Adam (ILE): At work I have a colleague - he is the head of the prepress department, by TIM - ESI. We're conflictors in Socionics ... hell, I could already feel this from the first day of work. To my deep regret, we have to work very closely, or rather, I pass on project assignments to him and receive already finished layouts. Frictions started from the very beginning - he seemed to be a total bore, who's always finds faults with minor things and is only looking for excuses to quarrel, and that he doesn't understand very simple things and will ask such stupid questions. At the same time, I saw that he was a specialist in his field, and his amazing attentiveness to specifics (introverted sensing type, after all) has saved me on many occasions. But after every meeting, I would leave the room steaming with frustration and anger. I couldn't understand what exactly irritated him, and wrote it off to him having a difficult personality. For three years I've agonized like this. A year ago I started studying Socionics, and, naturally, started typing everyone I knew. When the turn came to him - damn, he's an ESI, a typical one - everything fits! So where does all the friction come from? Simple: when I explain things to him in my usual ILE manner, skipping some seemingly obvious things and saving a lot for the later saying "We'll see how it goes" all of this hits his "vulnerable" function. Next, I thought: what can be done about this? what is his suggestive function? It's "logic of actions", Te. Ok, even though this is my subconscious function, lets try something different. At the next meeting, for which I carefully prepared, I turned into a tedious bore myself. I went through every little detail, describing it, while slowing down the rate of my speech 2-3 times for my ESI colleague (from my end, this felt like a perversion of some kind). Eventually, I notice a satisfied expression on his face, and even some kind of tranquility there. Wow! I finished my speech, he graciously shook his head, from which I understood that I have finally found the least painful way of transferring information to him. From that time on, I prepare for each meeting as if I'm studying for an exam.
One more small thing to mention - hurrying him up is useless. I mean volitionally pressuring him. He would simply "clash his horns" with you, even start shouting (volitional extraverted sensing), and from there nothing could be done. Ok, l have tried a different approach. Now, with a serious expression on my face, I tell him: "All hopes rest on you now. The client has asked the layout to be finished by 3:00pm tomorrow. Please pay special attention to this project. Thank you in advance." Of course, me may mutter something critical about the client, but this doesn't concern me - I leave with a clear conscience and with certainty that he will do everything possible to make it on time. This is all.
Lytov: I can give brief recommendations for ILEs on how to get along with ESIs. ESI is a sensing type and judges people by "appearance" i.e. the externals. To calm the ESI, create a stable reputation, your own "legend", and periodically demonstrate its success. For example: "I know how to do this-and-this. I consider this to be my calling and I achieve significant success at what I do." Success, attainment of some concrete results - are the most important criteria for the ESI and their suggestive function. However, if the ESI doesn't see any tangible results coming out of your activities, then he or she will start feeling nervous. Thus create an image of a successful person pursuing some tangible goal. Don't try to explain everything to ESIs with introverted logic. They react to it as negatively as Ne types react to any sensory impositions and pressuring. ESIs absorb logic in moderate amounts, in form of explanations of "how it works". Regarding everything else, the ESI reacts to a person positively if he or she a) acts predictably for the ESI b) is so influential, that he can himself direct this predictability, or at least create and impression that everything is under control, and share a part of this predictable world with the ESI. That's it. So what's so difficult here? The difficulty here is that an ILE possesses a large amount of knowledge, several times higher than what an ILE is actually able to control. This leads to conflicts only at very short personal distances. Most usually, the ESI watches the ILE from afar and thinks to him or herself: "Just as I thought - he's a windbag", and doesn't move any closer than this. The ESI may casually talk with the ILE, exchange some jokes and anecdotes, but won't get any more serious.
