Fi PoLR

[Kim]

Tell me about. How does it manifest? Does it hate my guts? How do I not hit it? What to do if I do hit it? Protect ALL the PoLRs!

[Velvet]

Give them immediate reaction/response/attention and reassure them about the sincerity of your deepest feelings.

[Beautiful sky]

Lol I think you're dating an lsi

Fi as Vulnerable Function (SLE, ILE)The individual does not normally pay attention to the nuances of interpersonal relationships; he is either overly suspicious or overly assuming of his relations with others when they are not clearly defined. More importance is given to these relations as they pertain to objective mutual benefit; entertaining one another and accomplishing mutual goals are seen as the main focus, rather than seeing the relationships as rewarding in and of themselves. The individual does not expect others to be actively aware or concerned with his own personal sentiments, and so sees little reason to be concerned with those of others, unless they have direct consequences for the individual. Statements by other persons reflecting their inner feelings are not fully registered by the individual if not accompanied by external emotional expression or actions. Suggestions that the individual may have acted unethically in the eyes of another person who has not clearly expressed disapproval are met with bafflement by the individual; those that are expressed without tact are either dismissed or reacted to aggressively. Expressions of deep personal sentiments are awkward for the individual, whether coming from another or himself. He does not see it as his "right" to place the burden of his true emotions on another, both because he knows how uncomfortable those of others make him (even when they are positive and genuine), and because of his own awkwardness in expressing them.

[Beautiful sky]

Fi as Role Function (LSI, LII)The individual recognizes the existence and importance of personal relationships, so he is usually cautious at first about offending others if he does not know them well. To minimize this risk he adheres somewhat simplistically to the relevant social conventions (e.g. political correctness). However, if taken too far this produces stress, as it inhibits his natural introverted logic (Ti) inclination to voice exactly what his thoughts are on a given issue or situation, with the expectation that others will appreciate his straightforwardness, rather than accusing him of being insensitive. This caution gradually disappears as he gets to know people better. He prefers to develop relationships indirectly with others based on open conversation and common activities, and only reveals his innermost personal feelings to those he has known for a long time. He may become confused and suspicious if they are directly solicited by others.

[Amber]

wow, so much relationship insight copy-pasted from socionics sites

[Kim]

Lol I think you're dating an lsi

Noooooo.

@Person, I liked your post.

[mu4]

Tell me about. How does it manifest? Does it hate my guts? How do I not hit it? What to do if I do hit it? Protect ALL the PoLRs!

Mmm for me Fi polr manifest in that I only have 2 modes of trust, one complete, the other broken. I also have abandonment issues which make it very easy for me to lose trust. I also blurt out whatever's on my mind to people I care about, it can be shocking, hurtful but it's also true. This is probably the easiest way for me to polr hit myself, these days I almost immediately regret it. I need someone who forgives me for it.

Probably the biggest thing for me is kindness and forgiveness, someone silently holding a grudge or silently wanting to hurt me is intolerable. I think Fi polr's are very fragile in relationship areas and basically need someone with patience/kindness/tolerance. AKA XEI's.

[Amber]

observations from experiences with an ILE teenage friend of mine:

- huge trust issues due to difficulties with coping with failed relationships and working through feelings

- bouncing between opposing scenarios and moods. looks a bit bipolar if you wanna be cynical about it. she either gets overly enthusiastic about a (potential) relationship, or falls in the pits of despair due to an inability to reach a healthy balance of trust by herself

- says stuff I could hardly utter in a social context to and about ppl I consider to be close e.g. brings up creepy details shared by a friend in a convo ("oh, that's the dude she told me about. she said he's pretty good in bed"). wtf

- can get abusive with ppl due to her need to see lots of Fe . now she's in a ltr with a SEI and he seems to tolerate it coz he luvs her

- difficulty in grasping "essentials" of someone's personality/character that are independent of her and her relationship with them - e.g. has no clue about someone's taste and deeper preferences in life, stuff that colors most of their choices etc. doesn't easily understand who likes whom and why or the kind of stuff that enlivens or stifles ppl to the core.

