Reinin Dichotomies: Obstinate vs. Yielding

[Joy]

COMPLIANCE – OBSTINACY
USTUPCHIVOST - UPRJAMSTVO

Compliant (Extroverts with logic and introverts with ethics):
Ustupchivye (ekstraverty - logiki i introverty - etiki):

1. For the compliant inside of their "personal space" (i.e. something that cannot be compromised), which is outlined with a "personal boundary", are personal resources (Time, funds) and interests are manipulated (Are "played" with). An interest is taken only if it can be supported by adequate/corresponding personal resources.
2. Compliants, while interacting with other people, freely express their interests
(They freely express their intimate opinions, voice their disagreements, consider counterarguments, share their interests with other people). They divide interests as "my interests" and "those of other people".
3. The compliant protects their personal resources to a point of conflict, but does not do the same thing with their interests. If a person starts asking/requesting their resources, as they perceive it, intruding into their "personal space", they react by a very sharp reaction which can seem a bit over the edge, aggressive (This reaction is connected with the property of "inviolability" of their resources)

Obstinate (Extrovert with ethics and introverts with logic):
Uprjamye (ekstraverty - etiki i introverty - logiki):

1. For the obstinate into their "personal ("inviolable") space", which is outlined with a "personal boundary", are placed interests and for them resources are manipulated. With the usage of their resources they make opportunities for interests.
2. The obstinate in interaction with other people freely operates with their resources (They can "share" and "change" them, refurnish them and use/spend them). They divide resources on their resources and other people's resources.
3. The obstinate guards itself from intrusions into their personal sphere of interests, and do not protect their resources. If a person tries to impose interests on them and thus intrude into their personal space their reaction will be sufficiently deterring/sharp (Such a reaction occurs if other peoples interests do not become the obstinate's interests)

Note

The keys for this group are the concepts of "personal space", "resources" (What we have available at our disposal) and "personal interests" (Unlike regular interests these are completely personal, actions that we find interesting and feel personal responsibility and attachment to). "Personal space" is something that an individual feels is an integral part of them, it cannot be renounced and will be defended/guarded from claims upon it and intrusions into it by others. For the compliant this space is occupied by their resources while for the obstinate by their interests. As a result of that complaints manipulate interests (Freely change them, adjust them in accordance with their resources) and obstinates resources (They adjust them to their interests).

Examples

Compliant:
"What you do, your affairs/actions, can either be determined by yourself or by other people who will "burden/chain" you with their wishes and requests" "Interests/hobbies in which I cannot participate anymore (Cannot do for one reason or another) eventually become uninteresting and I grow tired of them. I let go of old interests easily" "I limit my affairs, how many things I'm involved with, how many things I am suppose to do. For instance I may find something very interesting to do/get involved with, but I won't pursue the thing" "if I know that I can't do something, I won't and will forget all about it" "If I have an interest it is, naturally, reflected by capabilities. If something is impossible I won't go wasting my time and effort on it. I don't understand people who list all kinds of numerous interests... personally I clearly know what my capabilities are"

Obstinate:
"I never let go of my passions(Interests). But I also won't, because of them, neglect sleep, eating..." "I certainly won't abandon it.... I'm inclined to carry the situation to the end" "I can't let go of my passions for the fear of losing myself, my identity/personality" "My passions (Interests) go the limits of my physical capabilities. When my physical capabilities show me their limits- I will let go of my passions (Interests) but I will do this only as a very last resort... but even then I will not abandon them but I will only "postpone" them and await the moment when I can get back to them. I won't drop/abandon my passions (interests) just because my resources are inadequate..."

Compliant: ExTx, IxFx
Obstinant: ExFx, IxTx

[Nessy]

I'm usually an Obstinant.

[Joy]

I'm Compliant.

From the names in this dichotomy, I would have immediately assumed that I'm Obstinant.

[Phaedrus]

Clearly obstinate in my case.

[Gilly]

Obstinate.

[XoX]

Compliant apparently. Again I have had some interests where I have showed great Obstinacy but in the end I'm not someone who will continuously fight the windmills just for passion.

[oyburger]

Obstinate for me.

[FDG]

Compliant. I am extremely possessive of my personal space. Though it is unclear the distinciton between interest and resource. Interests require resources, for example.

[Creepy-Diana]

.

[JuJu]

Obstinate.

[implied]

something between the two, but more compliant than obstinate.

[Rocky]

Obstinate.

Gilligan, you seem to be flip-floping a lot on what you originally said in the "Sorry smilingeyes" thread. Any reason?

[aestrivex]

heres the only one im sure about so far.

obstinate, clearly.

[Expat]

Compliant.

