How do ISTps experience Si

[dbmmama]

Well, both your posts kind of reminded me of something else: context. Think about it - you're lying in bed. It's night. You should be sleepy and sleeping. But there's a far off noise, or a bug buzzing around your head, or it's too hot, etc., etc. Point being - you can't fall asleep.

But think about going on a roadtrip. You've been active all day taking in new sights and stressing your mind, but now you're driving somewhere - to a destination, home, or a hotel, but it's late. You're not driving, but even though the car is jostling you, and music's on the stereo, and maybe people are talking, you find yourself nodding off.

Why? What's the difference between these two scenarios? Maybe this isn't an airtight example, but it shows the importance of context, something I'm half-proposing is connected with Si. In one case you expect something, so your Si is held hostage by it. In the other, you have no expections and you find your Si adopting to the flow around you. What I'm tempted to say is that I'm learning how to let go of my contextual expectations so I can 'liberate' my Si.

Is this dominant-function behaviour or something else? I guess maybe I'm trying to figure that out.

why is everything you guys saying have to do with Si? this is just how life works, to me.

could this kind of example be something that a different base would do to "liberate" IT? or is this really just how Si does it?

[marooned]

okay, so this would mean in every situation, while the situation itself is changing (as everything is constantly changing), you would have to identify your changing expectations (within the changing contexts), and let go of them to get back into the "flow."

So in my example about the hiking and the bugs and the heavy backpack... the expectation is not being pestered by the bugs, and not being weighed down by the backpack, and not being in a state of physical discomfort... then the "flow" cannot be found because the current context/situation is not being acknowledged and accepted.

So the situation/context is always changing... and your expectations are always changing... and you have to be able to somehow align these things so that you flow along rather than getting caught up in the expectations, or stuck on what the context/situation was before it changed.

I think I'll stop... I think I'm about to ramble!

[force my hand]

okay, so this would mean in every situation, while the situation itself is changing (as everything is constantly changing), you would have to identify your changing expectations (within the changing contexts), and let go of them to get back into the "flow."

So in my example about the hiking and the bugs and the heavy backpack... the expectation is not being pestered by the bugs, and not being weighed down by the backpack, and not being in a state of physical discomfort... then the "flow" cannot be found because the current context/situation is not being acknowledged and accepted.

So the situation/context is always changing... and your expectations are always changing... and you have to be able to somehow align these things so that you flow along rather than getting caught up in the expectations, or stuck on what the context/situation was before it changed.

I think I'll stop... I think I'm about to ramble!

Analyzing it too much can cause confusion, but yeah, that's kind of what I'm thinking. If you're doing a normal activity, when something goes wrong it's a big deal (i.e. the mud puddle) because you're operating on a certain set of expectations (clean clothes are important for my social image). When you're in situation that is a stark contrast to your typical mode (i.e. swamp) your expectations change and you're able to adapt to them better.

Kind of like a stereotypical Judo move - instead of fighting an opponent's attack, you assume it and use them for your own beneficial end. In the larger picture maybe you get a bruise while you're doing it, but you don't care because of the context and the overall result of 'defeating' that person.

And this is just one example out of a possible many. I chose something that I felt was explicit... I think the majority of what goes on inside is far more subtle. Little adjustments constantly throughout my day to keep me on 'top' of the external world, and all the obstacles in the form of situations and people that present themselves.

As dbmama said, maybe this isn't Si related at all. But I think there is an aspect of personality in here as I know of people who aren't very good at aligning themselves with the changing conditions. Maybe Si is physical-sensing. Maybe Fe is emotionally-atmospheric. Just random thoughts.

[marooned]

Hmm, I think at least part of that must be related to . But it's hard to tell with these things.

[dbmmama]

As dbmama said, maybe this isn't Si related at all. But I think there is an aspect of personality in here as I know of people who aren't very good at aligning themselves with the changing conditions. Maybe Si is physical-sensing. Maybe Fe is emotionally-atmospheric. Just random thoughts.

well, i wasn't necessarily saying it isn't Si related. just wondering if this kind of context relates to other functions as well. because what you described seems pretty normal to me.

[JuJu]

Currently, I'm dating someone who's Si dominant (ISFp...) Some things that I notice:

**Extreme sensitivity to changes in temperature and how temps alter internal states, i.e. A/C 'way' too cold or not enough (too hot) in various places... And then attempts to change the temp to something more hospitable... Or else, suggests leaving the intemperate environment... (I, ENFp, am focused on other things.)

