chips and underwear's type

[The Exception]

Since I've read up on Si subtype. It is all making sense. Te polr =/ inability to use Te. I feel an incredible amount of internal tension when pressed with Te. It's a source of much of my stress. Te users really, honesty are too gung-ho about the most efficient way to do things that it drives me crazy! I'm willing to do things efficiently, but not for the sake of efficiency, but because I may let other people down if I'm not as efficient as they expect me to be.

I really prefer a more leisurely way of life and feel that people are too much in a hurry and that they need to slow down and enjoy life more.

***edit*** I get really expressive around people I know well. I used to be much more expressive, but I was raised in a working class household and working class men aren't suppose to emote, you know what I mean?

I still haven't totally ruled out SEI as a possibility for myself. I think LII/EII is most likely but I have had my share of issues with strong Te people. I resent being told to do things a better or more efficient way. The way I'm currently doing it is comfortable for me and it works. I care about efficiency to some extent but I far prefer a more leisurely approach.

[Skepsis]

I still haven't totally ruled out SEI as a possibility for myself. I think LII/EII is most likely but I have had my share of issues with strong Te people. I resent being told to do things a better or more efficient way. The way I'm currently doing it is comfortable for me and it works. I care about efficiency to some extent but I far prefer a more leisurely approach.

I think it could make sense for you. I think an SEI with good logic abilities and a higher education could see themselves as LII. LIIs are quick to point how these SEIs are not LIIs. Same with EII. Si subtype would have strong emotions that they don't display often, kind of like an EII. It's just that the ethics of SEI is more flexible. So, I could see SEI-Si identifying with LII and EII. I have often felt like an outsider trying to get into both the LII and EII club, among a few others. They'll take my money, but still won't give me a bracelet, lol.

It's not that you are or aren't LII. That isn't for me to decide. It's that I could see where you're coming from.

[The Exception]

I think it could make sense for you. I think an SEI with good logic abilities and a higher education could see themselves as LII. LIIs are quick to point how these SEIs are not LIIs. Same with EII. Si subtype would have strong emotions that they don't display often, kind of like an EII. It's just that the ethics of SEI is more flexible. So, I could see SEI-Si identifying with LII and EII. I have often felt like an outsider trying to get into both the LII and EII club, among a few others. They'll take my money, but still won't give me a bracelet, lol.

It's not that you are or aren't LII. That isn't for me to decide. It's that I could see where you're coming from.

I just feel like I'm not as 'hardcore' logical as the LIIs are. Other LIIs poorly tolerate errors in someone's reasoning, are quick to point out any logical fallacy and for the most part I don't really care. I love learning, I love it when things make logical sense. I love the process of just thinking and putting things in logical categories. Yet I'm not overly categorical because I know very well that not everything can neatly fit although I would prefer it too. I would prefer things be logically consistent but sometimes it's not always possible and anyone can make some logical error. We don't need it shoved down our throats everytime we're wrong about something.

Sometimes what some of the LIIs write is hard to comprehend and digest. It would be better with more specific examples. The thinking is so obvious to them that they don't stop to think that it might not be at all obvious to someone else. But to be fair, I've been guilty of that too. Moreso in the past. I resent it when people say "it's obvious." It's an insult of someone's intelligence. What's obvious to you is not necessary obvious to someone else even if you think it should be. We all come in with different strengths as well as different life experience. In particular, those with strong Ti subtypes I tend to have more issue with.

I also see to be more ethically oriented than most LIIs I've observed. Feelings in general seem more important to me. I sometimes find myself standing up for what I think is ethically correct. If I witness someone making a remark towards someone that's rather harsh and hurtful, it's difficult for me to remain silent about it. I feel like I must do something to stop the 'perpetrator.' It's like I feel that person's feelings if they were my own. I know it would hurt me if things like that were said to me so I assume the same for the other person. But that person isn't always hurt or offended even if I feel s/he should be. I guess sometimes I need to have a thicker skin.

Yet, I still feel like I resonate alot with the LII descriptions overall and I'm not quite ready to change over my sig quite yet. Well I'm probably Harmonizing subtype so that might have to do with the above somewhat. People getting along and being comfortable sense of well being is more important than being logically correct all the time. Or maybe I am mistyped. If I'm SEI, I'm probably Si subtype and Harmonizing too.

