Your Imago

[Hays]

Combined positives and negatives of 4 people from my younger years.

Positive: Calm, dependable, humorous, unconditional type love, acceptance, adores partner, cares for/about others with physical or spiritual or homeless type problems etc, playful behaviours including silly dancing, singing and board games, charismatic/unusual/unique personality, taker of forward movements towards life, hard worker, creative, read stories aloud, attracted to other cultures, eagerness for outings and explorations.

Negative: Self focused including talking about self to others constantly and making every situation about self, depression, abused because of race, doesn't know how to love or value others, took lives of animals - partly to do with farming, a completely non involved parent shirking every aspect of child raising.


What I wanted most as a child and didn't get was: being loved and valued.

As a child, I had these negative feelings over and over again: wasn't wanted/loved/valued, abandoned and not cared about.
I remember consistently thinking as a very young child that this couldn't possibly be my real family, my mum was not my real mum, why was I placed here etc.

[strangeling]

Not saying there isn't validity to this, but I don't think it works for me. I only had two positive traits. I was fed and given money. I care little about those things, except for attaining goals. But I stopped talking to my dad and he died of lung cancer last year. I did not accept his request to see him. Only talk to my mom now because she became sane after leaving him. But I don't forget how she was to me back then.

Too many negative traits. But I think I'm schizoid anyway. Intimacy causes too much anxiety; I feel like I want to vomit. There's a good chance I will never have another intimate relationship for the rest of my life and for some reason I'm perfectly okay with that.

On the other hand. I do have an attraction to women that are strong, powerful, and have a dark nature to them. I get to see their worst side and if I still think it is beautiful, I could feel comfortable and love someone like that. But that has little to do with my parents and more to do with my existential feelings of estrangement with myself and the universe, possibly influenced by my parents.

Not trying to sound cool or brag or seem special or something something, but I am a pretty odd person that pretends to be normal. So maybe this only applies to people that proactively seek out relationships.

[Olimpia]

Not saying there isn't validity to this, but I don't think it works for me. I only had two positive traits. I was fed and given money. I care little about those things, except for attaining goals. But I stopped talking to my dad and he died of lung cancer last year. I did not accept his request to see him. Only talk to my mom now because she became sane after leaving him. But I don't forget how she was to me back then.

Too many negative traits. But I think I'm schizoid anyway. Intimacy causes too much anxiety; I feel like I want to vomit. There's a good chance I will never have another intimate relationship for the rest of my life and for some reason I'm perfectly okay with that.

On the other hand. I do have an attraction to women that are strong, powerful, and have a dark nature to them. I get to see their worst side and if I still think it is beautiful, I could feel comfortable and love someone like that. But that has little to do with my parents and more to do with my existential feelings of estrangement with myself and the universe, possibly influenced by my parents.

Not trying to sound cool or brag or seem special or something something, but I am a pretty odd person that pretends to be normal. So maybe this only applies to people that proactively seek out relationships.

You are not the only one who has claimed this "Imago thing" does not work for them.
I have given this test to other people before posting it here.

One SX blindspot person (SO/SP) who is also dismissively attached claimed "they have never been attracted to someone like their parent before", and that they cannot come up with any traits.
After some extra probing, he actually could come up with a few, and admitted the results were not that wrong.

Another person who is SP/SX grew up with many different caretakers – not only his parents, but also his aunt and grandmother.
Just like you, he said the most positive traits he can remember were being fed and taken care of (seems to be an SP first thing to focus on).
More positive traits or any negative ones he could not remember – he said he has "overcome" and "forgiven" their negative traits for the most part, without going into any detail.
I've talked some more with him about it, asked him which person he felt the closest to and/or who has had the most positive impact on him.
He admitted that person would have to be his ESI aunt. And lo and behold, a very common attraction pattern for him is to be attracted to ESI women.
Also, he let on that something that draws him to people is a certain melancholic look in their eyes. And guess what – his mother used to be depressed when he was younger.

