hate to have a friendship that was built on that alone. That really wouldn't be much of a friendship at all. Obviously that would take away any kind of depth out of the relationship. But when we DO have these kind of exchanges, we just say things to each other that generally are pretty blunt, and make other humans gasp. Lol.
I have included some examples for you. Lol I hope this doesn't sound retarted as shit. It isn't the same online, feel me dawg?

#1. Okay so I met my friend's LSI father for the first time, and only knew him for the few days that I spent the night at her house. The VERY FIRST THING he said to me wasn't hey, hello or nice to meet you, it was..."There's that nappy headed girl." LOL. That sounds really tame over the internet, but you would have had to be there to understand how funny it was. Because for one- he said it in a way that could have been very easily taken as an insult if it was said to anyone else. On top of that, we were in a formal setting, it was surprising to everyone around us listening, because he was a person who had a really kind and calm exterior with others. He was a very quiet, kind, simple man. You just would never expect him to say something like that. But you see, it is that feeling of familiarity that duals get around me. They just KNOW I won't respond in a hostile or offended manner, but in a completely welcoming manner. Oh man..It really was such a hilarious moment, and everyone in the room laughed for a good few minutes. He was awesome and I liked him immediately... Actually, my ENFP friend was jealous of the way he treated me. When we were standing in front of him, she kept jokingly insisting that he "liked her more." He just winked at me with a smirk, and gave me a tight hug. He told me he loved me and that he would miss me as I was leaving. Apparently, after I did leave, he went on and on about me, saying I was beautiful and talented and this and that, and that his daughter needed more friends like me. (his daughter was EIE, also. She was such a good, genuine friend) I actually teared up lmao. Seriously though. So sweet. <3

Okay, whatever. Moving on. Here are some more examples.

#2. Just YESTERDAY I was talking to one of my LSI's at work. We will call him Drew. What I love about our friendship is the quick, drastic change of tone in our conversations. We are really warm with each other and then ALL OF A SUDDEN it flips and we play fight...viciously. So, he always greets me by saying "Hi, my love" and I say the same thing. Well, a few minutes after we greeted each other, I walked up to him and got nose to nose with him and with a blank expression I told him, "go the fuck home and go back to your cave, you're embarrassing me, and don't need to be seen in the public eye." Hahaha. One of our homiez at work said "OMG!!" and another gasped because they couldn't tell I was joking. He just smiled and laughed a bit.

3# That same LSI was working up front, and an ENFP and I were chatting at a table nearby. It was really busy and I was about to leave, but she was still clocked in and supposed to be working. He can't stand her, so he came over and firmly told us "Go find something to do. You're fine to stay here SpreeFirit, but Alex, you need to go do something productive and not just sit here all day." She got really upset and looked like she was about to cry. She muttered that was was rude and sulked as she walked away. I felt bad for her, lol. She's a really nice person, and he is always picking at her. I have to tell him to back off of her sometimes lol! But yeah, he says things very very firmly, and she didn't take to that well. If he had directed that statement at me, I wouldn't have reacted the way she did. I've seen quite a few of this conflict between IEE's and my duals.

Alright, well these are just a few examples because I don't want to overwhelm you with any more silly stories.

Oh and also, when I meant "I can get angry," I meant, when they say playfully rude things to me, I sometimes pretend to get offended or angry at what they have said. It's just all in good fun. They don't take me seriously when his happens.

I think LSI's and I interact this way to subconsciously release some sort of inner tension and to poke fun at ourselves and our need for control. At our core I think we both truly love control, and we sense that. It might be an aristocratic type of humor also. It's great, to dispel that, without damaging anyone or hurting anyone in the process.
Did this make a bit more sense?

[Myst]

Yep, I totally understand what you meant above.
So, I think it may be a little more difficult to fully express online as opposed to being in person and actually interacting with me. I will try my best here.
What I'm basically trying to express here is that betas have this exclusive sort of intensity to them that I haven't seen in other quadras. In their physical movements, and also in the way they speak. (But not in every case, obviously) So what I'm saying is-when LSI's and I banter-we tend to have a pretty aggressive way of speaking to each other. It just takes on a different tone than with different types. But abbbbbbsoluuutely not always. Constantly bantering with ANYONE gets extremely annoying. I would hate to have a friendship that was built on that alone. That really wouldn't be much of a friendship at all. Obviously that would take away any kind of depth out of the relationship. But when we DO have these kind of exchanges, we just say things to each other that generally are pretty blunt, and make other humans gasp. Lol.
I have included some examples for you. Lol I hope this doesn't sound retarted as shit. It isn't the same online, feel me dawg? (...)