- literally doesn't know what ppl feel unless they verbally or facially express it

- has a very basic "moral compass", so to speak ...hardly ever judges stuff as right vs wrong


in SLE it's quite similar, just that it often takes the form of frivolity.
or coupled with weak Ni it prevents them from knowing what can happen in a relationship in the future or what someone can do (see betrayal of trust - hard to distinguish friend from enemy and so forth). it's not easy to gauge the status of a relationship, but since they're Se dominants, they are more often than not the ones who "work" towards one goal or another, so that's not as big a deal as in ILE.

[RedMarquee]

The biggest hurdle with Fi types is they have these weird expectations of things I need to do to let them know I care, or I should know how I'm treating them and why they're pissed.

Without fail, these things are always things that slip my mind always. Unless I'm told, I just continue holding what I think the relationship is unless I get polrpwnd

3 relationship states random friend, devotion and burned bridge. If someone comes to me and sincerly requests something, as long as I haven't tried to cut ties I'll try to do it. Again vocal requests lol. But I'm super kind and mountain moving if you ask.

[Myst]

- says stuff I could hardly utter in a social context to and about ppl I consider to be close e.g. brings up creepy details shared by a friend in a convo ("oh, that's the dude she told me about. she said he's pretty good in bed"). wtf

Does she bring up these details to you while it's only the two of you there? Or in public e.g. in an entire group?

- literally doesn't know what ppl feel unless they verbally or facially express it

How do you know without expression? I don't read between lines like that for sure. Is that just what you do?

[Myst]

3 relationship states random friend, devotion and burned bridge.

Interesting, that's for sure even weaker Fi than mine, I'm aware of more states than that, not that I pay much attention.

[Beautiful sky]

The biggest hurdle with Fi types is they have these weird expectations of things I need to do to let them know I care, or I should know how I'm treating them and why they're pissed.

Without fail, these things are always things that slip my mind always. Unless I'm told, I just continue holding what I think the relationship is unless I get polrpwnd

3 relationship states random friend, devotion and burned bridge. If someone comes to me and sincerly requests something, as long as I haven't tried to cut ties I'll try to do it. Again vocal requests lol. But I'm super kind and mountain moving if you ask.

This

[Amber]

Does she bring up these details to you while it's only the two of you there? Or in public e.g. in an entire group?




How do you know without expression? I don't read between lines like that for sure. Is that just what you do?

hey, myst ...


yes, she brings up that kind of (intimately shared by a "friend") details in front of a whole group ...for the sake of Fe HA appreciation on a surface level ... she can understand why her acts were immoral if u explain it to her, but she'd do it again anytime. Ti creative Ep, man.

yes, that's what I usually do -- and what I consider to be the most reliable info about ppl.

[Myst]

hey, myst ...

yes, she brings up that kind of (intimately shared by a "friend") details in front of a whole group ...for the sake of Fe HA appreciation on a surface level ... she can understand why her acts were immoral if u explain it to her, but she'd do it again anytime. Ti creative Ep, man.

I see, wow so no awareness of what is considered private information?... I have awareness of that, so guess this fits Role Fi for me over PoLR, though I might do this sort of thing if I mistakenly assume something's not that private* but not in front of an entire group. Perhaps if the mood was extremely good or something but I don't see that likely.

*: real private stuff I do take seriously

yes, that's what I usually do -- and what I consider to be the most reliable info about ppl.

Our notions of what's reliable differ lol

[marooned]

i think sles can totally have awareness of what is private information. they are capable of strategy after all. some information needs to be kept on a need to know basis so as to be well wielded later. i don't think fi has a monopoly on understanding the concept of private or sensitive info. although there can always be individuals of any type who disregard these things for whatever reason.

[RedMarquee]

I'm not sure if its Ne or Te, but I can assess what will be a bad idea to bring up. Once I was doing promotional work to hand out prizes and get pictures of people so the company knew we weren't just chucking them in the trash. We approached a girl, and everything in the interaction suggested asking for a picture was bad news bears to me. My ExTx coworker then proceeded to ask. She kind of freaked out, gave all the prizes back and ran off.

That's something I can do in relation to opinions and stuff, I can assess whether information, ideas or actions will jive with people. Or something. Like I know bashing Christianity will create issues with a guy in my class because he's super devout. SLE buddy also is aware of this so it my be demonstrative actually.

