The energy model. (Model G)

[mu4]

If there is a psychic energy, how can information contain this energy? I think psychic energy corresponds to a general attitude towards certain information, which seems to be very similar to function strength and/or "valued" function (or mental vs. vital) in my view.

What is the difference between function strength and information preference in your view?

Function strength I believe has to do with the amount of psychic energy that can be directed towards an information element. On the basis of function strength in model A, ENTj and ENTp are the same. I see preference in a different way that's governed by how information enters into the system and how information is output from the system and the sequential flow of information within the metabolism.

However my view is that Model A function strength is mutable in a way that information preference is not. The flow of information in Model A is very specific and unable to be altered for any individual, any change even minor change to this structure would create mental instability, fragmentation or collapse. Something like dissociation identity disorder or major dissociation can likely present different information preference schemes if there is enough fragmentation.

So a ENTp and a ENTj have completely different and incompatible information processing mechanisms, but their function strength are the same per model A.

However this is not a necessary truth in individuals of these types, because psychic energy may be influenced quite differently than information preference, and there is no hard rule in socionics or reality that would prevent a imbalance of psychic energy within a system, and the effects of this imbalance would not bring about immediate instability, fragmentation or collapse.

There should be a correlation between function strength and preference in the ego due to what one does naturally to cope with environmental pressures, but what if these uses of one's natural capabilities were to be punished by not just informational means but material consequences, what if the intrinsic capacity to perform cognitive tasks related to one's information preference is disturbed by physical or mental ailments. There are many situations where this development can be disturbed and interrupted without altering information preference enough to cause a collapse, but there would be a misalignment between function strength and information preference. It's probable that enough difference in alignment in these factor can likely cause a mental collapse but this is not necessary for small misalignment.

It's also likely quite useful for these difference in alignment to occur, as they provide diversity and the opportunity to develop other coping mechanisms.

I also want to note it's entirely possible that for some individuals one ego function is heavily favored and the other subdued.

Also much of this is unknown and there may be many areas where alignment can somewhat different between various parts of the mind even if some concerns are the same.

[Petter]

Function strength I believe has to do with the amount of psychic energy that can be directed towards an information element. On the basis of function strength in model A, ENTj and ENTp are the same.

I apologize for a delayed response.

This corresponds with dimensionality, right? This is also the same as 'interest' according to SSS, and me.

I see preference in a different way that's governed by how information enters into the system and how information is output from the system and the sequential flow of information within the metabolism.

However my view is that Model A function strength is mutable in a way that information preference is not. The flow of information in Model A is very specific and unable to be altered for any individual, any change even minor change to this structure would create mental instability, fragmentation or collapse. Something like dissociation identity disorder or major dissociation can likely present different information preference schemes if there is enough fragmentation.

Can you explain this part a bit further?

Can you give me an example of an impossible alteration of the flow of information?

So a ENTp and a ENTj have completely different and incompatible information processing mechanisms, but their function strength are the same per model A.

I disagree with this. I think preference and function strength is the same thing. However, ENTp and ENTj don't think Te and Ne are equally important. ENTp "values" Ne more than Te, especially in public.

Is your view that preferred functions are the same as "valued" functions?

I also want to note it's entirely possible that for some individuals one ego function is heavily favored and the other subdued.

Why do you think that?

[mu4]

I apologize for a delayed response.

This corresponds with dimensionality, right? This is also the same as 'interest' according to SSS, and me.

There could be a correlation but not necessarily a causal effect between psychic energy and dimensionality. I think intelligence(general and specific) can factor here. Psychic energy may not even be function strength it might be an aspect of the human organism that may display as function strength but different aspect vs what socionics attempts to measure.

Can you explain this part a bit further?

Can you give me an example of an impossible alteration of the flow of information?

I disagree with this. I think preference and function strength is the same thing. However, ENTp and ENTj don't think Te and Ne are equally important. ENTp "values" Ne more than Te, especially in public.

Once again there is probably a correlation but there's no need to be causation. Function strength is already seen to be mutable by various subtype theories. A contact subtype of a D (DCNH) subtype would have accentuated and thus perhaps stronger than . I'm not sure if you understand what I've said.

The flow of information if changed would change type, if ILE all of a sudden the preferred information flow went from Ne->Ti to Ne-Fi then they would have changed types, or perhaps created an alternated TIM(dissociative identity disorder is a thing). This wouldn't change function strength either. From my study of various dissociative disorders, this is entirely possible, some dissociative identity disorders can be visually blind in one personality vs another and this can be confirmed via neural imaging, the vision receptors are simply shut off due to some trauma. I assume many more changes to the brain can occur via trauma, physical or psychological. However even if preference changes to trauma, strength might still be preserved. The model is only a efficient ideal of a information metabolism, but it has really no bearing on the possible variation that exists, which can be as inefficient in many ways as long as what is necessary eventually occurs.

