and... why have the original contents of the poll not been restored?
and... why have the original contents of the poll not been restored?
I offered to do it, but FDG didn't seem to bother anymore.
, LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
Originally Posted by implied
i saw that, but i dont think his approval is necessary.
w/e though, i dont care particularly.
Ok, I have restored it.
No one is explaining anything.
I don't know any ENTJs.
If you're ESTP, you don't act or look like the ones with asubtype. You don't have that sleazy little smile. Or DO YOU. I don't sense that you're supervising me or you supervising the other infps. OR DO YOU? You do seem very logical and calm but this is the internet and perhaps you grew up in a stable environment and so is better at controlling emotions.
Isn't there a huge difference between ESTPs and ENTJs? How could you be between the two?
Do you still in contact with people or are you more prone to leaving that to them?
INFP
I still see both FDG and Ashton as ESTp, but then again the only ENTj point of reference I have in real life isn't exactly stable.
Ashton, I'm not reading your bullshit. I'm deeply offended that after a conversation that clearly showed that both of us are
It is not possible that I do everything listed under
We'd need to completely rebuild socionics in order to make this fit into the model without me being ESTp.
Morever, you're misadressing my motivations. I NEVER opened a thread on my type like rmncnew does blah blah or gilligan or whatever. There are motivations to change type, and when those motivations outweigh the ones that motivated the previous typing, then the previous is to be discarded. Mind-fucking? Actually, as an ENTj I had to mind-fuck the theory in order to make my intertype relationships fit into the model. However, right now as an ESTp they fit PERFECTLY. If that's mind-fucking, our definitions do not match.
My type, since I changed to ESTp, isn't viable of returning back, simply because it's the only logical possibility into the framework of socionics. If you wanna build an alternative theory, then I might be ENTj.
Just be sure to:
- Switch all the J P traits so that I can be J
- Swtich the Te and Se descriptions so that I can be Te
- Switch Aristo and Demo so that I can be Democratic
on and on and on and on.
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
I do, IRLI don't know any ENTJs.
If you're ESTP, you don't act or look like the ones with a
Depends on many many factors. I'm chill when I'm just hanging around and talking with people. It'd be stupid to be aggressive: all the uber-aggressive ESTps I know end up wasting their lives because they cannot control themselves. Moreover, it's more fun to be upbeat than to be angry, lol.Or DO YOU. I don't sense that you're supervising me or you supervising the other infps. OR DO YOU? You do seem very logical and calm but this is the internet and perhaps you grew up in a stable environment and so is better at controlling emotions.
In any case, when I'm "doing stuff" I'm far than calm. When playing-working-etc I become an ass, especially if I perceive the people that are playing-working with me as "inferior" in the given task.
Yes, the environment I grew up in was/is stable (home), not so much the outside (ghetto-ish till I was 13).
I'm not between the two.Isn't there a huge difference between ESTPs and ENTJs? How could you be between the two?
I tend to contact people when there is something to do with them. For example, if I want to go out, and there's nobody to go with, I'll ask a friend. Or if I need somebody to complete a team for a soccer game, etc.
Do you still in contact with people or are you more prone to leaving that to them?
Otherwise, no. Though it's not exact to say that "I leave that to them": most of the times I just don't think about it.
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
Things like your auto-biography and your behavior online - which is "trivially easy" to type - make it sound otherwise, and "anyone who can't see that is stupid".
You might say that you should keep a bit of an open mind to the possibility that your own self-developed and self-confirmed typing systems can also be wrong. If you assume that you're always typing people right, this is not "pompous" - it is stupid.
For instance, I understand that you agree that you have EP temperament according to its definitions. But in order to dismiss ESTp as a type, you have to state that the whole temperament side of socionics is bullshit. On the other hand, not only myself, but others on this forum, and socionists, do see the temperaments in the people around them as related to their supposed types.
This is not a proof that you are wrong and everyone else is right - the opposite can also be the case - but it shows that your own typing system already disagrees with others'. Who of course may all be stupid.
I think that the Ann Coulter side of the argument is a strawman. First, perhaps she is ESTp or something else. I am the first to admit that I typed her with few data. Second, with celebrities - especially of her sort, in the debating show - it's difficult to know how much of that is really their default mode. Someone who doesn't naturally like to useThat isn't my argument. I was simply using Ann Coulter as an example against your implication that
Finally, I don't see much point in discussing your type with you, because you very obviously tailor your own interpretation of what is valid or not in socionics to fit your own system. For instance, to point out the most obvious disagreement, right now I think that temperaments - especially when very evident - are a good indication. You disagree, so it's a non-starter.