At last, another case was someone who has had a pretty rough childhood.
She stated that there were only negative traits ("too many") that she could remember regarding her parents.
I asked her whether there has been any other kind of person in her life that took care of her, with whom she associates positive feelings.
Actually, she does – her grandmother would be kind and considerate and help her with learning things. I don't know more details, but it is highly likely her grandmother's positive traits might be some of the positive traits of her Imago.

All in all, you might simply not feel able to delve into your memories of that time and extract the positive/negative traits of people you picked up on back then.
I suppose I am biased, but I believe that everyone is being affected by their Imago – some more, some less. (Those who are the most affected are usually: SX first + insecurely attached + have had a rough childhood)

Some people's Imagos are more clear, as in they can tell you exactly what they are like (which is rare, considering the Imago is largely unconscious).
Most people have to go through several failed relationships and then realize what kind of patterns they have been going through, to see that they have some kind of "type", which is essentially their Imago.
Finally, some people – especially those with rough childhoods – have a very foggy idea of their Imago and have difficulties with "pinning them down". Their Imago may be very disassociated and full of contradictory traits. They may have had really scarring or dissatisfying romantic relationships due to that Imago.

I'd also like to mention that the Imago can actually become more healthy the more healthy you become yourself.
Some people might believe they are "doomed" with a "bad" Imago – but when they work on themselves and reach a better psychological state, their Imago will better itself, too.
What that means, is that the more healthy you are, the less your Imago's negative traits in other people will entice you.
I know that no one actually finds the negative traits of their Imago attractive (for the most part) – for most people, they are "pet peeves".
But on a very unconscious level, the average person is drawn to those negative traits without being conscious of that.
So, the more healthy you are, the less often and less strong this will happen.

[Olimpia]

I remember consistently thinking as a very young child that this couldn't possibly be my real family, my mum was not my real mum, why was I placed here etc.

Could it be you are Type 4 in the Enneagram?
As far as I know, it is a very common theme for Type 4s to feel like they are the "alien" or "black sheep" in their family.
(I absolutely relate to that, for instance.)

[Hays]

Could it be you are Type 4 in the Enneagram?
As far as I know, it is a very common theme for Type 4s to feel like they are the "alien" or "black sheep" in their family.
(I absolutely relate to that, for instance.)

I remember thinking for the longest time that it was likely that I was Type 4 possibly with more of a 5 wing.
Somehow at a later stage I also found myself relating a bit to things posted regarding Type 9 but something always seemed off.
In the following thread if you scroll down to post #13 by @silke you will see where she has quoted me in regards to a little I wrote about relating to a picture she posted about Type 9:
http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...76#post1062376
Concerning Type 4 my difficulty was in understanding what is written about their weakness of envy as I don't think this applies to myself and husband agrees.
What are your thoughts on this - can you be Type 4 without any envy issues?

[Olimpia]

I remember thinking for the longest time that it was likely that I was Type 4 possibly with more of a 5 wing.
Somehow at a later stage I also found myself relating a bit to things posted regarding Type 9 but something always seemed off.
In the following thread if you scroll down to post #13 by @silke you will see where she has quoted me in regards to a little I wrote about relating to a picture she posted about Type 9:
http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...76#post1062376
Concerning Type 4 my difficulty was in understanding what is written about their weakness of envy as I don't think this applies to myself and husband agrees.
What are your thoughts on this - can you be Type 4 without any envy issues?

When I came across the envy issue of Type 4, I was low-key shocked. Because I had prided myself on never being jealous!
It took me a little while to come to terms with my envy. It was very repressed in me, because I had learned that being envious is not a good thing.
And I still guard my envy a lot. I don't think anyone really knows when I am being envious or not, or whether I am actually an envious person at all.
I try to ignore or overcome my envy whenever it arises.

It also depends on your first instinct when it comes to what your envy is like and what it is about. For example, SX 4 will be envious about someone being more attractive or looking more like they wished the looked themselves, or other people finding it easier to be in/find happy romantic relationships ("What is wrong about me, and right about them that makes them able to find love and be loved, and not me??")

