LII-Ne with strong EII tendencies, 6w7-9w1-3w4 so/sp/sx, INxP
My thinking can be rather impressionistic as well. An example would be typing someone. I get an overall vibe or impression from them. They remind me of other people that are known to be that type. Sometimes it's hard to justify to others in words why I think that type.
I am capable of telling others what to do when I need to do so. But I don't feel fully comfortable doing that, maybe because I tend to resent it when others tell me what to do when I didn't ask them for it. I am far better at giving people suggestions on a good course of action than 'insisting' someone do something. The insisting part would be more fitting with Se.
I don't think everything can be fit neatly into a system from a practical standpoint but oftentimes with theories like socionics, I have a tendency to get carried away and be rather impractical with it. Start to see things as being socionically signficant that probably shouldn't be. I have to remind myself to step back and say to myself 'this is just a theory.' It can't explain everything.
Regarding comfort, for me it's more than just physical comfort, which Si measures. It's more about emotional comfort. Wanting harmony and pleasant relations between others. That would be more Fi, I think. Of course, Si comfort is still important to me but emotional comfort is even more so. If I could only have one, I'd pick emotional comfort. It's more personal. Physical comfort is not personal and if you're hurt physically its a temporary thing, whereas with emotional hurt it's hard to move on, it becomes ingrained in my psyche.
I am quite confident in my judgements in the sense that I personally see them to be logically sound, they make sense to me, I know why I think the way I do and I can justify them to myself. But where I'm less confident is in what other people will think of them. I can convince myself easily but what about others?
Interesting that Subteigh switched from LII to EII. I guess it's a trend that the cool people are doing.
LII-Ne with strong EII tendencies, 6w7-9w1-3w4 so/sp/sx, INxP
I can be rather fuzzy sometimes.
I'll take that as a compliment. @Suz
LII-Ne with strong EII tendencies, 6w7-9w1-3w4 so/sp/sx, INxP
From what I've seen of Chips, she is more likely LII > EII. She approaches typology with a kind of alpha NT approach about rules and what things mean, and I don't see her as actually putting Fi above Ti (or Fe, at times); there are instances where someone says a very heavy personal Fi declaration and her reactions remind me of alphas, who, tend to suggest that someone might be mistaken or in the wrong for having such a strong feeling (that is negative), rather than inquiring about the nature of why (Te) someone would feel that way. This is an extremely condensed remark. Maybe more later.
Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.
~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.
"I am interested in knowing the 'why' behind someone's feelings though."
I'm glad you are not a blockhead.
Some very smart people don't do this, and still think they know enough about people to have substantial input into their conditions - I have been like such on many occasions.
Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.
~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.
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Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
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Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
this
involutionary sensing of experiences (Si), strives to not let in anything that may destroy the already existing order, harmony, and way of life; he wishes to distance from physical and and psychological irritants, to preserve the wholesomeness and beauty of relations, of the person, of the world around him. If harmful elements are brought up for discussion, they are usually mentioned as something that needs to be eliminated from one's environment, from one's personality or personal relationships.
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Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
No, Ti being an external IE in contrast to Fi is quite relevant here. The thing is I did not have a problem with your Fi description on its own, you actually described that rather well, my problem was that you thought Ti was just like Fi too. So I needed to point out this difference between Ti and Fi. It is also the reason why Fi egos seem fuzzy to me as a Ti ego. (As I already explained, this is my POV. Socionics is about such differences exactly.) Overall I think you should improve your understanding on Ti because you kept saying you think Ti is like Fi in aspects where it most clearly is not.
Reminder on what I mean by "fuzzy": "You in comparison to her sound more vague, less clear, less explicit, less consistent in expressing your thoughts overall. You are somehow rambling, the impression of which I never get from her. Note this is my Ti ego POV You may not sound vague to some other people. But I find it relevant for typing her."
It makes sense that you'd have a 9 fixation too. The LII guy you remind me of also has both 5 and 9, btw.
They don't rely on others when deciding how they feel about something.Why couldn't an Fi say such a thing?
Yeah exactly.I can't recall anyone ever asking me advice on Fi related matters.
Seems like most people get this vibe thing.
