I don't get dual relationships (duality)

[DELL]

As a Gamma NT, duality does appeal to me, and relationships generally become more and more difficult with people who share fewer and fewer of my valued functions. However, this isn't just property of Gamma NT's; it happens to everyone.

For example, my father, ex-wife, and son are all Delta SLI's, so I've been observing SLI's closely for my entire life, and one thing I've noticed is that, for all their "coolness under fire" and their generally excellent taste in clothes and in arranging a comfortable life for themselves, they live in abject fear. Fear that their incredibly planned out lives, which they so carefully guard and nurture, will eventually bore them to death. Enter the absolutely crazed, random IEE who suggests going out for ice cream or an Alaskan cruise or dressing the cat up in formal clothes. SLI's need IEE's Ne, and IEE's need someone to prevent them from spending the rent money on squirrel food "Because the poor little dears look so cold out there."

As for the ESI-LIE duality being "ideal", please read the article here: https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...ng-an-ISFj-ESI

I'm in no way disputing the *benefits/ease* of duality, strictly the *appeal* and as you know, types have different criteria when making decisions, hence It doesnt surprise me that duality wont appeal to those that are not thinking in terms of how they can most give/receive beneifit (broad sense).
You have to know that not everyone is making decisions as rationally as you are...

Also the money thing sounds more TE polr than TI, No?

[DELL]

Just to add to my reply to Adam... When persuing my ex girlfriend, I was in no way whatsoever considering what I can do for her, or what she can do for me...
Aside from physical attraction, my criteria was strictly about how our personalities and values meshed, and how much we enjoyed each others company...

Socionics is now very usefully for me to make some more estimations in the relationship area,than I could before, but I'm not going to change my decision making process when persuing /entering relations

[Myst]

As a Gamma NT, duality does appeal to me, and relationships generally become more and more difficult with people who share fewer and fewer of my valued functions. However, this isn't just property of Gamma NT's; it happens to everyone.

For example, my father, ex-wife, and son are all Delta SLI's, so I've been observing SLI's closely for my entire life, and one thing I've noticed is that, for all their "coolness under fire" and their generally excellent taste in clothes and in arranging a comfortable life for themselves, they live in abject fear. Fear that their incredibly planned out lives, which they so carefully guard and nurture, will eventually bore them to death. Enter the absolutely crazed, random IEE who suggests going out for ice cream or an Alaskan cruise or dressing the cat up in formal clothes. SLI's need IEE's Ne, and IEE's need someone to prevent them from spending the rent money on squirrel food "Because the poor little dears look so cold out there."

I don't get how SLI is supposed to follow an incredibly planned out life lol. I mean the SLI descriptions say the opposite. The thing you might be thinking of is that they supposedly like to try and create very detailed plans with useless detail. But they do not actually try to follow through those plans.

Is this what you meant?

Bc otherwise SLIs supposedly always try to avoid boredom anyway so it didn't make much sense for that part of your post

But then the whole system can't cover people who fit maybe 1 pattern of SLI (or whatever other type) and then don't fit the second pattern and so on. So it's just patterns that don't fit in 16 types let alone into the model created for these types.

So it's like, if your SLI was more comfortable with bureaucracy and paper pushing like the tax system and couldn't do mechanic things like you described your SLI ex wife before, and your LSI was instead some very independent and aloof farmer, who was fine with mechanic things, then both these go against the actual stereotypes of SLI and LSI and are like switched around. Meanwhile the SLI ex wife could totally fit the other patterns you picked up from SLI descriptions, and your farmer LSI ex gf could totally fit some LSI patterns.

So overall it's pretty meaningless beyond a point.

Make sense?

[Hope]

As a Gamma NT, duality does appeal to me, and relationships generally become more and more difficult with people who share fewer and fewer of my valued functions. However, this isn't just property of Gamma NT's; it happens to everyone.

For example, my father, ex-wife, and son are all Delta SLI's, so I've been observing SLI's closely for my entire life, and one thing I've noticed is that, for all their "coolness under fire" and their generally excellent taste in clothes and in arranging a comfortable life for themselves, they live in abject fear. Fear that their incredibly planned out lives, which they so carefully guard and nurture, will eventually bore them to death. Enter the absolutely crazed, random IEE who suggests going out for ice cream or an Alaskan cruise or dressing the cat up in formal clothes. SLI's need IEE's Ne, and IEE's need someone to prevent them from spending the rent money on squirrel food "Because the poor little dears look so cold out there."

As for the ESI-LIE duality being "ideal", please read the article here: https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...ng-an-ISFj-ESI

I've never had an overly planned life and its also not part of my interest/dreams/effort etc. Neither any of the SLI's I've met. Overly planned life is not very p.
On the contrary, my LSI brother plans even his daily meals for example.

[Aeris]

Duality sounds like it would be most appealing to Gamma NT:
Maximum benefit, minimum long term risk...
It doesn't/ wouldn't surprise me that the idea of duality becomes less appealing, as you move away from these functions..

