Elon Musk

[Adam Strange]

Elon Musk is pretty meh about Te info & operations, he has been outsourcing any organization and business operations to others:

"Elon Musk: A lot of people think I'm kind of a business person or something. Which is fine, I guess, business is fine. But like ummm really like with Space X Gwynne Shotwell is the chief operating manager, she kinda manages the eagle finance sales, and umm the general business activity."

@silke, how do you conclude that what he was talking about was not Te? Outsourcing is efficient and is what you do if you want to get a lot done in a short amount of time. No one in their right mind would try to do every little detail themselves, like making their own nuts and bolts. You can't develop the expertise fast enough to be taken seriously. You have to rely on other companies which have experience doing things, and you just act as an integrator. You sell the idea, you outsource everything that can be outsourced, and you only keep in-house the expertise that you can't find already in existence elsewhere. You inspect their incoming work before you integrate it and you promote your successes so you get more business. Plus you have people who keep track of the money.

I spend most of my time on engineering and interfacing with customers and a lot less on finding new business, but I'm acutely aware that other people keep the place running.

The space business was basically handed to Musk because congress wanted the space program to go private. He didn't really have to look too hard for that. I don't think he entirely planned it, either.

He seems embarrassed that he can't really explain what he does all day. I relate this to the idea that LIE's have an easy time accomplishing tasks and a hard time explaining why they are doing them. Musk may have had an Ah-Ha moment there in the interview, when he was trying to define what he does. His mind might have inadvertently strayed into "And why am I spending my day like that?" territory.

I was wavering between LIE and ILE for Musk, but @Myst's argument above about screwdrivers and engines convinced me that he's LIE.

*EDIT* I see that I just reiterated most of Myst's points. I need to learn to type faster.

[at sirac son of sirac]

@silke, how do you conclude that what he was talking about was not Te? Outsourcing is efficient and is what you do if you want to get a lot done in a short amount of time. No one in their right mind would try to do every little detail themselves, like making their own nuts and bolts. You can't develop the expertise fast enough to be taken seriously. You have to rely on other companies which have experience doing things, and you just act as an integrator. You sell the idea, you outsource everything that can be outsourced, and you only keep in-house the expertise that you can't find already in existence elsewhere. You inspect their incoming work before you integrate it and you promote your successes so you get more business. Plus you have people who keep track of the money.

I spend most of my time on engineering and interfacing with customers and a lot less on finding new business, but I'm acutely aware that other people keep the place running.

The space business was basically handed to Musk because congress wanted the space program to go private. He didn't really have to look too hard for that. I don't think he entirely planned it, either.

He seems embarrassed that he can't really explain what he does all day. I relate this to the idea that LIE's have an easy time accomplishing tasks and a hard time explaining why they are doing them. Musk may have had an Ah-Ha moment there in the interview, when he was trying to define what he does. His mind might have inadvertently strayed into "And why am I spending my day like that?" territory.

I was wavering between LIE and ILE for Musk, but @Myst's argument above about screwdrivers and engines convinced me that he's LIE.

*EDIT* I see that I just reiterated most of Myst's points. I need to learn to type faster.

I've yet to meet an LIE who would not describe themself as a business man, like he does. Maybe he's not awkward, he just finds the subject boring?

I've yet to meet an LIE who describes themself as a nano-manager (he does).

Or an LIE who fits the description of romance style aggressor.

His Te discussing was not about Te but about understanding, Ti, ie teach the theory of engines not the use of the tools for engines.

The arguments for LIE are just lacking for me, and sparse, ie 'he invents things' isn't enough to conclude LIE.

[Myst]

I've yet to meet an LIE who would not describe themself as a business man, like he does. Maybe he's not awkward, he just finds the subject boring?

I've yet to meet an LIE who describes themself as a nano-manager (he does).

Or an LIE who fits the description of romance style aggressor.

His Te discussing was not about Te but about understanding, Ti, ie teach the theory of engines not the use of the tools for engines.

The arguments for LIE are just lacking for me, and sparse, ie 'he invents things' isn't enough to conclude LIE.

I said more than just "invent things", stop ignoring the other arguments!

He actually was against teaching the theory of engines and was for teaching the use of tools.

I don't know how the hell we manage to interpret the same thing so differently lol.

Anyway, like I said ILI isn't to be excluded, but gamma NT I'm very sure about.

