Quote Originally Posted by JoshuaHilderberg View Post
No problem, you can use numbers, I will put quotes so that you can follow too.



Why are you confused ? What do you think when it happens ? When it happens, are you confused for yourself or for her or for another implication ? If you were to come back to a topic, what could be your reasons ? If you wanted to come back to a topic but you decide not to, what could be your reasons ?



Yeah, we are kind of look-a-like



I agree, but also EII may disregard having to restrict themselves to a well defined rational point of view. They will mix different logical structures or different logical aspects of the subject without expliciting the logical connections or the changes of points of view. I tell myself: what EII says is usually consistent, but not how they say it. While the smaller details of their speech is usually logical, the global structure is not. Examples: switching to a different meaning for the same words that were previously used, literally saying 2 contradictory statements 5 minutes apart (the meaning is not contradictory, but the statements are), not keeping implicit assumptions consistent in a conversation. So I need to find and recreate the global Ti structure of their speech to understand them. Otherwise, they will appear to me as off topic or illogical, because they don't conform to the logical context that is expected. They tend to not see or to disregard the logical formal structure.

Well somehow, EII are not completely wrong in doing so, because a rational view or explanation of an object is just that: a view, an external structure through which we view the object. So I think it is also great to be able to dismiss this limitation at times But it took me some time to appreciate it for more than a perpetual communication dissonance that is due to the fact that the EII will not completely abide by the logical structure. What interests me the most is the logical structure. Refining the logical structures is my natural way to find and understand the deep truths of this world. It is the basis of my insights. So sharing and getting comments and refinements on it is one of the most interesting things to me. Now with EII, I decided to just build the missing logical connections for myself, and don't view it as a limitation of their "wisdom".



Yep I understand. Would you say that Ti feels like an external arbitrary limitation to you ? Could you elaborate ?



I don't understand. You say that LII don't show that they can understand the personality of other people because if LII showed that they could understand others then they would be taken advantage of ? How can you take advantage of an ability to understand others ? Do you mean: understanding others or understanding our relation to others ?


PS: Although it doesn't matter much, I prefer Joshua to Josh, but thanks for the kind gesture. (Maybe it is because I am not used to nicknames in my area...)
Hey Joshua! Finally getting around to answering these. Sorry for the delay. Life's been weird.


I think it confuses me when someone tries to pick up the thread of a dead conversation because I feel like it just makes an awkward situation more awkward. It's also not something I ever experience with other ethical types, though I suppose I might have done it when I was much younger. It's something I notice alpha NTs doing a lot. I know one ILE in particular who has the weirdest conversation patterns ever. She gets "bored" with most things almost instantly, both via text communication and in real life, but rather than move on to something that interests her, she fixates on the thing that's boring her and tries to force you to introduce it in a more palatable way, then becomes confrontational when she senses that the other person is bored. It's weird. Eventually, I caught on to what things she found interesting and only brought up those, but "only talking about ____" pissed her off. Lol. Sometimes I just can't win with alpha NTs.


As far as Ti being an external arbitrary limitation... not really, but I guess I focus on Ti mainly where it's linked with Se. So I'm apt to use it much more in concrete, real world scenarios. I can use it more theoretically, but that's almost accidental. I care about being "right" about things I want to understand, but I don't care enough to try to be right about everything. I simply admit the limits of my own knowledge and leave it at that. Ti pursuits are not always things I have the energy or time for, and it feels like I need a real-world context to justify them. I find it embarrassing when people are so sure of their Ti conclusions while being completely wrong, though.


On the last bit, I think LIIs don't like to necessarily advertise their interest in other people or their relationships, because they might feel like their emotional energy would be preyed upon if people knew their true sentiments. Example: not wanting a group to know what they've observed of a person so that they won't be dragged into gossipping about that person. Or expected to do emotional labor past what they feel like doing. Not that there's anything wrong with that!