I guess it would depend if [gamma NT] considers [couple] as a benefit.

[Adam Strange]

I guess it would depend if [gamma NT] considers [couple] as a benefit.

Since I value peace, harmony, mutual support and interesting days, I generally do consider duality to be beneficial. Today I was working with a male ESI in another company and we get along great, better than I could hope for, in fact, since we have a common goal and complementary skills.

However, not all duals are great for you. I know a female ESI who works in a University and is incredibly hard to get along with. Even her duals don't like her.

[Aeris]

Since I value peace, harmony, mutual support and interesting days, I generally do consider duality to be beneficial. Today I was working with a male ESI in another company and we get along great, better than I could hope for, in fact, since we have a common goal and complementary skills.

However, not all duals are great for you. I know a female ESI who works in a University and is incredibly hard to get along with. Even her duals don't like her.

Most peeps value those, at least in words.
Enjoy the duals you've got around I guess...

[End]

Since I value peace, harmony, mutual support and interesting days, I generally do consider duality to be beneficial. Today I was working with a male ESI in another company and we get along great, better than I could hope for, in fact, since we have a common goal and complementary skills.

However, not all duals are great for you. I know a female ESI who works in a University and is incredibly hard to get along with. Even her duals don't like her.

That fact is why I maintain that a given type has to not be traumatized in some significant way in order for these theories to work out like they're supposed to. Her duals don't like her because, ESI she may be, she's broken to a point they honestly don't think they can fix without risking something they'd rather not (e.g. their very lives perhaps). Her full story is likely tragic and one could probably understand how she became the way she is now if they somehow knew it, but pity is a poor foundation for a relationship (especially a romantic one) and if the girl is setting off the self-preservation alarms than yeah, might be drawn to it, but gonna have to pass on that one. Better to live to love another day, than to love today and be dead tomorrow...

[DELL]

I guess it would depend if [gamma NT] considers [couple] as a benefit.

Theoritically they should *generally* base any decision more using their prefered *rational* criteria than other types, but nothing says that individuals can't learn and grow, and develop their other preferences...

I'm strictly speaking in general terms, and comparing to other types, that have a different decision making process

[Lord Pixel]

Yea I don't think duals will automatically hook up just because they are duals. Like other sources say, socio economic background , culture, worldviews, all that good stuff, I think if those are in place than duality will most likely lead to a permanent relationship, but like if a man from Nigeria meets a woman from Pakistan and they are duals, their worlds are just too different to get over the hump and into a dual relationship.

[QueenTiger666]

SEEs are stereotypically the adventurous, party loving extroverts.

Pretty sure that's ESEs but ok.

You rely too much on stereotypes. You're also unrealistic.

[flames]

Pretty sure that's ESEs but ok.

You rely too much on stereotypes. You're also unrealistic.

I think extraversion in general kinda leads to adventurousness and enjoying social things lol so many extro types can be that not just SEE or ESE

but ESFx probably fits the stereotype the most just cuz of all the Se and Fe

“i wanna DO things and i want to make an emotional impact/get attention”

[QueenTiger666]

I think extraversion in general kinda leads to adventurousness and enjoying social things lol so many extro types can be that not just SEE or ESE

but ESFx probably fits the stereotype the most just cuz of all the Se and Fe

“i wanna DO things and i want to make an emotional impact/get attention”

Yeah makes sense, was just thinking along the lines of quadras and it would make more sense that a pure party animal just in it for the lolz would make more sense for an Alpha (merry) over Gamma (serious). Just curious in regards to you, do you get bored easily? Cause I do, and when I get bored I like to stir the pot, cause drama/trouble etc. You relate to that?

[flames]

Yeah makes sense, was just thinking along the lines of quadras and it would make more sense that a pure party animal just in it for the lolz would make more sense for an Alpha (merry) over Gamma (serious). Just curious in regards to you, do you get bored easily? Cause I do, and when I get bored I like to stir the pot, cause drama/trouble etc. You relate to that?

Girl, that is me 24/7

[QueenTiger666]

Girl, that is me 24/7

Yeah that would be fitting of SEEs. The key difference between SEEs and say, ESEs is that one has Fe+ and one has Fe-. Fe+ (ESE) would be more focused on everyone getting along and a positive atmosphere whereas Fe- (SEE in this case) is more focused on drama.

[flames]

actually now that I’ve run away from home and am living with friends there’s not really any of that drama but I’m actually currently planning some drama with two of those friends because they did something shitty to me

[QueenTiger666]

actually now that I’ve run away from home and am living with friends there’s not really any of that drama but I’m actually currently planning some drama with two of those friends because they did something shitty to me

Iconic, we're probs the same type so SEE makes sense lol.

[Kernel]

I think I understand what Adam said. From being friends with some SLIs, I noticed they don't take risks. They play it too safe. I think it is because they can't see what lays after and are afraid of the unknown (this unknown can bring losses) maybe to the point they miss out many things and become bored with life.