Yes, you are very Ne/Si valuing.I am capable of telling others what to do when I need to do so. But I don't feel fully comfortable doing that, maybe because I tend to resent it when others tell me what to do when I didn't ask them for it. I am far better at giving people suggestions on a good course of action than 'insisting' someone do something. The insisting part would be more fitting with Se.
From a practical standpoint? Elaborate on this more please?I don't think everything can be fit neatly into a system from a practical standpoint but oftentimes with theories like socionics, I have a tendency to get carried away and be rather impractical with it. Start to see things as being socionically signficant that probably shouldn't be. I have to remind myself to step back and say to myself 'this is just a theory.' It can't explain everything.
More Si/Ne valuing.Regarding comfort, for me it's more than just physical comfort, which Si measures. It's more about emotional comfort. Wanting harmony and pleasant relations between others. That would be more Fi, I think. Of course, Si comfort is still important to me but emotional comfort is even more so. If I could only have one, I'd pick emotional comfort. It's more personal. Physical comfort is not personal and if you're hurt physically its a temporary thing, whereas with emotional hurt it's hard to move on, it becomes ingrained in my psyche.
What Fi is, it is about your personal feelings towards things/people. Strong Fi will also be able to see this in other people. Do you think you do this consciously and with confidence?
Hm, this is some degree of confidence in Ti with low/devalued Se. Also, seems like conscious Ti (mental ring).I am quite confident in my judgements in the sense that I personally see them to be logically sound, they make sense to me, I know why I think the way I do and I can justify them to myself. But where I'm less confident is in what other people will think of them. I can convince myself easily but what about others?
Lol what do you mean by "cool" people?Interesting that Subteigh switched from LII to EII. I guess it's a trend that the cool people are doing.
See what I meant by "fuzzy" though, I explained it to Subteigh before, comparing him to you: "You in comparison to her sound more vague, less clear, less explicit, less consistent in expressing your thoughts overall. You are somehow rambling, the impression of which I never get from her. Note this is my Ti ego POV You may not sound vague to some other people. But I find it relevant for typing her." (Obviously "her" = you.)
Improving your happiness and changing your personality for the better
Jungian theory is not grounded in empirical data (pdf file)
The case against type dynamics (pdf file)
Cautionary comments regarding the MBTI (pdf file)
Reinterpreting the MBTI via the five-factor model (pdf file)
Do the Big Five personality traits interact to predict life outcomes? (pdf file)
The Big Five personality test outperformed the Jungian and Enneagram test in predicting life outcomes
Evidence of correlations between human partners based on systematic reviews and meta-analyses of traits
Lol you are such Te>Ti valuing here.
Does @chips and underwear relate to this stance?
Anyway, I don't see why you'd even begin to think that defining Ti as an external IE is no good. What. Really, that's part of the core definition for Ti as an information element. It is absolutely not a "needless" abstraction.
Again, the point I made was whether this was a necessary deviation for this thread. To describe the distinction in such a way does not get to the meat-and-bones of what we were discussing, and is rather a fuzzy approach.
Why did you ask me if I knew if was an external function, when it is well-known and more readily understood that "thinking" functions are more objective (in the usual sense of the word) and more detached than "feeling" functions? Your attitude to me seemed like pointing out that "of course circles are round, the ratio of their circumference divided by their diameter = Pi", but further, converted into the wankery of describing it as an "external function"...it adds nothing. I'm not saying we can't have those discussions (I have taken part in many of them myself): I just found your deviation peculiar.
"External function" by itself doesn't mean anything: it is understood first by descriptions that are more readily understood and/or which cut straight to the point...and in this case, which are directly relevant to how the individual experiences an IM.
Improving your happiness and changing your personality for the better
Jungian theory is not grounded in empirical data (pdf file)
The case against type dynamics (pdf file)
Cautionary comments regarding the MBTI (pdf file)
Reinterpreting the MBTI via the five-factor model (pdf file)
Do the Big Five personality traits interact to predict life outcomes? (pdf file)
The Big Five personality test outperformed the Jungian and Enneagram test in predicting life outcomes
Evidence of correlations between human partners based on systematic reviews and meta-analyses of traits
It does. It is not a deviation, I was referring to this distinct difference in the context of OP's type.
