SEE has 4d Fe since it is their demonstrative function. I didn't bookmark the link but someone probably has it handy. @MystOriginally Posted by Schildmaid
SEE has 4d Fe since it is their demonstrative function. I didn't bookmark the link but someone probably has it handy. @Myst
“My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.” —C.G. Jung
About function positions? http://www.wikisocion.org/en/index.php?title=Function
Well, it's an Id function. I guess you could call that "high functioning" if you put some qualifiers on it.
Right, it isn't a "valued" function.
“My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.” —C.G. Jung
Perhaps just to add my insights as a ILI female still in university...
SEEs can be intellectual and/or successful. I would not say that ILIs have an inherent advantage over their dual in that regard, since SEEs have immense willpower and are able to achieve just about anything they put their minds to. However, the key is that they should have a concrete goal they are working towards. These SEEs usually have some sort of guidance from their surroundings and a sense of direction of where their life should lead to. My SEE s/o is an estimated summa cum laude, a SEE I know is part of the National Youth Choir and another has a black belt in Judo.
How can a ILI attract these kind of SEEs then? The best way would be to simply have them take note of your existence. My SEE friends and S/O all admitted that they did not even know I existed before I was directly introduced to them, either by mutual friends or by circumstances. And this was even when I have been in their vicinity for months. Do this by joining social activities that interest you. It is easier to meet SEEs if it is some kind of sensoric activity, like martial arts or sports. All the SEEs I know have some sort of sensoric past-time they use to de-stress. The SEEs will do the rest once you have had conversations that show a little of your character.
I can't speak for all ILIs as to how to show your character, but I have received feedback from SEEs of both genders that they identified me as an interesting person because I simply spoke what was on my mind without fear, and could be obliviously blunt. SEEs like awkward people and find it easier to be themselves around such people, because they internally can also feel socially awkward. Their social awkwardness manifests in an inability to regulate the pressure they place on another person's boundaries. Many SEEs I know tend to end up 'tiptoeing' around people because they fear coming on too strong if they happen to find the person interesting, so meeting an equally awkward, albeit in a different way, ILI puts them at ease.
As for romantic interest, for SEEs physical attraction is a prerequisite if they are to gain such interest. However, their tastes can be unconventional. I've found that they tend to like people who dress in dark colours and/or adopt minimalistic and practical fashion. Hygiene is a must, and a toned body is a great bonus. Not too much muscles, just enough to show you exercise somewhat. For females, natural makeup is best. Additionally, competence in the intellectual sphere is particularly attractive to SEEs. Specifically, they are interested in people who are able to make practical plans and direct others to execute these plans.
Unfortunately, many SEEs tend to already be in relationships when young. SEEs are the sort to take a trial and error approach to their relationships, and in their younger years they do gravitate towards other EXFX. This arises from a lack of options more than anything else, since Ni types are just not noticeable. So they simply take what they can get, because SEEs want to love and be loved at a degree greater than most other types. Talking to SEEs of both genders, I found that they have at best a vague idea of the kind of person they would like to be with. Given their adaptable personality, they can just about forcefit any type to fit their vague ideal and hence can even date people from the Alpha quadra. But, they are drawn towards ILIs and will fixate on ILIs if they happen to know a desirable one, even if they do not consciously know why.
Ultimately, the biggest problem with ILI-SEE duality is still visibility. The visible ILI gets locked down rather quickly by SEE, but the invisible ILI simply ends up blending with the wall, doomed to never being noticed by the SEE. I made a conscious choice to be visible by joining many different activities and consequently had many Se types and even the occasional alpha SF come after me, but I ultimately chose my SEE s/o. Similarly, a ILI male I am friends with who was president of his club, was constantly asked out by other females in subtle ways. He eventually went into a relationship with a highly ambitious SEE, who is respected due to her many accomplishments in multiple areas. The ILIs I know all have a mysterious and magnetic quality to them, which makes them attractive to a broad spectrum of types if they take care of their appearance and enough people know of their existence. The SEE will approach regardless of the presence or absence of competition, as long as the ILI is visible.
Last edited by Alstroemeria; 10-04-2016 at 08:22 AM.
