Could I be SLE? LOL

[ScarlettLux]

Honestly though.. I've legitimately been considering it only because I focus SO much on (hidden agenda of EIE) and I seem to have a lot of weird related problems .. which could also be explained by EIE totally disregarding .. ? I think I just wanted to make a type thread haha. Because I still go between IEI and EIE as well.. so why not throw SLE into the mix?! I feel like if you all met me in person, you might believe the possibility more.

Nah I'm just a kitten trying to roar..

[nondescript]

Honestly though.. I've legitimately been considering it only because I focus SO much on (hidden agenda of EIE) and I seem to have a lot of weird related problems .. which could also be explained by EIE totally disregarding .. ? I think I just wanted to make a type thread haha. Because I still go between IEI and EIE as well.. so why not throw SLE into the mix?! I feel like if you all met me in person, you might believe the possibility more.

Nah I'm just a kitten trying to roar..

Here's the thing about the ignoring and why it is named so.

Dimensionality of functions. Four dimensions(Ex, No, Si, Te), four functions, two modalities. So, let's take an ESI as an example, shall we? FiSeTiNe II TeNiFeSi or in other words: 4D functions are Fi and Si, 3D functions are Se and Fe, 2D are Ti and Ni and 1D are Ne and Te. There is a pyramidal hierarchy to the functions: people are most comfortable in using their strongest functions. It is not until ignoring function(Fe) until the person begins actually prefering the unconscious functions. Unconscious functions being TeNiFeSi yeah. So, you begin your information gathering and processing and expressing function at your base function: Fi. It is the strongest, most conscious function that determines (no exaggeration here) EVERYTHING you do. Everything is a reflection or due to ESI's relationship towards the object, yeah. After that, you semi-consciously use your Si-so don't be alarmed if you catch yourself in the hedonistic streaks, sunbathing or such. The point is that you use Si EXCLUSIVELY for your own benefit-if you were a SEI, you'd build your entire world(instead of your entire concept of entertainment) around it-meaning you'd use it when interacting with others fully consciously. After your Demo function(Si), you use Se-this is most visible when you are NOT in the comfortable situations, dealing with strangers, that sort of thing(otherwise, you revert to Si). This is best visible when some kind of emergency comes up-you end up using some weird mashup of Si and Se. Consciously, it's mostly Se, but don't be fooled. There's a lot of Si there as well. After Se we come down to the "IGNORING" function-namely Fe. Why is ignoring function named so? Here's a comely example:

Your significant other has made a blunder in a public eye. Your S.O won't back down and keeps on crusading against the masses? What do you do? Naturally so! Most Fi doms completely reject their social graces(which are not little by any standard!) and choose to backup their S.O. Maybe they will even try to disarm the situation by calming their S.O. down. But they won't do what an ESE would do(perhaps even SEI): ESE would apologise to the public for the unacceptable behaviour of their S.O. and practically perforate their relation because COMMUNITY MUST NOT BE HARMED! Do you see the difference? Naturally! And why is it so?

Because when put into such a situation, ESI's Fi completely eclipses their Fe and they go into a sort of a tunnel vision-even if they don't act like it usually. The same happens with ExE Fe and their Ign Fi, SxE Se and their Si. THAT is why it is called "Ignorant" situation. It's not that you completely ignore it 24 / 7-the hell no. It's too strong to be ignored! It's just that it goes vs an unfortunate adversary, a completely imbalanced matchup to be sure: vs the base function. It's only natural that it gets stomped. But it only gets stomped in the "EITHER OR" situation(some kind of a crisis-perceived or real). Otherwise, you can and most likely will use your Ign function-even if use unconsciously.

So, in a "crisis" situation what gets eclipsed? Fi by Fe, Ne by Ni or Si by Se? I could describe few of such situations-in fact the Fi-Fe situation has already been described.

Did any of this help?

[Sol]

make a video interview so your type could be checked

[ScarlettLux]

Here's the thing about the ignoring and why it is named so.

