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    Quote Originally Posted by End View Post
    Well, the first thing everyone has to come to terms with is that we *all* have a "God" to which we offer our prayers and are willing to sacrifice both comfort and indeed our very lives for. Whether it be ideology or deity, we all have an entity in which we place an irrational "faith" into and vehemently stand for.
    Umm no... Atheists do not have a "God" to which they offer prayers to and are willing to sacrifice both comfort and their lives for. Sorry, but that argument is strictly of the theists.

    while they sure has hell hate the notion of a "God" and see it as irrational like he does
    Atheists don't hate the notion of God..., they simply don't accept your claim that one exists.. Dislike of a God worshiped or in literature largely depends on the Character there of, regardless if we find them mythological. But you already knew this when trolling with your formal and informal logical fallacies.. What I find interesting is how dishonest so many theists are when they get into these discussions.., you can't seem to stop using fallacious arguments.

    The more of a theist you are, the more likely you are to have faith in freedom (makes sense, Jesus supposedly "freed" us from sin if scripture holds true). The more atheist you are, the more you hate on freedom and insist that we need the State to regulate human behavior.


    This is of course a load of crap.., and I beg to wonder what you call a theocracy.. Government is not an issue of religious position, especially when it is secular, and the irony of you saying that it is Atheists looking to govern every facet of human behavior while it is the Christians here in the US looking to subjugate and ban gays and lesbians with many calls to commit genocide against them is astounding to say the least. I will just leave this here as an example of how laughably dishonest and crank your argument is:

    https://thejackelscolumn.wordpress.c...se-in-america/

    https://www.facebook.com/KnowPolitical/videos/1110690185632339/
    http://www.yuricareport.com/Dominion...orationAct.htm

    Such legislation would acknowledge that, quoting from, and following along from Theocracywatch.org :

    Christianity’s God as the “sovereign source” of our laws. It would reach back in history and reverse all judicial decisions that have built a wall between church and state, and it would prohibit federal judges from making such
    The endeavor to and danger to our freedom’s are echoed in the words of Rev. Joseph Morecraft. He’s a pastor of the Reconstructionist Chalcedon Presbyterian Church in Marietta, Georgia. Yes another bible state wanting dominion theological rule. Morecraft describes explicitly how he views democracy as mob rule while stating that civil government is to:

    “bring down the wrath of God to bear on all those who practice evil!””And how do you terrorize an evil doer?” he asked. “You enforce Biblical law!”

    This is according to him:
    “to protect the church of Jesus Christ,”


    “Nobody has the right to worship on this planet any other God than Jehovah. And therefore the state does not have the responsibility to defend anybody’s pseudo-right to worship an idol!” “There ain’t no such thing” as religious pluralism, “There has never been such a condition in the history of mankind. There is no such place now. There never will be.”
    To conclude I dare say our greatest threat facing us today is from within. It is not China or the terrorists in some far off land that pose such a danger in the here and now, it is the rise of the Christian Taliban, the fundamentalist Christian Nationalism sweeping across the Bible belt of America. And they don’t just want rule and control here, they want to spread this control and hold dominion over the rest of the world until their lord Jesus should return.. This to which is essentially indefinitely until our species goes extinct. These people are religious fanatical Narcissists bound and wrapped in Fascist elitism. And on that note I close with Randall Terry, Gary North, and Sinclair Lewis:
    Randall Terry:
    I want you to just let a wave of intolerance wash over you. I want you to let a wave of hatred wash over you. Yes, hate is good… Our goal is a Christian nation. We have a biblical duty, we are called on by God to conquer this country. We don’t want equal time. We don’t want pluralism.” Randall Terry, founder of Operation Rescue, in The News-Sentinel, Fort Wayne, Indiana 8/16/93
    Gary North:
    So let us be blunt about it: We must use the doctrine of religious liberty to gain independence for Christian schools until we train up a generation of people who know that there is no religious neutrality, no neutral law, no neutral education, and no neutral civil government. Then they will be get busy in constructing a Bible-based social, political and religious order which finally denies the religious liberty of the enemies of God.”
    .quoted in Albert J. Menendez, Visions of Reality:
    What Fundamentalist Schools Teach Prometheus Books, 1993
    Sinclair Lewis:
    When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and waving a cross
    Most Atheists are not "Statetheists" they are secularists who support a secular government.. A government that is neither an Atheist state, or Fascist theocracy. And we all know that the most peaceful nations on Earth are secular...