[Skepsis]

I just feel like I'm not as 'hardcore' logical as the LIIs are. Other LIIs poorly tolerate errors in someone's reasoning, are quick to point out any logical fallacy and for the most part I don't really care. I love learning, I love it when things make logical sense. I love the process of just thinking and putting things in logical categories. Yet I'm not overly categorical because I know very well that not everything can neatly fit although I would prefer it too. I would prefer things be logically consistent but sometimes it's not always possible and anyone can make some logical error. We don't need it shoved down our throats everytime we're wrong about something.

Sometimes what some of the LIIs write is hard to comprehend and digest. It would be better with more specific examples. The thinking is so obvious to them that they don't stop to think that it might not be at all obvious to someone else. But to be fair, I've been guilty of that too. Moreso in the past. I resent it when people say "it's obvious." It's an insult of someone's intelligence. What's obvious to you is not necessary obvious to someone else even if you think it should be. We all come in with different strengths as well as different life experience. In particular, those with strong Ti subtypes I tend to have more issue with.

I also see to be more ethically oriented than most LIIs I've observed. Feelings in general seem more important to me. I sometimes find myself standing up for what I think is ethically correct. If I witness someone making a remark towards someone that's rather harsh and hurtful, it's difficult for me to remain silent about it. I feel like I must do something to stop the 'perpetrator.' It's like I feel that person's feelings if they were my own. I know it would hurt me if things like that were said to me so I assume the same for the other person. But that person isn't always hurt or offended even if I feel s/he should be. I guess sometimes I need to have a thicker skin.

Yet, I still feel like I resonate alot with the LII descriptions overall and I'm not quite ready to change over my sig quite yet. Well I'm probably Harmonizing subtype so that might have to do with the above somewhat. People getting along and being comfortable sense of well being is more important than being logically correct all the time. Or maybe I am mistyped. If I'm SEI, I'm probably Si subtype and Harmonizing too.

Yup, prob. just harmonizing LII-Ne. I think the focus on logical correctness is more of an online phenomenon, where many just want to conform to the stereotype because if you aren't as stereotypical as possible people will doubt your type and call you an F of some sort. They are just puffing their brain out. I bet many are much more accommodating in real life. Of course, the other stereotype is to say the fuck with any and all stereotypes and act how ever you feel, which is more courageous.

[The Exception]

Yup, prob. just harmonizing LII-Ne. I think the focus on logical correctness is more of an online phenomenon, where many just want to conform to the stereotype because if you aren't as stereotypical as possible people will doubt your type and call you an F of some sort. They are just puffing their brain out. I bet many are much more accommodating in real life. Of course, the other stereotype is to say the fuck with any and all stereotypes and act how ever you feel, which is more courageous.

Here’s something that has been on my mind lately. When someone posts something I find rude or harsh, I feel offended by it and I feel like I have to call out that person on it, to tell them it’s rude or inconsiderate. This has happened several times on online forums when someone says something that kind of pisses me off, that I think is a hurtful comment. Furthermore, I get bothered when it seems like no one is taking my side on it. When no one comes to say I’ve raised a good point or ‘likes’ the post I made. Then I wonder if it’s even valid to be thinking such a thing when no one seems to agree. Also, when the person who makes the comment doesn’t even apologize. At least say, ‘yeah, you’re right. I went a little too far in that comment. I’ll try to be more careful next time.’ Usually it's things like 'your type descriptions are terrible' or 'how can you be so ignorant to not know your type after studying the system for 2 years?"

It’s true I’m hypersensitive to criticism and harsh comments, even if they’re not directed at me personally, I can feel them as if they were. I imagine how I’d feel if the comment was directed at me. Most people probably aren’t as sensitive themselves so as a result maybe they don’t see things as being offensive where I would see it as such? Anyway, this is the one thing I hate the most about myself, that I would change in a heartbeat if I could. To be thicker skinned. To let criticisms and slights just roll right off my shoulder. To not care so much what other people think? I mean what practical benefits do I get from being the way I am? I suppose it makes me a kinder and more considerate person, but that benefits other people. It’s not benefitting myself. It’s not making me a happier person.