Dimensionality of functions. Four dimensions(Ex, No, Si, Te), four functions, two modalities. So, let's take an ESI as an example, shall we? FiSeTiNe II TeNiFeSi or in other words: 4D functions are Fi and Si, 3D functions are Se and Fe, 2D are Ti and Ni and 1D are Ne and Te. There is a pyramidal hierarchy to the functions: people are most comfortable in using their strongest functions. It is not until ignoring function(Fe) until the person begins actually prefering the unconscious functions. Unconscious functions being TeNiFeSi yeah. So, you begin your information gathering and processing and expressing function at your base function: Fi. It is the strongest, most conscious function that determines (no exaggeration here) EVERYTHING you do. Everything is a reflection or due to ESI's relationship towards the object, yeah. After that, you semi-consciously use your Si-so don't be alarmed if you catch yourself in the hedonistic streaks, sunbathing or such. The point is that you use Si EXCLUSIVELY for your own benefit-if you were a SEI, you'd build your entire world(instead of your entire concept of entertainment) around it-meaning you'd use it when interacting with others fully consciously. After your Demo function(Si), you use Se-this is most visible when you are NOT in the comfortable situations, dealing with strangers, that sort of thing(otherwise, you revert to Si). This is best visible when some kind of emergency comes up-you end up using some weird mashup of Si and Se. Consciously, it's mostly Se, but don't be fooled. There's a lot of Si there as well. After Se we come down to the "IGNORING" function-namely Fe. Why is ignoring function named so? Here's a comely example:

Your significant other has made a blunder in a public eye. Your S.O won't back down and keeps on crusading against the masses? What do you do? Naturally so! Most Fi doms completely reject their social graces(which are not little by any standard!) and choose to backup their S.O. Maybe they will even try to disarm the situation by calming their S.O. down. But they won't do what an ESE would do(perhaps even SEI): ESE would apologise to the public for the unacceptable behaviour of their S.O. and practically perforate their relation because COMMUNITY MUST NOT BE HARMED! Do you see the difference? Naturally! And why is it so?

Because when put into such a situation, ESI's Fi completely eclipses their Fe and they go into a sort of a tunnel vision-even if they don't act like it usually. The same happens with ExE Fe and their Ign Fi, SxE Se and their Si. THAT is why it is called "Ignorant" situation. It's not that you completely ignore it 24 / 7-the hell no. It's too strong to be ignored! It's just that it goes vs an unfortunate adversary, a completely imbalanced matchup to be sure: vs the base function. It's only natural that it gets stomped. But it only gets stomped in the "EITHER OR" situation(some kind of a crisis-perceived or real). Otherwise, you can and most likely will use your Ign function-even if use unconsciously.

So, in a "crisis" situation what gets eclipsed? Fi by Fe, Ne by Ni or Si by Se? I could describe few of such situations-in fact the Fi-Fe situation has already been described.

Did any of this help?

I could not read any of this lmao.. I'm sorry.

[nondescript]

I could not read any of this lmao.. I'm sorry.

But why not? It can't be shortened because a problem needs to be identified, analysed, contrasted with a similar problem(so its properties become visible) and ultimately elaborated / defined. That is just what I did...or?

It contains some pretty insightful things .

[Satan]

But why not? It can't be shortened because a problem needs to be identified, analysed, contrasted with a similar problem(so its properties become visible) and ultimately elaborated / defined. That is just what I did...or?

It contains some pretty insightful things .

i found it hard to read as well. (ie i skipped it, i just tried rereading, and it still seems skippabled)

maybe you need to work on your presentation skills.

[Aylen]

i found it hard to read as well. (ie i skipped it, i just tried rereading, and it still seems skippabled)

maybe you need to work on your presentation skills.

My problem reading it was the presentation actually. It would have been easier to read broken down into smaller paragraphs and without so many words in all CAPS.

[squark]

It contains some pretty insightful things .

No. It doesn't.

[nondescript]

No. It doesn't.

Care to elaborate?

[Muddy]

I could not read any of this lmao.. I'm sorry.

I'm supposedly Ti ego and I've had some difficulty understanding some of @nondescripts post myself lol.

As I see it, he basically said that the ignoring function gets put on the back burner in most situations in favor of the base function. Because the ignoring function usually gets, well, ignored, this can lead to consequences when you ignore it when it turns out to be the more appropriate option, hence your Fi problems. However you can still use it when you are in a situation where there is a very clear and obvious demand for it, unlike the polr function which is completely helpless.

[Myst]

I'm supposedly Ti ego and I've had some difficulty understanding some of @nondescripts post myself lol.