    I frequently say that stereotypes need to have a grain of truth within them to become established.
    Like theists using fallacy arguments and lying...?
    Last edited by TheJackal; 02-11-2016 at 09:16 AM.

  2. #242

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    narrow banking y/n

  3. #243
    Serious Left-Static Negativist Eliza Thomason's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremy8419 View Post
    Well, for one, you're LSI...
    No! She is too in touch with her feelings to be LSI. She thinks she is IEE. I think she is SEE. I think I am IEE. You think I am SEE.

    What I want to know is, does she think you are ILI?
    "A man with a definite belief always appears bizarre, because he does not change with the world; he has climbed into a fixed star, and the earth whizzes below him like a zoetrope."
    ........ G. ........... K. ............... C ........ H ........ E ...... S ........ T ...... E ........ R ........ T ........ O ........ N ........


    "Having a clear faith, based on the creed of the Church, is often labeled today as fundamentalism... Whereas relativism, which is letting oneself be tossed and swept along
    by every wind of teaching, looks like the only
    attitude acceptable to today's standards."
    - Pope Benedict the XVI, "The Dictatorship of Relativism"

    .
    .
    .


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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremy8419 View Post
    Well, for one, you're LSI and he is your Business ITR, and you're oblivious to the reality that your Ne is gimped compared to the norms of society.

    "God" is a term that is a placeholder. Terms, words, thoughts, concepts, dimensions, time, space, etc. are all bounded things. "God" is a placeholder for that which is boundless, and, thus, contains all these things and more. This is what the term means when people use it. This is why "I am," "Yahweh," "Tetragrammaton," and "God" exist, because what they are placeholders for has no bounds to allow it to ever be known, conceived, spoken, etc. as it is infinite, all-inclusive, and all-exclusive in ways that it is beyond all things. If you think you "know it," then it is a part of "God" as what "God" is placeholder for has no bounds.
    If "god" has a tangible effect on reality, he is within the laws of the universe, not outside it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eliza Thomason View Post
    Yes, and He ate lamb at passover. (But can't agree with with your "no reason". Every word and action of the Word has meaning).
    If it was possible to remove demons and possible to destroy demons, it could have been without killing a swine of pigs. The demons were able to possess one individual...and there is no reason to think that Jesus could not have destroyed the demons without them possessing something. But if this was not the case, why could he not kill mosquitoes or fig trees instead?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Subteigh View Post
    If "god" has a tangible effect on reality, he is within the laws of the universe, not outside it.
    God = [laws of the universe, laws of other universes and dimensions, you, your cat, your cat's poop, pi, etc., ...]

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kim View Post
    I never attempted to define god in the first place. I said there does not need to be a god for there to be a universe. You then presented a definition of god to contradict me, only that it's not applicable because I don't share the belief system that defines god as such. So your point is therefore null and void.
    We can just the concept in general and cut the shit as they say ... Hence when put in the following context, it is irrelevant what definition is being used as logically speaking it's moot.(This keeping in mind that Existence defined as the totality of all that exists)..:

    Q1: What is GOD without existence?
    A1: Non-existent, meaningless, pointless, irrelevant.
    Q2: If Existence is GOD, then what of existence is not?
    A2: If existence is GOD, then by definition everything and everyone of existence is GOD.
    Q3: If Existence is not GOD, then what of existence is?
    A3: If Existence to which is the sum total and essence of everything is not “GOD”, then by definition there isn’t anything of existence to which is.