So based on this, can I still even be an LII? Because this sounds rather un-LII-like. Most LIIs I know, do not get worked up over such comments like these. Most LIIs are less emotional and thicker-skinned. Most LIIs don’t seem to care enough about ethics to get involved in debating about such things. This sounds more ethical. Whether it’s more Fi or Fe, I’m not sure. I think it could be both. Fi if it’s emphasizing the ethics and morals more. Fe if it’s more about mood and atmosphere. I am considering both EII and SEI as possibilities. I think the former is more likely because I do think I have strong Ne and weaker Si but I’m open to SEI or any other type.

[glam]

Here’s something that has been on my mind lately. When someone posts something I find rude or harsh, I feel offended by it and I feel like I have to call out that person on it, to tell them it’s rude or inconsiderate. This has happened several times on online forums when someone says something that kind of pisses me off, that I think is a hurtful comment. Furthermore, I get bothered when it seems like no one is taking my side on it. When no one comes to say I’ve raised a good point or ‘likes’ the post I made. Then I wonder if it’s even valid to be thinking such a thing when no one seems to agree. Also, when the person who makes the comment doesn’t even apologize. At least say, ‘yeah, you’re right. I went a little too far in that comment. I’ll try to be more careful next time.’ Usually it's things like 'your type descriptions are terrible' or 'how can you be so ignorant to not know your type after studying the system for 2 years?"

It’s true I’m hypersensitive to criticism and harsh comments, even if they’re not directed at me personally, I can feel them as if they were. I imagine how I’d feel if the comment was directed at me. Most people probably aren’t as sensitive themselves so as a result maybe they don’t see things as being offensive where I would see it as such? Anyway, this is the one thing I hate the most about myself, that I would change in a heartbeat if I could. To be thicker skinned. To let criticisms and slights just roll right off my shoulder. To not care so much what other people think? I mean what practical benefits do I get from being the way I am? I suppose it makes me a kinder and more considerate person, but that benefits other people. It’s not benefitting myself. It’s not making me a happier person.

So based on this, can I still even be an LII? Because this sounds rather un-LII-like. Most LIIs I know, do not get worked up over such comments like these. Most LIIs are less emotional and thicker-skinned. Most LIIs don’t seem to care enough about ethics to get involved in debating about such things. This sounds more ethical. Whether it’s more Fi or Fe, I’m not sure. I think it could be both. Fi if it’s emphasizing the ethics and morals more. Fe if it’s more about mood and atmosphere. I am considering both EII and SEI as possibilities. I think the former is more likely because I do think I have strong Ne and weaker Si but I’m open to SEI or any other type.

chips, this really does sound EII to me, and not LII. i think i've mentioned thinking EII for you in the past too. i've had a hard time seeing you as LII, because i never see hard Ti analysis in your posts. your communication and verbalization is usually more Fi-oriented, you seem confident in making Fi evaluations and acting upon them (as you describe in the 1st paragraph in the quoted post), and you always talk about "relating" or "not relating" to things. also, i see you often asking for feedback, seeming unsure about your ideas and conclusions (weak Te). i think LIIs tend to be much more sure on their opinions about such things - they don't need anyone to "confirm" their ideas (not that they won't talk about them with others). and you're right that LIIs don't typically display the kind of sensitivity you mention. there's a reason why IxTx communication style is called "Cold-blooded"

it also sounds like you'd be an Oldham Sensitive type, which i would guess tends to correlate more to the Sincere (IxFx) communication style.

[spritelite]

Here’s something that has been on my mind lately. When someone posts something I find rude or harsh, I feel offended by it and I feel like I have to call out that person on it, to tell them it’s rude or inconsiderate. This has happened several times on online forums when someone says something that kind of pisses me off, that I think is a hurtful comment. Furthermore, I get bothered when it seems like no one is taking my side on it. When no one comes to say I’ve raised a good point or ‘likes’ the post I made. Then I wonder if it’s even valid to be thinking such a thing when no one seems to agree. Also, when the person who makes the comment doesn’t even apologize. At least say, ‘yeah, you’re right. I went a little too far in that comment. I’ll try to be more careful next time.’ Usually it's things like 'your type descriptions are terrible' or 'how can you be so ignorant to not know your type after studying the system for 2 years?"

It’s true I’m hypersensitive to criticism and harsh comments, even if they’re not directed at me personally, I can feel them as if they were. I imagine how I’d feel if the comment was directed at me. Most people probably aren’t as sensitive themselves so as a result maybe they don’t see things as being offensive where I would see it as such? Anyway, this is the one thing I hate the most about myself, that I would change in a heartbeat if I could. To be thicker skinned. To let criticisms and slights just roll right off my shoulder. To not care so much what other people think? I mean what practical benefits do I get from being the way I am? I suppose it makes me a kinder and more considerate person, but that benefits other people. It’s not benefitting myself. It’s not making me a happier person.