As I see it, he basically said that the ignoring function gets put on the back burner in most situations in favor of the base function. Because the ignoring function usually gets, well, ignored, this can lead to consequences when you ignore it when it turns out to be the more appropriate option, hence your Fi problems. However you can still use it when you are in a situation where there is a very clear and obvious demand for it, unlike the polr function which is completely helpless.

I'd note again that the low Ti also factors into the issues along with that Fi ignoring. I would think the ignoring function usually easily contributes to the base function's needs, it is only ignored in the sense that it's a slave to the base by letting the base function have the products of the ignoring function shaped into its own agenda. But yes, when the base function does not need any contribution from the ignoring, it will get completely ignored and will appear weak then.

If you ask @Ananke, she still believes you are SEE.

Honestly on its own it means nothing what one person types another person. Not really very relevant reasoning to contribute to a final conclusion.

Lol about Ti egos not considering types 10 years later, @Satan has just posted in this thread, he's a prime example of such a Ti ego.

I agree on the low Ti, definitely 1D, nothing new there. As for charging into a conflict, I don't see that as any sort of decisive factor for typing, again. I've seen EIE do this. (Definitely EIE, not SEE) What we need to consider here is whether that in-the-moment thing is Se orientation without Ni or Fe orientation without Ti.

Why bother with weakish correlations of concrete examples and traits here when they will never result in an unambiguous typing?

[Myst]

Your statement is true, but Ananke isn't just any 'one person'. Not sure if you've gotten the opportunity to interact with her in your year here so far, since she hasn't been as active lately, but Ananke is a girl who self-types as SLE and is commonly accepted as SLE within the community. So her opinion regarding SL potentially typing as SLE is extremely relevant in this thread. Furthermore, Ananke has been vocal in the past about typing SL as differently than Beta/Beta NF and had typed her as SEE before, and Ananke's typings are ones I view as interesting and important to consider (even if not infallible).

Of course, not to imply that judgment based on consensus won't ever lead to errors, since it certainly can and often does, but being accepted by the people of a certain type AS that type, and having them see similarities first-hand between you and themselves, is important to consider. I hope you can see the relevance of a female SLE typing someone as not an SLE would make sense in this discussion. I mentioned Ananke with the hopes she may see this and weigh in on her opinion currently, but we will see if she appears or not.

I'm not wondering about SL being SLE because clearly she is not. But whatever other type any forum member has in mind for her on its own is not going to say much. The reasoning behind will say more.

You tell me then. What is the point in being here? If you can throw darts blindly in the dark, should you, or is it better not to throw the dart at all?

Proficiency increases over time.

I don't think proficiency in hitting the target by throwing darts blindly in the dark will improve over time. What's more, this isn't the only option to typing.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

I think you are EIE. You're a bit more assertive/wild than the typical IEI but yeah you don't really "roar" like an SLE or whatever. Also female SLEs are still females so they aren't going to come off as "strong" as the male ones. But I still can't see you as SLE at all. As they are more naturally logical, and you clearly have so much Fe.

I think you just need some attention , so /hug.

[ScarlettLux]

I think you are EIE. You're a bit more assertive/wild than the typical IEI but yeah you don't really "roar" like an SLE or whatever. Also female SLEs are still females so they aren't going to come off as "strong" as the male ones. But I still can't see you as SLE at all. As they are more naturally logical, and you clearly have so much Fe.

I think you just need some attention , so /hug.

Teehee yes, I did want attention *hug back. How does SLE seeking come across? Is it not also sort of ploying for that sort of affection/attention? I've always had a real problem with knowing how people feel about me unless they express it very obviously/intensely.. Aren't Fe Egos more skilled at this? I know I'm confident at displaying myself, but it's almost like I deeply crave it from others as well, to the point where it feels like my hidden agenda.. ?

[bolong]

Honestly though.. I've legitimately been considering it only because I focus SO much on (hidden agenda of EIE) and I seem to have a lot of weird related problems .. which could also be explained by EIE totally disregarding .. ? I think I just wanted to make a type thread haha. Because I still go between IEI and EIE as well.. so why not throw SLE into the mix?! I feel like if you all met me in person, you might believe the possibility more.

Nah I'm just a kitten trying to roar..

That's so weird, that you think your HA could be your main function. I just noticed something similar with one of my oldest friends, who I typed SEE bc it was so obvious to me. She is super, super Ni-seeking, hippie, pleasant to be around and knows tons of people. By chance we started talking about personality theory, and she told me with complete confidence, "I'm INFP!"

