Ask an SLE woman

[niffer]

Yes, but she had redeeming qualities. I wish I could say the same for you.

I'll be 60 eventually.

[rougerogue]

I'll be 60 eventually.

I know but I cannot wait forever. You and I just aren't in the same place in life. I need more. More than you could ever give.

[niffer]

I know but I cannot wait forever. You and I just aren't in the same place in life. I need more. More than you could ever give.

Fear not. Bled has awaited you at the horizon with fluffy eyelashes a-batting and bubbled behind a-twerking. Go forth. And take with you the courage to love again.

[rougerogue]

Fear not. Bled has awaited you at the horizon with fluffy eyelashes a-batting and bubbled behind a-twerking. Go forth. Have courage to love again.

I'll try. I shall try.

[flames]

[rougerogue]

[flames]

[niffer]

I loled and almost drooled

[YXPR]

How would you describe your Fi polr?
How do you cope with it?
How do you act around the people that you like?
What do you expect from them?

How would you describe Te polr?
What do you feel when interacting with Te polrs?

How did you come across the socionics theory?
What made you want to get into it more?

Thank you.

[niffer]

I think I need to answer these one by one.

How would you describe your Fi polr?

I once had a conversation with someone, where they posed the idea that the demonstrative function is the seat of the soul. My thoughts are a bit different. I think that the demonstrative is what a person is in the sense that it is what is contained in their Id. I actually think that the PoLR is the real seat of the soul according to common notions of what that is. In a sense it is the deepest part of an individual, where they run the most hot and cold. To reach PoLR is to reach what holds together the fibre of their being. That is why we are so sensitive to information regarding it. In that sense, our soul takes the form of our dual sociotype. Who we are which we present to the world is an inverted version of that, aka our own sociotype. Outside in; and our dual type is us, inside out.

In my next post, I'll actually answer your question lol. I just had to give that little background spiel for lead-in to serve as context for my thoughts.

[niffer]

"How would you describe your Fi polr?"
"How do you cope with it?"

It manifests differently between ILE and SLE. As ILEs are intuitive types, they are naturally in tune with and have full psychic access to the internal, more "spiritual" mental experience of humans and other living creatures. SLEs are not very much of this. By contrast, we are naturally in tune with and have full psychic access to what it means to have a physical body and to physically exist. At the core of ILEs' experience is a deep connection to the physical world and experience, and at the core of SLEs' experience is a deep connection to the spiritual meaning of everything. For both ILEs and SLEs, I believe Fi polr is about a natural emotional vulnerability, leading to an instinctual coping mechanism to mentally detach from our emotions as well as others', to keep ourselves safe from those who can hurt us due to us essentially having a primitive emotional toolbox and thus no other options for dealing with emotional issues. Make no mistake. Fi polr types are incredibly sensitive. I strongly identified with Jung's idea of Fi for many years, assuming that I was an Fi ego type for the first 6 years of my interest in Jungian typology. Other Fi polr types I've spoken about typology to have had issues with mistyping as Fi ego like me as well. Therefore, our insensitivity towards you is not intentional. It's half collateral damage from our own emotional numbing within ourselves, and half a tradeoff of nature where we've received lower EQ (emotional intelligence "quotient") for a higher IQ. In addition, we sometimes try to gain support from others (Fe) by putting others down, or otherwise are capable of hurting others for Fe-gaining purposes, through poor planning; being shitty and insensitive and "turning off" Fi in favor of Fe is instinctual and self-preservational. We know that our behaviour is wrong, but in moments like this, either we are on auto-pilot (I see this more with ILEs... it is more a sense of obliviousness and innocent ignorance of social norms with them), or that our survival instinct has been set off and it is extremely difficult for us to control ourselves in these moments. Without the social support of the group, as an individual you are dead meat, and Fi polrs know this very well. This is the other side of the coin to what it means to have Fe as a hidden agenda. It means to live with the fear that we may be rejected from our peers, our community, or our society at any time because we are constantly creating our own thoughts (Ti creatives--we are independent thinkers) which may not jive with the values and beliefs of those around us or may stir up outrage. This is what it means to be attracted to Fe creatives, our duals who are attracted to and who value and will be willing to take the time to comprehend our independent thinking and who have mediating qualities between people so that they are capable of reaching out and extending social acceptance to us, and helping us adapt to common social mores and graces.