I've found that for most people, typing themselves according to their "Vice" or "Virtue" is not really helpful, because it is often repressed and/or too unconscious.
Instead, it is much more helpful to type your coping mechanism/behaviorism(s), because that is the reaction to your Vice.

Type 9s will act calm, pleasant, "not rock the boat", peaceful – while actually being asleep to their own needs.
Type 4s will be very introspective and try to delve into their feelings and impressions, and/or be melancholic, easily dissatisfied, feel cast out; long for some elusive ideal and/or person; try to be unique – while on the search for their own personal identity and significance.

It is highly likely you have both types in your tritype.
I am leaning towards 4 for you, just because Type 9s feel connected to both of their parents (in their childhood), while it is Type 4 who is disconnected from both their parents and feels like an outcast.

[Hays]

When I came across the envy issue of Type 4, I was low-key shocked. Because I had prided myself on never being jealous!
It took me a little while to come to terms with my envy. It was very repressed in me, because I had learned that being envious is not a good thing.
And I still guard my envy a lot. I don't think anyone really knows when I am being envious or not, or whether I am actually an envious person at all.
I try to ignore or overcome my envy whenever it arises.

It also depends on your first instinct when it comes to what your envy is like and what it is about. For example, SX 4 will be envious about someone being more attractive or looking more like they wished the looked themselves, or other people finding it easier to be in/find happy romantic relationships ("What is wrong about me, and right about them that makes them able to find love and be loved, and not me??")

I've found that for most people, typing themselves according to their "Vice" or "Virtue" is not really helpful, because it is often repressed and/or too unconscious.
Instead, it is much more helpful to type your coping mechanism/behaviorism(s), because that is the reaction to your Vice.

Type 9s will act calm, pleasant, "not rock the boat", peaceful – while actually being asleep to their own needs.
Type 4s will be very introspective and try to delve into their feelings and impressions, and/or be melancholic, easily dissatisfied, feel cast out; long for some elusive ideal and/or person; try to be unique – while on the search for their own personal identity and significance.

It is highly likely you have both types in your tritype.
I am leaning towards 4 for you, just because Type 9s feel connected to both of their parents (in their childhood), while it is Type 4 who is disconnected from both their parents and feels like an outcast.

Thanks for your response. You have got me thinking that maybe my 'envy' is shown through my 'dissatisfaction' that I have not succeeded in life as I would have wished and think others around me have, leading me to always think something is wrong with myself and I am faulty.

I shall take your advice and go back and have a further look at the coping mechanism/behaviourism(s) of the Type, more so than the 'vice' or 'virtue'.

And yes I was disconnected from both parents in my childhood leaving me with those negative feelings mentioned in post # 11 of this thread.

[Adam Strange]

When I came across the envy issue of Type 4, I was low-key shocked. Because I had prided myself on never being jealous!
It took me a little while to come to terms with my envy. It was very repressed in me, because I had learned that being envious is not a good thing.
And I still guard my envy a lot. I don't think anyone really knows when I am being envious or not, or whether I am actually an envious person at all.
I try to ignore or overcome my envy whenever it arises.

It also depends on your first instinct when it comes to what your envy is like and what it is about. For example, SX 4 will be envious about someone being more attractive or looking more like they wished the looked themselves, or other people finding it easier to be in/find happy romantic relationships ("What is wrong about me, and right about them that makes them able to find love and be loved, and not me??")

I've found that for most people, typing themselves according to their "Vice" or "Virtue" is not really helpful, because it is often repressed and/or too unconscious.
Instead, it is much more helpful to type your coping mechanism/behaviorism(s), because that is the reaction to your Vice.

Type 9s will act calm, pleasant, "not rock the boat", peaceful – while actually being asleep to their own needs.
Type 4s will be very introspective and try to delve into their feelings and impressions, and/or be melancholic, easily dissatisfied, feel cast out; long for some elusive ideal and/or person; try to be unique – while on the search for their own personal identity and significance.

It is highly likely you have both types in your tritype.
I am leaning towards 4 for you, just because Type 9s feel connected to both of their parents (in their childhood), while it is Type 4 who is disconnected from both their parents and feels like an outcast.