It really made me think about how we understand and project socionics - so much of it is based on how we choose to understand ourselves.

[Myst]

Honestly though.. I've legitimately been considering it only because I focus SO much on (hidden agenda of EIE) and I seem to have a lot of weird related problems .. which could also be explained by EIE totally disregarding .. ? I think I just wanted to make a type thread haha. Because I still go between IEI and EIE as well.. so why not throw SLE into the mix?! I feel like if you all met me in person, you might believe the possibility more.

Nah I'm just a kitten trying to roar..

EIE is definitely prone to having some issues with Fi/Ti. (It's really the low Ti and the ignored Fi together)

You are way too confident in Fe expression to be SLE. A bit too scattered to be Ti ego, as well

That's so weird, that you think your HA could be your main function. I just noticed something similar with one of my oldest friends, who I typed SEE bc it was so obvious to me. She is super, super Ni-seeking, hippie, pleasant to be around and knows tons of people. By chance we started talking about personality theory, and she told me with complete confidence, "I'm INFP!"

It really made me think about how we understand and project socionics - so much of it is based on how we choose to understand ourselves.

Yeah, that, and the way one conceptualizes typology theories. Mistaking HA for Base though is a relatively common mistake, or so I hear. I sometimes almost start to consider Ni base for myself, lol. I realize though that it's just me focusing on Ni stuff in that moment; also noticing some superficial similarities to other types that are not specific enough to type and are not at all to do with the core of Model A.

[ScarlettLux]

EIE is definitely prone to having some issues with Fi/Ti. (It's really the low Ti and the ignored Fi together)

You are way too confident in Fe expression to be SLE. A bit too scattered to be Ti ego, as well




Yeah, that, and the way one conceptualizes typology theories. Mistaking HA for Base though is a relatively common mistake, or so I hear. I sometimes almost start to consider Ni base for myself, lol. I realize though that it's just me focusing on Ni stuff in that moment; also noticing some superficial similarities to other types that are not specific enough to type and are not at all to do with the core of Model A.

Can you describe what you mean by low Fi/Ti issues? I agree I am scattered

[Myst]

Teehee yes, I did want attention *hug back. How does SLE seeking come across? Is it not also sort of ploying for that sort of affection/attention? I've always had a real problem with knowing how people feel about me unless they express it very obviously/intensely.. Aren't Fe Egos more skilled at this? I know I'm confident at displaying myself, but it's almost like I deeply crave it from others as well, to the point where it feels like my hidden agenda.. ?

I've heard EIEs say it before that they do want to get some of what they put in back from others. Perfectly reasonable as well. Maybe this is what you are talking about?

Can you describe what you mean by low Fi/Ti issues? I agree I am scattered

Boundary issues, regulating relationships, etc. What are your "weird Fi related problems" like?

[Aylen]

I am not going to comment on your type since I don't have much to go on. You weren't really around when I joined and you don't seem to frequent the forum as much as others.

I do know that SEE, IEE and ESE can feel right at home in a room full of betas and totally vibe with them. I am only going by people I know irl though. Social and sexual instincts might be in play too when this happens.

[ScarlettLux]

That's so weird, that you think your HA could be your main function. I just noticed something similar with one of my oldest friends, who I typed SEE bc it was so obvious to me. She is super, super Ni-seeking, hippie, pleasant to be around and knows tons of people. By chance we started talking about personality theory, and she told me with complete confidence, "I'm INFP!"

It really made me think about how we understand and project socionics - so much of it is based on how we choose to understand ourselves.

If she is SEE, her HA would actually be , not

[Suz]

That's so weird, that you think your HA could be your main function. I just noticed something similar with one of my oldest friends, who I typed SEE bc it was so obvious to me. She is super, super Ni-seeking, hippie, pleasant to be around and knows tons of people. By chance we started talking about personality theory, and she told me with complete confidence, "I'm INFP!"

It really made me think about how we understand and project socionics - so much of it is based on how we choose to understand ourselves.

This is such a great point. I'm pretty sure i typed myself IEE for a long time because of similar issues. I admire Ne strength a lot and maybe wished i was Ne-dom more than my really being Ne-dom . People did try to point that out to me along the way, but i stubbornly refused to listen until life made me realize it myself (along with other discrepancies).

[nondescript]

Also, I should really stop derailing. It goes vs my beliefs, but my wishes to speak my stances are so strong!