@Alstroemeria Your input is very relevant, awesome. If you're up for writing another piece, what are your insights concerning the established SEE/ILI relationship's dynamic[s] in general? The OP also hinted at Aggressor-Victim interplay and we haven't gathered much tangible info about that so far, care to elaborate on what `aggressor-victim´ means to you in particular?
Hi @Chae, glad to oblige! Also, I really like your insights and the technical approach you take. It would be great if you could post more on SEE-ILI duality too.
Based on my own experiences, the SEE-ILI duality is above all else, comfortable and respectful. Additionally, it tends to be focused on helping each other achieve economic prosperity/job satisfaction. Conflicts can be intense (for instance, my SEE s/o and I have shouted at each other while arguing), but they are always ultimately resolved within the span of a few hours. SEEs do not like leaving conflicts unresolved.
In the context of the aggressor-victim dynamic, I think it manifests itself most obviously when a couple is not exclusive,because the SEE tends to do most of the work in establishing a relationship. The SEEs I know rarely ask out people (people tend to ask them out instead), but when they find a person worth the effort,it will be immensely difficult to shake them off. They are very selective as they are incredibly loyal to their romantic choice, even if that loyalty may not be well deserved. I've known a SEE female who pined for a ILI male for years, while going out on dates with males of other types. No matter who came her way, her goal was always to close the distance between her and the ILI, even if it took years because the ILI responded at the rate of a turtle. My SEE s/o was rejected six times by me in a span of a year while staying my friend ,and by then even my friends felt sorry for him and asked me why I was being unnecessarily cruel. I was not, but I was battling with depression at that time and was not certain of his commitment given my mental illness. He certainly did prove me wrong though, since I eventually felt secure enough to tell him about it and show him the hospital where I underwent psychiatric treatment. He actually took the effort to read up on depression and how to best give support because he suspected as much,which touched me greatly. ILI can feel rather flawed internally,thus they will need a period of time to assess if a person will be willing to accept them for who they are. In addition,they can also be rather cold and/or distant to their prospects. SEE will need to be emotionally strong and close the distance if they are to obtain the elusive ILI.
(Random tip for any ILI reading - these SEEs may seem to be introverts in your presence. They're probably just nervous and trying to adapt to you. I've witnessed outgoing popular SEEs be reduced to one-liners due to self consciousness about the words they speak or type to the ILI of their choice. I mistyped my SEE s/o as ESI initially because he was so quiet, guarded and seemed hesitant to touch me. Turned out to be him desperately wishing he would not mess up when we interacted)
Once a relationship has been established, the aggressor-victim dynamic becomes more subtle. One way it manifests is in the ILI needing occasional reassurance that the SEE still loves and prioritises them. ILIs can feel doubt about the strength of the relationship for many reasons (e.g the SEE unconsciously flirts a lot) ,therefore the SEE acts as the rock of the relationship by reassuring the ILI. If ILIs do not obtain their desired reassurance, they will start rebuilding the walls that the SEEs painstakingly took down. Therefore,the ILI-SEE duality in an established relationship can be best analogised to the repeated building and taking down of the ILI's walls. The SEE never gets bored as a consequence, and the ILI feels loved and accepted.
SEEs are also very possessive, and they do not ignore any mention of potential competition. My SEE s/o likes to jokingly refer to me as his property that no one else can touch whenever he feels a threat. In addition, my ILI friend tries to avoid mentioning his close female friends out of respect for his SEE girlfriend, who I'm pretty sure will rip me to pieces if she knew how close I am to him. ( jk, pretty sure she'll just tell him to talk to me less)
Despite their adaptable personality, SEEs have very high standards and many demands. Of course, given that the vast majority of SEE-ILI dualities start out by the SEE choosing their target ILI, the ILI likely already inherently fulfils many of these requirements and demands. Nevertheless,I've found that SEEs can be rather pushy if the ILI falls short or becomes lazy, because SEEs themselves always try their best. For instance,my SEE s/o insists that I keep exercising because it is good for my mental health and keeps me fit. I was already exercising regularly even before meeting him, and he himself exercises more than me. On the days where I may have a minor depressive episode and am supposed to exercise but am unable to do so , my SEE s/o will give me a pep talk and pull me out of bed while reminding me of the benefits of exercise and the promise I made to keep fit. I always feel better after exercising so it does work. As an addendum, the SEE may start out with unreasonable or unrealistic standards,especially if they are inexperienced or had unhealthy relationships previously. Still, the SEE and ILI can communicate to agree on realistic goals. The SEE always has goals they are working towards, and they expect the same of their partner.