In a professional sense within a closed group, the goals of ILE and ESI are sufficiently different. The ESI doesn't hesitate to openly talk about why such-and-such "tasty" project was given to someone else and not to the ESI. The worst the ILE can say here (which he usually does) is to say something akin "it was done in all fairness" or "for everyone equal treatment". The ESI has a completely different sense of what is fair - if he has invested the efforts, there should be some benefit, some positive result. If this is what he sees happening around him, the ESI will be a good worker. If the ESI sees that people who are "less deserving" in his eyes are getting promoted - he will actively oppose this, if he has powers - then formally, if he doesn't have powers - then informally, through private conversations i.e. try to prepare the ground, because sooner or later the balance of power may change. The ILE thinking about the project can completely forget about personnel and relations - the ESI never forgets this.
Artebast (ILE): I'm very familiar with only one person of type ESI - that is my mother. I won't describe our relationship here, as relations mother-daughter are responsible for a large share of our relational complexities rather than our Socionics TIMs. On the whole, for the ILE having an ESI mother is not the worst situation - there is some support over weak functions, plus ESIs are usually caring people, such that I didn't feel lacking in love and care as a child. Now we have a rather smooth relationship, but at a large distance. There is no question, of course, about any kind of personal understanding and closeness. There is my attitude "mother cannot be abandoned" and respect - this is how we keep together.
As a distance, ESIs make a good impression. These are people who seem to be "as is needed and appropriate", that is, they evoke the thought "this is how a woman or a man should be". Everything in their life is conducted correctly, with integrity, and without excess. They are just the right measure sociable, and just the right measure beautiful. In past, I've had several opportunities to begin relationships with ESIs, but due to painful Fi and a sense of psychological discomfort I soon feel that I cannot open up with this person - that I won't be accepted as I am, that we're on "different frequencies". Communication with ESI is full of small talk - there is a list of acceptable conversation topics, and as soon as you step a little bit beyond this, the other is shocked: "what is he/she talking about?!" Thus, our communication turns out to be empty.
I have also worked with a few ESIs - as teachers, scientific director, and the head of our department. In all cases I did all the work myself, after specifying with the ESI what result is needed, which in itself is not easy because they are not keen on explaining anything. Here, the main thing is to not talk about the process of how you're working, but to show ESI the result. And again - keep all communication on formal level.
A few words for why ILEs shouldn't try to build serious relations with ESIs:
** If living together, the element of surprise is completely lost from ILE's life. Arranging pleasant surprises for the ESI doesn't work - she gets scared, and even if she liked the surprise the first reaction is such that there is no wish to ever surprise her again. If the ILE wants to travel with or without the ESI to some new place, a huge amount of time is spent on explaining that "it's not dangerous". Any initiative is extinguished by a frightened look: "why do you need this?" This is a disaster for irrational ILE for whom life consists of finding good chances and opportunities and opening new horizons. Turning his own life into a swamp, even if a stable one, is not an option.
** Cheerfulness. There is a feeling that ESIs are afraid to enjoy life. They think that once they relax even a little and show some weakness, the villain-fate will immediately trip them over. "Everything is too good - expect trouble." ESIs prefer to be always alert and apprehensive about something. As a result, it never happens that the ESI is fully satisfied; he/she will always point out some negative - as a "preventative measure".
** How ESIs like to pose themselves as victims is entirely another story. This goes according to the principle: "I will suffer in silence for now, but when it becomes unbearable I will tell him everything - let him feel guilty!" This results in something akin to "You're entertaining yourself here - and I've been sick for a week!" Their partner had to guess. While all these various kind of sufferings aren't needed in Alpha quadra (and it would be interesting to know who needs them!) And if the ESI is enjoying herself, it's often done quietly, to herself. This makes the ILE doubt whether he or she is needed at all. The ILE expresses these doubts out loud - and receives a lecture about sense of duty. It turns out we were living together not because we "wanted" this, but because "it is necessary". Wonderful.
** And another point. With ESI's involvement, ILE's circle of friends starts to rapidly shrink, because the ESI carefully filters out "wrong kind" of friends. But the ILE is not the LIE, and is capable of filtering people himself. The ILE has to strain over ethical functions to establish new friendships - here the ESI is of no help, as she filters out people, but doesn't introduce anyone new in their place - usually her own circle of friends is very small. The ILE instead needs someone who would find contacts for him. Here again we have a swamp.