Meh derailing trollmaster 9000.

[darya]

Hey Scarlett : )

I have no strong evidence about your type, just wanted to chime in with observations of your writing style over time. There's something in the way you make new threads, new inquairies about your type and love life that is so random and with a happy go lucky attitude - like you don't have a specific agenda behind it, a specific goal you want to reach with these threads, you're just kinda entertaining yourself. Me for example, whenever I make a thread, I have a strong opinion and want to convince everybody of it, so if I'd for example made a thread "Am I SLE?" that would mean "I am sure I am SLE at this moment in time (which may very well change in a few minutes ) and you better all agree with me mofos" And if I'd be somehow subtle about my intentions, it would be just not to appear too obnoxious.

It seems like you don't particularly care where the threads will go and what type people may suggest for you - , it won't hurt your feelings either way : )You are also always looking for outside imput almost without reservations, it seems you are very dependant on it - like if enough people would say you must be SLE (the same goes for some other types), you would seriously consider it. This kind of unassumingness is something unusual for Beta NF's - and again, speaks against image concern.

Things I think you're definitely not: IEI, SLE
Possible: SEE/EIE > Alpha SF (i know, i know lol)

As far as I see you, there's a strong chance you're SEE (just the less obviously extroverted kind) and it's the Se and Fi enthusiastic combination that's giving the false impression of Fe. EIE is not a bad typing, but there's always this nagging voice in my head that you're a sensor - the way you approach the theory, talk about your life...

[Myst]

EIE is not a bad typing, but there's always this nagging voice in my head that you're a sensor - the way you approach the theory, talk about your life...

What is that way like, other than what she's displayed in the recent threads - those are the only ones I've seen. Can you specify this a bit more? I'm asking because I'm thinking of a friend who's most definitely beta NF and she talks in a way that can come off as pretty "simplistic" first but she has strong Ni actually. Beats mine easily heh. And very Fe, as well, no way that it's just demonstrative Fe, too consistently there to be demonstrative.

[ScarlettLux]

Fuck you Mega, honestly. So fucking rude. GTFO if you can't contribute anything constructive or worthwhile without resorting to calling me "retarded".

[Muddy]

Fuck you Mega, honestly. So fucking rude. GTFO if you can't contribute anything constructive or worthwhile without resorting to calling me "retarded".

Se demonstrative?

[Myst]

Se demonstrative?

I don't think so, what specifically seems demonstrative about this?

PS: lol about analysing SL's and Mega's drama
PS2: I'm not saying it's ok to call SL a retard

[Mega]

Fuck you Mega, honestly. So fucking rude. GTFO if you can't contribute anything constructive or worthwhile without resorting to calling me "retarded".

I said "maybe", there's a 50% chance you are so there's a 50% you aren't, stop supposing things.

Morever retardation is about being delayed, it has been 10 years mate, you sure are delayed (if you assume the "maybe" refer to the retarded half).

I'm doing my Master's degree in OT, I've always excelled at academics.. I think I come across differently here as I don't show that side of me..

What exactly are YOU doing, Mega?

PhD in systems engineering.
Morever grades are there to testify that somebody has learned (I won't say understood because understanding something is above grades) what was teached to him in a 30~ hrs course or so. If you don't work your grades will be shit, it doesn't mean you are less intelligent but it does mean that the subject didn't interest you/that you didn't put the effort of learning.
I have passed nearly every year after being 15 at the 50% limit, then I switched to the working hat 2 years ago and I'll finish 1st of my mastery degree and will be doing a PhD.

I have a friend who is a genius, he's a university dropout, I have never encountered someone as smart as him. I had another acquaintance who is smart (imo), his goal was to become a physicist scientist so he figured out the simpliest way was to work a lot, he did so, finished first every year and (I haven't checked) but it wouldn't surprise me if he's doing a PhD.

The fact that you think intelligence is related to having good grades makes me want to think that there's something you've yet to understand, which I think comes to mind (imo) rather easily once you have critically thought about life for about 10s.

[Myst]

The fact that you think intelligence is related to having good grades

IQ and academic performance are actually quite well correlated, though it certainly is not at 1.00.

[ScarlettLux]

I type in a very, very colloquial way... this doesn't in any way, mean I am less "intuitive" or intelligent.

[Myst]

I type in a very, very colloquial way... this doesn't in any way, mean I am less "intuitive" or intelligent.