**Sensitivity to changing internal states, i.e. feeling sick--it's best to stop all activity and rest... Voices these concerns. Noticing what the body needs and then pursuing that path. In addition, caring that ppl should eat/should sleep... Knowing that the others' internal state will be positively enhanced by these activities and stressing it.

**Sets up situations in advance to create comfort, i.e. even car is set-up for maximum comfort.

[jessica129]

Currently, I'm dating someone who's Si dominant (ISFp...) Some things that I notice:

**Extreme sensitivity to changes in temperature and how temps alter internal states, i.e. A/C 'way' too cold or not enough (too hot) in various places... And then attempts to change the temp to something more hospitable... Or else, suggests leaving the intemperate environment... (I, ENFp, am focused on other things.)

**Sensitivity to changing internal states, i.e. feeling sick--it's best to stop all activity and rest... Voices these concerns. Noticing what the body needs and then pursuing that path. In addition, caring that ppl should eat/should sleep... Knowing that the others' internal state will be positively enhanced by these activities and stressing it.

**Sets up situations in advance to create comfort, i.e. even car is set-up for maximum comfort.

Sounds a lot like me.

[mikemex]

Currently, I'm dating someone who's Si dominant (ISFp...)

How does that feel?

[Rubicon]

Well, both your posts kind of reminded me of something else: context. Think about it - you're lying in bed. It's night. You should be sleepy and sleeping. But there's a far off noise, or a bug buzzing around your head, or it's too hot, etc., etc. Point being - you can't fall asleep.

But think about going on a roadtrip. You've been active all day taking in new sights and stressing your mind, but now you're driving somewhere - to a destination, home, or a hotel, but it's late. You're not driving, but even though the car is jostling you, and music's on the stereo, and maybe people are talking, you find yourself nodding off.

Why? What's the difference between these two scenarios? Maybe this isn't an airtight example, but it shows the importance of context, something I'm half-proposing is connected with Si. In one case you expect something, so your Si is held hostage by it. In the other, you have no expections and you find your Si adopting to the flow around you. What I'm tempted to say is that I'm learning how to let go of my contextual expectations so I can 'liberate' my Si.

I know what you're getting at, but it seems to me that the difference btwn those scenarios has more to do with the first one simply being an uncomfortable one as opposed to the second being a comfortable one. I find it very hard to shut out annoying sounds or ignore the fact that I'm hot and that sort of thing .... but I can go to sleep with people talking nearby or with music on, just because I find it pleasant. I don't think I'd be able to tune out mosquitoes bothering me or something annoying like that. Also, I know what you mean about changing mindsets when you're camping or something, not being bothered by mud puddles and stuff - but I don't think that's got to do with putting up with discomfort. Having mud on your clothes isn't really uncomfortable; it's just something you wouldn't tolerate in 'civilisation' because of your 'social image' like you said. It's just common sense not to care about that sort of thing when you don't have to. I think it'd be similar to feeling uncomfortable for wearing casual clothes at a formal function - your discomfort has nothing to do with your physical state; it's only to do with what people are thinking of you.

I know what you're saying about Si adapting to circumstances though - I agree, but personally, it's only bearable to the extent that it's not uncomfortable. For instance, I don't really feel locked in as far as having to have certain conditions in which to sleep, like some people who seem to need the perfect pillow, etc. ... it's more like assessing each individual situation on its own merit - just simply asking myself if I'm comfortable. So yeah, I think Si is good at adapting to different sensory experiences, but IME, not so good at putting up with discomfort.

[JuJu]

How does that feel?

Nice Really nice

[dattebayo]

i don't know but all the posts by forcemyhand loki winterpark and songosappho just made me smile. Maybe the subjects may not have been Si but the conversation sure was Reading them was really calming. And calming down a hyper ENFp is only done by an ISTp. That i do know. Wish i could listen to that kind of buzz (buzz in my ears, zen talk to you guys) all the time - heh

priceless

[Creepy-]

Maybe this is an Si thing, as well: when I'm chilly or downright cold, I want food, even if I've just eaten... I know what's causing it, and a cup of hot tea or hot chocolate usually does the trick, but I was wondering if other Si-dominants have ever had this experience or something similar.

