The earth is round

[Eliza Thomason]

Of course Damnation is a doctrine of the Christian church historically, and still is considered as such by the Catholic Church. Not sure what you are intending to dispute here. There is nothing more evil to dream up than to eternally torture someone (I don't believe in evil myself, as I've said before, but as I've said before, because people believe that such a doctrine is just in effect means it is an "evil" doctrine (and the worst one), and there are people who have been fundamentally corrupted by their belief in it.
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Damnation -- yes, its a reality. We have talked about this already though, remember. We can revisit that on that thread if you want clarification on something already said. Also i will let Jesus address it to you below.

...If you are talking about theologians, most all of them are crank and use apologetics...

Aye yai yai. Guess what? There are actually are scholarly and accomplished theologians. Who are way smarter than you. And always have been. I don't know why this should be news to you. You may know a little bit about a lot of things, but you don't know everything about everything. Really. Actually truly.

Most of them can't even read Hebrew, and more than half of them can't even understand the basic principles of Hebrew Grammar.. First party theologians have too much invested interest in a particular narrative ..., and there is a reason why you rarely ever reference them in the academic arena.. , and anyone can note this, when for example, we look at mainstream secular archaeology and anthropology vs Mormon theologians.. .

You just don't know enough about actual theologians, Jackal.

...Citation is required.. What doctrine of hers are you talking about? Or are you trying to be clever and say that the Bible doesn't condemn non-believers? If that is the case, I would be more than happy to educate you further on that "Doctrine". .

I am going to broadly address these "points" below. But you should know that your Socionics Identical, Subteigh, is a he, not she. Understandable mistake.

...I beg to wonder if you realize the human body is made up of mostly bacteria and other non-human cells...,.

But I work hard to keep the bad bacteria population as low as possible...

What do you think a soul is made of?

...
this and that human living cells are Eukaryota cells to which are genetically related to single celled Eukaryota.. It is further notable that those non-human cells do much of the work that not only keeps you alive, but help regulate the chemical balance and functioning of your brain..We are multi-cellular organisms.. . We know who your parents and ancestors are through genetics alone, and through the same forensic science we can convict murderers and rapists for their crimes, or exonerate them for that matter.. The Church isn't going to rule on evolution? What church are you specifically talking about as there are tens of thousands of them? The Catholic Church not only contributed to modern evolutionary synthesis, but directly teaches it.. They don't hold to the errors of the Bible even though they cherry pick from it what they want to believe and adhere to as others do.. But we can at least say they aren't ignorant of evolutionary theory. And if you can worship a deity you believe has committed mass genocide, you're in no position to be arguing about how your "Church" will keep your morals straight.. Hell, you can't even manage intellectual fortitude and integrity here.., and I didn't realize lying was a moral value... .

...Again you need to learn proper etiquette...

Sigh.

...... Ad nauseam. ....

Right!

Nobody here has spread lies about your faith.. , and if anything they have presented you a much deeper understanding of your religion and its origin. .

... You are free however to choose to ignore it and everything else.. You can convince yourself that infanticide isn't real and that Moses didn't Conspire with Yahweh to kill every first born in Egypt ....

Legion have mined scripture to provide proof of their own ideas doctrines and conclusions, just like you. This tact of yours is nothing new. As wise King Solomon said, "There is nothing new under the sun".

(Above it, maybe! Like, a firmament!)

Jackal, those religious people that you have no respect for whatsoever, that the average person sees as "salt of the earth" types, are the ones who are simply and honestly reading it to understand what its trying to tell us. You should try that sometime.

..."Worship thy abuser out of fear there of..".. .

You are mistaken in your understanding of the meaning of the word "fear" in "fear of God". As in the statement, "The fear of God is the beginning of Wisdom". [That statement is time-tested wisdom. Truly ther is nothign new under the sun.]. You need to educate yourself in original languages, and then you won't make that mistake.

I am not at all impressed with your "Church" or "Religion", and this was one of many reasons why I left the Church..

Let's talk about that.

. I am not much into worshiping Narcissistic constructs or Egos with delusions of grandeur...

Thats good! Better to worship Who IS Grandeur.

Someone once asked me ; "What is greater than GOD?"...

No one.

. My answer was simple: "Existence itself".. .

Well, I am glad you did not say "Me!".

... So when I ask a theist and my fellow former Christian brothers "What is god without existence", I get condemnation as a typical response when they realize that what they are worshiping is the ego of a Narcissist with delusions of grandeur for which derived from ancient Pagan Mythology and Pagan Polytheism.., and largely through the common practice of assimilation.. .

They realize that? I kind of doubt it. C'mon, Jackal. Get real. I believe that's your accusation, though.