So based on this, can I still even be an LII? Because this sounds rather un-LII-like. Most LIIs I know, do not get worked up over such comments like these. Most LIIs are less emotional and thicker-skinned. Most LIIs don’t seem to care enough about ethics to get involved in debating about such things. This sounds more ethical. Whether it’s more Fi or Fe, I’m not sure. I think it could be both. Fi if it’s emphasizing the ethics and morals more. Fe if it’s more about mood and atmosphere. I am considering both EII and SEI as possibilities. I think the former is more likely because I do think I have strong Ne and weaker Si but I’m open to SEI or any other type.

I agree with you on the bad manners. Some people do not realise, others do not care about it. Typically there is some Se posturing involved with these types of comments and behaviours you observe, more so done by the Se seeking types rather than those with the Se in their ego, but if it occurs in the Si types, it usually for different reasons.

I still think you can be LII and not appreciate it, based on this reasoning, but I will make a point of reading your posts when I come across them in threads, and see what I think about your type.

[Myst]

Here’s something that has been on my mind lately. When someone posts something I find rude or harsh, I feel offended by it and I feel like I have to call out that person on it, to tell them it’s rude or inconsiderate. This has happened several times on online forums when someone says something that kind of pisses me off, that I think is a hurtful comment. Furthermore, I get bothered when it seems like no one is taking my side on it. When no one comes to say I’ve raised a good point or ‘likes’ the post I made. Then I wonder if it’s even valid to be thinking such a thing when no one seems to agree. Also, when the person who makes the comment doesn’t even apologize. At least say, ‘yeah, you’re right. I went a little too far in that comment. I’ll try to be more careful next time.’ Usually it's things like 'your type descriptions are terrible' or 'how can you be so ignorant to not know your type after studying the system for 2 years?"

It’s true I’m hypersensitive to criticism and harsh comments, even if they’re not directed at me personally, I can feel them as if they were. I imagine how I’d feel if the comment was directed at me. Most people probably aren’t as sensitive themselves so as a result maybe they don’t see things as being offensive where I would see it as such? Anyway, this is the one thing I hate the most about myself, that I would change in a heartbeat if I could. To be thicker skinned. To let criticisms and slights just roll right off my shoulder. To not care so much what other people think? I mean what practical benefits do I get from being the way I am? I suppose it makes me a kinder and more considerate person, but that benefits other people. It’s not benefitting myself. It’s not making me a happier person.

So based on this, can I still even be an LII? Because this sounds rather un-LII-like. Most LIIs I know, do not get worked up over such comments like these. Most LIIs are less emotional and thicker-skinned. Most LIIs don’t seem to care enough about ethics to get involved in debating about such things. This sounds more ethical. Whether it’s more Fi or Fe, I’m not sure. I think it could be both. Fi if it’s emphasizing the ethics and morals more. Fe if it’s more about mood and atmosphere. I am considering both EII and SEI as possibilities. I think the former is more likely because I do think I have strong Ne and weaker Si but I’m open to SEI or any other type.

I know an LII-Ne who does this. Really conflict avoidant LII, that one. Really strong in Ne too. Ti is still the leading function tho' because he takes it seriously.

Also you are identifying with enneagram 5... it makes LII much more likely than SEI or EII.

[glam]

Yup, prob. just harmonizing LII-Ne. I think the focus on logical correctness is more of an online phenomenon, where many just want to conform to the stereotype because if you aren't as stereotypical as possible people will doubt your type and call you an F of some sort. They are just puffing their brain out. I bet many are much more accommodating in real life. Of course, the other stereotype is to say the fuck with any and all stereotypes and act how ever you feel, which is more courageous.

where did this come from? nobody said that chips should act differently from herself. if someone thinks that chips could be an Ethical type, it doesn't necessarily mean they "want her to conform to the stereotype" are "puffing their brain out" lol. i wonder why you are being so presumptuous about how other people think about typing? :/

if anything i'm often hesitant to "question" people's self-typings, because i know a lot of people on this forum are dealing with non-socionic psychological issues often related to a crisis of identity, and that's a sensitive matter. i only did it here because chips herself said she's reconsidering her type atm.

