I don't know his type. I basically have just "met" him although I have interacted with him previously on the forum and then he disappeared for awhile. I am not invested in a type for him. I just like things to be clear so it is as much for me as him. I think it is too easy to misunderstand people online.Originally Posted by Adam Strange
“My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.” —C.G. Jung
@Aylen
Thanks for posting that link to the intertype articles. I realized after posting my link that the intertype chart at socionics.com used four-letter type designations, not three-letter designations, and that could be confusing. Also, the articles at your link have more detailed descriptions of the intertype relationships than the descriptions at socionics.com, but the articles also contain some typos which can be confusing in themselves. The intertype chart at socionics.com is short and to the point.
You're welcome. Those short charts are fine if you know what they mean but when I was new here they drove me crazy. hahah Either way it takes a lot of reading. :/
“My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.” —C.G. Jung
I should mention that I took an official MBTI test supervised by a licensed psychologist and turned out INTP.
On a -30 - 30 scale I got:
6 - Introvert
5 - iNtuition
15 - Thinking
1 - Perceiving
I tried to be objective as possible when taking this test, meaning I really tried to rid myself of any biases I had about who I am.
Lol, duh. He isn't Fe valuing. FWIW, my opinion firmly stands on some sort of emo SLI.
Thanks for providing this information. I read through all of them and besides the fact that I don't mind being serious for much of my visiting time with close friends, I identify most closely with Alpha.
I'd also like to note that I am not some super sensitive person who can't take criticism. This should be easy enough to see through my calm use of language when jer was acting like Shia Labeouf. IIRC, he actually means well, but is frustrated that I seems to be doing nothing with my life. To that, all I can say is that I volunteer every week for a non-profit organization called NAMI (National Alliance for Mental Illness) and I am trying to get a job there.
I was reading throught LII, and some things struck me like they were reading my mind about how I do things:
LII likes precision, accuracy, order; he is meticulous and discriminating in his reasoning. Finds pleasure in creating simple schematics, organizing everything "by the shelves", thinking and planning ahead. Considers that the behavior of people, especially at work, must correspond to specific logic and a definite system. Immediately notes the illogicality and contradictions present in the actions of people and, as much as possible, attempts to introduce corrections: he can express it as a criticism or offer to help, depending on whom he's dealing with. Generally, everything that is illogical and disorderly irritates him, as well as inconsiderate people.
...
Instinctive insight into the substance of the existing world constantly leads him forward, and as soon as he has gained understanding, he is drawn to something new. Everything that has been understood by him seems to be very clear and uninteresting. Only for a short time he is capable of admiring the result he has obtained, for soon after there appears a sense of triviality for what's been done.
One of the LII’s most positive qualities lies in the ability to dismantle intricate and complex questions, to reveal the important parts, to see the problem "from above" and clearly relay his insights and understanding to others. If he has clearly comprehended the essence of the problem, he will not yield to his opponents and will assert his position and vision to the end.
...
He finds it difficult to fit into strict order and social hierarchy, where everything has been previously stipulated, and there is no space for creativity.
LII maintains rationality in material expenditures; frequently he will save a sum of money for the "rainy day" or some unforeseen situation. He is usually thrifty and will not spend money in vain.
His ideal of happiness is in a regulated and proper life, where there is time for work and for leisure. He can for a very long time, sometimes decades, adhere to the same daily routine, and feels very uncomfortable when circumstances disrupt his measured way of life. In such cases, he will try to regain his old way of life, since in it he finds internal support. Excessive disorder and chaos, whether in private or professional life, he experiences very painfully.
...
Fi – Role function. In realm of ethics, LII adheres to the norms and traditions accepted within his society. In nonstandard situations, acts with sufficient care and restraint, so as to avoid situations where he orients poorly. LII poorly discerns emotions of others. He prefers not to interfere in conflicts or simply avoid such situations. Finds it difficult to comfort others merely with words. In such cases prefers to render concrete assistance, or, if this is impossible, to simply walk away and not get involved. Outpours of emotions, complaints, tearful confessions he tolerates poorly and does not understand what to do when confronted by another's tearful emotional outburst.
