Actually, I found their relation was not that strained at all. On the contrary, he had compassion and respect for both Eboshi's reality and the world Mononoke lived in.Originally Posted by niffer
So, they might actually be Duals. At least that is how I saw it. I would agree with typing Eboshi as LIE, btw.
From me no comments on your typings, just wanted to pop in and say great movie. One of my favourite Miyazaki hands down.
1) She laughed at him when he stated his reason for coming to the town
2) He was filled with rage and tried to kill her when she spoke about turning the god into a demon with her iron
3) The entire time, while yes respecting the community of the humans, he basically disapproved of Eboshi's approach towards how she was in conflict with the animals and her methods for developing the forest
I don't really see how it wasn't mostly strained, with the mutual respect coming from sharing a similar way of communication with Ni in the ego talking about future visions for development lol. Both of them are "calm" and farsighted.
At one point in the plot Jigo comments, "What side is he on anyway?" .. Esenin is supposed to be the "social survivor" type. As well, Esenin is supposed to be the bifurcation point before beta turns to gamma. From http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...-Benefit-Rings :
This was literally his entire role in the film. And we can say that the second quadra was symbolized by the state of chaos and disorder that the environment was in at the time."The corrector or perfector of the quadra is its fourth type - IEI. This type is the bifurcation point - it does something to make the system transition to a completely different state, a more democratic one. This is what is called an "open society". This is the mission of third, gamma quadra. IEI carries the key which locks the second quadra and unlocks the third one. He dreams of a better life, that all this totalitarianism comes to an end, strives to create peace. He rejects force. The system disintegrates - a sudden collapse then everything moves towards a new state. This can be observed experimentally - if an IEI is working in a group he will as some point halt this huge machine. It is simply amazing how he brings about this crash, unclear how this is achieved. Here again it can all start over again or move to third quadra. But nobody will leave voluntarily, especially from second quadra."
Mononoke and Ashitaka are pictured as complete opposites in character in nearly every way (although, I can see how in terms of abilities like fighting, they both pretty much look like superheroes which is going to lead you to want to say Se ego for both). One is a prince from a noble tribe from a faraway land, ultra cultured, bred from a line of men where the bloodline has been getting weaker and weaker with each generation (ESI men are fit and strong so this wouldn't be a viable comment if he were ESI; some kind of Ni ego, especially IEI which is arguable the most feminine type makes way more sense); the other, more or less half animal half human, and unable to fit into either category. This brings up another argument for SLE rather than LSI or some other Se ego type for Mononoke. SLE is supposed to be a type that historically can harmonize differences between two very opposite sides--they are Fe hidden agenda, and so they also strongly seek to be accepted by a group. Do you remember the part in the movie where a member of the ape tribe insults Mononoke by saying that she doesn't care about the animals' situation because she is human? How offended and hurt she reacted to it? For another thing, Mononoke is way too emotionally expressive at a constant rate to be 1D Fe. Her handle on Se is way too intense. So I say it makes way more sense for her to be 4D Se and 2D Fe, and for her and Ashitaka to be duals, a yin and yang as they have been created to come across. It makes sense for them to both be working together, for the Fe and Se-valuing purpose of reconciling all parties and saving the forest spirit along with the humans and their wellbeing.
[Today 07:57 AM] Raver: Life is a ride that lasts very long, but still a ride. It is a dream that we have yet to awaken from.
It's hard to find a love through every shade of grey.
Gamma Se's in anime, as protagonists, are very widespread. Ashitaka is not one of them. Very IP demeanor, even when hes driven for a cause you can see the exertion of energy to keep from sputtering out. Princess mononoke is a great film, as most Ghibli films are, but there was added suspense due to implicit time limits. How long can Ashitaka keep this up? How long until the disease spreads? Can they catch the boar in time? How long can the forest god last? etc...
Ponyo is my favorite Ghibli example of SLE - IEI.
Projection is ordinary. Person A projects at person B, hoping tovalidate something about person A by the response of person B. However, person B, not wanting to be an obejct of someone elses ego and guarding against existential terror constructs a personality which protects his ego and maintain a certain sense of a robust and real self that is different and separate from person A. Sadly, this robust and real self, cut off by defenses of character from the rest of the world, is quite vulnerable and fragile given that it is imaginary and propped up through external feed back. Person B is dimly aware of this and defends against it all the more, even desperately projecting his anxieties back onto person A, with the hope of shoring up his ego with salubrious validation. All of this happens without A or B acknowledging it, of course. Because to face up to it consciously is shocking, in that this is all anybody is doing or can do and it seems absurd when you realize how pathetic it is.