[Skepsis]

where did this come from? nobody said that chips should act differently from herself. if someone thinks that chips could be an Ethical type, it doesn't necessarily mean they "want her to conform to the stereotype" are "puffing their brain out" lol. i wonder why you are being so presumptuous about how other people think about typing? :/

if anything i'm often hesitant to "question" people's self-typings, because i know a lot of people on this forum are dealing with non-socionic psychological issues often related to a crisis of identity, and that's a sensitive matter. i only did it here because chips herself said she's reconsidering her type atm.

I don't mean to be presumptuous. What I was referring to was not related to chip directly or anyone trying to type her. It was observing that many logical types tend to overdo their logic online. I know many LIIs in person and none talk and behave in person as online; the ones I know are way more fun and easy going and accommodating, irl. Not like an ethical type, but still more than they present online. Online there is a lot of effort into proving your type and this often occurs by people behaving in stereotypical ways. This is easily observed on NT forums. When you do not behave as such you are rejected as NT. It is a social phenomenon. Any talk of ethical concerns, if not done right, will make you suspect. If they really are an ethical type, then so be it. I'm only saying that it is entirely in the realm of possibility that an NT can express ethical sentiments and still be an NT. That's all. It's in the theory.

I thought "brain puffing out" was funny

[Skepsis]

Good. We can be duals then. I'm a conspicuous unadventurous type.

What dual pair do you want to be?

[The Exception]

What dual pair do you want to be?

All of them!

[Skepsis]

I see Ti in her posts and in her humor, which she has a lot of. LII-Ne with strong role Fi would also explain why she is more harmonizing. LII without Fi role is the stereotypical LII. Non-stereotypical =/ not-LII. Only an LII with no Fi and an EII with no Ti can't be confused with one another. These types can look much alike.

[glam]

I see Ti in her posts and in her humor, which she has a lot of. LII-Ne with strong role Fi would also explain why she is more harmonizing. LII without Fi role is the stereotypical LII. Non-stereotypical =/ not-LII. Only an LII with no Fi and an EII with no Ti can't be confused with one another. These types can look much alike.

i know that they're lookalike types, but an LII having a pronounced Fi role doesn't really explain what i see as defining behavior and functional strengths for chips. i see her consistently using Fi-related semantics in her communication, and by her own description in this post, she is comfortable making Fi judgments and acting on them. explaining away this Fi focus doesn't somehow make her LII. and i think her sense of humor is very Ne (which makes sense given that Ne is her Creative function and likely her subtype).

another thing: in another thread (forgot which), i remember her mentioning that the quadra she relates to the least is Beta. seems strange for an Alpha type to say that.

[Skepsis]

i know that they're lookalike types, but an LII having a pronounced Fi role doesn't really explain what i see as defining behavior and functional strengths for chips. i see her consistently using Fi-related semantics in her communication, and by her own description in this post, she is comfortable making Fi judgments and acting on them. explaining away this Fi focus doesn't somehow make her LII. and i think her sense of humor is very Ne (which makes sense given that Ne is her Creative function and likely her subtype).

another thing: in another thread (forgot which), i remember her mentioning that the quadra she relates to the least is Beta. seems strange for an Alpha type to say that.

I disagree. None of the LII descriptions include even a mildly strong Fi role, so there is very little to go by in terms of how one would identify it. Including all the ways LII could use functions other than TiNe would lead to a more diversified group of LIIs.

She uses Fi, but it does not seem that this is something other people would depend on her providing(no offense).

[glam]

@Myst i think it's easy to slap the "Alpha" label on her brand of humor due to stereotypes, but i don't think it's always that simple - i've seen Deltas whose humor isn't that different. and again, the fact she said Beta is the quadra she relates to the least seems significant.

however if you think she could be Fi role like yourself, then i won't dismiss that.

I disagree. None of the LII descriptions include even a mildly strong Fi role, so there is very little to go by in terms of how one would identify it. Including all the ways LII could use functions other than TiNe would lead to a more diversified group of LIIs.