Usually LII communicates from a large psychological distance and does not like excessive familiarity. People, with whom he feels close, are usually few and mostly his childhood friends. In this, the weakness of his ethical function also manifests itself.
Thus, as a child and as an adult, she fails to develop and maintain many friendships. In this the weakness of the ethical function manifests itself.
Following established practices, LII's bearing is usually proper and restrained. He does not tolerate rudeness and himself rarely resorts to it. Often makes an impression of an aloof, dispassionate person, but usually this is only a manner of outwardly behavior – under the mask of restraint hides a turbulent inner life and full of intense experiences. However, his reserved nature does not permit him to share his misfortunes with others. For years he may harbor an offense, in the depth of his soul, only with difficulty forgives the offender.
...
LII distinctly separates personal life and work. He has a strong sense of responsibility in respect to his family and relatives. Being predisposed to tradition, he is serious about marriage, cares for his aging parents, feels obligated to provide good education to his children. In relations to family, he is not inclined to excessive sensitivity: the weakness of ethical function prevents him from expressing his feelings, especially around other people.
Should one of his relatives require aid, including material, he will offer his help, but he will not freely throw money into the wind – in this sense he is rational. He likes to compile lists of necessary expenditures. Attempts to guard himself in the case of possible future adversities and misfortunes; saves money for "the rainy day".
Thoughts?
maybe you're SEI, yo
(my initial impression was SLI but if you insist on alpha...)
(also, to be honest, LII seems like a really bad fit.)
If you could, could you give some of your reasoning for this. You are telling what, but not how or why.
"But..." "but..." "but..."
Keep being a little boy for all I or anyone else cares. No man will ever respect you. No woman will ever love you. And no matter where you go nor no matter how hard you try and hide, everyone will know that you're just a sick little boy trapped in little boy thoughts too terrified of the world to ever grow up.
So, put me on ignore just as you ignore every other piece of reality presented to you. Me? Think I'll start calling you Peter Pan: Old dude in little boy's body too afraid to grow up spending all his time with little boys like some kinda whackjob pedo. Have fun, Peter Pan.
Unfortunately, I do have to put you on ignore. I'm sorry you can't be reasoned with and that you have to resort to ad hominems to make your point.
Goodbye.
Now, now... Just because he seems that way doesn't necessarily mean that Peter Pan here blows for change on the street everyday lol.
You must have like a million video shortcuts lol
I have some info. I don't know how it will relate to Socionics, but found it interesting none the less.
I took much of what I have written from another forum. I recommend this form of typing, however subjective it may be. Much of whether you believe this info to be valid is dependent on your confidence that IBM has in Watson, the super-computer.
watson pt1.pngwatson pt2.png
Here is the site that it comes from: https://personality-insights-livedemo.mybluemix.net/
I had a thought: perhaps the reason it is so hard for me to decide on my type is because of my diagnosis? Clearly there are more things to consider due to the fact that there is more going on psychologically in me than your average person? Does this make sense on a level of Socionics?
Also, I identify with IP according to this.
Last edited by QuickTwist; 04-18-2016 at 11:52 AM.
Part of being EII is guiding in people's morals and giving them options to think about so that they may make the right decisions for themselves. It's not telling people what to do like "go cut your hair!" It's his choice to have his hair like that among other things. Guiding in morals is "you SHOULD consider this." Or "have you considered this" and "I think it's not good to do this what are your thoughts."
You outright scold him. You tell him what to do without considering that his mental health is debilitating and possibly holding him back in some way. That is not the EII approach to things
-
Dual type(as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
Depression makes people inactive and that in itself stops one's realization of their socionics role. How? Imagine any type being trapped indoors and crying or sulking. Is that person interacting socially? No For someone like LSE in a depression they aren't doing anything therefore not realizing their social role Take LSE who doesn't have depression. He is taking classes and finding his judging nature. He is cleaning the house and finding how he does something slowly and methodically. He's not trapped in sulking.that was just an example n.a.