In general, these two types can have good casual friendly relations. They could even be good colleagues and work together given some effort from the ILE, but starting a family together categorically should not be considered, imho. For casual friendships TIM is not very important, thus "conflictors" may socialize in the same circle of people. The problem is that neither is oriented at expansion of their social circle (or rather, ESI isn't oriented at this - while ILE doesn't know how). I, for example, can meet up with people whom I barely know and go out to some cafe. The ESI meets this with hostility: "Why are you wasting your time on him? Who is he to you?" And also tries to figure out how a person is useful. If it turns out that with nothing, ESI's disturbance has no limit. The ESI needs tight, trusting relationships within a narrow circle of people, and no spreading out. While I don't understand what the problem is - for me, this feeds my Fe, and it's interesting to learn how other people live. What for ILE is only a conversation, for the ESI is already "a relationship" that needs to be carefully evaluated and built.
Alen (SLI): I know a mother and daughter of types ESI and ILE, respectively. They fight almost every evening right before my eyes. The mother tries to push through - the daughter resists and clashes with her. To her mother's shouting she responds by becoming even more stubborn. The mother accuses her of not being loving, which in daughter evokes a strange kind of obstinacy. Yet, the ESI doesn't make any compliments herself, only carps and criticizes her. For example, the daughter isn't doing something that she doesn't want to do. For the ESI it's not important. It has to be done, therefore do it. There are no objective reasons to do what the ESI asks - both ILE and I (SLI) see this. But the ESI has her own rules and any violations are strictly punished. ESI starts to push for it. ILE resists. I explain to the ILE that she should try to compromise and do what her mother asks her to do. She agrees and meets ESI's demands. And guess what happens? Instead of quietly taking a step forward, praising her, giving some positive feedback, the ESI starts to reprimand her ILE daughter again, that she hasn't listened to her the first time and done it sooner. Conflict restarts. The ESI simply doesn't understand how she is messing up; she presses her own model of life and doesn't move an inch.
Ivan (ILE): ESI - is pure evil. The essence of all nine circles of hell. Every word infuriates and every look incinerates. To sleep, eat, shit, screw with someone else's mind, and get more and more money - this is ESI's life. "I have lived my life and will live out yours" - this is the philosophy of Dreiser. The tale of "The Fisherman and the Golden Fish" is the most accurate description of this type; however much money you give them - it's never enough. They should be sent to inhabit a separate planet along with LIEs. My type is ILE, but thanks to my ESI mother, I've become more alike an LII. Because the only way to live next to Dreiser is to become a robot. And even then, you'll get billed for electricity and oil. ESI's overprotection is worse than getting no care at all. From my ESI mother I often hear: "Where have you been? Why did you come home so late? You're out entertaining yourself, while I'm sitting here, worrying." Next to ESIs people don't live - they merely exist on ESI's conditions. Until 15-16 years of age this is fine, but later such questions begin to infuriate. And to call ESIs "sweet and caring," despite the fact that ESIs are "aggressors", is stupid. I would have nicknamed this type not "The Guardian" but "The Inquisitor" ...
The ILE is sent to get education where his ESI mother wants him to go - after all, the mother knows better what her children need than the children know themselves. Of course, every child dreams of working at a factory until the end of his life and supporting his parents on a meager wage. A person with IQ near 130 - for certain! "What did you think? Everyone lives like this! Everyone!" therefore you should go and get a job "like everyone else". This "like everyone else" has followed me for the rest of my life. If you protest such treatment, there is always the response: "But I do so much for you, try hard and work so much!" No, you don't do it for us - you do it for yourself. The ESI thinks that she is doing something for others, but instead she is acting out of sheer selfishness and only pretends to help others. You cannot do something for the good of the person, without asking his or her opinion on the matter. With ESI - you just get put before the fact. Now only try doing something wrong - the reproaches and the piercing-black trampling reprimanding gaze will pursue you for weeks. This is not including the scandals and hysterics.