I think I understand the intensity thing but not entirely when applied to non-serious insults. I'd have to see your examples in action, the tone/expression etc. I've been wondering before tho' if my running coach is LSI, he's a bit like this. Intense poking that makes me have extra readiness to respond but it doesn't seem like an actual insult in the wrong way. So the readiness I get isn't hostile, either.

Eh though, I wouldn't do what your friend's LSI father does, I can't imagine what kind of environment it would be where I'd be like that. But then you say he has duals around in his family, maybe to do with that... Dunno, as I said, my two friends I mentioned don't try to approach me in this way for god knows exactly what reason.

And don't worry, it wasn't too retarded. Just about not.

#2. Just YESTERDAY I was talking to one of my LSI's at work. We will call him Drew. What I love about our friendship is the quick, drastic change of tone in our conversations. We are really warm with each other and then ALL OF A SUDDEN it flips and we play fight...viciously. So, he always greets me by saying "Hi, my love" and I say the same thing. Well, a few minutes after we greeted each other, I walked up to him and got nose to nose with him and with a blank expression I told him, "go the fuck home and go back to your cave, you're embarrassing me, and don't need to be seen in the public eye." Hahaha. One of our homiez at work said "OMG!!" and another gasped because they couldn't tell I was joking. He just smiled and laughed a bit.

That one sounds impossible enough to not be real. That is, I wouldn't think it's meant seriously.

3# That same LSI was working up front, and an ENFP and I were chatting at a table nearby. It was really busy and I was about to leave, but she was still clocked in and supposed to be working. He can't stand her, so he came over and firmly told us "Go find something to do. You're fine to stay here SpreeFirit, but Alex, you need to go do something productive and not just sit here all day." She got really upset and looked like she was about to cry. She muttered that was was rude and sulked as she walked away. I felt bad for her, lol. She's a really nice person, and he is always picking at her. I have to tell him to back off of her sometimes lol! But yeah, he says things very very firmly, and she didn't take to that well. If he had directed that statement at me, I wouldn't have reacted the way she did. I've seen quite a few of this conflict between IEE's and my duals.

Reminds me of coach again if I imagine this "picking at" kind of firmness right.

Alright, well these are just a few examples because I don't want to overwhelm you with any more silly stories.

Oh and also, when I meant "I can get angry," I meant, when they say playfully rude things to me, I sometimes pretend to get offended or angry at what they have said. It's just all in good fun. They don't take me seriously when his happens.

I think LSI's and I interact this way to subconsciously release some sort of inner tension and to poke fun at ourselves and our need for control. At our core I think we both truly love control, and we sense that. It might be an aristocratic type of humor also. It's great, to dispel that, without damaging anyone or hurting anyone in the process.
Did this make a bit more sense?

Oh that makes sense, yeah, about the control thing especially. I don't really think I know how to do that while keeping it really just funny and not get misunderstood, tho', let alone put myself in the right mood for it on my own. Maybe I spent too much time around Ne/Si types. Also, I have other ways to release tension.

[SpreeFirit]

I think I understand the intensity thing but not entirely when applied to non-serious insults. I'd have to see your examples in action, the tone/expression etc. I've been wondering before tho' if my running coach is LSI, he's a bit like this. Intense poking that makes me have extra readiness to respond but it doesn't seem like an actual insult in the wrong way. So the readiness I get isn't hostile, either.

Eh though, I wouldn't do what your friend's LSI father does, I can't imagine what kind of environment it would be where I'd be like that. But then you say he has duals around in his family, maybe to do with that... Dunno, as I said, my two friends I mentioned don't try to approach me in this way for god knows exactly what reason.

And don't worry, it wasn't too retarded. Just about not.




That one sounds impossible enough to not be real. That is, I wouldn't think it's meant seriously.




Reminds me of coach again if I imagine this "picking at" kind of firmness right.