She uses Fi, but it does not seem that this is something other people would depend on her providing(no offense).

i don't base everything i know about types and their functional use on descriptions alone - type descriptions are other people's observations about how functions manifest in any given type, and there are things i've seen IRL that aren't always noted in these descriptions. here you are arguing that nobody really knows what Fi role in LII really looks like (which i disagree with), and then you use this supposed lack of understanding to justify why chips is LII?

btw i could be wrong in thinking she could be EII-Ne, i'm not here to argue it to the death or anything. it's just that i see Fi as pronounced in her somehow, and i don't see LII/Alpha as an "obvious" typing, even though many others seem to agree with it, or at least go along with it.

[The Exception]

another thing: in another thread (forgot which), i remember her mentioning that the quadra she relates to the least is Beta. seems strange for an Alpha type to say that.

One of the reasons why I'm considering delta.

Also you are identifying with enneagram 5... it makes LII much more likely than SEI or EII.

I relate alot to the 5 description but I'm not totally sure I'm a core type 5 anymore. I also relate quite a bit to every type except 2, 7, and 8. Other than 5, I probably relate to 9 the most.

She says: "Then I wonder if it’s even valid to be thinking such a thing when no one seems to agree"

How is that confidence in Fi as in lead Fi types?... Nope.

Again, try not to confuse Fi role with Fi base. I noticed people do make that mistake sometimes. I've seen her make judgments out of Ti however, instead of Fi.

Why couldn't an Fi say such a thing?

She uses Fi, but it does not seem that this is something other people would depend on her providing(no offense).

I can't recall anyone ever asking me advice on Fi related matters.

[Sol]

One of the reasons why I'm considering delta.

You need to check IR for this.
Descriptions of beta I saw are a little "dark" and impressionable N-Fe types may don't like this image and then reject the possibility to be beta just because "beta is bad". As I think you are introvert according to your video, INFP variant is among possible there (ISTJ is too doubtful).
Recently I saw here INFP Fay wich thought INFJ as her type, then she wrote xNFP in profile.

[Myst]

I see Ti in her posts and in her humor, which she has a lot of. LII-Ne with strong role Fi would also explain why she is more harmonizing. LII without Fi role is the stereotypical LII. Non-stereotypical =/ not-LII. Only an LII with no Fi and an EII with no Ti can't be confused with one another. These types can look much alike.

I do also see her as having Ti in her posts, the way of reasoning she uses is much more Ti in origin than Fi, and yeah the jokes seem rather Alphaish. My LII-Ne friend I mention above makes similar jokes lol

[Beautiful sky]

Sli

[Not A Communist Shill]

I think you (@chips and underwear) perhaps associate your skills and your mindset as being highly "logical", and the correct way of being, even when it comes to dealing with personal judgements (perhaps especially because you consider all or most evaluations you make as reasonable, qualitative approximations based on well-considered thought processes: you will typically know exactly what your view is on a position, or why you think a certain way, or at least you are able to say that you cannot make a definitive judgment on the matter...and expressing exactly why!: not all individuals are able to readily do this), and so readily identify with : speaking from my own experience, I could not readily comprehend , seeing it as a poor imitation of I also saw myself as being far more "rational" than the vast majority of people (which I probably am).

is just as much about a focus on an internalised systematic, evaluative thought process as . I think also that -types in fairly impersonal and/or bookish fields can still excel, although they may find it difficult to have little or no "human" element whatsoever.

whatever you decide, it may be best to simply stick to understanding which information elements and people you value rather than focusing on the exact implications of whatever your type is, and thus trying to live optimally. (It is a very peculiar process to undergo a type change and suddenly seeing that you are scoring differently on tests despite you being the same person! - speaking personally).

[Beautiful sky]

I think that you are good at telling people what to do. That you don't think everything can be placed into a system makes you delta values already and I think you confuse T types not being able to feel and have emotions maybe that's why you're looking into ethical type. Your speech is so often Si..."comfort, comfortable, comfortable to me, to make you and others feel comfortable"

Si can feel hypersensitive because it disrupts comfort

[ashlesha]

i'm not going to try to verbalize where this is coming from because i'm bad at doing so & because others in this thread have already more or less put words to my thoughts fantastically - but EII does definitely fit very comfortably with the way i see you.

[darya]

Cannot place you, but ethical is one of the first things that pops up when I think of you.

Actually, you kinda remind me of @Suz.

[The Exception]

You are getting fuzzy again, LIIs never do this.


They don't seem similar to me in a cognitive sense. Subteigh as I said seems fuzzy while chips is never like that.

I can be rather fuzzy sometimes.

Cannot place you, but ethical is one of the first things that pops up when I think of you.