There are things that you might observe about yourself now
1. When you go out in public, do you tend to take care of the way that you look before you get out?
2. You might try to ask your parents family members about your habits behavior and tendencies.,
Last edited by Beautiful sky; 04-18-2016 at 02:53 PM.
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
Thank you for your thoughts on this. I think I better understand where you are coming from now.Depression makes people inactive and that in itself stops one's realization of their socionics role. How? Imagine any type being trapped indoors and crying or sulking. Is that person interacting socially? No For someone like LSE in a depression they aren't doing anything therefore not realizing their social role Take LSE who doesn't have depression. He is taking classes and finding his judging nature. He is cleaning the house and finding how he does something slowly and methodically. He's not trapped in sulking.
Re. LII. You do VI a bit like Alexander McQueen. I ping ponged around for his type. I leaned towards LII-Ne (EII-Ne, IEI might be possible too). He is in this area of ‚creative‘ LIIs for me (like working in film and fashion), where you get the feeling like you could kinda see exactly these 3 types for them or generally INxx. Tim Burton would be another example. Just talking MBTI, he often gets typed as INTP, INFP and INFJ. So yeah... I mean you said you related to Alpha and LII descriptions, but I think that can of course change with time when you stay and maybe read more and gain more understanding of yourself (or sth...). I watched your video and you seemed introverted in my subjective impression.
Of course I’m also aware, that I watched an 18 min video and only had a brief glimpse into your life (I mean just saying...). I’m just giving my impression and that could be of course wrong. At the end it’s best when you decide for yourself and look for definite markers/things in your life, which have a definite anchor and go way back than socionics. I think you vibed introverted, because your focus often turns inward. I personally found it really palpable, like the energy around. Like you look/focus inside to catch/explain/express something internal. Pause to catch up... I think people pick this up in other people during conversation in real life as well (like the expression/movement in/of your eyes), so yeah... /2cents
You're welcome. I edited that post. Maybe my suggestions may help
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
1. Most of the time I try to at least look presentable. I'm far from a fashionista and care much more about feeling comfortable (and having pockets).
2. This is solid since I am really out of touch with my own behaviors. My internal thoughts I can analyze all day long, but ask me what my frequent behaviors are and I will be stumped.
You may want the input of family and friends on num 2
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
Thank you for your well thought out words and insights. You seem to get me in a vein that others have not been aware of.Re. LII. You do VI a bit like Alexander McQueen. I ping ponged around for his type. I leaned towards LII-Ne (EII-Ne, IEI might be possible too). He is in this area of ‚creative‘ LIIs for me (like working in film and fashion), where you get the feeling like you could kinda see exactly these 3 types for them or generally INxx. Tim Burton would be another example. Just talking MBTI, he often gets typed as INTP, INFP and INFJ. So yeah... I mean you said you related to Alpha and LII descriptions, but I think that can of course change with time when you stay and maybe read more and gain more understanding of yourself (or sth...). I watched your video and you seemed introverted in my subjective impression.
Of course I’m also aware, that I watched an 18 min video and only had a brief glimpse into your life (I mean just saying...). I’m just giving my impression and that could be of course wrong. At the end it’s best when you decide for yourself and look for definite markers/things in your life, which have a definite anchor and go way back than socionics. I think you vibed introverted, because your focus often turns inward. I personally found it really palpable, like the energy around. Like you look/focus inside to catch/explain/express something internal. Pause to catch up... I think people pick this up in other people during conversation in real life as well (like the expression/movement in/of your eyes), so yeah... /2cents
The VI you gave is very appropriate. He has the exact same eyes as me and general disposition if not for me having a little less having to do with inner judgement which is seen through the pursed lips where you can tell he is thinking about something and is making a judgement call on.
I will ask my father. He has really astounding observational capabilities.