That's part of what I was referring to when talking about my beta NF friend a couple posts above

[ScarlettLux]

I'm doing my Master's degree in OT, I've always excelled at academics.. I think I come across differently here as I don't show that side of me..

What exactly are YOU doing, Mega?

[darya]

Wtf... really?!

Anyway, I wasn't equating sensor with simple/dumb in any way. If anything, the following explanation will sound simplistic. Intuitives I know overanalyze and overthink theory in a way sensors don't. It's like a feeling of spiriling more and more into the air of theoretical, with nothing to ground it, Be it when talking about human relations or something technical , depends what they're interested in. It's just a distinct feeling of people who are removed from imidiate physical world and not in the moment- it's always about something about the future, how the future should be or will be, or how the present moment could be different etc..There's a severe lack of practical implication if you put a bunch of intuitives together, the talk will *always* somehow end up in nihilistic philosophy/weird theories/theories no one gives a shit about . Intuitives are also in most cases way more offbeat and eccentric in the way they think, with more unusual thinking process and quirkier outlook on the world, which happens because they overthink everything .When I say overthink, that's got nothing to do with intelligence. You can have a bunch of theories, novel ideas and think yourself to death, and still be stupid and all your ideas don't make senes, or are just plain wrong and unusable.

With EIE's I know, when you talk to them for a longer time irl, there's no doubt they're intuitive - they're all about the future and how things should be and what's wrong (LIE's on the other hand can be more tricky from my experiece).

Whenever I spend too much time with my intuitive friends and I sit down with some sensors, it's like...thank fucking god someone put a stop on this endless, useless and time-consuming theorizing. So I actually prefer sensors as friends and partners.

What is that way like, other than what she's displayed in the recent threads - those are the only ones I've seen. Can you specify this a bit more? I'm asking because I'm thinking of a friend who's most definitely beta NF and she talks in a way that can come off as pretty "simplistic" first but she has strong Ni actually. Beats mine easily heh. And very Fe, as well, no way that it's just demonstrative Fe, too consistently there to be demonstrative.

To me, Scarlett's response to the guy that gave her more theoretical explanation, is unusual for intuitive person or for someone who's been on this forum for so long, and is trying to get to the bottom of their typing process. It just shows she's not interested in this topic in particular depth, which is unusual for Beta NF's I know. That's got nothing to do with her being unintellegent, it just shows disinterest. I'd say the same if someone would try to explain the theory behind airplanes to me- cause I don't give a shit why they manage to fly.

I know EIE's are supposed to be THE type that thinks they're every other type and just keep circling around, but I am skeptical of that. Imo, intuitives usually know very well they are intuitives, as soon as they grasp what the concept of intuition means. It's some sensors that struggle with the understanding of this devide, as they are just so "on the ground" they don't even get that some other weirdos are not : ) The intuitive friends that are familiar with the theory are also very good at singling out other intuitives in person, while sensors usually resort to outside markers of some sort..."oh, this person wears eccentric glasses or goes to such and such school, or plays an weird instrument...he must be intuitive....". While with intuitives, it's more like an intuitive feel that someone is on an alternative reality like you. That's ofc impossible to do over internet. Besides, intuition fails us sometimes...ok, more then sometimes : ).


I also personaly have never met a truly dumb Beta NF - they're usually above average in intelligence (subjective but whatever). But ofc, one is always dumber than some other, so if you're only hanging out with half geniuses (who are usually NT's ime) or you yourself have genius IQ, than I'm sure everybody else seems dumb in comparison : D Some people here are also so fucking pretentious (I'm looking at you, E5's), that gossiping or being concerned in what you wear makes you an imbecile in their eyes. Whatever, if that makes them feel good about themselves, so be it. Each of us have our own criteria and ways of making ourselves feel better than others anyway.

There's also many different ways of being intelligent. Ti users probably find everybody who sucks at Ti dumb , but at the same time I could find somebody dumb, because he can't put together two sentences about the message of some movie we've watched together, or the big picture message completely flies over their head, because they suck at reading human condition or symbolicism. But I don't, cause often these people are way more intelligent than me in other fields. So Ti-ing all over the place is just a certain kind of intelligence and if someone can only see value in their kind of intelligence that shows dumbness by itself.