Is your view that preferred functions are the same as "valued" functions?

Why do you think that?

I'm not sure what you're asking, information preference and valued functions are the same in socionics.

Anyways I'm not sure how much knowledge you have of neuroscience or cognitive science so you may need to learn a lot more before approaching the theoretical aspects of this topic.

[Petter]

There could be a correlation but not necessarily a causal effect between psychic energy and dimensionality. I think intelligence(general and specific) can factor here. Psychic energy may not even be function strength it might be an aspect of the human organism that may display as function strength but different aspect vs what socionics attempts to measure.

I sort of agree with you here, but it is very difficult to comment since we don't know if there is a psychic energy in the first place, and we don't know how to distinguish between it and physical energy. And we certainly don't know if Gulenko's model is accurate.

Once again there is probably a correlation but there's no need to be causation. Function strength is already seen to be mutable by various subtype theories. A contact subtype of a D (DCNH) subtype would have accentuated and thus perhaps stronger than .

I disagree completely with this. DCNH is inaccurate. Both Ne and Te are either strengthened or weakened.

I'm not sure if you understand what I've said.

Neither am I.

The flow of information if changed would change type, if ILE all of a sudden the preferred information flow went from Ne->Ti to Ne-Fi then they would have changed types, or perhaps created an alternated TIM(dissociative identity disorder is a thing). This wouldn't change function strength either. From my study of various dissociative disorders, this is entirely possible, some dissociative identity disorders can be visually blind in one personality vs another and this can be confirmed via neural imaging, the vision receptors are simply shut off due to some trauma. I assume many more changes to the brain can occur via trauma, physical or psychological. However even if preference changes to trauma, strength might still be preserved. The model is only a efficient ideal of a information metabolism, but it has really no bearing on the possible variation that exists, which can be as inefficient in many ways as long as what is necessary eventually occurs.

OK. And I agree with you.

I'm not sure what you're asking, information preference and valued functions are the same in socionics.

No, and this is important. Preference, strength and dimensionality refer to the same thing. This is about INTEREST. "Valued" functions or "verbal" functions is about IMPORTANCE.

I'm not sure what you're asking, information preference and valued functions are the same in socionics.
Anyways I'm not sure how much knowledge you have of neuroscience or cognitive science so you may need to learn a lot more before approaching the theoretical aspects of this topic.

"I also want to note it's entirely possible that for some individuals one ego function is heavily favored and the other subdued."

What do you mean by "subdued" here? Are you saying that the dominant/leading function can be subdued???

[Jeremy8419]

There could be a correlation but not necessarily a causal effect between psychic energy and dimensionality. I think intelligence(general and specific) can factor here. Psychic energy may not even be function strength it might be an aspect of the human organism that may display as function strength but different aspect vs what socionics attempts to measure.

Once again there is probably a correlation but there's no need to be causation. Function strength is already seen to be mutable by various subtype theories. A contact subtype of a D (DCNH) subtype would have accentuated and thus perhaps stronger than . I'm not sure if you understand what I've said.

The flow of information if changed would change type, if ILE all of a sudden the preferred information flow went from Ne->Ti to Ne-Fi then they would have changed types, or perhaps created an alternated TIM(dissociative identity disorder is a thing). This wouldn't change function strength either. From my study of various dissociative disorders, this is entirely possible, some dissociative identity disorders can be visually blind in one personality vs another and this can be confirmed via neural imaging, the vision receptors are simply shut off due to some trauma. I assume many more changes to the brain can occur via trauma, physical or psychological. However even if preference changes to trauma, strength might still be preserved. The model is only a efficient ideal of a information metabolism, but it has really no bearing on the possible variation that exists, which can be as inefficient in many ways as long as what is necessary eventually occurs.

I'm not sure what you're asking, information preference and valued functions are the same in socionics.

Anyways I'm not sure how much knowledge you have of neuroscience or cognitive science so you may need to learn a lot more before approaching the theoretical aspects of this topic.

TIM is already dissociative. Each of the TIM are a dissociation between their 4D and 1D functions, with the level of dissociation present objectively being the measure of how different they are than other people. Normies are balanced on their elements. Sure, you can microscope a normie and be like hmmm it appears you have a very slight disconnect between X and Y, but otherwise you wouldn't be able to tell the difference. Supervision in Socionics provides a bridging of that cognitive disconnect.