    It's literally all or nothing logically.., and technically speaking there is only Existence and what Existence is and is doing.. At no point is the concept of god even relevant or necessary to consider... A theist can feel free to explain causality, explain purpose, meaning, our origins, or anything at all without Existence.. If they can do that without appealing to self-refutation..., maybe then I will consider the concept.. Until then, no concept has any real meaning or inherent real world value. It is at best a title and concept of opinion, and anyone being that thinks itself a GOD is a narcissist with delusions of grandeur easily deflated by that very first question.. I need not hate the idea, concept, or any particular god character, it's all logically nonsensical and moot.. It would be further incoherent for one part of existence to worship another part of itself as "God" while damning the parts that do not.. That would be some serious mental disorder and psychosis. The who idea in general is painfully ridiculous..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremy8419 View Post
    You can't converse with someone if you're both using different definitions. Eliza is speaking of a physical manifestation of God and the dogma that immediately surrounds such, and you're speaking of an individual god. There is a difference between "God" and "god," and you seem incapable of processing the distinction.
    If a god is defined as having supernatural properties, I can comprehend it, but I naturally cannot observed it. Supernatural entities do not exist. I don't see how "god" as a concept is at all useful, if it has no tangible effect on the physical (in the philosophical sense) world.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremy8419 View Post
    God = [laws of the universe, laws of other universes and dimensions, you, your cat, your cat's poop, pi, etc., ...]
    No, the laws of the universe are the laws of nature. God cannot be a law of the universe, because it is not observable (this is exclusively because it is defined as a supernatural entity).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Subteigh View Post
    If a god is defined as having supernatural properties, I can comprehend it, but I naturally cannot observed it. Supernatural entities do not exist. I don't see how "god" as a concept is at all useful, if it has no tangible effect on the physical (in the philosophical sense) world.
    So then don't discuss God nor enter into discussions on such? When you go from God to discussions of various beliefs' manifestations of God, while calling such "God" (or "god" or "a god" in your vocabulary), you're already speaking as though you are involved in one conversation whilst the other person is speaking in a different conversation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Subteigh View Post
    No, the laws of the universe are the laws of nature. God cannot be a law of the universe, because it is not observable (this is exclusively because it is defined as a supernatural entity).
    That's an array... Laws of the universe are contained within God, by the fact that the laws of nature are bounded. All things bounded exist within the unbounded, which is God. Notice that I included Pi, an infinitely repeating number, within God, because is bounded by "number." All numbers exist within God.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremy8419 View Post
    So then don't discuss God nor enter into discussions on such? When you go from God to discussions of various beliefs' manifestations of God, while calling such "God" (or "god" or "a god" in your vocabulary), you're already speaking as though you are involved in one conversation whilst the other person is speaking in a different conversation.
    It is you who should not enter debates regarding "God", seeing as you don't seem to know what the definition of "God" is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremy8419 View Post
    So then don't discuss God nor enter into discussions on such? When you go from God to discussions of various beliefs' manifestations of God, while calling such "God" (or "god" or "a god" in your vocabulary), you're already speaking as though you are involved in one conversation whilst the other person is speaking in a different conversation.
    Not really, there aren't very many gods worshiped to which aren't under the umbrella of "Supernatural" ... The Pantheist god is probably among the extremely few ... Essentially speaking though, he is correct in saying that "god" as a concept is not at all useful.. You can see my previous post as it is essentially a moot concept entirely no matter which supposed idea of God someone is supposedly adhering to.. When you bring the concept to the furthest you can move the goal post, it entirely self-collapses as anything remotely meaningful.. It is essentially nonsense. Defied and made moot by Existence itself.. Hence, nobody ever even needs consider the concept at all, it is a made-up construct... All anyone really needs consider is Existence itself.... That is literally it.... The concept of god will vanish with the extinction of the human species.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremy8419 View Post
    That's an array... Laws of the universe are contained within God, by the fact that the laws of nature are bounded. All things bounded exist within the unbounded, which is God. Notice that I included Pi, an infinitely repeating number, within God, because is bounded by "number." All numbers exist within God.
    If you assert that something is "Omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent, omni-", you should prove it. It is very dangerous to believe in absolutes without empirical data to back them up.