..However, this doesn't mean you don't have the right to believe in it, or find comfort in it.. I understand that when someone confronts you on this, especially by an Atheist such as myself, it can appear to be without heart or emotion... That however couldn't be further from the truth..., and those that care most about others will be bluntly truthful and upfront with you even if it results in disagreement or conflict of beliefs. Hence, I respect you enough as a person to treat you as an adult and offer you my honest opinion and whatever knowledge I have on any given subject..

Aw, the softer side comes out ever so slightly. I appreciate that. You are not a complete bully with a bat.

Well, I will say a little bit about religion/ faith. Then I have some words of Jesus, for you, to share with you that you haven't seen before.

You, Jackal and Subteigh, are both INTp's and as demonstrated just in a few posts in this thread, you take an INTp approach to religious discussion (and not AT ALL an EII approach, Subteigh. Quite, quite different!).

Here, this is you two: The INTp shows an intense interest in religion and is more often than not delving into his studies of Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism, Hinduism, and any other religion ancient or modern that strikes his interest. He shows a mish-mash of beliefs and usually does not commit to one religion or the other.
That's you exactly.

So you will be straining against type to commit to belief in or religion. Yes. I know three INTps that are Christians, so its not impossible for an INTp to commit. As we know of INTp's, they can wait and wait forever to commit. Its a weakness (and a strength). Rather than commit, you prefer to delve into studying beliefs and ways and loads of pedantry about all different religions - and never consider it as faith.


Subteigh, I the link I am linking in this paragraph I have linked to you before - these words of Jesus written to those who reject God. You did not comment on it, but I understand. Its profound. And powerful. So this link is particularly for Jackal's sake, this link of the words of Jesus to Atheists of our times, here.


I think I am realizing that the problem with you both is that you like observing and talking about religion, but not God. Jesus, God is real. Its a relationship. You have to be willing to have a relationship. Is that the problem? Unwillingness? There has to be at least some willingness to believe that its a reality, if it is. Yes, you have to be willing to be willing to believe, at least. Or willing to be made willing to be willing to believe. At least. You have to be willing to say, "God, if you are real, speak to me. I am listening. Show me." God respects your free will. If you DO NOT WANT to know Him, and do NOT WANT Him to show you He is real, He is NOT going to force himself on you. He respects your free will. He wants you to be whole and free and not His slave or puppet. So He waits for you to be willing. He stands at the door and knocks, waiting for you to let Him in, so He can sit and sup with you.

Maybe you don't want to know that He is real, because then you have to believe, and you are more comfortable being an island, a Critic, alone. And you might have to follow Him and He might expect things of you. Don't worry, He is a loving father and does not expect you to be everything at once and He knows some things are just too hard to do. He helps you when you are ready to have His help.

Its just that simple. That simple step you don't want to take. But this prayer works for anyone: "Lord, if you exist, please save my soul if it exists". Now, you can pray that, right?


Here, below, is what Jesus says to you, Subteigh and Jackal. Consider this:


[Jesus says]...You will spend
eternity in one of two places, dear little soul.
You must give this serious thought and
determine where you would like to reside.
You say you do not believe in God or you do
not believe that God would send people to
hell forever. I tell you today that it is not I,
the only God there is, who condemns souls to
hell. It is the soul himself who chooses to
reside in hell. Do you know why the soul
chooses hell? Because there are like-minded
souls there. A soul who aligns himself with
darkness does not choose heaven because
that soul would not be comfortable in
heaven. You must understand that you can
be angry with God but God is not at fault.
You can blame God for all that is wrong
with your world and perhaps this will work
for youonearth. I assure youthough, onthis
day, that this will cease to work for you at
the moment of your death. At that time there
will be only yourself to blame as the truth is
inescapable. You will be facing the one, the
only,and the true God and attempting to tell
Him that He does not exist. How do you
think this will go for you? It will not go well,
dear soul, and that is why I am speaking to
you now. I want you to divert from this path
that leads to damnation. You are choosing
against Me now and I am asking you to stop.
I love you. There are many Christians in this
world who love you and My love will flow
through them to you. I want you for My
Kingdom. I need you to serve Me. You are
capable of the highest goodness. You are
capable of bringing many souls to heaven
for Me. Some of My greatest friends were far
worse sinners than you. Please come back to
Me. I love you and I can heal you and cure
you. My forgiveness is yours. That hardly
needs to be said. The greater difficulty will
be in persuading you to forgive yourself but
I am God and that would be only a small
miracle for Me to perform. I will do that for
you. I will make of you another Jesus,
walking the earth in love. Do you want this?
Can you picture it? Now, do not wait any
longer. I shower you with graces. Lift your
precious face to the heavens and feel My love
as I beseech you to turn away from sin and
follow Me.

There is more. You can read the whole booklet of Jesus' words to you, here.