[xyz]

Maybe this is an Si thing, as well: when I'm chilly or downright cold, I want food, even if I've just eaten... I know what's causing it, and a cup of hot tea or hot chocolate usually does the trick, but I was wondering if other Si-dominants have ever had this experience or something similar.

Happens all the time, to me.

And I'll agree with Jessica: I can never seem to be just comfortable enough. I'm always fidgeting with the AC in the car, or in the house, constantly adjusting the temperature.

For me, Si I suppose just means harmony of my own senses. Which is as vague as fuck of a statement that can be made, but, whatever.

[FDG]

Maybe this is an Si thing, as well: when I'm chilly or downright cold, I want food, even if I've just eaten... I know what's causing it, and a cup of hot tea or hot chocolate usually does the trick, but I was wondering if other Si-dominants have ever had this experience or something similar.

Doesn't everybody? (I supposedly have Si PoLR)

[dattebayo]

Doesn't everybody? (I supposedly have Si PoLR)

i was gonna say the exact same

and btw sometimes my feet a freezing and I don't even notice until i see the blue nails

but hot drinks, yeah i do them when i'm cold

[Creepy-]

Doesn't everybody? (I supposedly have Si PoLR)

Not the people I know. Hmm... maybe the way I worded it was wierd. I meant, being cold = suddenly being ravenous. You too?

[xyz]

Thanks for that confirmation, LokiV. My best friend (INTj, heh) thinks I'm crazy.

"Harmony of [your] own senses" - I know exactly what you mean because I feel the same way. Ah, identical relations... I need some ISTp's in my real life.


ps. I like the new avatar!

Thanks =]

I need to know more ISTp's myself. You start to think something's fundamentally WRONG with you sometimes, you know?

[dattebayo]

Thanks =]

I need to know more ISTp's myself. You start to think something's fundamentally WRONG with you sometimes, you know?

SLIs feel this way. Aren't you supposed to be the *level headed, unflappable* ones?

[xyz]

SLIs feel this way. Aren't you supposed to be the *level headed, unflappable* ones?

Heh, well, we're also supposed to be very open to new ideas, you know? And sometimes those new ideas, hammered home enough times, could start to make us doubt.

[tiny_dancer]

This food thing makes me laugh. When I was little and complained about being cold in the winter (my parents kept the thermostat pretty low, lol), my mom would say, "Have you eaten anything? Go eat something." She is EII, tho.

Aren't you supposed to be the *level headed, unflappable* ones?

Is that 'levelheaded' or 'bullheaded?'

[Creepy-]

This food thing makes me laugh. When I was little and complained about being cold in the winter (my parents kept the thermostat pretty low, lol), my mom would say, "Have you eaten anything? Go eat something." She is EII, tho.

Interesting. I'm not sure why I expected it to be a clear-cut Si thing....

Is that 'levelheaded' or 'bullheaded?'

Whichever is called for

[dattebayo]

Is that 'levelheaded' or 'bullheaded?'

it's all down to the alignment of the moon and the stars
Ah, the mysterious ways of the SLI mood

[jessica129]

I need to know more ISTp's myself. You start to think something's fundamentally WRONG with you sometimes, you know?

Lokiv, you always say what i'm thinking! And yeah, I could get on well with all ISTP's I think but I don't think I know any in real life.

[iAnnAu]

As my main function, I obviously find Si to be a big part of my method of operation. I have a good handle on it, but sometimes the opposite appears to be the case. For example, if I get involved with a project, I don't rest until it is done. I fidget through breaks. I rush through lunch. But all through it, even in periods of frenzied activity, I feel as though I am riding a flow of sorts. And so long as there are no external factors threatening that flow, I feel content no matter my level of activity.

I also have a good ability of blocking out externals. For example, I can fall asleep with a loud party going on in the next apartment, or even in the room itself where I am staying (had a great experience with this at field school). Working up north here, I'd found that despite having a couple hundred black flies, mosquitos, and bulldogs buzzing around my head while hiking through a swamp (no exaggeration), it's no hard task to simply block our their buzzing and biting, and focus on doing the job. I find it extremely surprising to know I can do that. It is like I am in The Matrix and can tunnel myself through the physical world.

