How do ESIs show love? (ISFjs)

[Persephone]

No problem. And well, it's your job to make them feel in a safe zone. Mutual trust is the royal discipline for the ESI x LIE dyad.

Mutual trust is present in every healthy relationship regardless people's types.

[Chae]

Mutual trust is present in every healthy relationship regardless people's types.

Sure. But staying within the context of Socionics: the Gamma quadra places special emphasis on it. Compare us to Alpha types whose relationships are heavy on (having potential) and (some sort of elation). Trust - knowing your partner will act within your sphere of interest - is a lot more within / territory. Ni considers implications derived from the degree of affiliation and how it is treated. Betrayal (the dark side of trust) will hurt more than because of Gamma's long term thinking. Who do you think will recover faster when their partner betrays them, ESE or ESI? ESI, who is also more likely to break up as a consequence, will dwell a lot more and will refuse to enter a new relationship unlike ESE, who will look for a distraction to cope or give their partner another chance because they see their potential. Which is ESI's weak point. So well, trust has to be present for healthy relationships, but every case values trust in a different manner, depending on what important factor (=function) they find fulfilling.

[Persephone]

Sure. But staying within the context of Socionics: the Gamma quadra places special emphasis on it. Compare us to Alpha types whose relationships are heavy on (having potential) and (some sort of elation). Trust - knowing your partner will act within your sphere of interest - is a lot more within / territory. Ni considers implications derived from the degree of affiliation and how it is treated. Betrayal (the dark side of trust) will hurt more than because of Gamma's long term thinking. Who do you think will recover faster when their partner betrays them, ESE or ESI? ESI, who is also more likely to break up as a consequence, will dwell a lot more and will refuse to enter a new relationship unlike ESE, who will look for a distraction to cope or give their partner another chance because they see their potential. Which is ESI's weak point. So well, trust has to be present for healthy relationships, but every case values trust in a different manner, depending on what important factor (=function) they find fulfilling.

I don't fully agree, what do you do with Fi PoLR persons? And still they are Fe valuers.

[Chae]

I don't fully agree, what do you do with Fi PoLR persons? And still they are Fe valuers.

Do what exactly?

[Persephone]

Do what exactly?

It's weird you don't get what I meant but maybe I wasn't very explicit within my explanations. I was trying to say that trust issues are not exclusively related to Fi valuers only. Fi PoLR people are more than concerned with trust and still they are Fe valuers. I hope it was clearer now.

[Adam Strange]

Sure. But staying within the context of Socionics: the Gamma quadra places special emphasis on it. Compare us to Alpha types whose relationships are heavy on (having potential) and (some sort of elation). Trust - knowing your partner will act within your sphere of interest - is a lot more within / territory. Ni considers implications derived from the degree of affiliation and how it is treated. Betrayal (the dark side of trust) will hurt more than because of Gamma's long term thinking. Who do you think will recover faster when their partner betrays them, ESE or ESI? ESI, who is also more likely to break up as a consequence, will dwell a lot more and will refuse to enter a new relationship unlike ESE, who will look for a distraction to cope or give their partner another chance because they see their potential. Which is ESI's weak point. So well, trust has to be present for healthy relationships, but every case values trust in a different manner, depending on what important factor (=function) they find fulfilling.

This is absolutely true. Trust, and knowing your partner will act within your sphere of interest, is everything.

My first GF, an LSI, and I were having relationship problems. Perhaps she was trying to apply some pressure. She decided to get really drunk with some friends at her place and one of the guys spent the night there. She told me the next day that nothing had happened, that she hadn't cheated, but as soon as I heard that, we were all done. Trust was gone. (It turned out for the best. She's now married to an ethical guy, possibly an EIE.)

One very strong factor in deciding to marry my SLI ex-wife was the sense I got that she was rock-solid faithful, and would always be on my side. (That, plus the fact that I could tell she would be a good mother and had good taste in clothes and furnishings - I can see now that I was subconsciously looking for ESI traits.) And she has been. Even though we are divorced, she still stops by briefly every couple of weeks to say hi, and to ask how I'm doing. We're not getting back together (Adam shudders - the last couple years were not great), but she does still show loyalty and support. It helps that we actually like each other and are friends. Too bad she can't stand living with me. Or maybe it's not too bad, since we both now have a chance to find better partners. She replaced me with a cat, I'm still looking.

[Adam Strange]

Thank you for sharing your story.

I wanted to ask you, your SLI shows the qualities of being rock-solid faithful and would always be on your side, and the qualities of being a good mother and a good taste of clothes and furnishings, does this not on it's own not say that these qualities are not exclusively Gamma and therefore not exclusively ESI?

I'm not wanting to go through a painful memory or situation for you, I just thought how it contradicted what Chae has been saying about loyalty and trust being Gamma/Ni traits.

It is obvious to me that Chae has more knowledge of Socionics than I do, so I can only say what I think she meant. Zloty, I get the impression that you are Delta, possibly ESTJ or INFP, and from my experience, I agree that Deltas do value trust. But I think Chae is saying that for Gamma's, trust is everything. For both Delta's and Gamma's, trust is important, but if trust is violated, Gamma's Ni (single possiblity) will cause them to walk away, while Delta's Ne (many possibilities) might cause them to try to perfect or improve things. But that is just a guess.

Incidentally, I don't mind if girls I am dating also date other guys. When there is no commitment, that's not a problem. But once a commitment is made, breaking that trust is a really bad thing. Not recoverable.

[Chae]

The problem I have with that is to imagine having a partner who would work against my sphere of interest.

Recovery is dependent on many factors.

I also disagree with your socionic explanation, both Ne and Ni is capable of seeing how a breakdown in trust could spiral into so many issues in the present or in the future.

So what do you? Does Ni handle it better because they've got the "vision" to see how things will improve in the future? So maybe non Ni types aren't better at it at all, it seems too loose to me to put a socionic handle on a basic thing, which is mutual trust in well any type of partnership I can think of even team work it's required a bit.

If you have troubles imagining, let's switch bodies for a day Very well. When the primary issue is breaking of trust, recovery primarily depends on that. And Ni is not about how things improve, that's Te /plus/ Ni. Ni itself is just a time function: "A leads to B; if _____, then _____." And Ne: it sees all sorts of consequences (the difference is quantity) and acts according to Ti or Fi. Ni is always blocked with Te or Fe so it's either a practical or emotional forecast, but always a one way street unless the lower functions interfere. You don't have to debate trust as a basic team work principle, we are talking about it within romantic ESI boundaries here.

[Chae]

I'm still waiting to see people agree on what Ni and Ne is and until they do i'm skeptical of people telling me what it is with what appears to be authority or rather saying how I might present it is wrong I appreciate the effort and i'm not trying to be a stick in the mud, but I will have to agree to disagree with you for now, thanks for offering your explanation.

Let's agree to disagree ^^