This is me:

2. Compliants, while interacting with other people, freely express their interests
(They freely express their intimate opinions, voice their disagreements, consider counterarguments, share their interests with other people). They divide interests as "my interests" and "those of other people".
3. The compliant protects their personal resources to a point of conflict, but does not do the same thing with their interests. If a person starts asking/requesting their resources, as they perceive it, intruding into their "personal space", they react by a very sharp reaction which can seem a bit over the edge, aggressive (This reaction is connected with the property of "inviolability" of their resources)

[chrys]

Yielding <---------------------- (<-- EII-Fi/ILE-Ti to EII-Ne/ILE-Ne to/from IEE-Ne/LII-Ne to IEE-Fi/LII-Ti --->) -------------------> Obstinate
RATIONAL TYPES (+subtypes) ARE THE MOST YIELDING/OBSTINATE, IRRATIONAL TYPES(+SUBTYPES) ARE AMBIGUOUS, ESPECIALLY IF "AMBIVERTEED"


Considering I am really ambiguous about my rational functions (EII vs LII), it is safe to assume that I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THIS FUCKING DICHOTOMY MEANS IN MY LIFE PLEASE HELP


I am very wary of my own resources simply because I don't have enough and feel that it's not fair that others should be able to take what I don't have, and I didn't know people actually could give up interests in favor of other people's interests? Um... what am I missing here? I'm not going to give up learning socionics so I can go socialize and play baseball with stupid sports people, my interests are clear and they're mine, and I know that other's interests are inferior.

[Pallas]

Yielding/obstinate is really hard to explain. I'll come up with a question that makes it clear, if indirectly, though. It's about focus on means vs. ends somehow though, not money or hobbies or whatever. I'm also not sure if the concept of "more yielding/obstinate" is relevant, just like asking whether a lark or an owl is more of a bird is not relevant. It's about prototypicality, not degrees of membership.

[chrys]

Yielding/obstinate is really hard to explain. I'll come up with a question that makes it clear, if indirectly, though. It's about focus on means vs. ends somehow though, not money or hobbies or whatever. I'm also not sure if the concept of "more yielding/obstinate" is relevant, just like asking whether a lark or an owl is more of a bird is not relevant. It's about prototypicality, not degrees of membership.

well they way they put it it makes it seem like yielding/obstinate are reactions to that which affects their sphere of ownership, and people aren't programmede to only perform one reaction in the same degree of intensity, someone who is Yielding might eventually feel the need to stand by their interests when they are threatened enough. But yeah I really don't understand this.

[The Reality Denialist]

This is a very interesting one. Some people see me as way too compliant. Oh well, I survive. Not the end of the world. My time... plenty of time for it later on.
However, I'm not inclined to give something when it is asked. I shut down more than become very visibly against of it. Personal favors might be the word in other words not playing favorites.

[FreelancePoliceman]

I've noticed this particularly in the Alpha quadra. ILEs I've known are hyper-concerned about their things and even in relationships don't like their partners touching their stuff. SEIs don't seem quite so easily agitated as ILEs in respect to physical objects but they do maintain very clear boundaries between the world and their living space, and get angered at any intrusion. SEIs and ILEs' attitude toward money also seems counterintuitive; they're both stingy and hate parting with it, but seem to manage to do it often; I'm not sure how. ESEs are much more chill and informal about welcoming people inside their homes; their only real concern to the extent that they have concern is that the experience is pleasant for the visitor. They're also better with money than SEIs, but also less concerned about parting from it and will instantly pay hundreds of dollars if a friend is in need without a thought. I think LIIs' attitude toward money is similar to ESEs'. LIIs also don't really care too much about their physical possessions compared to ILEs, but are better at figuring out what they need/don't need; ILEs and SEIs seem to have hoarding tendencies and don't like to part with their possessions any more than their money.

[Poptart]

I've noticed this particularly in the Alpha quadra. ILEs I've known are hyper-concerned about their things and even in relationships don't like their partners touching their stuff. SEIs don't seem quite so easily agitated as ILEs in respect to physical objects but they do maintain very clear boundaries between the world and their living space, and get angered at any intrusion. SEIs and ILEs' attitude toward money also seems counterintuitive; they're both stingy and hate parting with it, but seem to manage to do it often; I'm not sure how. ESEs are much more chill and informal about welcoming people inside their homes; their only real concern to the extent that they have concern is that the experience is pleasant for the visitor. They're also better with money than SEIs, but also less concerned about parting from it and will instantly pay hundreds of dollars if a friend is in need without a thought. I think LIIs' attitude toward money is similar to ESEs'. LIIs also don't really care too much about their physical possessions compared to ILEs, but are better at figuring out what they need/don't need; ILEs and SEIs seem to have hoarding tendencies and don't like to part with their possessions any more than their money.

Hmm I’ve never noticed this. I easily part with my things. In fact I just brought a bag of clothes to goodwill last weekend. I Marie Kondo my shit on a regular basis and try to keep the amount of stuff I own to a minimum.

[FreelancePoliceman]

Hmm I’ve never noticed this. I easily part with my things. In fact I just brought a bag of clothes to goodwill last weekend. I Marie Kondo my shit on a regular basis and try to keep the amount of stuff I own to a minimum.

Like I said, I don't think SEIs care so much about physical things as a sense of private space.

[Poptart]

Like I said, I don't think SEIs care so much about physical things as a sense of private space.

Sorry, I think I was just confused by your last sentence where you said "ILEs and SEIs seem to have hoarding tendencies and don't like to part with their possessions any more than their money".

[FreelancePoliceman]

Sorry, I think I was just confused by your last sentence where you said "ILEs and SEIs seem to have hoarding tendencies and don't like to part with their possessions any more than their money".

Ah yeah I did say that. Yeah, OK, I don’t know what to think. I’ve had a long day. :/

[welcometomania]