Need an interview on himRe. LII. You do VI a bit like Alexander McQueen. I ping ponged around for his type. I leaned towards LII-Ne (EII-Ne, IEI might be possible too). He is in this area of ‚creative‘ LIIs for me (like working in film and fashion), where you get the feeling like you could kinda see exactly these 3 types for them or generally INxx. Tim Burton would be another example. Just talking MBTI, he often gets typed as INTP, INFP and INFJ. So yeah... I mean you said you related to Alpha and LII descriptions, but I think that can of course change with time when you stay and maybe read more and gain more understanding of yourself (or sth...). I watched your video and you seemed introverted in my subjective impression.
Of course I’m also aware, that I watched an 18 min video and only had a brief glimpse into your life (I mean just saying...). I’m just giving my impression and that could be of course wrong. At the end it’s best when you decide for yourself and look for definite markers/things in your life, which have a definite anchor and go way back than socionics. I think you vibed introverted, because your focus often turns inward. I personally found it really palpable, like the energy around. Like you look/focus inside to catch/explain/express something internal. Pause to catch up... I think people pick this up in other people during conversation in real life as well (like the expression/movement in/of your eyes), so yeah... /2cents
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
Your Testosterone-levels are probably low dude. Your depression/lack of motivation is just a sequela. Visit an endocrinologist.
Thanks, appreciate the feedback. When I was young, my mother was concerned about the same thing. They did a test and it turns out that I have a lot of testosterone.
Its the very small things that give it away that I have normal testosterone such as jaw clenching and assertive hand gestures.
What do you think of a person who doesn't look presentable in public?
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
I usually make a judgement that things are not going their way currently. I don't usually think of them in disgust, just that there is probably something else is playing a role in the way they appear such as culture/bad day or week or month/they don't care what they look like/they weren't brought up with the same kind of social etiquette as I was.
Do you sometimes stop to question "what is he wearing?!?!"
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
Not so much. More like "I haven't seen someone wear something like that before" and it will catch my interest that it is different (not strictly speaking of being unkempt). Kinda like when you see a real to life jimi hendrix outfit or something. Doesn't happen often.
I will post one in the McQueen thread to not derail this one. I will add some thoughts why I saw Ne creative, but of course you might have your own different opinion, bc he is not quite ‚stereotypical‘ LII idk... or you might have different thoughts/argumentations for his type.Need an interview on him
http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin/showthread.php/41731-Alexander-McQueen
Nice observations
I would be very curious to see what your father says about you
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
As long as I catch him in a decent mood, I'm sure he'll be able to give me a pretty good rundown.Nice observations
I would be very curious to see what your father says about you
Hi, QT! Good to see you around again!
I still see SLI for you. I was reviewing Delta values, especially for Te & Si, and see many of them in the way you approach your discussion about these topics. I'm copying them below for review.
As a highlight however, I notice many SLIs struggle with school, not because they are incapable, but because of the reasons listed under "subdued elements." When things are forced on them that don't make sense or aren't aligned to their values, they tend to have a negative response. Often times it's kept in their mind instead of expressed, unless to someone they truly trust, and it snowballs. And they might even use it that negative response to "fuel" another area of their life as a way to adapt, such as their fitness or work. Thus, the "reality" mixes with the "imagination" of the mind.
Other random observations that go along with the notes below:
-You discussed the need for having "peaceful" environments.
-You discuss your rationale and thought processes, rather than sharing specific experiences.
-You use words that are inclusive, such as the word "we", e.g. "this is the way WE think", saying "we" as in humans.
-You mention that your face may or may not match your emotions. From personal experience, this is a TeSi trait. My husband does it, and it took me awhile to figure out that he can be happy and content without always physically showing it.
Hope this is helpful
Delta is characterized as Judicious, Serious, and Aristocratic by Reinin dichotomies.
Valued elements
Te and Si
- Delta types make a point of talking about the rationale behind their actions and emphasizing the productiveness or unproductiveness of different ways of doing things - even in such emotional areas as personal relationships.
- Delta types value peaceful, refreshing activities where they are doing something useful and balancing out their inner world at the same time.
- Delta types have the philosophy that they will have to rely on their own industriousness to achieve their goals rather than on luck, speculation, group effort, or strong leadership.