SEEs can also be the sort to act for their s/o to ensure their s/o's emotional well-being, regardless of what their s/o wants. Victim types are probably the only people who allow such behaviour because they may not have a concrete idea of what they want, and may sometimes act comtradictorily.
The SEE will take care of all the ILI's physical needs. The SEEs I know show their affection through physical deeds. For instance, my SEE s/o buys me dinner when I get too busy, and chocolate when I have my period. He does this even when I would have been fine with skipping meals and being in pain throughout the period cramps. Therefore, in public the ILI can appear to be particularly dominant, since the SEE does many physical acts to express their affection to the ILI. In addition, any plans that the ILI wishes to execute, the SEE will likely carry out on the ILI's behalf. Thus, it may look like the ILI is giving orders to an incredibly compliant SEE. (I've had EIE and SLE males tell my SEE s/o out of 'kindness' that he is 'hen-pecked' because he is willing to do so much for me and should therefore stop. They were told to mind their own business) As the pseudo-aggressor, the ILI may look to be the one in control. Nevertheless, the SEE is actually the one running the show when it comes to the relationship. The SEE controls the level of affection, as well as the direction of the relationship.
Any corroboration and/or stories by other ILIs and SEEs on this duality would be interesting!
Last edited by Alstroemeria; 10-05-2016 at 08:03 PM.
Okay, I need to know more about this specific aspect of SEE/ILI duality (and just Se/Ni dynamics in general). I keep reading about it, but I'm not sure I totally get how it typically works on the SEE's end.
When someone rejects the SEE, do they think, "That's okay. I'll just try again later. No matter what, I'm going to win this person over!" and then just give it a rest for a bit until they think the time is right to try again?
Or is it that the SEE accepts the rejection and thinks, "No worries, being friends is great, too!" and continues on with the friendship only to find that their romantic interest in the person appears again at a later time (and/or they think something might have changed on the ILIs end), at which point they once again express interest?
Any and all input from anyone who's actually seen/experienced this would be amazing.
The second version sounds more accurate. SEEs are after all dealing with Fe-POLRs, so generally they will not come on too strongly. From what I observe, SEEs gently poke the ILI to see if he/she responds differently. Maybe the ILI has become friendlier, or has become more open... In which case the SEE gives it another shot if they are still interested. SEEs are very persistent though, even a tiny bit of progress is enough to sustain their interest. SEEs usually have strategies to exhaust for their ILI of choice to close the distance, as SEE is a strategic type. In my opinion their problem comes more from restraining themselves from just using all of the possible methods at once, since they know it will overwhelm the ILI.
It is also entirely possible for the SEE to lose interest/give up completely if the ILI dawdles too much, and the SEE thinks that no further progress can be made. In my case, my SEE s/o actually did stop asking me out about 9 months in because he could not see any other way forward. I was the one to ask him for exclusivity because I realized I greatly missed having him around (the whole aspect of duality not being noticed until your dual is not around... when he "gave up" we started becoming more like casual friends), and I was lucky he hadn't found a new person to be interested in and therefore was still open to the idea of being with me. On hindsight if I was more in touch with my feelings and feeling less down about myself, this probably would not have happened. I cringe when I think about it.
Last edited by Alstroemeria; 10-11-2016 at 04:21 PM.
Thanks! <3 That's helpful. Knowledge of socionics kinda messes with my head a bit with this stuff. The rational seeming thing to do is just move on if someone tells you they're not interested, but socionics literature makes it sound like Se egos just harass the person they're interested in until they cave. It sounds not only unwise, unhealthy, and inconsiderate, but also downright ridiculous.The second version sounds more accurate. SEEs are after all dealing with Fe-POLRs, so generally they will not come on too strongly. From what I observe, SEEs gently poke the ILI to see if he/she responds differently. Maybe the ILI has become friendlier, or has become more open... In which case the SEE gives it another shot if they are still interested. SEEs are very persistent though, even a tiny bit of progress is enough to sustain their interest. SEEs usually have strategies to exhaust for their ILI of choice to close the distance, as SEE is a strategic type. In my opinion their problem comes more from restraining themselves from just using all of the possible methods at once, since they know it will overwhelm the ILI.