Again, I'm really not trying to say Scarlett isn't EIE, it's more than possible she is and there are some cultural differences at play here. I'm just pointing out things that don't make sense for me perfectly with seeing her as EIE. There are a bunch of things that don't click for other typings as well.

Can I get a star for the most diplomatic post toward every single human now ?

[Myst]

Wtf... really?!

Yeah wtf.

Anyway, I wasn't equating sensor with simple/dumb in any way. If anything, the following explanation will sound simplistic.

I totally get what you are getting at but depending on circumstances I think you may fail to detect right away that detachment from the tangible world.. at least here online? Also, on the surface you yourself have certainly appeared as sounding all very practical and whatnot, to me, in certain circumstances. SL does mention that she will gladly talk about weird theory stuff when she gets deep into talking with someone.

Btw LIE's, I have no problem seeing them as intuitive, for some reason. I guess this is all influenced by our own worldviews

To me, Scarlett's response to the guy that gave her more theoretical explanation, is unusual for intuitive person or for someone who's been on this forum for so long, and is trying to get to the bottom of their typing process. It just shows she's not interested in this topic in particular depth, which is unusual for Beta NF's I know. That's got nothing to do with her being unintellegent, it just shows disinterest. I'd say the same if someone would try to explain the theory behind airplanes to me- cause I don't give a shit why they manage to fly.

The thing is, that guy, nondescript, was giving an explanation that was hardly readable by most people, confirmed intuitives included, because of the lack of paragraphs and other formatting issues. I had no problem reading it as I'm not sensitive to such problems but I found it was not really very theoretical in the way an intuitive would write it (nondescript is a S type). I would not use this incident as valid proof for any sort of typing.

I know EIE's are supposed to be THE type that thinks they're every other type and just keep circling around, but I am skeptical of that. Imo, intuitives usually know very well they are intuitives, as soon as they grasp what the concept of intuition means. It's some sensors that struggle with the understanding of this devide, as they are just so "on the ground" they don't even get that some other weirdos are not : )

Hahaha you got that right, I had no idea such weirdos are out there like you intuitives. I mean I did assume they worked the same way I do...

I also personaly have never met a truly dumb Beta NF

I have, actually, I used to hang out a lot with a pretty dumb EIE in middle school. And I don't mean lack of organization in her thinking or low Ti in general, simply seemed dumb overall. Though she was certainly smarter than me at how to manipulate people, lol. Anyway we did get along well still, she was fun enough.

There's also many different ways of being intelligent. Ti users probably find everybody who sucks at Ti dumb

Actually no, I don't do that.. initially I could get the wrong impression of someone if they are lacking the most basic organization in putting their thoughts together but I do figure it out alright over time if they are actually smart and then I have no problem with such superficial issues. Low Ti or not, disorganization or not, those people can be incredibly smart and I admire them for that specific brand of intelligence they have.

Again, I'm really not trying to say Scarlett isn't EIE, it's more than possible she is and there are some cultural differences at play here. I'm just pointing out things that don't make sense for me perfectly with seeing her as EIE. There are a bunch of things that don't click for other typings as well.

Can I get a star for the most diplomatic post toward every single human now ?

Sure, your standpoint makes sense. I don't see the need to worry about having everything click together, only the relevant issues need to be sorted, the rest is just weak and ambiguous correlations

And you can have that star yea

[darya]

I totally get what you are getting at but depending on circumstances I think you may fail to detect right away that detachment from the tangible world.. at least here online? Also, on the surface you yourself have certainly appeared as sounding all very practical and whatnot, to me, in certain circumstances. SL does mention that she will gladly talk about weird theory stuff when she gets deep into talking with someone.

Heh, I think what you're picking on is more pragmatism and realism than practicality, things I speak of and am interested in are predominantly about human relations and society at large. But thanks anyway : )

The thing is, that guy, nondescript, was giving an explanation that was hardly readable by most people, confirmed intuitives included, because of the lack of paragraphs and other formatting issues. I had no problem reading it as I'm not sensitive to such problems but I found it was not really very theoretical in the way an intuitive would write it (nondescript is a S type). I would not use this incident as valid proof for any sort of typing.

Yeah, that was a bad example, It was questionable and difficult to understand, but I'd for sure ask more questions or at least try to read it through - you know, as a supposed Ti lover and all that. That's not the main thing I based it on though. It's pure feeling I got from Scarlett's posts, replies and talking to her. Apparently I'm not the only one. For one, I don't understand how one after all these years of being exposed to theory which speaks about humans, their relations and psychology, and being NF at that, doesn't know if they are a female IEI or female SLE .That's just incomprehensible for me and puts the basic understanding of theory under huge question.