    If you believe in a supernatural being, I already know you cannot prove it, and that you are talking about something that has no meaningful effect on the universe.

    Don't reduce actual things to "god". Cut straight to the point, and don't hide behind fluffy ideologies.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Subteigh View Post
    It is you who should not enter debates regarded "God", seeing as you don't seem to know what the definition of "God" is.
    Lol. I understand the definition perfectly. It is you that aren't able to logically process it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Subteigh View Post
    If you assert that something is "Omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent, omni-", you should prove it. It is very dangerous to believe in absolutes without empirical data to back them up.

    If you believe in a supernatural being, I already know you cannot prove it, and that you are talking about something that has no meaningful effect on the universe.

    Don't reduce actual things to "god". Cut straight to the point, and don't hide behind fluffy ideologies.
    Hide? You're the one who is hiding lol.

    Provable and improvable are two separate concepts. By such, they are bounded. By the fact that two exclusive bounded concepts exist, they must exist within an unbounded space, that which is God.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremy8419 View Post
    Lol. I understand the definition perfectly. It is you that aren't able to logically process it.
    If you believe in an eternal being that created everything and is able to be outside its creation, you believe in a supernatural being. It is pretty straightforward.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Subteigh View Post
    If you believe in an eternal being that created everything and is able to be outside its creation, you believe in a supernatural being. It is pretty straightforward.
    Swing and a miss

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremy8419 View Post
    Hide? You're the one who is hiding lol.

    Provable and improvable are two separate concepts. By such, they are bounded. By the fact that two exclusive bounded concepts exist, they must exist within an unbounded space, that which is God.
    No. Provable things always exist, improvable things could hypothetically exist unless they are impossible. 'God' does not even work as a testable hypothesis, because a hypothesis needs to be a possible statement or explanation based on observation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Subteigh View Post
    No. Provable things always exist, improvable things could hypothetically exist unless they are impossible. 'God' does not even work as a testable hypothesis, because a hypothesis needs to be a possible statement or explanation based on observation.
    That's God too lmao

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremy8419 View Post
    That's God too lmao
    You seem to see God in everything. I personally think he is more evasive than you are, however.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Subteigh View Post
    You seem to see God in everything. I personally think he is more evasive than you are, however.
    You're so blatantly ESI, it's redonkulous lol

    Human + Human = God
    Divine + Divine = God
    Human + Divine = God
    God + Human = God
    God - Human = God
    God + Creation = God
    God - Creation = God
    God + Laws of nature = God
    Abstract + Concrete = God
    Provable = God
    Unprovable = God
    Provable * Unprovable = God
    Your mom + my D = God
    Equal sign = God

    You're terribad at Ne, homie.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremy8419 View Post
    You're so blatantly ESI, it's redonkulous lol

    Human + Human = God
    Divine + Divine = God
    Human + Divine = God
    God + Human = God
    God - Human = God
    God + Creation = God
    God - Creation = God
    God + Laws of nature = God
    Abstract + Concrete = God
    Provable = God
    Unprovable = God
    Provable * Unprovable = God
    Your mom + my D = God
    Equal sign = God

    You're terribad at Ne, homie.
    I will hope for your salvation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Subteigh View Post
    I will hope for your salvation.
    Thanks, God.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremy8419 View Post
    Thanks, God.
    Is that a salutation or a valediction?

    Your position is incredibly materialistic for someone who has no substance.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Subteigh View Post
    Is that a salutation or a valediction?

