I asked Sandoval if I could share our private messages that show why he typed (past tense which I will explain later) me Fi/Se and he said I could. Seriously, this dude is very gracious and highly intelligent., I asked because when I have discussed the ideas,, he presented with others, to get their opinion on it, their reaction to me being typed the equivalent of an ESI in socionics was that they found the system "ludicrous" (it is not ludicrous. it is just "different") but I like to make my correlations between different systems that explain the complexity of a human being (yeah I am including synesthesia, astrology and numerology in the bigger picture) as I understand it. Even if it only gets to the essence of things, I can work with that. I find it harder to put my ideas into words so it is helpful when others do the work for me. I just absorb what is useful and leave the rest. They have a somewhat unique take on types and I find it interesting to consider. I have a mild interest in VI but more interested in the general theory, the whole.
I am not sure if this will address your questions but I will give it a shot. I will try to remain objective and only speak on IEI and his Fi/Se,(
Edavin) which is described as "sprite-like, for my example because I have not looked at all his other types. I saw rather quickly that the functions in his system did not completely align with socionics ESI. It is closer to MBTI's, Fi/Se-ISFP but the closest equivalent of MBTI, in socionics, would be SEI? Because I like Sandi I find it harder to critique his system, objectively, because I do not want him to think that what I am saying it meant to discredit him either. I support what he is doing.
In his system Fi/Se values Se and Te from what I can make out so far. I know firsthand how there are overlaps through my comparisons of INFJ/P. I also see overlaps here. That is why you sort of have to see the systems as separate but that does not mean there isn't a unifying theory. No one has gotten there yet but some day. I know it won't be me that does it. Too much work to organize and present.
Unlike socionics, it does not address how the full range of functions can manifest in a type, in the short descriptions I read on his site. He said that new information may be considered and added daily. This is something worth watching, imo. Most of what I am saying here is based on impressions and not because I have read everything but I will read more.
The biggest difference is dimensionality, for example Fi in an IEI is as strong as Fe but demonstrative. Si is also unvalued but it is our role function. Ti is HA but we fall back into our comfort zone of Ni, just as we do with Si. Ni and Si can take turns, so to speak, but is not something we can sustain for long. Te is polr but we are not airheads (at least most of us aren't). Ne is a given but not important so filtered out quickly. Se is a suggestive function... Socionics is still the most complex theory (of this sort) that addresses many dimensions of human personalty and interactions and have explored many but even it doesn't work for me without enneagram, to supplement, and fill in the gaps. None of it is really comparable to say,
neuropsychology which is taken more
seriously by many. The theories expressed here, on this forum, and other forums of this type, are seriously fringe which is part of the appeal to me. As you can witness here on this forum it t can become almost a religion, unto itself, to some. I don't seek a new religion though. I just want to experience clarity in the sea of theories.
I saw their perception of the ego functions in the descriptions could possibly be missing important elements if comparing to socionics. So yes his system is actually independent of both socionics and MBTI and should be treated as such. I think at this point in their endeavor it is probably better that they use the familiar to draw greater interest. It got my attention. They are interested in finding empirical data to back up their theory. A set of facts. Not easy to do with theories that are very subjective to begin with.
It will be a LOT of work. I am interested to see how it evolves. If they are actually able to do this in a way that even hard core skeptics will look at and say, maybe there is more to this. It would be pretty impressive. BUT, there will always be skeptics in the world so they just have to work around them and keep doing their thing. I wish them luck. I believe that in order to do it properly they would have to have people of different types involved in their process, checks and balances. I think this is what they are already doing by allowing testimonials and valuing the input of the people they are studying. It seems to me that there is a lot of Si, Ne and Ti involved here which would point to an alpha quadra theory. I would not type him in socionics because I have not had enough interaction.
I have not asked him all the types of the team members but I am sure he would be very willing to share. Sandovall appears to value transparency without all the secret handshakes and winks behind the scenes (this is NOT podlair which was one of my "concerns" that he put to rest.). I can vibe with that even though most of what I am saying is speculation on my part. This is why I have always been skeptical of VI but something about his system makes me want to keep an open mind because it is still in it's infancy. I don't like to discourage anyone from following their passions/dreams.
People who are purists have probably already dismissed the ideas but I think this forum is pretty open minded (Does anyone remember psyche yoga??? I loved it but it was fringer than fringe.). The confusion lies in the different descriptions that do not completely correlate with socionics types. BUT, there are correlations that would take a lot of effort for me to explain, at the moment (so tired). But, for example, an Edavin which is Fi/Se in his system is nothing like and ESI in socionics. I pointed this out in him in pm and sent him the socionics descriptions of ESI and IEI. His Edavin is closer to an IEI-Ni than ESI. I will now let him speak for himself.
/tangent
So I decide that he should know some things that are common knowledge about me here, for those who have paid attention to me from the beginning, before he settled on my type. I knew that he would probably not randomly come across these posts so I wrote a very self revealing and somewhat unflattering summary of myself and things that have been a big influence in my life. Things that are also innate to my personality and cognitive abilities, something he could not see in my video, pictures, or hear in my voice and this was his response:
It is cool that my testimonial might contribute something to their research. I also need to keep learning instead of believing I already know where things are going. That attitude only winds up with me in a state of apathy. I needed something to get excited about and turn my attention away from things that were troubling me.
In a way he acts as mirror to me but not in the socionics sense. As I said, I cannot type him either, yet.
Cognitive Type Theory
Originally Posted by Aylen
This forum needs a good uproar.Here goes.
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(as per tcaudilllg)