The association of envy with type e4 is something I have seen a couple of times, both in IEI's.

In one case, a female IEI was engaged to and living with a very successful LSE. He had a 1930's house which cost $600k in Dayton, Ohio, which means it was pretty nice. Fabulously, nice, actually. But on her instagram page, she only posted pictures of the $1.5M house across the street, as if that were what she really wanted. When I saw this, I thought she might be a social climber, but in contact with her, I saw that she was extremely nice to everyone, high and low on the social scale. She gave me the impression that she felt she was missing out on something, but wasn't sure what that was. I suppose that could look like envy, but she kept that pretty well hidden.

In another case, my favorite cousin (also IEI and a real "people" person) was living with her parents during her senior year of high school, and when they went on a two-week vacation, she sold all their living room furniture. This was so out of character for her that I simply refused to believe it when my LSE mother gleefully told this to me, as evidence of her obviously bad character. For years, I thought I had dreamed the incident. But my sister recently confirmed it. I can only assume she did it as an attempt to get what she was missing from her life, and mistook what was missing for the furniture which furnished her parent's house.
I love my cousin, and like to spend time with her whenever I can, but to this day, I can sense an undertone from her that she is outside a department store window, looking in, and wishing she had all the things displayed inside.

[Olimpia]

The association of envy with type e4 is something I have seen a couple of times, both in IEI's.

In one case, a female IEI was engaged to and living with a very successful LSE. He had a 1930's house which cost $600k in Dayton, Ohio, which means it was pretty nice. Fabulously, nice, actually. But on her instagram page, she only posted pictures of the $1.5M house across the street, as if that were what she really wanted. When I saw this, I thought she might be a social climber, but in contact with her, I saw that she was extremely nice to everyone, high and low on the social scale. She gave me the impression that she felt she was missing out on something, but wasn't sure what that was. I suppose that could look like envy, but she kept that pretty well hidden.

In another case, my favorite cousin (also IEI and a real "people" person) was living with her parents during her senior year of high school, and when they went on a two-week vacation, she sold all their living room furniture. This was so out of character for her that I simply refused to believe it when my LSE mother gleefully told this to me, as evidence of her obviously bad character. For years, I thought I had dreamed the incident. But my sister recently confirmed it. I can only assume she did it as an attempt to get what she was missing from her life, and mistook what was missing for the furniture which furnished her parent's house.
I love my cousin, and like to spend time with her whenever I can, but to this day, I can sense an undertone from her that she is outside a department store window, looking in, and wishing she had all the things displayed inside.

Both seem to be examples of Sp/Sx E4.
Personally, I cannot relate to the specifics.
I don't care about furniture and houses, and have never envied someone's living arrangement before.
Sp blindspot does not care.

As I said, the instinctual stacking influences what kind of things the E4 will be envious of.

[maniac]

Both seem to be examples of Sp/Sx E4.
Personally, I cannot relate to the specifics.
I don't care about furniture and houses, and have never envied someone's living arrangement before.
Sp blindspot does not care.

As I said, the instinctual stacking influences what kind of things the E4 will be envious of.

Not true, my so/sx sister cares about interior design and likes decorating from time to time.

[darya]

Could it be you are Type 4 in the Enneagram?
As far as I know, it is a very common theme for Type 4s to feel like they are the "alien" or "black sheep" in their family.
(I absolutely relate to that, for instance.)

I have an e4 friend who always comments how she can't understand how she got born to a family where everybody is so different than her. She sees herself as misunderstood from all other family members, an alien, but also better than them.

I otoh see myself as fitting in and being accepted by my family. It makes sense that I turned out as I did . I'm spoiled by my dad, but I'm even closer with my mom, she's like a second bff who i tell everything to. People comment how I'm "a younger version of her" and I can defenitely see the similarity and feel strong attachment.

[dot]

Could it be you are Type 4 in the Enneagram?
As far as I know, it is a very common theme for Type 4s to feel like they are the "alien" or "black sheep" in their family.
(I absolutely relate to that, for instance.)

This is probably not related, but since we recently talked a lot about being e4 I resonated with what you wrote.