And anyway, my main motivation in this discussion wasn't really about your type as such, but about your functional use. We seem to agree that - Sarah's strange intervention notwithstanding - that when you act like a bully you are shifting into
sarah? funny... for some reason I thought it was someone else... makes perfect sense though.
Why is my above post, which Expat is referring to, strange?
NiTe | Socionix
uhhh so you're not the one who changed the poll choices?
It seemed to appeal exclusively to emotion. Sure, I made a value judgement when referring to "arrogant, rude" etc but I think a case can be made for that judgement on an objective basis. You were basically implying that it would be a "bad thing" to connect such behavior to functions, rather than say that it was incorrect.
For what it's worth, I don't think FDG and Ashton are necessarily identicals. The internet, even with all manner of picture and video and audio, is still a pretty inadequate and deceptive medium. Expat was convinced FDG was his identical upon meeting him in person... anyway, you all seem bent on fighting to the death of it, so I'll leave you all alone.
"How could we forget those ancient myths that stand at the beginning of all races, the myths about dragons that at the last moment are transformed into princesses? Perhaps all the dragons in our lives are princesses who are only waiting to see us act, just once, with beauty and courage. Perhaps everything that frightens us is, in its deepest essence, something helpless that wants our love."
-- Rainer Maria Rilke, Letters to a Young Poet
Wait, that is not what I meant at all. I have no idea who did that. I did mean Sarah's post.
You are absolutely correct and that is why I will keep in mind that you can be mistaken. I did see differences but I attributed them mainly to the age difference.
Hm, interesting. Thanks. The post was kind of in two parts, which I don't think I differentiated well enough. I didn't intend the first half to be an emotional appeal---I actually meant that I think it's incorrect to attribute those particular adjectives to Se. I wasn't disagreeing that Ashton's comments are manifestations of Se, because I think they are, but rather that the particular adjectives you used ("arrogant, patronizing, and rude") aren't themselves inherently related to Se. I think those characteristics can be used to display Se, but that they can also be present when Se is not in use. I agree that what you said about "using such characteristics to bully others into silence" is probably Se (of course Se is not limited to that, etc etc)---but it's the way those things are used that I think is Se, not the characteristics themselves.It seemed to appeal exclusively to emotion. Sure, I made a value judgement when referring to "arrogant, rude" etc but I think a case can be made for that judgement on an objective basis. You were basically implying that it would be a "bad thing" to connect such behavior to functions, rather than say that it was incorrect.
NiTe | Socionix
?
Writing styles show how people think, or at least how they choose to represent their thought. I think its says loads about a person. Discussions say less, but I think if a person is being themselves in their writing it is a useful tool in socionics. Isn't that inclusive to socionics while MBTI is based solely on behavior (as in, it uses only behavior to type)?
Yes, i was going to mention this too, if noone else did. To me its not whether fabio and ashton are both estp or entj, but what case there is for ashton being estp. To my knowledge that argument is only furthered by fabio (that ashton is estp or the theory falls apart) because fabio believes strongly that they are the same type. i think the cases for fabio being estp and for ashton being estp (what are they) are different. its not to say that they arent the same type.You are absolutely correct and that is why I will keep in mind that you can be mistaken. I did see differences but I attributed them mainly to the age difference.
Everybody here lacks vital infos that impede a correct evluation of the question.Yes, i was going to mention this too, if noone else did. To me its not whether fabio and ashton are both estp or entj, but what case there is for ashton being estp. To my knowledge that argument is only furthered by fabio (that ashton is estp or the theory falls apart) because fabio believes strongly that they are the same type. i think the cases for fabio being estp and for ashton being estp (what are they) are different. its not to say that they arent the same type.You are absolutely correct and that is why I will keep in mind that you can be mistaken. I did see differences but I attributed them mainly to the age difference.
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
That is not the only argument.
ashton is estp or the theory falls apart because fabio is most definitely estp and they must be the same type because fabio feels they are the same type strongly, that is what i say is what fabio supports. As i said i am unaware of anyone else supporting this. I would have liked you to explain what you meant expat, but you don't have to if its already posted, and i will assume it is.
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