common stereotypes about Si (introverted sensing)

[Ananke]

I was talking about Jung's Intuition. IP... you mean Intuition or Sensing?

Both are IP functions....

"In some sense" is a bit vague.

Well, I simply mean that dynamic and subjective and irrational means there is time passing between the start and end of an impression (IP describes subjective impression of changes), and thus there is time involved in the perception itself (changes means time)

I observed Si egos before and they don't talk like that. I find they talk in a more simple way than that.

Oh, they do talk about "life paths" a lot. I think the word "life path" isn't too good, as we discussed before, and it may be why it is not clear, but it's the only way I can describe the linear subjective cause-effect perception of Si.

The level of "genius" in what the Si-egos say about these changes over time depends on their level of ... well... intellect. It ranges from "He will probably spend all weekend at home eating potato chips" to things like "Once you get trapped by your imagination, you think the worst and therefore you have to plan for the worst. It becomes a self-fulfilling thing."

I agree it's an Involved IE, if your description of Si reflected this it would be a lot better.

Hmm.. I'll think of a way to explain it, but it seems it would get even more complicated. I wrote about it in the link to the other Si post below, though. Maybe it's enough to say that involved functions are less "mental", and thus don't involve much thinking.

I just see too many things mentioned that are not related to Si as the IE. That's what I call overcomplicating.

I wrote the post very fast, so possibly didn't focus on the most important things in what I mentioned, but the examples should be quite good for understanding the timeline/life path concept anyway.

Oh also you mentioned stability... how do you reconcile this with the adaptability of Ip temperament?

Stability? If you adapt, it is to keep stable, in some sense, when facing external instability.

Explain what you see as wrong about it. If you mean it sounded like I want to equate food with Si, no, that's not what I meant. What I meant is that Si as a Sensing IE experiences the food quite directly. Not indirectly because of whatever timeline needing it. That is, I would not try to explain its sensations by that timeline concept at all. That is what I call overcomplicating when defining Si.

Ok, that made more sense.

That said, Si will actually have timeline sensations based on food. It can be as simple as feeling the sensation of grandma's pancakes from childhood when eating pancakes as an adult, and through that have a sensing perception of the changes that have occured in society since then ("they don't make pancakes like that anymore"). So I don't agree that Si makes tastes come out more, it's actually more like sensing has an augmented quality to the sensation, like more information behind the experience, and that isn't really "reality" either. Ni and Ne may not even focus on the food, but float off in their minds based on own or other's thoughts and concepts unrelated to the food, so in that sense sensors are more into their senses, but thinking of grandma isn't really "taste" either, it's just linked to the taste.

Linearity would mean it's not adaptable Irrationality.

It isn't linear in thinking style, like rationality. Rationality means a conscious and fully aware process of A ---> B ---> C, or at least in some sense a conscious understanding of the judgement made.
The timeline changes that Si perceive is linear in the sense that they perceive the changes from past to present in a more direct line than Ni (whereas Ni perceives the differences between changes in snippets of unrelated timelines.)

[Myst]

Both are IP functions....

But we are talking about Si here.

Well, I simply mean that dynamic and subjective and irrational means there is time passing between the start and end of an impression (IP describes subjective impression of changes), and thus there is time involved in the perception itself (changes means time)

Well, Ni is the IE about time... since that's something more removed from the present. Si is in the present.

Oh, they do talk about "life paths" a lot. I think the word "life path" isn't too good, as we discussed before, and it may be why it is not clear, but it's the only way I can describe the linear subjective cause-effect perception of Si.

The life path thing just seems like your own abstract conceptualization of Si's workings. Socionics has it as present oriented: "perceives external information in form of sensations evoked by ongoing events". This is also what makes sense to me.

The level of "genius" in what the Si-egos say about these changes over time depends on their level of ... well... intellect. It ranges from "He will probably spend all weekend at home eating potato chips" to things like "Once you get trapped by your imagination, you think the worst and therefore you have to plan for the worst. It becomes a self-fulfilling thing."

The latter is something a lot of people typed Ni egos here would say...

Hmm.. I'll think of a way to explain it, but it seems it would get even more complicated. I wrote about it in the link to the other Si post below, though. Maybe it's enough to say that involved functions are less "mental", and thus don't involve much thinking.

Yeah, they are less mental.

Stability? If you adapt, it is to keep stable, in some sense, when facing external instability.

In what sense? How is this different from Ij temperament's stable reality?

That said, Si will actually have timeline sensations based on food. It can be as simple as feeling the sensation of grandma's pancakes from childhood when eating pancakes as an adult, and through that have a sensing perception of the changes that have occured in society since then ("they don't make pancakes like that anymore"). So I don't agree that Si makes tastes come out more, it's actually more like sensing has an augmented quality to the sensation, like more information behind the experience, and that isn't really "reality" either. Ni and Ne may not even focus on the food, but float off in their minds based on own or other's thoughts and concepts unrelated to the food, so in that sense sensors are more into their senses, but thinking of grandma isn't really "taste" either, it's just linked to the taste.

As far as I can see, Si perceives changes gradually and continuously in the moment right here and now, conceptualizing change as this grandma thing seems Static bias

It isn't linear in thinking style, like rationality. Rationality means a conscious and fully aware process of A ---> B ---> C, or at least in some sense a conscious understanding of the judgement made.
The timeline changes that Si perceive is linear in the sense that they perceive the changes from past to present in a more direct line than Ni (whereas Ni perceives the differences between changes in snippets of unrelated timelines.)

Yeah about Rationality.

Si perceives small changes in the moment... but in that sense it can be linear sure.

[Ananke]

The life path thing just seems like your own abstract conceptualization of Si's workings. Socionics has it as present oriented: "perceives external information in form of sensations evoked by ongoing events". This is also what makes sense to me.

I think it's more correct to call it oriented towards tangible timelines than to call it present oriented, but that is a form of present orientation in and of itself, I guess. As in, Si pulls information from a timeline to describe the present (see pancake example).

The latter is something a lot of people typed Ni egos here would say...

It's a SEI quote. And I don't think Ni-egos would say such a thing. Ni is more detached.

As far as I can see, Si perceives changes gradually and continuously in the moment right here and now, conceptualizing change as this grandma thing seems Static bias

Did you check the examples (youtube vids)? I'm static as you point out, so it's obvious that I'm not the best at explaining the dynamics of Si, but the videos are good examples of what I try to explain.

[Myst]

I think it's more correct to call it oriented towards tangible timelines than to call it present oriented, but that is a form of present orientation in and of itself, I guess. As in, Si pulls information from a timeline to describe the present (see pancake example).

We definitely call two different things Si then. As I said, my version of it "perceives external information in form of sensations evoked by ongoing events".

It's a SEI quote. And I don't think Ni-egos would say such a thing. Ni is more detached.

It seems detached enough to me. I hear @Pookie etc say these things all day.

Did you check the examples (youtube vids)? I'm static as you point out, so it's obvious that I'm not the best at explaining the dynamics of Si, but the videos are good examples of what I try to explain.

I looked a bit but it didn't really help much.


Anyway. Can you say more on the stability thing where I asked: In what sense? How is this different from Ij temperament's stable reality?