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What Duality looks like between an ♂SLE-Ti and ♀IEI-Fe.
What are the differences between SLE-Ti/IEI-Fe and SLE-SE/IEI-Ni dualitys according to you?. The difference that you make seems interesting.
The extroverted subtypes have a more initiating, "bridging-the-distance" vibe and agenda, whereas the introverted subtypes have a more withdrawn, "keeping-to-myself, letting-myself-approached" quality to them.
In the photo series above, you can see how the guy seems kind of remote from the world, even though his presence is strong. The girl leans towards him into the car with a warm smile, bridging the distance.
I find the subtype often represents one's general lifestyle, and how one approaches the world. Both SLE-Ti and IEI-Ni have a more solitary quality to them, being "in their own world" (esp. IEI-Ni). Whereas SLE-Se and IEI-Fe are more adjusted to the outside world, approaching it with more "open arms" (this is esp. the case for IEI-Fe, with the Contact subtype having the qualities of Fe). You can also just boil it down to SLE-Ti and IEI-Ni seeming more "NT" and hence less sociable and more intellectual, whereas SLE-Se and IEI-Fe are more like "SF", Socials, and by that fulfill the more "social", communicative role in the relationship.
I'd say this is IEI-SLE duality. Dougie and Harry from Mcfly. The blond guy is IEI, the other one is SLE; and they are cute.
Justin Timberlake EIE and Jessica Biel beta ST?
Aww thats cute.
Hah yeah pretty much could be.
Max Ernst (IEI) and Lenora Carrington (SLE). Second picture has Paul Eluard in foreground.
Duals - IEI Max Ernst & Sensor.jpg Duals Max Ernst & Leonora Carrington with Paul Eluard.jpg
I believe Justin Timberlake is ESI-Se E9, personally.
(There is this trend of E9 Fi leads seeming "less Fi" for some reason. If you relate it to Reinin, the E9 basically makes them seem less "Serious", it is like the E9 produces a more easygoing and accepting vibe, which is often mistaken for Fe valuing. For example, I have found that many EII E9 people are being mistyped as IEI or even EIE because of that effect.)
Actually I thought of EIE because he seems to have strong Ne. I really don't think he is Ne polr. He could be FeSi though?
What would you type Jessica Biel?
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David and Victoria Beckham: EIE / LSI
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Is Dave the EIE? Then unlikely imo.
ESFJ
No way Jessica Biel is ESFJ, come on...
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How is that ESFJ?
That's ESFJ:
Hm, I actually believe they are Identicals... ESI-ESI, ha.
They seem rather Gamma to me. Besides, Victoria's face screams Fe Ignoring, IMO. That's probably why you think she is 1D Fe, Dual-seeking.
David's face seems "softer" in an Fe way, but I attribute that again to him being E9. Really, all Fi valuing E9 people seem like Fe valuing from afar. (Type 9 wanting peace translates into them seeming like an Fe ego type without necessarily being one.)
In comparison, Victoria is 4w3, IMO.
Vicky is definitely 3w4 imo.Hm, I actually believe they are Identicals... ESI-ESI, ha.
They seem rather Gamma to me. Besides, Victoria's face screams Fe Ignoring, IMO. That's probably why you think she is 1D Fe, Dual-seeking.
David's face seems "softer" in an Fe way, but I attribute that again to him being E9. Really, all Fi valuing E9 people seem like Fe valuing from afar. (Type 9 wanting peace translates into them seeming like an Fe ego type without necessarily being one.)
In comparison, Victoria is 4w3, IMO.
I used to think so, too. But I believe her instinctual stacking (SO/SP) and Te seeking makes her seem more Type 3 than she truly is.
Also in the way she dresses and expresses itself is more Type 4, wanting to be uniquely stylish and so forth. She has a certain elitist attitude about what she is into (or not).
(She used to dress more like a stereotypical Type 4 when she was younger.)
I find her 3 wing is simply very strong.
But I get it why people would type her as 3w4.