The ESI thinks that I am a 100% slacker who spends entire day on the internet, when men should spend 18 hours at work every day and come back home only to catch some sleep - this is her logic. A couple times I have tried to follow her advice and apply where she suggested. Twice the offer turned out to be a hoax, since she cannot distinguish a real job offer from a rip-off. Though her dual Jack, however, will take up such junk. When I got a job, the conditions were horrible. All of my attempts to change something were in vain. Things got to regular nosebleeds and headaches, not to mention frequent injuries due to my natural absent-mindedness. But this doesn't worry the ESI - "You've finally found a normal job - now don't even think about quitting!" All of my attempts to explain our differences to her with the aid of Socionics are met with: "Again, you're pestering me with this nonsense?" She doesn't understand that people have other values in life, and that not everyone lives on her templates and stereotype. To me it seems that she doesn't understand anything - and doesn't want to understand. My results and achievements in life would have been much greater without her control and her attempts to instill her views into me. I wanted to study computer science, but she told me: "You just want to sit in front of your computer your whole life! Go and learn how to build rockets to get a job at the local military factory, and you'll turn out into a normal person." Sometimes I want to curse, but hold myself back - she's my mother after all. Moving out is an impossibility at this point, thus I live with her as if in a high-security prison. Only ILI and LIE are able to live with an ESI - the former has no will, the later lives at work. The funny thing is that at age 21, I already had a "midlife crisis". It seemed to me that I'm already at least 35 years old, and I was greatly upset because of all of the missed opportunities. Indeed, there was a great number of these. I could have studied not in a secondary school, but in a specialized school with deepened subjects of mathematics or physics. Then go into science, and by age 22 already have a degree and do research. But no, "live like normal people" they said. Work at stupid jobs, drink beer, buy a car, like your father - why the hell do I need a car if I'm still bumping into furniture (scateredness is a constant companion of an intuitive type).
Dreiser is an "introverted Caesar". If she considers some space to be "her territory" then everyone who lives in it have to live by her rules and regulations, whether they like it or not. In the type descriptions it clearly says: "[ESIs] don't adapt themselves to people, but impose their own line of conduct". In other words, they don't at all consider someone else's opinion, and there is no sense in trying to argue or to challenge them. I can tell you with 100% confidence that at least 60% of the Criminal Code was created for people like LIE (another 25% for SLEs) by people like Dreiser. For most people the "10 Commandments" are enough to live their lives, but not for Jacks and Dreisers. The Alpha quadra has a developed sense of justice (it is justice, not miserly selfish rules of Dreiser). Beta over-bends the stick somewhat, but even SLEs with their temper don't deliberately cause discomfort to other people. Delta - is the most "correct" responsible quadra. Gamma is quadra of charlatans (Jack) and dictators (Dreiser). About SEEs and ILIs I won't even continue. Studying Socionics and making personal observations, most people who come to dislike LIEs dislike them for their unscrupulousness. While ESIs go unnoticed - they sit at home more, and dictate only on their territory. LIE and ESI is that rare case when minus plus minus becomes a plus. Most often the couples ESI-LIE are perceived as "policeman-scoundrel" rather than "wife and husband".
Her health is always getting worse, and I'm always to blame. I am to blame that I don't do as she wishes, I am to blame that she worries (even though I'm not 10 any more), I am to blame that my father is SEE (mirror types have regular quarrels). Her response is always the same: her son sucks, her husband is awful - she's so great but unappreciated, and without her we'll die of hunger within a week (most importantly!). Sometimes I wish I was never born. I just want to cross them out of my life, become that bastard child who has abandoned his parents. In this sense I envy LIEs - they can do this, I cannot. In these relations, the worst thing is that it's impossible to get any help and support, quite the reverse. This suppresses even more. Instead of heading towards your goals, the road to which is already very difficult, you also have a heavy weight strapped to you. This is like moving through a swamp carrying something heavy and useless on your shoulders. You can't throw it away, and the path is very long. It destroys your morale. Very often I go through periods of depression.
Originally Posted by Muddytextures
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