Nope, but it is interesting you find Ti fuzzy from your POV and I find Fi fuzzy from my POV.and is rather a fuzzy approach.
I asked you because you sounded like you didn't have the slightest idea when you said your Fi descriptions could apply to Ti as well. Nope. And again, not a "deviation". It does add quite a lot by pointing out where your ideas on Fi do *not* apply to Ti. I will however not repeat myself on this, I've explained this enough times in previous posts. Unless you have specific questions, there is nothing more to say on this issue.Why did you ask me if I knew if was an external function, when it is well-known and more readily understood that "thinking" functions are more objective (in the usual sense of the word) and more detached than "feeling" functions? Your attitude to me seemed like pointing out that "of course circles are round, the ratio of their circumference divided by their diameter = Pi", but further, converted into the wankery of describing it as an "external function"...it adds nothing. I'm not saying we can't have those discussions (I have taken part in many of them myself): I just found your deviation peculiar.
"External function" by itself doesn't mean anything: it is understood first by descriptions that are more readily understood and/or which cut straight to the point...and in this case, which are directly relevant to how the individual experiences an IM.
Also, it is an external IE, not an "external function". As for my referring to the technical terms of the theory, if you or anyone else is having trouble understanding the definitions, asking about them is always OK.
Improving your happiness and changing your personality for the better
Jungian theory is not grounded in empirical data (pdf file)
The case against type dynamics (pdf file)
Cautionary comments regarding the MBTI (pdf file)
Reinterpreting the MBTI via the five-factor model (pdf file)
Do the Big Five personality traits interact to predict life outcomes? (pdf file)
The Big Five personality test outperformed the Jungian and Enneagram test in predicting life outcomes
Evidence of correlations between human partners based on systematic reviews and meta-analyses of traits
I did see the Ne in it, that was not my problem. The similarities you guessed at are not going to be there for LII's just because both types are Ne creatives. You talked about ad-hoc justifications and approximations, Ti especially as base function doesn't have anything to do with that. Also I don't think LII's only differ in terms of competence from EII's which was your guess. They differ in terms of focus (Ti vs Fi), difference in competence in a topic is not a given as it depends on non-socionics factors too. Also, we are not talking about behaviour but ways of information processing in the mind.
You are a strategic type therefore you are not LII
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Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
LII-Ne with strong EII tendencies, 6w7-9w1-3w4 so/sp/sx, INxP
@chips and underwear Have you ever known any LSEs? What are your opinions about them? I've known quite a few and when I interact with them it becomes very apparent how much more I prefer getting Fe over Te.
I know a few LSEs. I admire their confidence, their practical know-how, and their productivity. I think with interaction I somewhat prefer ESE. I respond very well to positive emotional atmospheres so long as it's sincere and not overly dramatic. Te is more of a mixed bag. I don't always appreciate unsolicited Te advice or when they insist their way of doing something is the one right way and everyone should do it that way. But I'm quite welcoming of Te advice when I ask for it.
LII-Ne with strong EII tendencies, 6w7-9w1-3w4 so/sp/sx, INxP
Chips could you maybe post a few of your photos?
Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.
~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.
Last edited by The Exception; 10-18-2015 at 03:02 PM.
LII-Ne with strong EII tendencies, 6w7-9w1-3w4 so/sp/sx, INxP
I base that on accumulation of posts I've read of yours over the years (both those that you've written about yourself and miscellaneous posts), and a vid you posted at one point. I've always thought you to be LII on vibe, humor, and you seem to align with alpha values> delta values. Fe> Fi. Most of the LIIs I've gotten to know have been highly sensitive people once they were comfortable enough to express that part of themselves.
But, naturally, you know yourself best so take my statements with a grain of salt.
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Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
Pictures do confuse things. In these you look just like an SEI I know. In your videos you look different but still have warmth. I have said that you vibe "lighter", like an alpha, to me, BUT, you also seem more ethical than some of the other LII. I think Fi is role for LII? Also, I read, women in general tend to come off more ethical than men, even the logical types and ethical men can come off more logical. Like in comparison to @Myst you seem more ethical to me but she comes off very logical.
I think I prefer to read how people process stuff, in different situations, over seeing their videos or pics. Then all kinds of associations will pop up. I need pure data (not really).
“My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.” —C.G. Jung