There's no coping. There's only experiencing our emotional limitations and coming to understand them more clearly over time, seeing the signs for perilous situations when they come up and getting better at avoiding them over time. For me, learning about psychology has added to my understanding of people and emotions a bit, and learning socionics theory and integrating it into my worldview has been a massive game changer in terms of my understanding of the human experience, emotions, relationships, and life.

[niffer]

How do you act around the people that you like?
What do you expect from them?

I don't expect anything. It's just, neutral. Or rather, I oscillate between wondering if I'll be betrayed by them in the future or if we will stay close for a long time and have a positive relationship.

Because of this, it's hard for me to decide if I "truly like" someone, or something. This is another Fi polr thing. Fi DS types actually behave in a similar way. We're all quite objective and we want to deeply love, but we can't bear to waste our emotions. It's got to be worth it.

How do I act around the people I like. I act like niffer, however niffer feels at that particular moment.

[ouronis]

To the SLE: woman?

[Rebelondeck]

.......the demonstrative function is the seat of the soul............

@niffer I would have thought that SLEs, when faced with insurmountable odds, would first try diplomacy or disappearing so as to be able to fight another day. Stress is very telling about what one is deep down and I think SLEs are believers. Becoming moralists and falling on their swords to make a point is not likely in the cards for SLEs but they will go down fighting for beliefs. I think the seat of ones soul is ones dual configuration; in this case, IEI.

a.k.a. I/O

[niffer]

How would you describe Te polr?
What do you feel when interacting with Te polrs?

I certainly don't understand this like I do my own polr. To me, Te polr looks like a blatant disregard for factual reality in lieu of a "makes sense" logical comprehension of something... even if it may not be TRUE in reality and therefore not actually make any sense. It looks like they are always searching for or looking to create these logical comprehensions as they go about their lives learning about the world. On one hand, in a sense, I sometimes feel like it's deeply intelligent, even beyond what I'll ever be. But other times it's fucking weird. Also, Ti HA people love to get sassy about what they know (what they love to think they know). It's totally pathetic. But since I'm an aggressor, pathetic means sexy.

[niffer]

@niffer I would have thought that SLEs, when faced with insurmountable odds, would first try diplomacy or disappearing so as to be able to fight another day. Stress is very telling about what one is deep down and I think SLEs are believers. Becoming moralists and falling on their swords to make a point is not likely in the cards for SLEs but they will go down fighting for beliefs. I think the seat of ones soul is ones dual configuration; in this case, IEI.

a.k.a. I/O

If you have the option of disappearing or diplomacy, I don't consider those insurmountable odds, though yes, those are in our arsenal of final resorts. And yes, what you said is true about us being less likely to fall on our swords, but I've learned to do this. It's probably rare for an SLE to learn to do it with gracefulness.

By the way, it's an honor to have an LII agree with my views on soul configuration.

[Rebelondeck]

.......I don't consider those insurmountable odds..........an LII agree with my views on soul configuration.

@niffer My use of the term "insurmountable odds" was not necessarily meant in the physical sense but it would be a crushing defeat for SLE; they would therefore try to save what they could through whatever diplomacy or grace that they could muster so long as their beliefs were left intact. My use of the term "soul" refers to fundamental stabilizing processes when one is not coping in normal mode. I assure you that I have no spiritual inclination whatsoever but I can see how ones secondary functioning could be interpreted as such. I'll try not to be as ambiguous with my choice of words......

a.k.a. I/O

[niffer]

My use of the term "soul" refers to fundamental stabilizing processes when one is not coping in normal mode. I assure you that I have no spiritual inclination whatsoever but I can see how ones secondary functioning could be interpreted as such. I'll try not to be as ambiguous with my choice of words......

a.k.a. I/O

I see lol. My comment still holds true. This explanation is parallel to my thoughts from which I formed my description above. My own usage of "soul" etc is sort of rhetorical as well. As for my actual spiritual beliefs... I'm not certain. My views change over time.