    Your position is incredibly materialistic for someone who has no substance.
    It's both. It's God. Publicly declare infallibility of existence of God, and someone says they hope for my salvation... Sounds like God to me *shrug*

    Substance is for those unwilling to be a substance.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremy8419 View Post
    It's both. It's God. Publicly declare infallibility of existence of God, and someone says they hope for my salvation... Sounds like God to me *shrug*

    Substance is for those unwilling to be a substance.
    It seems that you are still assuming that things exist.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Subteigh View Post
    It seems that you are still assuming that things exist.
    It seems that you are still assuming independent "things" must exist or not exist by the placement of boundaries for exclusion to define all which they are not.

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    Serious Left-Static Negativist Eliza Thomason's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Subteigh View Post
    If it was possible to remove demons and possible to destroy demons, it could have been without killing a swine of pigs. The demons were able to possess one individual...and there is no reason to think that Jesus could not have destroyed the demons without them possessing something. But if this was not the case, why could he not kill mosquitoes or fig trees instead?
    I love this question and I answered it. Then I discussed it with my husband and we spent a lot of time talking about this incidence (the swine) and now I have more to write on it, so I will have to get to it later because I've got to go.)
    "A man with a definite belief always appears bizarre, because he does not change with the world; he has climbed into a fixed star, and the earth whizzes below him like a zoetrope."
    ........ G. ........... K. ............... C ........ H ........ E ...... S ........ T ...... E ........ R ........ T ........ O ........ N ........


    "Having a clear faith, based on the creed of the Church, is often labeled today as fundamentalism... Whereas relativism, which is letting oneself be tossed and swept along
    by every wind of teaching, looks like the only
    attitude acceptable to today's standards."
    - Pope Benedict the XVI, "The Dictatorship of Relativism"

    .
    .
    .


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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremy8419 View Post
    It seems that you are still assuming independent "things" must exist or not exist by the placement of boundaries for exclusion to define all which they are not.
    If you believe that, then I forgive you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Subteigh View Post
    If you believe that, then I forgive you.
    If you don't believe that, then I forgive you as well.

    See? God is easy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremy8419 View Post
    If you don't believe that, then I forgive you as well.

    See? God is easy.
    If you don't get yours, I won't get mine as well.

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    Eliza, you should follow the conversation. I'm not sure what your sect of Christianity is, nor who your local leaders are, but the conversation applies to the Christian God. This is the underlying foundation of your beliefs, upon which Jesus died for. Jesus was both human and divine, two separate and exclusive things, which through love of God exist as one, not just within one, but within the potential for us all, and it is important to be able to delineate thoughts when necessary to view the God that rests within us all. Only by doing so are we ever able to even glimpse the slightest bit of personal understanding of His love.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremy8419 View Post
    Eliza, you should follow the conversation. I'm not sure what your sect of Christianity is, nor who your local leaders are, but the conversation applies to the Christian God. This is the underlying foundation of your beliefs, upon which Jesus died for. Jesus was both human and divine, two separate and exclusive things, which through love of God exist as one, not just within one, but within the potential for us all, and it is important to be able to delineate thoughts when necessary to view the God that rests within us all. Only by doing so are we ever able to even glimpse the slightest bit of personal understanding of His love.
    ^ Capitalistic codswallop.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Subteigh View Post
    ^ Capitalistic codswallop.
    Well, it's understandable by her lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremy8419 View Post
    Well, it's understandable by her lol
    I did not dispute it was understandable. You really are being an imperialistic materialist now, in a relative way.

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    So we're agreed; god is ILI; god isn't is

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    Quote Originally Posted by Subteigh View Post
    I did not dispute it was understandable. You really are being an imperialistic materialist now, in a relative way.
    Doh, my bad

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremy8419 View Post
    Doh, my bad
    At least you'll know why you'll burn.

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    So we're agreed; jung is god.

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