It is also entirely possible for the SEE to lose interest/give up completely if the ILI dawdles too much, and the SEE thinks that no further progress can be made. In my case, my SEE s/o actually did stop asking me out about 9 months in because he could not see any other way forward. I was the one to ask him for exclusivity because I realized I greatly missed having him around (the whole aspect of duality not being noticed until your dual is not around... when he "gave up" we started becoming more like casual friends), and I was lucky he hadn't found a new person to be interested in and therefore was still open to the idea of being with me. On hindsight if I was more in touch with my feelings and feeling less down about myself, this probably would not have happened. I cringe when I think about it.
The way you explain it toooooootally makes sense though. (:
The thing about how SEE/ILI duality is about the ILI constantly building walls and the SEE constantly working to bring them down is interesting.
This is way better than the info in the long duality description (Strati?) that said that the basis of SEE/ILI duality is spouse stealing and needing to have some giant obstacle to overcome.
This is a great illustration of the way duality can be described differently, when viewed from a standpoint either within or without that duality.
I think SEE-ILI duality can best be described through these comics:
Last edited by Alstroemeria; 10-08-2016 at 07:31 PM.
I really sympathize for the blue guy @Alstroemeria, he's definitely the Introvert of the pair shown. The last comic is especially cute, I'd... be rather OK with an SO with that attitude. Seems crazy in other contexts but that one seems more fully developed. The yellow figure doesn't come off as Yandere as the quote would suggest, it's like they've known each other for so long that he/she can get away with saying that without the possibility of tragic misunderstanding.
I think the comics are adorable and accurate. SEEs like to be rough/bossy to show affection. Obviously they're well aware of when it's appreciated vs not and know how to avoid injuring people. lol Also, the barnacle thing isn't for use on just anyone. Very few people would ever hear such sentiments. Much of it (such as the heartbeat thing) is half joking. The flower thing is a ridiculous example of a very real dynamic in which the SEE will put forth an extraordinary amount of effort for the person they're with and care tremendously about their partner's Fi preferences.
Update: Turns out I'm not polyamorous after all.
Most people aren't. I thank the "subconscious tripwire" as I like to term it for that fact. Evolution's a bitch, and in the end monogamy (at least in its serial form) is what's best from a Darwinian perspective. Thus, everyone gets super jelly and neurotic when they see their SO getting too chummy with people of the opposite sex who ain't them. I could wax philosophical for days as to why that's the case but I'll just leave it at that. Flirting with others of the opposite sex in front of the SO too heavily/frequently will damage their calm to the point where ya might get killed, so don't do it.
Polyamory and other such "free love" concepts sound nice and fine on paper, but human nature thwarts the sunshine and roses hippy worldview. People just don't work that way, and any attempt to make them work in ways that are unnatural will end badly. Look at Communism for a case in point.
I would never be with someone who I think might kill me.
i might strangle you but not to death.
Um. no. wth?
just in a romantic way.
1.) Breath play is a hard limit, 2.) I don't switch, and 3.) wtf, Jarno. lol :-/
For ILI-SEE dynamics, I recommend watching Britney Spears MVs - there always seems to be some ILI around.
Latest example, "Slumber Party" w/ distinct subdued Gamma colours:
A great example of why me and ILIs are a no no.
Britney is ESI.For ILI-SEE dynamics, I recommend watching Britney Spears MVs - there always seems to be some ILI around.
Latest example, "Slumber Party" w/ distinct subdued Gamma colours:
Last edited by LuckyOne; 11-23-2016 at 08:09 AM.
what type are you, i cannot find it in your profile.
I'm not entirely sure yet. The thing is @Chae keeps on saying I'm a SEE and that I would love an ILI. I don't put much weight into this whole romantic pairings thing, but if I assume it to be right, then I can't be SEE.
Well, not everyone who is your dual is actually compatible with you. Do you know anyone in real life you think is an ILI? Initial negative feelings towards them can be dispelled when you come to know one who shares your interests, etc.
