Quote Originally Posted by Singu View Post
The argument, which is an argument that even you yourself put forth, is that there already are these "transactions" going on anyway, and the point is to not hide them with "nice language", but to reveal them.

My argument is a refutation to that, saying that people can work from different values than "transactions" or "cost-and-benefits". For example, if there's a child or the elderly on the street that need help, do you say "Well gee, I hope this kid or the elderly pays me back one day..." or "Well I hope someone was looking to see what a nice person I was... or else this whole thing was a waste". Well maybe psychopaths do see it that way.

Or, are you just going to help them, only because you saw that they needed help, and that was good enough reason to do so?

So even if it directly or indirectly benefit the person, they're not exactly expecting anything from the other person. The psychopath may not believe this, but just because he can't experience it or understand it, doesn't mean that it's a lie.
Yes there are transactions. Usually it's called the relational "give and take". I'm sure you heard of that. Funnily enough, I don't even like the "give and take" wording bc my fairness ideals (see below) are just... different from that. But yeah pragmatically, yeah they are "give and take". Like I said resentment will grow in the heart and whatnot if the "give and take" gets too unbalanced. Emotional well-being of all parties is important. So an unbalanced "give and take" means bad for someone's emotional well-being (of the well-being of one or more people).

You weren't refuting what I was saying. You misinterpreted my words. I pointed this out already but I'll try once more: I personally don't care about transactions on a conscious level. I do agree they play a role if I am intellectually honest, and also I see it clearly when it comes to analysing emotional well-being of people; but consciously I care more about fairness ideals. Those do include expectations ofc. As do your ideals of growth and transformation.

For the child/old person in the street, the cost analysis is: you give them something that costs you little yet will be giving -relatively- a lot to them. You definitely do this analysis subconsciously at least. Your beloved science talks about this.



Well yes, End has literally said that (I also remember Bertrand saying that relationships are about cost-and-benefits). Adam frequently says that he "has no feelings", although I'm not sure how he views relationships exactly.

Anyway, this has more to do with what End was saying (read his post) than Adam.
This post? "Also, unlike what you seem to think, the "transaction" is not sterile or robotic in our minds. If I offer you my "heart", for example, it is both a calculated risk and an earnestly hopeful plea that you'll accept. I give you all of me, in exchange for all of you. It's only fair yet there is a subtle component to that transaction. Trust. In making that offer, I've implicitly admitted that I trust you completely in all things. Do you return/are you worthy of that trust? The trust of a very, very paranoid person whom you've somehow convinced to do the dumbest thing they can possibly imagine in the hopes that they really were/are wrong about you?"

Or this post of his:

"After all, you already like her a lot. And believe you me, us introverts think very, very long and hard in regards to this question. We are well and fully aware of the limits of time and how every moment actually counts. In regards to the potential father/mother of our children, well, let's just say that we're very keen on ensuring the offspring experience the happiest of family environments provided we're not dramatically psychologically damaged.

This could be an entirely gamma thing, but that's just how I view things. The girl I'm crushing on may well become my wife. I had best be damn sure she is fit for that role. Beauty fades, but personality is forever. The instant I think she'd be a bad mother? Instant drop. If I was a girl... The instant I think he'd be a bad father? Dropped. I like to keep it simple and direct."

If the bolded, esp the underlined are just about cost and benefit to you, then simple: go fuck yourself. I will not discuss anything about this with your extremely biased view any further.