I grew up getting destroyed by Fi leads so I'm a little less likely to just randomly blurt stuff out in groups, but I definitely am aware generally who it will affect and how. I'm not going to talk about how incompetent Mark is in front of Mark, or marks friends who will tell him, but if I know it won't reach him I'll blurt it out. Same with like any information, regardless of how touchy it is.

[Myst]

That's something I can do in relation to opinions and stuff, I can assess whether information, ideas or actions will jive with people. Or something. Like I know bashing Christianity will create issues with a guy in my class because he's super devout. SLE buddy also is aware of this so it my be demonstrative actually.

Actually, anyone would be aware of that, that's a very basic example. It's kinda too obvious in your face, the guy being so super devout. Well if the guy is in the background I may not think of him at that moment. But talking to him and bashing his religion.. I don't think it takes much intelligence to put two and two together

[Words]

Actually, anyone would be aware of that, that's a very basic example. It's kinda too obvious in your face, the guy being so super devout. Well if the guy is in the background I may not think of him at that moment. But talking to him and bashing his religion.. I don't think it takes much intelligence to put two and two together

Yeah this is like reciting sexist jokes at a feminist convention.

[The Reality Denialist]

From @idontgiveaf thread http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...t-stupid-test?


Apparently I assumed that people were put to climb a tree not knowing their task and then saws were given to them sawing points were pointed out and I didn't even put emphasis who is sawing whose part of the branch.
If this is not PoLR then I don't know what is. Well, my reasoning for this: only experimental setting can produce situation like this and it is not going to happen naturally. OK, there is meaning of sawing a branch in it. In this context it means to see it in relation to other people. PoLR, comically so.

[idontgiveaf]

From @idontgiveaf thread http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...t-stupid-test?


Apparently I assumed that people were put to climb a tree not knowing their task and then saws were given to them sawing points were pointed out and I didn't even put emphasis who is sawing whose part of the branch.
If this is not PoLR then I don't know what is. Well, my reasoning for this: only experimental setting can produce situation like this and it is not going to happen naturally. OK, there is meaning of sawing a branch in it. In this context it means to see it in relation to other people. PoLR, comically so.

It's Ti polr.

Because obviously it's the battle of the fittest there. People trying to stay on top.

#1 accepted his own fate. Doesn't care.
#2 trying to fall down #1 without knowing #3 is trying to make him fall down
#3 is trying to make #2 fall down.. Basically #3 wins here
#4 is the most stupid. Why??? He's obviously cutting off his own branch.

Proper common sense i guess.

[The Reality Denialist]

It's Ti polr.

Because obviously it's the battle of the fittest there. People trying to stay on top.

#1 accepted his own fate. Doesn't care.
#2 trying to fall down #1 without knowing #3 is trying to make him fall down
#3 is trying to make #2 fall down.. Basically #3 wins here
#4 is the most stupid. Why??? He's obviously cutting off his own branch.

Proper common sense i guess.

That would be weak Se but I acknowledged power positions and just ignored relations between people as I didn't put myself in position of others.

[idontgiveaf]

That would be weak Se but I acknowledged power positionsand just ignored relations between people.

That's not even socionics related. 😑

Why put cognitive functions there. I'm using my head, not anything type related bullshit. I'm using my judgement. My logic. Well that's my logic.

[idontgiveaf]

That would be weak Se but I acknowledged power positions and just ignored relations between people.

And why would you even consider relationship there? 🤔

There's no relationship connection on the image.

[The Reality Denialist]

Merely relational postions. Like how this person views the other one etc.

[idontgiveaf]

Okay. People just see things differently

[WinnieW]

That picture doesn't show person #5 who cuts the whole tree from below.

[Bertrand]

That picture doesn't show person #5 who cuts the whole tree from below.

lol it doesn't show God who made these stupid people

[WinnieW]

Of course the picture doesn't show God, because God is invisible to us humans. And only some artists created pictures from God.
God is made of what scientists call Dark Matter.
Enough topic derailment for now, I guess.

[The Reality Denialist]

Of course the picture doesn't show God, because God is invisible to us humans. And only some artists created pictures from God.
God is made of what scientists call Dark Matter.
Enough topic derailment for now, I guess.

So are you partial pantheist then?

[WinnieW]

So are you partial pantheist then?

Not only partial, I'm a pantheist.