Thought-provoking post, FMH.
I'm still figuring out what Si means to me. It makes sense for me, but when I start breaking it into the particulars I wonder exactly how it applies.
For example, I have what I call princess-and-the-pea syndrome. I *feel* everything. Sometimes I have to re-tie my shoes multiple times before I can walk, because if they're not the same it bugs me ALL DAY LONG. I simply cannot wear jewelry, or perfume, or makeup, or most synthetic fabrics. I can remember as a child putting in earrings and forgetting about them, but around high school I couldn't ignore them anymore. I could seriously see myself as a nudist because then I wouldn't have to deal with clothing.
All my senses seem hyper, in fact - I can still hear those "mosquito" noises that supposedly only kids hear, and I'm 33 (and have been to plenty of rock concerts and gun ranges). I can smell cleaning chemicals to a ridiculous degree, and I refuse to shop for firsthand clothing because the sizing makes my nose (and eyes) itch (sometimes I can even tell when other women are at their time of the month by smell). And I eat some of the blandest food of anyone I've ever met, because it ain't bland to me!
That said, I can "zone in" to a project - or when I'm reading or on the computer. I have excellent posture, but sometimes I realize I've been working nonstop for hours hunched over. Ouch! And as I've matured, I've learned the skill of overcoming external disturbances ... it's still almost impossible for me to actually go to sleep around too much light & noise, but I can read or do other things without wanting to fucking kill the source of disturbance.
Oh, and temperature - I'm used to being the coldest one in the room. Here in the south in July, I've put a sweatjacket on and taken it off at least four times today as the AC at work cuts on & off ... I can adjust to being overwarm, but even the slightest bit chilly begins to shut me down like a lizard!

[tiny_dancer]

My newest SLI coworker said the weirdest thing yesterday.. he said he could tell when there was a tornado coming b/c the air was different. He said the air felt 'tight.' I'm still debating whether or not to believe him...

[jessica129]

My newest SLI coworker said the weirdest thing yesterday.. he said he could tell when there was a tornado coming b/c the air was different. He said the air felt 'tight.' I'm still debating whether or not to believe him...

Having lived in an area with frequent tornadoes, I think I know what he meant. That and the black clouds are a good indication

[xyz]

Christ what the hell's wrong with us

[jessica129]

Don't tell anyone, but I also have ESP.

(sometimes I can even tell when other women are at their time of the month by smell).

Oh god. Thankfully I don't have this gift.

[theMime.]

Okay so I still feel like my understanding of Si is VERY hazy. I know I'm Si dominant but just because I experience Si doesn't mean I have a good mental understanding of it. Also, I kind of feel like there's some slight overlap of Fe and Si...and I feel like it can be very difficult for me to distinguish my Si experience from my Fe experience or my Fe + Si experience....so basically....ISTps, wanna help me out here?

How do you guys experience Si?


ETA: I know there are threads about this somewhere...I just don't know how far into the abyss they've sunk....

[EyeSeeCold]

In my experience, many function descriptions treat Si in a simplified manner and fail to recognize its nuances. For example, many of the typically-asserted concerns of Si - be they temperature, hunger, health, smells, etc. - seem more like anti-Se in that they deal with very stark, stand-alone, external qualities. I don't think that interpretation accurately describes what's going on.

Si is a poorly-expressed function on its own, and relies a lot on the Fe/Te creative function - to the extent that they are almost equally matched, and indeed, may very much appear so to the external observer. This is because Si provides the foundation for that creative expression, and in the case of the ISTp, when Si is optimal, you're likely to recognize only the creative Te output. This explains why the ISTp can appear so damn lazy, inefficient, and ineffective when Si is running poorly.

I've been trying to think of a decent analog describing the relationship between the two functions. The best I can come up with on the spur of the moment is that Te is like a powerful engine that can only be effective when the driver shifts at the appropriate powerbands (Si). You can sit there and rev the shit out of your car, make a lot of noise and burn a lot of gas, and have absolutely nothing to show for it. Or, you can treat Si as do you average function descriptions, and have an anti-Se passenger shouting commands at you while you drive:

"Shift now!"

"Turn left!"

"Watch out for that pedestrian!"

How effective does anyone drive under those circumstances? The Si driver might listen to a few commands, but before long is completely ignoring them. This is where the POLR comes in - this is why you cannot coax an ISTp ("come on, it'll be FUN; oOoOoh, why are you SUCH a wet blahhhn-ket?!!1") and direct an ISFp ("What you should do is: 1) pick your nose, 2) calculate this partial derivative, 3) live happily ever after"). They don't give a shit about external yapping, and contrary to the notion of them being threatened by it, they just refuse to play ball.