[YXPR]

"How would you describe your Fi polr?"
"How do you cope with it?"
It manifests differently between ILE and SLE. As ILEs are intuitive types, they are naturally in tune with and have full psychic access to the internal, more "spiritual" mental experience of humans and other living creatures. SLEs are not very much of this. By contrast, we are naturally in tune with and have full psychic access to what it means to have a physical body and to physically exist. At the core of ILEs' experience is a deep connection to the physical world and experience, and at the core of SLEs' experience is a deep connection to the spiritual meaning of everything. For both ILEs and SLEs, I believe Fi polr is about a natural emotional vulnerability, leading to an instinctual coping mechanism to mentally detach from our emotions as well as others', to keep ourselves safe from those who can hurt us due to us essentially having a primitive emotional toolbox and thus no other options for dealing with emotional issues. Make no mistake. Fi polr types are incredibly sensitive. I strongly identified with Jung's idea of Fi for many years, assuming that I was an Fi ego type for the first 6 years of my interest in Jungian typology. Other Fi polr types I've spoken about typology to have had issues with mistyping as Fi ego like me as well. Therefore, our insensitivity towards you is not intentional. It's half collateral damage from our own emotional numbing within ourselves, and half a tradeoff of nature where we've received lower EQ (emotional intelligence "quotient") for a higher IQ. In addition, we sometimes try to gain support from others (Fe) by putting others down, or otherwise are capable of hurting others for Fe-gaining purposes, through poor planning; being shitty and insensitive and "turning off" Fi in favor of Fe is instinctual and self-preservational. We know that our behaviour is wrong, but in moments like this, either we are on auto-pilot (I see this more with ILEs... it is more a sense of obliviousness and innocent ignorance of social norms with them), or that our survival instinct has been set off and it is extremely difficult for us to control ourselves in these moments. Without the social support of the group, as an individual you are dead meat, and Fi polrs know this very well. This is the other side of the coin to what it means to have Fe as a hidden agenda. It means to live with the fear that we may be rejected from our peers, our community, or our society at any time because we are constantly creating our own thoughts (Ti creatives--we are independent thinkers) which may not jive with the values and beliefs of those around us or may stir up outrage. This is what it means to be attracted to Fe creatives, our duals who are attracted to and who value and will be willing to take the time to comprehend our independent thinking and who have mediating qualities between people so that they are capable of reaching out and extending social acceptance to us, and helping us adapt to common social mores and graces.

There's no coping. There's only experiencing our emotional limitations and coming to understand them more clearly over time, seeing the signs for perilous situations when they come up and getting better at avoiding them over time. For me, learning about psychology has added to my understanding of people and emotions a bit, and learning socionics theory and integrating it into my worldview has been a massive game changer in terms of my understanding of the human experience, emotions, relationships, and life.

I was looking for answers that would be a little bit more "personal", with little stories about situations you've exprienced and things like that. But this is still really enlightning. I had never thought of the link between Fi polr/Fe HA like that. Thank you.very much.

[tuathe]

@niffer
The worst experience with an EII you had? Or maybe just - how do you see this type? I've got kind of allergic reactions to my conflictors, but is the same for you? Would love to hear about it, lol.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

u made me realize I want somebody to spit on my face in a very bisexual way, with the aggressive sadistic egotistical assholeness of a male yet the caring social heartedness of a woman (when she's not being cruel- I mean the campy archetype)

[niffer]

*licks @tuathe *

[tuathe]

O-Oh.

[niffer]

I was looking for answers that would be a little bit more "personal", with little stories about situations you've exprienced and things like that.

Okay, I can give you a story from my life.

I was 13 years old, and it was early in my 8th grade year. I was coming out of my shell in regards to trying to be more social and outgoing with others. I was feeling very experimental. Prior to this age I was kind of like an arrogant nerd who had little social experience. If you can picture a 30-year-old basement-dwelling neckbeard contained in the body of a little girl, that was sort of the kind of person I was.

One snowy day, two friends and I (an IEI and an SEI) decided to visit our old elementary school park. Once there, we encountered some people who went to a different school than my friends and I did and were slightly older than us. They were all acquaintances of mine, people I had met before in the recent (for that time) past, except for one person. This one person was a very very tall, huge black guy with a very high-pitched voice, and all of his friends surrounding him were tiny white girls. I'd never met anyone quite like him before up until that point in my life. We introduced ourselves to each other, and I introduced my friends to him.