[falsehope]

I haven't observed anything like that in myself maybe except for some little "fuck you all, and you too, fuck you".

[The Reality Denialist]

Not only partial, I'm a pantheist.

We shall wait for big outbreak of religious war between pantheism and pandeism. I bet it is going to be pathetic.

[timber]

omg I laughed so hard at this , thankyou, what a gem.

[EvilTomatoe]

Being unsure about one's characteristics and feeling of oneself, being easily influenced by someone else's comments about one's nature and characteristics - can it be prescribed to Fi polr?

[The Reality Denialist]

Being unsure about one's characteristics and feeling of oneself, being easily influenced by someone else's comments about one's nature and characteristics - can it be prescribed to Fi polr?

I don't like to hear stuff like this person has a dark heart or similar stuff. It is so final.

BUT I don't really mind to hear something to which I can build on. Well, it is not super important. I still think the core stuff that I need is derivable from other sources. Information, still and something that I can link further on. It is not painful it might be even positive until it gets too subjective and objective views start to contradict it.

[EvilTomatoe]

Well, in my case (let's assume for a second that my typing is correct), if someone tells me that I am for example spontaneous, outgoing, smart, helpful - I enjoy those remarks extremaly (relatively to positive remarks of other type). When I receive some criticism, for example someone will tell me that I am shy/nonsense/evil person, it extremaly saddens me, and I can think of it for weeks trying to reasonably convince myself that it is not true, but it does not really work until i am sure that this person changed her/his opinion of me. From the blow i get in such situation, i can safely assume that this situation is related to my Polr. I am just so easily influenced and "conquered" by the opinions of others, and I would like to avoid it. Would you relate to that @Troll Nr 007? Can it be related to Fi polr? Just tryin to figure what is what in here.

[falsehope]

Normal people wont tell you that you are shy, evil, nonsense, only if you repetitively do something very stupid. And if stupid and frustrated people tell you such things, getting frustrated over this is not very wise. I consider my resilience to other people opinions my one of the biggest strengths, and if I would be listening to what people are telling me I would not achieve anything in life. Socionics can help with this. If somebody tells you something, think of the real reasons why you've been told it, for example, it could be some ST asshole. Well, any type can be asshole, but I think some STs enjoy that most.

[ooo]

Being unsure about one's characteristics and feeling of oneself, being easily influenced by someone else's comments about one's nature and characteristics - can it be prescribed to Fi polr?

It seems hard for an ILE or an SLE to be like that, maybe it's more a Fi role thing, introverts are more easily self-preoccupied like that. Anyway to me this looks more like F, over T. I mean we all worry of what people say and think of us, but if this becomes a major preoccupation then it's probably linked to an excessive focus we give at this field, rather than not using it. It could even be that you value contacts, people, wish to be included in their worlds- Fe, but feel trapped in the same time by your own Ti, thinking, which is poorly supported by Fi-role. IDK

When I receive some criticism, for example someone will tell me that I am shy/nonsense/evil person, it extremaly saddens me, and I can think of it for weeks trying to reasonably convince myself that it is not true, but it does not really work until i am sure that this person changed her/his opinion of me.

I'm not sure this has to do with Fi in a weak position.

[Sol]

When I receive some criticism, for example someone will tell me that I am shy/nonsense/evil person, it extremaly saddens me

The weak tolerance for personal criticism is more expected from F types. T types just do not allow besides very limited number of people to touch their heart. Only F types are accented on people in general.

To be shy is not bad. Introverts are almost all such. Extraverts accept it positively, at least in the opposite sex.
Evil - it's more about personal preferences in the concrete situations.

> From the blow i get in such situation, i can safely assume that this situation is related to my Polr.

criticism on any weak function can be accepted harder. but it's not only from the strenght how I've pointed above

> I am just so easily influenced and "conquered" by the opinions of others, and I would like to avoid it

in general, it should be harder to resist to influence in your weak regions
but this mb not only from Jung's type. most people do not see this as a problem in them, they just trust to some info higher and do not feel bad from this

[domr]

Being unsure about one's characteristics and feeling of oneself, being easily influenced by someone else's comments about one's nature and characteristics - can it be prescribed to Fi polr?

Yes.

Fi-1 is being unable to model people's character. Result is trusting the wrong people and overly dependent on Fe-2 to react to people.