Oh that makes sense, yeah, about the control thing especially. I don't really think I know how to do that while keeping it really just funny and not get misunderstood, tho', let alone put myself in the right mood for it on my own. Maybe I spent too much time around Ne/Si types. Also, I have other ways to release tension.

Ahhhhh! Your very last sentence...
Bad ass mutha fuckaaaa

Lol so, you spend time around a lot of Ne/Si users? Like which types specifically? Do you really think that has altered your personality in any way?

[Myst]

Ahhhhh! Your very last sentence...
Bad ass mutha fuckaaaa

Lol so, you spend time around a lot of Ne/Si users? Like which types specifically? Do you really think that has altered your personality in any way?

I spent too much time around them in a group yeah. Some Ne egos. No, I wasn't trying to say it altered my personality.

[SpreeFirit]

I spent too much time around them in a group yeah. Some Ne egos. No, I wasn't trying to say it altered my personality.

Interesting. However, I can't help but notice you said you spent "too much time around them." So, why do you say that? Do you just mean they annoyed you somehow?

[Myst]

Interesting. However, I can't help but notice you said you spent "too much time around them." So, why do you say that? Do you just mean they annoyed you somehow?

The feeling of annoyance would be mutual, I think.

Actually, I get along decently well with some of them (and then not with others) but in terms of humour, definitely no shared taste, which is what the topic was here.

Let me know if that's clear or if you got any more questions

[SpreeFirit]

The feeling of annoyance would be mutual, I think.

Actually, I get along decently well with some of them (and then not with others) but in terms of humour, definitely no shared taste, which is what the topic was here.

Let me know if that's clear or if you got any more questions

Oh, that's definitely clear. But I most certainly always have more questions for you..

Yeah, I spend most of my time around betas and gammas. I naturally gravitate toward them.
My brother is IEI and has primarily alpha SF friends. The dynamic change is so drastic. The topic of conversation and overall mood of the room is different.
Let's just continue our PM so we don't continue to derail this thread! I'm not an ENFP you know!!

[EUDAEMONIUM]

This thread is making me think betas belong in the garbage

[EUDAEMONIUM]

Seriously though can an EIE or LSI describe a normal relationship that is relatable to normal human beings?

[Deductive Logic]

Seriously though can an EIE or LSI describe a normal relationship that is relatable to normal human beings?

Most EIE-LSI relationships are pretty normal. Sure, there's the undercurrent of possessiveness from both parties, but it's never usually so bad that it's problematic.

Take an LSI, just doing their thing. Filling their knowledge banks with information that could or could not be useful, absolutely enjoying spreadsheets or building things or just existing as they watch their favorite show or play their game. They like to tease other people by purposely saying things that are probably not socially appropriate just for the fun of the reaction. Suddenly....an EIE appears, and somehow, passion slowly enters the equation. LSI might say something completely inappropriate while the EIE hurriedly makes apologies as they try their best not to laugh and give the game away. EIE passionately rambles about the future or starts planning and LSI listens in a kind of quiet awe (or starts constructive criticism, which usually helps the EIE improve their vision to their relief).

LSIs are always the best people to go to for a crisis. For instance:

EIE: "OMG LSI I think my car is making weird noises. I think I messed it up somehow and it's been like two weeks and I'm not entirely sure WHAT I did. Help????"
LSI: "Okay, check the dash for this light, do you see it?"
EIE: "Yeah, I see it. What do I do? PLEASE tell me my car isn't going to explode or something, because could you imagine how much insurance I'd have to pay? (insert other rambling here) "
LSI: "Calm down. Okay, we can fix it like this. Go to the dealership and tell them you want them to check on your car. They should be able to see the problem and fix it there. You might have to pay them though."
EIE: "Oh, that's fine, I'd just rather not get blown up. So do I do that now?"
LSI: "Yeah."
EIE: "You're the best, you know that?"
(transcribed from a real conversation between me and my LSI best friend)

LSIs have a gift for simplifying things into easy concepts, to the point where my best friend literally has a catchphrase ("so do") when I whinge about stuff too much. LSIs are steady and constant, and EIEs are forward planning and emotionally hyperaware. That's what a normal EIE/LSI relationship is tbh.