Subdied Elements
Se and Ti
- Delta types do not fare well in high-pressure situations where they are being forced to do things, are facing threatening opponents, or are submitted to rigorous discipline, but wear out quickly and look for a more peaceful and welcoming environment.
Last edited by applejacks; 04-18-2016 at 05:01 PM.
And if God cares so wonderfully for flowers that are here today and gone tomorrow, won't he more surely care for you?- Matthew 6:30
Hi, QT! Good to see you around again!
I still see SLI for you. I was reviewing Delta values, especially for Te & Si, and see many of them in the way you approach your discussion about these topics. I'm copying them below for review.
As a highlight however, I notice many SLIs struggle with school, not because they are incapable, but because of the reasons listed under "subdued elements." When things are forced on them that don't make sense or aren't aligned to their values, they tend to have a negative response. Often times it's kept in their mind instead of expressed, unless to someone they truly trust, and it snowballs. And they might even use it that negative response to "fuel" another area of their life as a way to adapt, such as their fitness or work. Thus, the "reality" mixes with the "imagination" of the mind.
Hope this is helpful
Delta is characterized as Judicious, Serious, and Aristocratic by Reinin dichotomies.
Valued elements
Te and Si
- Delta types make a point of talking about the rationale behind their actions and emphasizing the productiveness or unproductiveness of different ways of doing things - even in such emotional areas as personal relationships.
- Delta types value peaceful, refreshing activities where they are doing something useful and balancing out their inner world at the same time.
- Delta types have the philosophy that they will have to rely on their own industriousness to achieve their goals rather than on luck, speculation, group effort, or strong leadership.
Subdied Elements
Se and Ti
- Delta types do not fare well in high-pressure situations where they are being forced to do things, are facing threatening opponents, or are submitted to rigorous discipline, but wear out quickly and look for a more peaceful and welcoming environment.
That does sound an awful lot like me. The only parts that I really disagree with is that I have come to know that getting help is often an appropriate action.
That does sound an awful lot like me. The only parts that I really disagree with is that I have come to know that getting help is often an appropriate action.
That could be maturity. Sounds like you recognized that it was totally fine to get help at a younger age than most.
P.S. sorry, I did some edits after I posted this. Good luck enneagram typing!
And if God cares so wonderfully for flowers that are here today and gone tomorrow, won't he more surely care for you?- Matthew 6:30
Yup.
That could be maturity. Sounds like you recognized that it was totally fine to get help at a younger age than most.
P.S. sorry, I did some edits after I posted this. Good luck enneagram typing!
As a late-to-the-party aside, Jeremy's reaction makes a nice example of 'toxic masculinity'. Secondly ime whipping people with dislike and contempt tends not to help, whereas acceptance and compassion loosen knots that years of whipping had not dented. People can be disturbingly ready to accuse you of the grossest moral failings for simply needing and trying to give yourself compassion. Props for boundaries.
More on-topic, SLI looks good for you. I don't have a strong rationale for it however.
Reason is a whore.
@Maritsa,
Here's what my father had to say about me (he was in a good but tired mood):
He said I do most small talk by rote.
One of the few observations he made about my actual behavior is that I will frequently walk in the living room where he is watching TV, not say a word, be there just long enough to get the general gist of what is going on and then I will just leave without saying anything. He said I came across as very aloof in this way.
He said I like to do new stuff, learn all about it and this transfers an ability to articulate what that subject is and talk about it in a technical way and that I would know the strategy behind it.
He said I was very feast or famine, meaning I am either giving 110% of my ability to it or 0%. He said most people do this to an extent, but the amount of effort that I put into doing it when its an interest is extreme.
He said I am pretty hard to read, what I'm thinking, what I'm feeling. He said I don't wear myself on my sleeve and that I am not an open book.
He said I like to try a lot of new things and he wishes he had that as a characteristic as well.
Said I am not a complainer.
Said I have a pleasant demeanor and that I have a genuine concern for others.
Introvert and Fe-PoLR based on the video. You're really concerned with articulating your inner world, but not very expressive.
Si probably over Ni because you don't seem to enjoy chaos.
I don't know, that's all I got,
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