I think she's sp/sx 3w4. 3w4 is definitely trying to be uniquely stylish - they try to be the most stylish, as in better/more than others. Being stylish above all else is 3 fixation - she's style over substance. 3w4 is also elitistic and snobby about their likes - that's like one of the main characteristics of this type. How do you type Adam Lambert for example? 4w3 as well? Tbh, I think you yourself are 4w3 and definitely not 4w5 and that's why you're mistyping 3w4's into 4w3's.
physical appearance
3/4s are interested in appearing attractive and sexy, because they are threes, but the four-wing makes them also want to be unique. Their overall appearance usually includes elements that set them apart from the crowd. 3/4s usually want to set the next fashion, rather than following the current one. Fourish sensitivity to aesthetics and form gives them a subtlety and flair that 3/2s usually seem to lack. Like 4/3s, they want to inject a bit of drama into their presentation.
Yes, I'd type Adam Lambert as 4w3 (SX/SP). I find he is most obviously Type 4, more obviously so than Victoria.
Just... look at him, trying really hard to be unique.
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Also, his song "Whataya Want From Me" is pretty much about a Sexual Type 4 who is caught up in their own negative emotional spiral, having difficulties coming out of a numbing depression, while still somehow loving the other person and asking for forgiveness.
A Type 3 would never be as emotionally open and vulnerable to the public (even as an artist) – Type 3s are actually afraid of showing and acknowledging their "darker, deeper" emotions, because it might make them look less like the shining successful person they want to be seen as. Depression is a sign of being a failure to a Type 3 – you cannot market yourself well with a depressive attitude. Adam Lambert is not afraid of bringing those negative emotions outwards at all, it is actually a part of his image. 3w4 will never be as comfortable with their darker emotions, even though they may be somewhat in touch with them (much more than 3w2), but they will be so mostly in secret, and only their closed loved ones would know.
Why do you think I am 4w3?
I can't see the Fe ignoring in Beckham (speaking from 2:00)Hm, I actually believe they are Identicals... ESI-ESI, ha.
They seem rather Gamma to me. Besides, Victoria's face screams Fe Ignoring, IMO. That's probably why you think she is 1D Fe, Dual-seeking.
David's face seems "softer" in an Fe way, but I attribute that again to him being E9. Really, all Fi valuing E9 people seem like Fe valuing from afar. (Type 9 wanting peace translates into them seeming like an Fe ego type without necessarily being one.)
In comparison, Victoria is 4w3, IMO.
But I agree with the E9 thing, he seems very peaceful, I thought N or H subtype in DCNH.
You have a strange view of e3 people, they're not robots who never share their feelings - that's a very surface interpretation of types. If it would be that easy, it would be great lol.Yes, I'd type Adam Lambert as 4w3 (SX/SP). I find he is most obviously Type 4, more obviously so than Victoria.
Just... look at him, trying really hard to be unique.
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Also, his song "Whataya Want From Me" is pretty much about a Sexual Type 4 who is caught up in their own negative emotional spiral, having difficulties coming out of a numbing depression, while still somehow loving the other person and asking for forgiveness.
A Type 3 would never be as emotionally open and vulnerable to the public (even as an artist) – Type 3s are actually afraid of showing and acknowledging their "darker, deeper" emotions, because it might make them look less like the shining successful person they want to be seen as. Depression is a sign of being a failure to a Type 3 – you cannot market yourself well with a depressive attitude. Adam Lambert is not afraid of bringing those negative emotions outwards at all, it is actually a part of his image. 3w4 will never be as comfortable with their darker emotions, even though they may be somewhat in touch with them (much more than 3w2), but they will be so mostly in secret, and only their closed loved ones would know.
Why do you think I am 4w3?
Oprah on anxiety: http://www.beyondanxietyanddepressio...-anxiety-story
Madonna on sadness: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz...llen-show.html
I think you're 4w3 cause you're too intuned into popular culture, style (posting pictures of fancy houses) and not iconoclastic enough for 5 wing (I really don't see 4w5 being a fan or even wasting their time watching Hodge twins : P) . 4w5 are like aliens to the world, you're in the culture, in the popular. 4w5 are close to 5, you are not quite intellectual enough imo and don't seem to have any touch of misantrophy in you. That's not an offense btw : ) I've seen your videos and think you're groomed too much in conventionally attractive ways for 4w5 (also very carefully styled, which is another indicator). 4w5 have a strong feeling that they are alienated, ugly and defective, and that's not my impression of you (am I wrong?)
sorry, i can't stop lol.
Christina Aguilera on her constant battle with depression : http://www.starpulse.com/news/index....battle_with_de
Britney : http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz...down-time.html
Selena: http://www.sugarscape.com/celebs/new...sed-interview/
@SisOfNight, ok, if you type Madonna as 4w3 than yeah, we clearly don't have the same view of the types (Warhol has a huge 4 wing, so he's trickier, but still a 3 core imo.). Your typings are very unconventional though.