And second, It's not even the topics one talks about, it's about how they talk about it. Whatever, we're not going to come together here - my intuitivedar may be broken : P and you're right, over the internet it's just a waste of time. I'd be more than happy if Scarlett would make a video.

As I have nothing more worthwile to contribute but my own impressions, I will now see myself out of this debate.

[darya]

Oh and yeah....where exactly does the idea about ESE's (as alpha SF's) not being image conscious comes from? They're like people who most of all try to look and act perfect at all times. And they're not particularly humble or always genuine either.

[The Ineffable]

Oh and yeah....where exactly does the idea about ESE's (as alpha SF's) not being image conscious comes from? They're like people who most of all try to look and act perfect at all times. And they're not particularly humble or always genuine either.

OK, well perhaps it is just a matter of proper terms. What if we use "character" instead of "image", makes more sense? Whoever keeps the type descriptions in mind, and the difference between Alpha SF and Beta NF, would know what it is about, it's all there. However, you are right that "image" is quite an ambiguous term and greatly depends on the context, it may mean both "looks/aspect" or "character/persona", with the later being used here, denothing this Beta NF particularity.

Re genuineness: not sure how can we define it to accomodate them all - but I think Alpha SFs are rather prone to tell what they feel in a straightforward manner, to the point of being naïve or deconspire themselves when not intended, while Beta NFs use strategies for certain impacts. Sure, they are not pragmatist either, I'm not saying that.

[ScarlettLux]

Wow hahah people really still don't think I'm EIE. I honestly never knew until now people had doubts about that.. seems like SEE is the main type being considered, and now ESE is being suggested..

I really, really, really am not ESE. I am the anti-thesis of ESE, imo. I have strong and very, very weak that manifests in itself being very concerned / uncomfortable with health, food, day to day activities.. Unable to relax, unable to take care of these "trivial matters" as I see them... I can't understand the sensations in my body and I'm hyper aware as a result, I have had bouts of hypochondria and such. Also, I completely resonate with Beta quadra themes -- very passionate, conquering despite suffering, the drama + emotionalism..

To be perfectly honest I *KNOW* I'm extraverted Beta and yeah, I do tend to come across random I suppose and happy go lucky... but that's when I'm actually happy in life. I've recently gone through a very dark time in my life and now this is the true me, I suppose.

Sorry, I'll reply more later.

[Myst]

Wow hahah people really still don't think I'm EIE. I honestly never knew until now people had doubts about that.. seems like SEE is the main type being considered, and now ESE is being suggested..

I really, really, really am not ESE. I am the anti-thesis of ESE, imo. I have strong and very, very weak that manifests in itself being very concerned / uncomfortable with health, food, day to day activities.. Unable to relax, unable to take care of these "trivial matters" as I see them... I can't understand the sensations in my body and I'm hyper aware as a result, I have had bouts of hypochondria and such. Also, I completely resonate with Beta quadra themes -- very passionate, conquering despite suffering, the drama + emotionalism..

To be perfectly honest I *KNOW* I'm extraverted Beta and yeah, I do tend to come across random I suppose and happy go lucky... but that's when I'm actually happy in life. I've recently gone through a very dark time in my life and now this is the true me, I suppose.

Sorry, I'll reply more later.

What you wrote here does sound EIE enough. I still don't see SLE tho'.

Also, I was talking to someone about Fe demonstrative and EIE > SEE is more likely by what we discussed. According to them, there are no SEE's that use Fe in the way you do, as your Fe is very vibrant, persistent and somewhat explosive in nature. In the case of SEE and IEE, in comparison to EIE's Fe which is too bright from the POV of Fe PoLR, it's like there's a shade over Fe demonstrative emotionality so it's dimmer but for that reason more pleasant to the Fe PoLR types.

One more thing, I saw your photos in an older thread, you VI as EIE or at least beta NF pretty much, tho' I'm not big on/am skeptical about VI in most cases, I do have a clear enough opinion on yours.

And no worries take your time with the replies but yea I would definitely like to hear from you about my earlier post Even though I do lean towards EIE for you, I'm still interested in that.

[mu4]

No? LOL

EIE