All in all, I'd rather see the whole picture here and not just a few cherrypicked details. And the whole picture is that he does all this inventive very productive business/engineering stuff, fulfilling his Ni vision, it's his life basically. How the hell that isn't gamma NT (and especially LIE)... How the hell isn't that big picture weighing in more for you than 1-2 sentences he randomly said here and there?

[at sirac son of sirac]

I said more than just "invent things", stop ignoring the other arguments!

He actually was against teaching the theory of engines and was for teaching the use of tools.

I don't know how the hell we manage to interpret the same thing so differently lol.

Anyway, like I said ILI isn't to be excluded, but gamma NT I'm very sure about.

All in all, I'd rather see the whole picture here and not just a few cherrypicked details. And the whole picture is that he does all this inventive very productive business/engineering stuff, fulfilling his Ni vision, it's his life basically. How the hell that isn't gamma NT (and especially LIE)... How the hell isn't that big picture weighing in more for you than 1-2 sentences he randomly said here and there?

lol

It made me think though, what did he 'invent?' https://www.quora.com/Has-Elon-Musk-...elf-personally

Elon Musk invented Zip2, arguably the first ever electronic city guide. This was his first software company and he wrote the software himself. When building this software, he developed a few new technologies for radius searches and directory management. Ultimately, this company was sold to Compaq. Following that, Elon Musk co-founded http://X.com, which was, so far as I can tell, the first E-Bank. While the company was co-founded, he was the architect and principle developer for the software. Another idea that he invented, and patented, was a method for making phone calls over the internet (filed back in 1997).


Insomuch as rocket technology or electric car technology is concerned, it becomes more difficult to determine exactly what he specifically invented vs what was designed as a team overall. In some cases, Elon might have had the idea and the engineers that work for him flushed it out. In other cases, the engineers came up with an idea and Elon took it upon himself to work it out. In the end, really, the end product is much more important than who gets the credit.

He isn't really an inventor as such, but a programmer. High level programming again is a more thing.

And, the 'inventions' with the programming - electronic city guide, radius searching and directory management - all of this is just structure and order. He had an E-Bank but really he was the programmer (Ti) and making calls over the internet is just more programming (Ti).

The guy is just dripping with Ti

The 2nd paragraph isn't really him inventing, it's him having an, as he describes it, a nano-management style over a team, and nano-management is again, LSI

Lol, I guess I just can't see anything other than Ti and LSI for him.

[Myst]

lol

It made me think though, what did he 'invent?'

His visions.

He isn't really an inventor as such, but a programmer. High level programming again is a more thing.

High level programming seems like an NT thing to me. I don't care for it myself. I prefer low level.

And, the 'inventions' with the programming - electronic city guide, radius searching and directory management - all of this is just structure and order. He had an E-Bank but really he was the programmer (Ti) and making calls over the internet is just more programming (Ti).

The guy is just dripping with Ti

(The 2nd paragraph isn't really him inventing, it's him having an, as he describes it, a nano-management style over a team, and nano-management is again, LSI )

My LIE ex was a programmer. A very good one.

[at sirac son of sirac]

His visions.

This is the invention thing again, when you say 'visions', any type can invent. What Elon Musk did was invent things particular to his type - street maps, directory management, these are all Ti & Se structure (his strength.)

High level programming seems like an NT thing to me. I don't care for it myself. I prefer low level.

Not really, Te is a profit/productive logic, Ti is a formal logic. With NT - that includes Gamma NT who are Te.

My LIE ex was a programmer. A very good one.

Be that as it may, it doesn't detract from LSI.

Anyway, as I mentioned a couple of posts ago, i've personally decided on his type, I was hesitant to post again, as I don't enjoy conversations that go on forever, I feel i've extracted what I need. Thanks for the discussion

Edit:

I don't know how the hell we manage to interpret the same thing so differently lol.

lol, I noticed this too. I've heard/think I read that this can happen with quasi-identical types, so, if we can't agree on Elon Musk's type, at least it's a sort of confirmation for each of our types


'In these relations partners always have difficulty understanding each other in full. Quasi-Identical partners always need to convert each other's information in such a way that it corresponds with their own understanding. This conversion requires much energy and does not bring the desired satisfaction. Books written by your Quasi-Identical are impossible to read. The creations of your Quasi-Identical look monstrous. Conversations with your Quasi-Identical, although not heavy, do not bring any satisfaction either. One partner may think that the other partner complicates simple things and simplifies the important points, trying to deliberately confuse and mislead them. Both partners are convinced that whatever their partner was trying to say, could be explained in a different and more understandable way.'


http://www.socionics.com/rel/qid.htm

[Myst]

This is the invention thing again, when you say 'visions', any type can invent. What Elon Musk did was invent things particular to his type - street maps, directory management, these are all Ti & Se structure (his strength.)

