Can you elaborate? I tend to need specifics in order to understand.Originally Posted by Cosmic Teapot
(I don't do well with vagueness because my nature is to listen deeply, thoroughly, to avoid inaccurate conclusions. I absolutely can't stand assumptions...I've been hurt a lot by others making them. Ties in with my blog post about divergent thinking...which people tend to think ESIs can't be, for some strange reason. Idk, the creativity=Ne memes need to die, tbh.)
I don't think we've been talking to the same ILEs, lol.
Do you guys think Trump is ILE? Not trying to derail into a political discussion, it's just that some of what is said here that SEIs like about ILEs, is some of what I've read that people like about Trump...
I'm not OP so I can't know what they had in mind, but I doubt they'll ever get to answer since they haven't posted anything since 2020. But I can speculate.
The loyalty part I'd guess it's due to ILEs being friendly to pretty much anyone, and this being something that happens not only at first contact. Talking mostly from self experience (but also some observations of other xLEs), I don't really know where to draw a line for "niceness" and I'll just go to hell and beyond for any of my friends. The issue though is that the majority of people don't work under this pretty naive framework. So one can get into the (flawed) logic of "If I do X to friend Y, I must expect Y to retribute by also doing X". But this doesn't happen the majority of times. Actions don't define relationships, not entirely. At some point, the ILE is prone to noticing he's been the only one taking action for a relationship (in a very literal sense, such as doing favors) and getting frustrated he got nothing in return. Which leads to the resentment part. "If by doing this I didn't get anything, I might as well not do anything at all". And once you get into this idea, it's hard to be convinced away from it.
I don't know why they felt the need to mention ESIs. If anything I've been let down by ESIs I considered good friends in the past because they weren't there for me in moments I expected them to. Makes more sense to me to think of ESIs being seen as resentful and loyal in ways that are foreign by an ILE than the opposite
I think Trump is SEE, which is the same temperament as ILE, so it makes sense that they would have some overlapping traits.
The ILEs I know are not in academia, so maybe that’s the difference
Hmm. It's always hard for me to see those with so many NPD-like traits as Fi, but it's possible. Gonna stop myself there so I don't derail the hell out of this thread like I helped do to the one you started recently (sorry for that, btw...got caught up and carried away).
Re Trump and Te as an activating function. Does the shoe fit?Te as activating function in SEE (ESFp; Napoleon) and IEE (ENFp; Huxley)
For this individual knowledge is paramount, a measure of worth: “If there is something I don’t know - I’m inferior”. Therefore, very often they claim they know how something is done, while in reality not knowing it (often in hopes that they will research it later, and that no one will suspect that they were bluffing). Sometimes, in self-defense, you can hear them say “I don’t know”, shamefully admitting to their weakness. It is also important for them to have some personal territory, a place where they have the opportunity to be in charge. They love to learn, because acquired knowledge increases their self-esteem. Nothing pleases them more as to receive a high mark on some subject. Such person is very attentive to objective reality: any violation in the order of things stresses him. He likes to reinforce own claims with links to an authoritative sources, statistics and facts, but cannot analyze them in terms of understanding. His vocation: the keeper of factual knowledge. Can’t stand any measure of chaos in information, when nothing is clear. In such situations, tries to simplify the information: “Do we have any actual, concrete facts and figures? Lets start with these. ” “If there is order in my world - then I am good, if not - then I’m bad.” Have a tendency to idealize their “objective” picture of the world and authoritative figures. That is, they view it as what actually exists, even if they are in error and many of their facts are specious. Often become followers of something, of some “order of things” and attempt to implement this order everywhere. Getting promoted to higher position usually recruit “their” people who accept their “order of things” and their actions. Very important concept for them: “If I am the owner, I am the boss in my territory.” It does not matter what the size of this territory is: a room or an entire state, as long as their authority has been accepted by everyone. Sometimes this takes a comical shape: a guard of some area considers himself to be in the right to decide whether or not to let you in based on his personal whims. In personal life, this can lead to elevated demands placed on potential partners: it is necessary to fully accept all of their outward actions, but this can be done only up to certain extent. Often they are aware that finding such ideal in principle not possible. Violation of the order of things by their subordinates is a serious offense - have you arrived too late? Thus you destroyed his order. If he is not the boss, then it is important for him to know exactly the extent of his responsibilities, otherwise he may not take up someone else’s “order of things.” Love to order people around if opportunity presents itself: relatives, subordinates, depending on how far their concept of territory extends itself.
Black & white is a shallow divide, division is the color that multiplies
Taking thing at face value is good only for a spell
Watch out for the quicksand, an hour glass isn't worth watching when the cook is done
Pick a straw man, and you'll find a scared crow
I wrote a short comment on the Trump page explaining why I think he’s Fi if you wanna talk about it there
https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...d-Trump/page29
Unsure about Trump, but I know a SEE D who very good at playing political game, seizing power for her own, charming but cruel towards those whose oppose her. She even said it out loud “having power feel really goooood!” and laugh at those who have opinions with her. But she is really dumb and piss a lot of people by her big mouth
SLE/LSI usually hold power for a cause/principle and don’t come off as personal like that.
context...
I like how ILEs readily break down theoretical concepts and explain how they are or aren't connected, while keeping things interesting and avoiding boring, dry explanations.
◯▙ SEI, 8w9 sp/so, FVLE
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