Actually, you kinda remind me of @Suz.

I'll take that as a compliment. @Suz

[Suz]

I can be rather fuzzy sometimes.



I'll take that as a compliment. @Suz

ditto!

[Myst]

I understand what it means for Ti to be "an external function", but it seemed totally irrelevant for you to bring it up (apart from such language being needless in itself). First I was asked to describe in my own understanding after I had said I have historically had problems in conceptualising it, especially in relation to , then after being asked to describe that very same IM, you mentioned that I was "getting fuzzy again" after being perfectly clear about my typical thought process.

No, Ti being an external IE in contrast to Fi is quite relevant here. The thing is I did not have a problem with your Fi description on its own, you actually described that rather well, my problem was that you thought Ti was just like Fi too. So I needed to point out this difference between Ti and Fi. It is also the reason why Fi egos seem fuzzy to me as a Ti ego. (As I already explained, this is my POV. Socionics is about such differences exactly.) Overall I think you should improve your understanding on Ti because you kept saying you think Ti is like Fi in aspects where it most clearly is not.

Reminder on what I mean by "fuzzy": "You in comparison to her sound more vague, less clear, less explicit, less consistent in expressing your thoughts overall. You are somehow rambling, the impression of which I never get from her. Note this is my Ti ego POV You may not sound vague to some other people. But I find it relevant for typing her."

I relate alot to the 5 description but I'm not totally sure I'm a core type 5 anymore. I also relate quite a bit to every type except 2, 7, and 8. Other than 5, I probably relate to 9 the most.

It makes sense that you'd have a 9 fixation too. The LII guy you remind me of also has both 5 and 9, btw.

Why couldn't an Fi say such a thing?

They don't rely on others when deciding how they feel about something.

I can't recall anyone ever asking me advice on Fi related matters.

Yeah exactly.

My thinking can be rather impressionistic as well. An example would be typing someone. I get an overall vibe or impression from them. They remind me of other people that are known to be that type. Sometimes it's hard to justify to others in words why I think that type.

Seems like most people get this vibe thing.

I am capable of telling others what to do when I need to do so. But I don't feel fully comfortable doing that, maybe because I tend to resent it when others tell me what to do when I didn't ask them for it. I am far better at giving people suggestions on a good course of action than 'insisting' someone do something. The insisting part would be more fitting with Se.

Yes, you are very Ne/Si valuing.

I don't think everything can be fit neatly into a system from a practical standpoint but oftentimes with theories like socionics, I have a tendency to get carried away and be rather impractical with it. Start to see things as being socionically signficant that probably shouldn't be. I have to remind myself to step back and say to myself 'this is just a theory.' It can't explain everything.

From a practical standpoint? Elaborate on this more please?

Regarding comfort, for me it's more than just physical comfort, which Si measures. It's more about emotional comfort. Wanting harmony and pleasant relations between others. That would be more Fi, I think. Of course, Si comfort is still important to me but emotional comfort is even more so. If I could only have one, I'd pick emotional comfort. It's more personal. Physical comfort is not personal and if you're hurt physically its a temporary thing, whereas with emotional hurt it's hard to move on, it becomes ingrained in my psyche.

More Si/Ne valuing.

What Fi is, it is about your personal feelings towards things/people. Strong Fi will also be able to see this in other people. Do you think you do this consciously and with confidence?

I am quite confident in my judgements in the sense that I personally see them to be logically sound, they make sense to me, I know why I think the way I do and I can justify them to myself. But where I'm less confident is in what other people will think of them. I can convince myself easily but what about others?

Hm, this is some degree of confidence in Ti with low/devalued Se. Also, seems like conscious Ti (mental ring).

Interesting that Subteigh switched from LII to EII. I guess it's a trend that the cool people are doing.

Lol what do you mean by "cool" people?

I can be rather fuzzy sometimes.

See what I meant by "fuzzy" though, I explained it to Subteigh before, comparing him to you: "You in comparison to her sound more vague, less clear, less explicit, less consistent in expressing your thoughts overall. You are somehow rambling, the impression of which I never get from her. Note this is my Ti ego POV You may not sound vague to some other people. But I find it relevant for typing her." (Obviously "her" = you.)

[Not A Communist Shill]

No, Ti being an external IE in contrast to Fi is quite relevant here.