I meant Ni ego future focused visions.

Not really, Te is a profit/productive logic, Ti is a formal logic. With NT - that includes Gamma NT who are Te.

Yeah, his is profit/productive logic.

Be that as it may, it doesn't detract from LSI.

Lol this is incredible, you used the programming thing to argue for Ti for Elon Musk, now when you get told that Te types can program well too, you say it doesn't matter... Incredible.

Anyway, as I mentioned a couple of posts ago, i've personally decided on his type, I was hesitant to post again, as I don't enjoy conversations that go on forever, I feel i've extracted what I need. Thanks for the discussion

I for sure don't enjoy discussing with such biased people ignoring facts staring in their face.

Edit:

lol, I noticed this too. I've heard/think I read that this can happen with quasi-identical types, so, if we can't agree on Elon Musk's type, at least it's a sort of confirmation for each of our types

I don't see a reason to question your self-typing.

In these relations partners always have difficulty understanding each other in full. Quasi-Identical partners always need to convert each other's information in such a way that it corresponds with their own understanding. This conversion requires much energy and does not bring the desired satisfaction. Books written by your Quasi-Identical are impossible to read. The creations of your Quasi-Identical look monstrous. Conversations with your Quasi-Identical, although not heavy, do not bring any satisfaction either. One partner may think that the other partner complicates simple things and simplifies the important points, trying to deliberately confuse and mislead them. Both partners are convinced that whatever their partner was trying to say, could be explained in a different and more understandable way.'

The bolded might be what got irritating to me.

(Ofc no hard feelings otherwise. This isn't personal.)

[silke]

@silke, how do you conclude that what he was talking about was not Te? Outsourcing is efficient and is what you do if you want to get a lot done in a short amount of time. [/B] No one in their right mind would try to do every little detail themselves, like making their own nuts and bolts. You can't develop the expertise fast enough to be taken seriously. You have to rely on other companies which have experience doing things, and you just act as an integrator. You sell the idea, you outsource everything that can be outsourced, and you only keep in-house the expertise that you can't find already in existence elsewhere. You inspect their incoming work before you integrate it and you promote your successes so you get more business. Plus you have people who keep track of the money.

I spend most of my time on engineering and interfacing with customers and a lot less on finding new business, but I'm acutely aware that other people keep the place running.

The space business was basically handed to Musk because congress wanted the space program to go private. He didn't really have to look too hard for that. I don't think he entirely planned it, either.

He seems embarrassed that he can't really explain what he does all day. I relate this to the idea that LIE's have an easy time accomplishing tasks and a hard time explaining why they are doing them. Musk may have had an Ah-Ha moment there in the interview, when he was trying to define what he does. His mind might have inadvertently strayed into "And why am I spending my day like that?" territory.

I was wavering between LIE and ILE for Musk, but @Myst's argument above about screwdrivers and engines convinced me that he's LIE.

*EDIT* I see that I just reiterated most of Myst's points. I need to learn to type faster.

Very easily @Adam Strange.

Elon Musk never says anything about efficiency, timing, effectiveness, "interfacing" and "customers" end of outsourcing as you're doing it. He could have said many of the things that you did, but every single of those Te markers are absent from his speech and likewise from his info processing which defines socioncs types. He omits stating any of what you did because he does not have Te in his ego block. Te is an unvalued "limiting" information element for him, why max he's saying on Te is "errr people think I'm a business person, but I'm not".

And of course he is embarrassed to explain any Te, since he is a Ti-valuing introvert.

[strangeling]

So what is it exactly about Musk that screams Ti?

Ti starts with basic axioms/assumptions and formulates conclusions. It's subjective logic. Musk said he doesn't value that kind of thinking because it doesn't work for doing stuff. Before all else, he says that and it seems extremely important to him. And all of his companies are engineering companies looking to push their technology into the future.

Ti types I've known are keen on politics, government, education, law, order, architecture (be it computer, construction, or whathaveyou), and anything where some form of subjective logic is necessary. Musk left Trump's economic advisory council over Trump exiting the Paris Climate Pact. Musk says he doesn't give a shit about degrees if someone can learn on their own and accomplish better things without one. I don't see how he really gives a shit about Ti stuffs. Big picture, it just isn't there. Of course, we can sit here and pick out little things that he says to argue that he is, but it completely misses the big picture of the man and his life.