[/QUOTE]Great example of why me and ILIs are a go goOriginally Posted by Jarno
just in a romantic way.
A great example of why me and ILIs are a no no.
it's interesting isn't it that someone's fussiness is just a signal to the other that they are being noticed
-
Dual type(as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
In general it seems to be taken for granted that the ILI is slow to respond, but what about cases when the ILI is the pursuer? My whole life I've been socialized to go after what I want, and have ended up in relationships with SEI and SLIs. I always found myself attracted to what I now understand to be SEEs, but always wrote them off as superficial and shallow and always focused my efforts elsewhere. I think a lot of this had to do with my upbringing which basically subconsciously instilled certain unfounded assumptions about what makes a good mate. In other words, it actively worked against my natural instincts and led me down a blind alley (super ego relations, usually). Examining myself as I am now I see I took on a pseudo aggressor role in all my past relationships in order to make things happen. Now there's a SEE I desperately want to make things work with, and while she was initially attracted to me, its mostly all fallen apart and it just feels like the harder I try the worse it gets. I feel like we're actually fighting over nothing and that if we could just spend some time together it would become obvious how much we harmonize with one another, but it feels like she's doing everything she possibly can to throw up walls and prevent that from ever happening.
Do I just write it off and hope maybe in doing so it will either take care of itself (revert to a more natural dynamic)?-- Or worse case, come to nothing, but I stop wasting my effort? Either way it just sucks... I want some kind of closure but I feel like I'm out there on a rope and I can't do anything about it.
It also doesn't help that her prior fiance was likely also an ILI (never met him) but he died (!) in a freak occurrence; so maybe she on some level knows exactly what kind of potential we have but is terrified of being hurt again..?
This is really rare in an ILI, but it seems to me that you're delusional about this relationship. I'd move on.
Usually its the ILI who gives me this advice. Are you really, really sure you are ILI and not LIE? Because once again, what you wrote describes my life.
I mean, I could have written this: "My whole life I've been socialized to go after what I want, and have ended up in relationships with SEI and SLIs. I always found myself attracted to what I now understand to be SEEs, but always wrote them off as superficial and shallow and always focused my efforts elsewhere. I think a lot of this had to do with my upbringing which basically subconsciously instilled certain unfounded assumptions about what makes a good mate."
Substitute ESI for SEE and that's me.
Last edited by Adam Strange; 02-02-2017 at 02:21 PM.
I get how, superficially, that (outward portrayal of my past) sounds exactly like the LIE approach to life, but I do it in a meandering passive lethargic sentimental ILI kind of way. I think 99% of people would likewise think I'm delusional, but there's a weird part of me that firmly believes there is more to this and its a peculiarity of the ILI-SEE dynamic: others are not supposed to understand--it is a kind of hidden pact that we will torture eachother against the advice of all outsiders but what lies unsaid is an attachment that we neither admit or ever give up. Then again, maybe I am just delusional. I think if I really suspected I was merely delusional and I actually wanted to seek better opportunities (I don't), I would be an LIE. A part of me thinks this strange delusion, is ILI (or perhaps, more broadly speaking, a consequence of dominant gamma-style perception).
I would love it if an actual SEE would weigh in
edit: I'm thinking now it must sound like I just made this post only to reject anything I didn't want to hear, and that I've already convinced myself. But that's not entirely true. Conditions for me to give up entirely would be something like a SEE capturing these data points and showing how from the point of view of SEE, she is not willing or is somehow unable to ever let this work. Because, the rub has always been I tend to discount outsider impressions on the issue since I think its precisely their way of thinking that makes SEE emphatically not their dual. Of course they see it as a waste of time and not worth the effort.
My SEE will always say things to the effect of like "you aren't permitted to pass judgement on me without really knowing me" and other such taunts when I say our "problems" are nothing that should get in the way. She will go as far as to say stuff like "I told you I don't feel the same way about you" (keep in mind, we've kissed and it was excellent--when together its electric, nevermind these statements), but she always walks the line on never actually severing relations. She could easily, and I believe nothing is really holding her back except her own desire (in other words, she's not afraid to be mean on principle--in fact she's pretty much mean on purpose all the time so..), simply sever relations if she were so inclined. So she says provocative things, but in deed never actualizes any of it--quite the opposite in fact...
