Examples of dual couples

[Aylen]

I have. I have been one. Like I say, we mirror the admosphere, but don't lead. Our rowdy has a reserve, like I said above, "Delta is not going to abandon her caution against possibly hurting feelings/offending anyone."

Also I said, above:

"IEE hidden agenda: To Understand. Yes, I really want to understand this and these distinctions and why people would have a wrong guess. In this case I think that there is some confusion over Lookalikes. If one already has it in mind that various IEE-lookalike celebrities or friends are IEE, then I can certainly see why one would say Kat is IEE."
That's what I think. I think you also have some confusion over what is the distinction between these lookalikes. So I am curious what you think the distinctions are. What differences would help you discern the two??


Makes sense.

Sure.


You have to read closer what I wrote. We get rowdy, but its slightly but distinctively different from SEE's rowdy. Its a different kind of party-girl than her lookalike. And "rambunctious" would be a distinction.



No, not at all. You did not read with discernment. This is an wrong assumption you are making here about my approach to this topic. Look: I said:
"IEE: has a closed posture at a party, in spite of her open friendliness. Pretty hard to be rambunctious with a closed posture. "
Think on that. I would have to look up the closed-posture thing - not sure where I saw it, and this almost hard to notice at first becaseu IEE is open in spirit at a party. Not her posture though. There is a reserve to her "let-loose and get-wild," if you can call it that. This is not morality or religion-related, its type related.

"Socionics crosses gender, race, culture" is what I said in an above post. Though I thought this was obvious, I will now specifically add: religion, morality and time period to that statement.

No. Its not semantics. Words have meaning. And one way to tell the difference between two lookalikes is to discern the meanings of the words in the Socionics descriptions.

And of course SEEs can be serious! They have every mood. The do not approach life like its a big party, just because they can party, and well.

"
I don't agree that the time frame descriptions makes them any less true, or changes their essential meaning.

Wait, you were a party girl???

I brought up religion because you went on a tangent after I mentioned she was raised by christian parents. I probably shouldn't have mentioned it. I know SEE that don't party. I would like to see what you mean by posture though. There is a lot on body language and it is influenced by psychological factors that would not be socionics related.

Can you tell me why culture and timeframe does not effect type descriptions? From what I can tell the descriptions were NOT based on say 1970s American values. Was partying something women did regularly there? I would have to look more into prevalent beliefs in the Soviet Union at the time but I am sure they were oppressive.

This isn't even about Kat anymore for me. I don't care if she is martian. I have said many times the descriptions are sexist and outdated. That is my opinion but I see it changing in American socionics descriptions. If I read the original Russian translations first I probably would have ran and missed out on all this.

My assumption is that you put your faith first therefore everything is seen through that lens. Maybe I am wrong and you consider yourself IEE first and christian second. I don't want to misunderstand you.

[Eliza Thomason]

Wait, you were a party girl???

I was just trying to find myself.

I brought up religion because you went on a tangent after I mentioned she was raised by Christian parents.

Actually I ignored that completely because she all she did was mention it, not explain it. It clearly wasn't an important point in her story. An IEE would have run with that one, explaining how her parents beliefs affected her, how she agreed/disagreed and what seems true or right to her, explaining how her beliefs changed and what they are and where they are evolving now. But that's not how a SEE would write and that's not how Kat writes/talks. I mean, where is the "Lately I have been realizing..." Nope. Not IEE.

I probably shouldn't have mentioned it. I know SEE that don't party.

Maybe thats a SEE lookalike.

I would like to see what you mean by posture though. There is a lot on body language and it is influenced by psychological factors that would not be socionics related.

Discussed here on the forum once; somehow related to a Reinin. I have to find it.

Can you tell me why culture and timeframe does not effect type descriptions? From what I can tell the descriptions were NOT based on say 1970s American values. Was partying something women did regularly there? I would have to look more into prevalent beliefs in the Soviet Union at the time but I am sure they were oppressive.

Well, for example, some of the IEE examples/stories that are written of are either shocking or embarassing like how the IEE wife ignores her poor husband when he comes home, to a house milling with casual guests, including her latest she is sleeping with. I don't know, maybe they did that more in the 70s being more unaware of the STDs? But this is a culture without the influence of Christian values - not my experience. So different time, different culture, influencing the behavior yet I can relate to the IEEness of the polyamourous wife.

I think the same author wrote of a husband-stealing SEE. Now, my dh's SEE daughter is not going to steal someone's husband. She was raised better than that. But given the right upbringing, yeah, and for the reasons that author wrote.

More on polyamorurs IEE wife - maybe she is sx first, and I relate. But she doesn't have what I have. I know God is real, because I know Jesus, who is known to those who want it. Because I know Him, I love Him, and I want to what He wants, and I trust Him. He MADE us. He knows what He designed us for and what is good and what is not - no matter how it might seem to me - and believe me, I am like anyone else in that I think what God asks sometimes is TOO MUCH. But His yoke is easy and His burden is light because He helps us with everything He asks of us. Which can seem too much, yes, because our ways are not God's ways. God's ways are best. See how that changes it? This is a way of believing that is completely outside type.

Recently Dh and I made new couple friends. What a nice surprise,. Like a present. They are keepers. Husband is a LSE. I recognize my brother in him immediately. Only, this LSE REALLY practices his faith, a true, deep, admirable, longtime faith. Yet while being so much like my LSE brother! His presence, his posture, his busyness - so many things! My LSE brother, while he does not put down the Christian influence on his roots, he does not practice it; he is worldy. Its really neat to see the difference - to see what it looks like for a LSE to walk in faith.

Christianity and religious faith or beliefs is a thing outside of type. Also so is culture, race, gender, and even psychological disorders (its interesting to compare my disordered ex with other healthy ESEs I know. So different, but the same.

This isn't even about Kat anymore for me. I don't care if she is martian. I have said many times the descriptions are sexist and outdated. That is my opinion but I see it changing in American socionics descriptions. If I read the original Russian translations first I probably would have ran and missed out on all this.

I don't think sexism changes it. Its a bit more work if you are a type more intensely feminine and you are a man, and visa versa. But you can rewrite articles changing "he" to "she". I have done that with some Duality articles, when I want to share them, since both types are written as "he" I change the "she" one to "she" and "her". Its just a bit more work filtering out what is sexist, what is cultural - the core is still there.

My assumption is that you put your faith first therefore everything is seen through that lens. Maybe I am wrong and you consider yourself IEE first and Christian second. I don't want to misunderstand you.

Well, I hope I explained it above. The LSE example might help. I don't "first, second" it. Its just two parts of who I am. I have in-common with Christians, and in-common with IEEs. I think that's why that spiritual -styles article appealed to me, because there are so many different Catholic spiritualities (ways of practicing your spirtuality), and yes, they suit different kinds of people. Hmm, what would you be, Aylen? Maybe Benedictine - spiritual battles. If I have characterized that correctly. Yes, you need a Benedictine Cross, Aylen. Keeps you safe. Here: st-benedict-medal1.jpg
(I would be more than happy to send you a blessed one, if you want).

Interesting that Benedict created order for the monastic orders, still practiced/lived to the letter the world over these 15 centuries - and I see you, like me, tending to be more the "sail needing a rudder". Benedict had a sturdy rudder. And he sailed - so high.