They are too careful and calculate everything they do... It amazes me... Because I am usually spontaneous and don't think as much as they do. My head will burn if I calculate everything like that. But for them it is a natural tendency.

An example is my friend. She knows how to live a good, peaceful life. If I compare my life and hers until now, mine had many ups and downs and I am okay with it and I gained experience from it while her life had been stable because she focuses a lot on preventing downs of life from happening but at the same time she kind of missed experiences that could have helped her become wiser.

[Myst]

I think I understand what Adam said. From being friends with some SLIs, I noticed they don't take risks. They play it too safe. I think it is because they can't see what lays after and are afraid of the unknown (this unknown can bring losses) maybe to the point they miss out many things and become bored with life.

They are too careful and calculate everything they do... It amazes me... Because I am usually spontaneous and don't think as much as they do. My head will burn if I calculate everything like that. But for them it is a natural tendency.

An example is my friend. She knows how to live a good, peaceful life. If I compare my life and hers until now, mine had many ups and downs and I am okay with it and I gained experience from it while her life had been stable because she focuses a lot on preventing downs of life from happening but at the same time she kind of missed experiences that could have helped her become wiser.

YA I heard before that enfps see the istp as not all that optimistic even when istps think of themselves as optimistic ...

But anyway not taking risks isn't the same as following carefully planned out plans

Also there are many types of risks, so as for your friends, they may take some risks you don't, while you only notice that they didn't take the type of risks that you will take

[Hope]

Rationals

Tend to plan ahead, make decisions early
Are more often rigid and stubborn
Do not like to change their decisions
Tend to finish what they started.
Usually have stiff movements.
Usually more 'authoritarian' leadership style.
Low stress tolerance.

Irrationals

Tend to wait and see, more spontaneous
Are more often flexible and tolerant.
Change their decisions frequently.
Tend to start new things without finishing them.
Usually have gentle movements.
Usually more 'democratic' leadership style.
High stress tolerance.

Rational (Judging) Types: LII (INTj) ESE (ESFj) LSI (ISTj) EIE (ENFj) ESI (ISFj) LIE (ENTj) EII (INFj) LSE (ESTj)

Irrational (Perceiving) Types: ILE (ENTp) SEI (ISFp) SLE (ESTp) IEI (INFp) SEE (ESFp) ILI (INTp) IEE (ENFp) SLI (ISTp)

[Lord Pixel]

Rationals

Tend to plan ahead, make decisions early
Are more often rigid and stubborn
Do not like to change their decisions
Tend to finish what they started.
Usually have stiff movements.
Usually more 'authoritarian' leadership style.
Low stress tolerance.

Irrationals

Tend to wait and see, more spontaneous
Are more often flexible and tolerant.
Change their decisions frequently.
Tend to start new things without finishing them.
Usually have gentle movements.
Usually more 'democratic' leadership style.
High stress tolerance.

Rational (Judging) Types: LII (INTj) ESE (ESFj) LSI (ISTj) EIE (ENFj) ESI (ISFj) LIE (ENTj) EII (INFj) LSE (ESTj)

Irrational (Perceiving) Types: ILE (ENTp) SEI (ISFp) SLE (ESTp) IEI (INFp) SEE (ESFp) ILI (INTp) IEE (ENFp) SLI (ISTp)

I don't agree with this entirely.

Rationals making faster descions I agree, Irrationals waiting and see I agree.

But higher Ne will predict more spontaneity/flexibilty/ and starting new things without finishing.

Higher Si will not be as spontaneous, flexible, or constantly starting new things as higher Ne.

The stiffness no, the stiffness is more of a T thing in general, and not all T users but really extremely stiff people most likely have high T and low S, ILI for example tends to be stiff in movements, and they are irrational. LII as well, tend to have stiff movement.

Leadership style probably has to do with F and T, Higher F more democratic higher T more authoritarian, now I don't think it's a hard fast rule but to say that ESTp leadership style is more democratic than EII leadership style is to have never seen either of them lead.

[Myst]

The stiffness no, the stiffness is more of a T thing in general, and not all T users but really extremely stiff people most likely have high T and low S, ILI for example tends to be stiff in movements, and they are irrational. LII as well, tend to have stiff movement.

I'm told I'm really really stiff. I wouldn't link it to S/N dichotomies

[Myst]

General comment. So yeah again all that bullshit about reinin, gulenko etc. speculations and apophenia.

But analysing the gulenko quote. Its funny with movement I'm in between. I'm told I'm stiff but I also know I can be soft and smooth careful with delicate stuff BUT I don't pay conscious attention to that and don't like to. What I like to pay conscious attention to is the sharp stuff and kinda heavy too at the same time

So gulenko would type me LSI and SLE at the same time and that's just about right lol.

Like I said, apophenia.

[The Reality Denialist]

I tend to be quite smoothly sudden and clumsy, I think.