The issue I raised with Ti being described as an external function was more to do with such descriptions moving away from what was important & obfuscating matters. It is far more useful to describe things in practical terms without needless abstractions.

[Myst]

The issue I raised with Ti being described as an external function was more to do with such descriptions moving away from what was important & obfuscating matters. It is far more useful to describe things in practical terms without needless abstractions.

Lol you are such Te>Ti valuing here.

Does @chips and underwear relate to this stance?

Anyway, I don't see why you'd even begin to think that defining Ti as an external IE is no good. What. Really, that's part of the core definition for Ti as an information element. It is absolutely not a "needless" abstraction.

[Beautiful sky]

SLI

[Not A Communist Shill]

You don't see why? Do you even understand what it means for Ti to be an external IE?




You are getting fuzzy again, LIIs never do this..

I really don't see why you find it difficult to read my posts at face value. I thought I was perfectly clear. If you wanted specific examples, perhaps you could suggest a scenario?

[Myst]

I really don't see why you find it difficult to read my posts at face value. I thought I was perfectly clear. If you wanted specific examples, perhaps you could suggest a scenario?

It is not about the lack of specific examples, LIIs don't exactly give many examples either so I don't know how you ended up at this guess. This is about the difference between Ti base vs Fi base with Ti role, the point being that Ti is an external IE while Fi is not. You didn't answer me on whether you understand what that means.

[Not A Communist Shill]

It is not about the lack of specific examples, LIIs don't exactly give many examples either so I don't know how you ended up at this guess. This is about the difference between Ti base vs Fi base with Ti role, the point being that Ti is an external IE while Fi is not. You didn't answer me on whether you understand what that means.

I understand what it means for Ti to be "an external function", but it seemed totally irrelevant for you to bring it up (apart from such language being needless in itself). First I was asked to describe in my own understanding after I had said I have historically had problems in conceptualising it, especially in relation to , then after being asked to describe that very same IM, you mentioned that I was "getting fuzzy again" after being perfectly clear about my typical thought process.

[tejing]

I've always been somewhat skeptical about you being LII, because although you do a fair amount of , it's never seemed like it has the central place in your cognitive structure that the base function would have. Also, I never sense the cold-blooded communication style from you; there always seems to be an undercurrent of sincerity and personal connectedness. Have you considered EII with a Normalizing DCNH subtype?

[hatesyardwork]

I read your 80 page questionnaire thread......very sincere and long answers with a very Ethical Fi slant imo. (I was too lazy to fill one out myself.....I can tell you are sincere in trying to narrow your type down) Lead Fi I believe which means Ne or Se ego.....I say Ne. EII.

[UDP]

From what I've seen of Chips, she is more likely LII > EII. She approaches typology with a kind of alpha NT approach about rules and what things mean, and I don't see her as actually putting Fi above Ti (or Fe, at times); there are instances where someone says a very heavy personal Fi declaration and her reactions remind me of alphas, who, tend to suggest that someone might be mistaken or in the wrong for having such a strong feeling (that is negative), rather than inquiring about the nature of why (Te) someone would feel that way. This is an extremely condensed remark. Maybe more later.

[The Exception]

From what I've seen of Chips, she is more likely LII > EII. She approaches typology with a kind of alpha NT approach about rules and what things mean, and I don't see her as actually putting Fi above Ti (or Fe, at times); there are instances where someone says a very heavy personal Fi declaration and her reactions remind me of alphas, who, tend to suggest that someone might be mistaken or in the wrong for having such a strong feeling (that is negative), rather than inquiring about the nature of why (Te) someone would feel that way. This is an extremely condensed remark. Maybe more later.

I didn't know you still posted here. Thanks for the feedback.

I am interested in knowing the 'why' behind someone's feelings though.

[UDP]

"I am interested in knowing the 'why' behind someone's feelings though."
I'm glad you are not a blockhead.

Some very smart people don't do this, and still think they know enough about people to have substantial input into their conditions - I have been like such on many occasions.

[Beautiful sky]

this

involutionary sensing of experiences (Si), strives to not let in anything that may destroy the already existing order, harmony, and way of life; he wishes to distance from physical and and psychological irritants, to preserve the wholesomeness and beauty of relations, of the person, of the world around him. If harmful elements are brought up for discussion, they are usually mentioned as something that needs to be eliminated from one's environment, from one's personality or personal relationships.

[Beautiful sky]

You are a strategic type therefore you are not LII