The lone ISTp driver blocks out the passenger's commands in favour of automatically processing external signs internally, and adapt their driving accordingly. When this process is optimized, the ISTp recognizes it as 'flow'. Think of any athelete that gets in the zone and seems untouchable - they are employing flow, and that internal sense of flow allows them to express some pretty creative and outstanding shit. The hockey player weaves his way in on goal and flips the puck top shelf over the goalie's shoulder. The handyman builds a shed with no schematic. The musician writes a haunting tune with dissonant chords that makes you want to weep. None of these things should work for any number of reasons, but they do. And they work because of flow - everything just seems to fall into place, and Si is very instrumental in that.

When it's working properly.

The problem with the above concoction is trying to figure out what's affecting Si when it's NOT running optimally. Is it, in fact, a case of the anti-Se? Or is it because Si is so directionless that it requires a large input from other functions? I think it probably IS a bit of both, but more affected by the latter. Because Si is so concerned about flow, it's especially sensitive to positive and negative feedback loops.

It's like an old car with a dead battery: to start it, you need to throw it in gear and get it moving, for that will cause the engine to start. But how can you get it moving when the problem is that it's NOT moving? Well, you phone up your buddies (other functions) and get them to push the car while you, the Si driver, sit behind the wheel and chuckle at your red-faced friends in the rear-view mirror. They're important NOW, but once you get driving, they become pretty irrelevant because, hey, dude, YOU'RE DRIVING.

...at least, that's what I think. Feel free to disagree.

.

[Creepy-male]

I don't know if it helps, but I would echo the opinion that Si is tricky to understand without also pairing it with whatever it's blocked with.

Expat did a good job of describing it: it's like you're enjoying a spa, and that spa is being run & maintained by your creative function. For Fe, it's other people. You want the people around you to be getting along and being kind and respectful, or you can't enjoy your damn spa. For Te, everything is state-of-the-art DIY mechanisms and stuff.

[theMime.]

I don't know if it helps, but I would echo the opinion that Si is tricky to understand without also pairing it with whatever it's blocked with.

Expat did a good job of describing it: it's like you're enjoying a spa, and that spa is being run & maintained by your creative function. For Fe, it's other people. You want the people around you to be getting along and being kind and respectful, or you can't enjoy your damn spa. For Te, everything is state-of-the-art DIY mechanisms and stuff.

Hmm. Makes sense. Thanks for the reply.

You're an Si dom too, right? How do you experience Si?


& @ EyeSeeCold: Thanks for your reply too. That was a good post.

[Suz]

I don't know if it helps, but I would echo the opinion that Si is tricky to understand without also pairing it with whatever it's blocked with.

Expat did a good job of describing it: it's like you're enjoying a spa, and that spa is being run & maintained by your creative function. For Fe, it's other people. You want the people around you to be getting along and being kind and respectful, or you can't enjoy your damn spa. For Te, everything is state-of-the-art DIY mechanisms and stuff.

Yeah i really liked Expat's analogy too, but i think many dont get it.

The "people" in the spa refers to the internal feelings of relaxation requiring an interactive expression (such as one would give to another person taking care of you). I think that confuses a lot of people.


Oh and i found Forcemyhand's insights to be very useful!! Thanks for sharing it ESC!

[Creepy-male]

I disagree. For me it's more like, the people around me (when there are people around me) need to be acting harmoniously for me to be able to be happy.

More than that, I generally feel as if my state of wellbeing and comfort is really intimately connected with "stuff" I experience. If I eat something too greasy, it throws me completely out of whack and makes me, as a whole, feel really gross. If people around me are fighting or not getting along, then the discord negatively affects my own emotional experience of peace.

[Mediator Kam]

yep, i need to think that others are content. if they are pissed, I will just disconnect. shit needs to be harmonious.

[Suz]

I disagree. For me it's more like, the people around me (when there are people around me) need to be acting harmoniously for me to be able to be happy.

More than that, I generally feel as if my state of wellbeing and comfort is really intimately connected with "stuff" I experience. If I eat something too greasy, it throws me completely out of whack and makes me, as a whole, feel really gross. If people around me are fighting or not getting along, then the discord negatively affects my own emotional experience of peace.

That seems more Fi doesnt it? I relate.

Thanks for the clarification though.