First of all, I didn't mean not intellectual as in not educated .. so/sx with 4w5 is also a very exotic combination and I knew you're going to say that it's because of SO instinct before I even wrote it : P I disagree with the way you type instincts anyway, but ok. We have different views.
Humanities academia is full of 3w4's, they're not all businessmen or into LawThey can be very 5 like in their pursuits.
Ok, you're clearly a 4 so whatever the wing, it doesn't really matter. I shouldn't have said anything. Sorry if you feel like you had to defend yourself.
Demi Lovato - N type, mb INFP
The strangest thing is to discuss enneagram bs on Jung's types forum.
The strangest thing here is your wacko ass.
Adam Lambert is definitely not a 4 haha 4s are way more withdrawn and kind of aloof. And im a 4w3 and im not in tuned to pop culture at all @darya it's more of a Social thing.
And uhh Adam Lambert doesn't have much sexual energy. He is social first and then either sx or sp blindspot. Probably So/Sx.
I didn't say being into pop culture is usually a thing for 4w3, only that it's unusual for 4w5.
I replied to msnobody in the Enneagram thread.
We can "move" the Type 4 discussion there.
I'd rather have this thread being about Beta Duality.
He kissed a guy and can perform... so?
Eh, I am pretty sure he is 4w3 Sx/Sp.
But I guess that's just me.Haha.
haha look
communicating and kind of representing himself well, comes very natural to him, unlike social lasts. social lasts have this kind of heavy energy to them.
What do you think is 4 about him?
Beta Duality can be summed up as volatile but fun and exciting. Deltas often wonder what even keeps them together. They tend to think the same thing about Delta Duality, BTW. lol
IEE Ne Creative Type
Someand role lovin too. (
) I
too...
!!!!!!
I've been going to this restaurant in town for a few years, and I just today realized that the guy who acts as the operations manager is SLE. I've talked with him many many times, and I like the guy. He has a jaundiced view of relationships, though. I told him that I've been divorced for 1.5 years, and he turned to me and said "Congratulations". He hires a lot of the waitresses, and when I once asked about one, he said she had quit, but there are always new ones being hired. I got the impression that he will never get married, and is super-skeptical of women in general. However, that seems to be not entirely true.
I went in today and saw that a waitress who has worked there on and off for about two years was waiting tables. She looked ethereal and friendly and upbeat, and every time she passed near the SLE, she kind of acted like she was aware of his presence. Nothing overt, just very subtle. I could tell that he was aware of her, too, but was giving no outward signs of attraction. I talked with him for a while about my divorce, and during that time she would glance over at us with a look of concentration, or concern. As soon as he left, she came over and said, "Hi, Adam. What can I get you?" So, I ordered some food, and while it was being prepared, I went back and talked some more to the SLE.
Actually, I was talking to him about dating, my list of requirements that I had since I was 12 and how it failed me, and how I have a new list, based on something called Socionics. I wrote on a napkin that I thought he was SLE, and his best type for a match would be an IEI (I'm writing this down so he can look it up later) but IEI's are really rare. However, I thought he had a match in the restaurant in the form of that waitress. His eyes got big and he looked up at me and said "I wish" and quickly picked up the napkin and folded it up as she came back with my order.
She gave me a very subtle look like she was really suspicious, and was I screwing up something with the guy she has her eye on, but she set the order down and left.
I then realized that the SLE is looking at this waitress as the impossible dream, and she might be doing the same thing with him, although she looked possessive enough that she would probably make the first move, because the SLE was not gonna do that. I turned to him and said, "The problem with this match is that the people are so different, they sometimes think they are not good enough for the other person. He kind of flashed an "insulted" expression there for a split-second, but then quickly realized that's actually how he felt. Then he bounced away, and I finished my meal and left.
I'll have to see how this plays out in the coming weeks. If it does.
i hate it when SLEs do that ...
Indeed you will because now I'll need updates. This is juicy
IEI-Ni, DCNH-H, 4w5-9w1-5w4, sx/sp, Aquarius sun, Leo rising
...
"From their lives, and not least from their greatest fault--their inability to communicate--we may understand one of the greatest errors of our civilization, that is, the superstitious belief in verbal statements, the boundless overestimation of instruction by means of words and methods."--C.G. Jung on the introverted irrational types
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