During this time in my life, I had deduced through observation that a distinguishing feature of people feeling comfortable and at ease with each other was being able to insult one another and brush it off as a joke and as friendly competition. It seemed to me that this behaviour facilitated bonding. So right then and there, I came up with the perfect idea to make this person who was very different from me in almost every way feel immediately comfortable with me and wanting to be my friend: to insult him. Get the popcorn now.

Pretty much just after telling him my name, I said to him, in a super cheerful tone, that his voice sounded "just like a girl's! (^^)"

He became furious. He replied, "Excuse me? Well your voice sounds like a horse, more like a whore's." He then proceeded to throw icy snowballs at me really, really hard, as my friends and I tried to run away a bit.

After a few minutes it seemed like his other friends noticed that some misunderstanding had happened between us that was causing this, and he seemed to calm down a bit with the snowballs. I went and apologized to him, and then his demeanor towards me turned upside down completely. He was like, "Wow, you are actually a really nice person!" etc. and he apologized too, for the snowballs. Ever after when I saw him on the streets or around town, he would wave happily to me and treat me with kindness.

[niffer]

@niffer
The worst experience with an EII you had? Or maybe just - how do you see this type? I've got kind of allergic reactions to my conflictors, but is the same for you? Would love to hear about it, lol.

It's impossible for me to identify the one worst experience I've had out of all of my interactions with EIIs. I did date an EII for two years. That was interesting.

Actually I've always felt some potential for connection with the EIIs I've met without exception, but it's a bit like running towards a mirage in a desert. Whatever appears to be established shared grounding and meaningful connection in the relationship always ends up being discovered to have been a facade. A summary of the nature of interactions with my conflictor is kind of like, eating at McDonalds. On one hand the food might taste good enough to satisfy you for a short while and give you some good memories of the meal afterwards, until you remember all the bad ingredients and chemicals and empty calories that are a part of the food and you just feel ill at ease about everything, and then once more resolve to not solve your hunger with McDonalds ever again. I'm okay with having McDonalds once in a while. In fact, I'm sometimes very happy to have it and look forward to eating it. But if I think too deeply about McDonalds or get attached to McDonalds and eat it as most of my diet, my mental and emotional health and life would be really screwed up lol.

[mikemex]

What's wrong with SLEs such as Benito Mussolini, Saddam Hussein or Recep Tayyip Erdoğan? How are they different from you?

[niffer]

What's wrong with SLEs such as Benito Mussolini, Saddam Hussein or Recep Tayyip Erdoğan? How are they different from you?

If your question is about why they were messed up people who became leaders, since it's most widely thought that people are a combination of nature and nurture, I would have to read up about their early lives in detail, information which may not be reliable, and even then, anything that I could tell you would be wild guessing on my part. I don't think that I would be able to give you an answer that you would find satisfactory. It seems like the universe just produces messed up people once in a while, and SLEs can be more prone to creating mass destruction because it is a very warlike personality configuration.

The main difference between me and them, is that I'm me, and they're them. Different DNA, different upbringings, entirely different life situations altogether. Of course, one can say this about what makes any two people different, or what makes one person different from anyone else to ever exist. Perhaps I'm not so different from them at all.

[tuathe]

So, @niffer, what did you like about this EII you dated and what did you hate/dislike?

[niffer]

So, @niffer, what did you like about this EII you dated and what did you hate/dislike?

I won't speak in detail about this because this is a very public website. In short, it seemed like we had similar taste in things, and that we complimented and supported each other well and communication seemed like a breeze, but eventually I realized that the way that we valued things and viewed life was completely different and incompatible.

[Rebelondeck]

....... the way that we valued things and viewed life was completely different and incompatible.

@niffer Isn't that the needed perspective in a supportive relationship - a different value and view? It can be valuable in an annoying sort of way such as I like danger but he keeps me safe. One should not let the many little things obscure the big picture. Also this alternate perspective does serve to prevent one from pooping in the others pasture.....

a.k.a. I/O

[niffer]

@niffer Isn't that the needed perspective in a supportive relationship - a different value and view? It can be valuable in an annoying sort of way such as I like danger but he keeps me safe. One should not let the many little things obscure the big picture. Also this alternate perspective does serve to prevent one from pooping in the others pasture.....

a.k.a. I/O

The thing is that it was not complementary in the way that you describe. It was different in such a way that we were directly antagonistic towards each other. At first it was subtle, and the larger feeling of complementariness helped keep me motivated. But eventually it ended up being a mirage. We were preventing each other from growing and were actually directly pooping in each other's pastures. It was different in values and views in the way that we should not have continued down the same path together as life partners, while certainly being helpful for philosophical reflection in the short term.