In other words, I'm not discounting your point of view Adam, but I guess I kind of am.
Last edited by Bertrand; 02-02-2017 at 09:09 PM.
I was talking to an SEE, and I was shocked that she would casually talk about how she would be deliberately mean to those whom she was close to, purposefully withhold attention and affection, and when she sees the hurt and dejection in them, she would be nice to them again. I mean as a Se-valuer I get it, I kind of do the same thing sometimes, but it still offended my Fe lol. After reading the Se description, it all made sense.
I've thought that sadomasochism were more or less perversions or "self-esteem issues", but it's strange to think that it might be an innate trait or strategies in some humans. Or in this case, types. I think most people would find SEE-ILI duality very strange and never understand it.
The thing is: I really don't consider it mean, I only consider it mean for the purposes of communication with (especially) alpha and beta quadra, for whom Ti + Fe doesn't really understand not just straightforwardly placating one another with unequivocal statements and direct action (which isn't to say they're concerned with authenticity, rather its more that they don't appreciate nuance, or contradiction as they'd see it)... They very much appreciate what I would consider inauthenticity, rather they value its direct expression (Fe). I think the deal with gamma is they're trying to penetrate through that, and this (my above interactions) is how it spins out. In other words, they want to get to the underlying Fi commitments in spite of actions and statements to the contrary, because that's where the veracity of those commitments is demonstrated--it is the meaningful substrata that is primary and it takes a little (usually painful) digging to get to...
edit: there's an interesting thread in philosophy that started with Kierkegaard (EII) in Fear and Trembling where he talks about the validity of certain paradoxical behavioral decisions on the basis of faith and how they are actually manifestations of the highest ethics. Later, Derrida talks about how this is basically the defense of "the exception" as valid (and necessary) ethical category. To tie it into socionics, I think all of this serves the purpose of essentially freeing us from our beta lawgivers. Were it not for what we're talking about here IEI and EIE would basically control everyone with their relatively unsophisticated and oppressive moralizing.
Last edited by Bertrand; 02-03-2017 at 09:27 AM.
Here the story of a SEE-ILI Dual Couple:
She is the copy paste version of Jennifer Lawrence with all the inflated ego and narcissistic behavior you can think of.
He is Te-ILI. Quiet but not awkward (anymore) and most importantly : desperately in love.
They are in a relationship since about 8 years and it was him who initiated. He confessed his love three times to her before they were finally in a relationship. She tried to keep the relationship a secret from her parents for the first 2 years. For no real reason.
He plans to marry her since at least 4 years, knows what rings he will buy and planned the marriage all out, but he waits until both of them have their degrees.
Here comes the problem. Everyone knows they eventually will marry except for the SEE who acts like she can't hear him everytime the topic comes up.
She once said jokingly: "I really wish he would ask me to marry him. But when he does I will say no."
She is easily the most self-righteous person I know and doesn't give a shit about him. All she needs from him is his attention and to accept all the cruel things she says and does to him.
I really wish the ILI would grow a backbone, dump her ass and find someone who actually appreciates him.
So ffs run.
This gives me hope in all the ways you don't intend! (...or do you?)
I was definitely not trying to make you feel bad about yourself.
I'm glad that I could help.
I was thinking what you described, although you think of it as being terrible, gives me hope because maybe its just par for the course. It really doesn't motivate me to run, rather to stick it out. Which is what I'm guessing you didn't intend. That I have worth is taken for granted, so the idea that like "you deserve better" is more or less wasted on me, because since I know I have worth, I decide what course of action is in my best interest (typical ILI arrogance, you could say). But if its a bad idea and I persist, I suppose its in the hands of karma to teach me a lesson.I was definitely not trying to make you feel bad about yourself.
I'm glad that I could help.
I feel like IEEs tend to link every "problem" back to self esteem or something and thus every solution is some kind of esteem-building positive regard, and its not that I'm ungrateful, but I guess I'm ungrateful.
That's funny... I think a lot of SEEs are purposefully mean, so that they could be nice to them later. That's how Se creates strong bonds. It even said so in the Se description, but I forget where it was from.
The "No games" part of that sounds good.
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