[Rebelondeck]

.........we were directly antagonistic towards each other.......

@niffer It sounds as if some baggage was interfering with natural type-processes - perhaps a certain amount of learned, self-righteous intolerance.......

a.k.a. I/O

[niffer]

@niffer It sounds as if some baggage was interfering with natural type-processes - perhaps a certain amount of learned, self-righteous intolerance.......

a.k.a. I/O

This is vague to the point where even saying this is pointless. Can you elaborate?

[Rebelondeck]

This is vague to the point where even saying this is pointless. Can you elaborate?

What do you think was the source of the antagonism? Antagonism isn't caused by type characteristics.........

a.k.a. I/O

[niffer]

What do you think was the source of the antagonism? Antagonism isn't caused by type characteristics.........

a.k.a. I/O

The type characteristics which translate into the way we communicate -- the way we transfer and comprehend information between each other, was certainly what contributed to building antagonism. There was constant negative surprise, confusion, and miscommunication. We'd developed personal intolerances towards each other, or sort of, unearthed behaviours and values of each other's which created a growing rift. You're right in guessing that there must have been some level of baggage and individual differences which would have created sparks to fuel the fire here too (in the negative sense), but the problems associated with this were relatively minor compared to the overall differences between us and the way that we communicated which made things impossible to untangle. Obviously everyone has some form of baggage, and in a close relationship that's going to come out, and you need to have a partner that can help you slowly come to terms with it. Who you are should be compatible, or at least acceptable to each other enough for each person to be comfortable with solving it on their own as an individual. It might not be type related, but we had very different values, needed different things from one another than what we were willing to provide, and needed different things to grow. To me that completely sounds type related. That's exactly the way conflict ITR is described.

This is getting too personally revealing, so this is the last comment I'm making about this relationship.

[Rebelondeck]

@niffer Various type interactions will exacerbate conflict in their unique ways, but I have found that interaction alone is never the initial cause - people develop their own detonators. Also, I have never thought that conflict partnerships were the worst on the incompatibility scale. And, I have seen duals, who didn't see eye to eye, have particularly nasty relationships because they seem to inherently know how to turn the screws on one another.

a.k.a I/O

[niffer]

@niffer Various type interactions will exacerbate conflict in their unique ways, but I have found that interaction alone is never the initial cause - people develop their own detonators. Also, I have never thought that conflict partnerships were the worst on the incompatibility scale. And, I have seen duals, who didn't see eye to eye, have particularly nasty relationships because they seem to inherently know how to turn the screws on one another.

a.k.a I/O

That's fair enough. It's obvious in itself, and your thoughts and experiences speak to the validity, that ITR quality will not always play out as it's "supposed to". The issue that I have with the way you seem to be thinking about this subject is that it seems fairly pointless to separate detonators (encompassing the behaviours and attitudes that people have towards each other) with who the people inherently are, and type is included as a part of this. You may have seen examples of nastiness within dual relationships that exceeds nastiness within conflict relationships, but I'd wager that the quality of long term relationships for these ITRs (especially very long term romantic ones) on average, will reflect common conceptions of the natures of those ITRs. While it's helpful to view behaviours and people's issues as changeable and able to be improved upon in the way you presented the notion of it, for the sake of facilitating harmonious relationships and positivity and self-development and not being narrow-minded with type stereotypes and with our lives etc., the person's type and all of their baggage are going to be so tightly sandwiched together in terms of how it manifests in their behaviour that in the context of analyzing our relationships in terms of socionics, pointing out a distinction between their ITR and detonating situational factors which should to some degree always exist in some form or another, is just adding superfluous noise in regards to this whole concept and how we approach it.

[niffer]

@rogue so uh

will you love me forever

[rougerogue]

@rogue so uh

will you love me forever

[niffer: We can but we won't take rogue sry]

[nondescript]

How shall I put it, let's see...

1. Is it true that SLE are actually quite thin skinned due to that Fi PoLR?

2. Do you have a lot of...khm /sniff "fun"(due to famous SLE "I don't care, let me conquer" attitude)?

Well, you said ask and I took it to mean ANYTHING?