Fi PoLR

[Kim]

Tell me about. How does it manifest? Does it hate my guts? How do I not hit it? What to do if I do hit it? Protect ALL the PoLRs!

[Velvet]

Give them immediate reaction/response/attention and reassure them about the sincerity of your deepest feelings.

[Beautiful sky]

Lol I think you're dating an lsi

Fi as Vulnerable Function (SLE, ILE)The individual does not normally pay attention to the nuances of interpersonal relationships; he is either overly suspicious or overly assuming of his relations with others when they are not clearly defined. More importance is given to these relations as they pertain to objective mutual benefit; entertaining one another and accomplishing mutual goals are seen as the main focus, rather than seeing the relationships as rewarding in and of themselves. The individual does not expect others to be actively aware or concerned with his own personal sentiments, and so sees little reason to be concerned with those of others, unless they have direct consequences for the individual. Statements by other persons reflecting their inner feelings are not fully registered by the individual if not accompanied by external emotional expression or actions. Suggestions that the individual may have acted unethically in the eyes of another person who has not clearly expressed disapproval are met with bafflement by the individual; those that are expressed without tact are either dismissed or reacted to aggressively. Expressions of deep personal sentiments are awkward for the individual, whether coming from another or himself. He does not see it as his "right" to place the burden of his true emotions on another, both because he knows how uncomfortable those of others make him (even when they are positive and genuine), and because of his own awkwardness in expressing them.

[Kim]

Lol I think you're dating an lsi

Noooooo.

@Person, I liked your post.

[Beautiful sky]

Fi as Role Function (LSI, LII)The individual recognizes the existence and importance of personal relationships, so he is usually cautious at first about offending others if he does not know them well. To minimize this risk he adheres somewhat simplistically to the relevant social conventions (e.g. political correctness). However, if taken too far this produces stress, as it inhibits his natural introverted logic (Ti) inclination to voice exactly what his thoughts are on a given issue or situation, with the expectation that others will appreciate his straightforwardness, rather than accusing him of being insensitive. This caution gradually disappears as he gets to know people better. He prefers to develop relationships indirectly with others based on open conversation and common activities, and only reveals his innermost personal feelings to those he has known for a long time. He may become confused and suspicious if they are directly solicited by others.

[Amber]

wow, so much relationship insight copy-pasted from socionics sites

[mu4]

Tell me about. How does it manifest? Does it hate my guts? How do I not hit it? What to do if I do hit it? Protect ALL the PoLRs!

Mmm for me Fi polr manifest in that I only have 2 modes of trust, one complete, the other broken. I also have abandonment issues which make it very easy for me to lose trust. I also blurt out whatever's on my mind to people I care about, it can be shocking, hurtful but it's also true. This is probably the easiest way for me to polr hit myself, these days I almost immediately regret it. I need someone who forgives me for it.

Probably the biggest thing for me is kindness and forgiveness, someone silently holding a grudge or silently wanting to hurt me is intolerable. I think Fi polr's are very fragile in relationship areas and basically need someone with patience/kindness/tolerance. AKA XEI's.

[Amber]

observations from experiences with an ILE teenage friend of mine:

- huge trust issues due to difficulties with coping with failed relationships and working through feelings

- bouncing between opposing scenarios and moods. looks a bit bipolar if you wanna be cynical about it. she either gets overly enthusiastic about a (potential) relationship, or falls in the pits of despair due to an inability to reach a healthy balance of trust by herself

- says stuff I could hardly utter in a social context to and about ppl I consider to be close e.g. brings up creepy details shared by a friend in a convo ("oh, that's the dude she told me about. she said he's pretty good in bed"). wtf

- can get abusive with ppl due to her need to see lots of Fe . now she's in a ltr with a SEI and he seems to tolerate it coz he luvs her

- difficulty in grasping "essentials" of someone's personality/character that are independent of her and her relationship with them - e.g. has no clue about someone's taste and deeper preferences in life, stuff that colors most of their choices etc. doesn't easily understand who likes whom and why or the kind of stuff that enlivens or stifles ppl to the core.

- literally doesn't know what ppl feel unless they verbally or facially express it

- has a very basic "moral compass", so to speak ...hardly ever judges stuff as right vs wrong


in SLE it's quite similar, just that it often takes the form of frivolity.
or coupled with weak Ni it prevents them from knowing what can happen in a relationship in the future or what someone can do (see betrayal of trust - hard to distinguish friend from enemy and so forth). it's not easy to gauge the status of a relationship, but since they're Se dominants, they are more often than not the ones who "work" towards one goal or another, so that's not as big a deal as in ILE.

[Myst]

- says stuff I could hardly utter in a social context to and about ppl I consider to be close e.g. brings up creepy details shared by a friend in a convo ("oh, that's the dude she told me about. she said he's pretty good in bed"). wtf

Does she bring up these details to you while it's only the two of you there? Or in public e.g. in an entire group?

- literally doesn't know what ppl feel unless they verbally or facially express it

How do you know without expression? I don't read between lines like that for sure. Is that just what you do?

[Amber]

Does she bring up these details to you while it's only the two of you there? Or in public e.g. in an entire group?




How do you know without expression? I don't read between lines like that for sure. Is that just what you do?

hey, myst ...


yes, she brings up that kind of (intimately shared by a "friend") details in front of a whole group ...for the sake of Fe HA appreciation on a surface level ... she can understand why her acts were immoral if u explain it to her, but she'd do it again anytime. Ti creative Ep, man.

yes, that's what I usually do -- and what I consider to be the most reliable info about ppl.

[Myst]

hey, myst ...

yes, she brings up that kind of (intimately shared by a "friend") details in front of a whole group ...for the sake of Fe HA appreciation on a surface level ... she can understand why her acts were immoral if u explain it to her, but she'd do it again anytime. Ti creative Ep, man.

I see, wow so no awareness of what is considered private information?... I have awareness of that, so guess this fits Role Fi for me over PoLR, though I might do this sort of thing if I mistakenly assume something's not that private* but not in front of an entire group. Perhaps if the mood was extremely good or something but I don't see that likely.

*: real private stuff I do take seriously

yes, that's what I usually do -- and what I consider to be the most reliable info about ppl.

Our notions of what's reliable differ lol

[RedMarquee]

The biggest hurdle with Fi types is they have these weird expectations of things I need to do to let them know I care, or I should know how I'm treating them and why they're pissed.

Without fail, these things are always things that slip my mind always. Unless I'm told, I just continue holding what I think the relationship is unless I get polrpwnd

3 relationship states random friend, devotion and burned bridge. If someone comes to me and sincerly requests something, as long as I haven't tried to cut ties I'll try to do it. Again vocal requests lol. But I'm super kind and mountain moving if you ask.

[Myst]

3 relationship states random friend, devotion and burned bridge.

Interesting, that's for sure even weaker Fi than mine, I'm aware of more states than that, not that I pay much attention.

[Beautiful sky]

The biggest hurdle with Fi types is they have these weird expectations of things I need to do to let them know I care, or I should know how I'm treating them and why they're pissed.

Without fail, these things are always things that slip my mind always. Unless I'm told, I just continue holding what I think the relationship is unless I get polrpwnd

3 relationship states random friend, devotion and burned bridge. If someone comes to me and sincerly requests something, as long as I haven't tried to cut ties I'll try to do it. Again vocal requests lol. But I'm super kind and mountain moving if you ask.

This

[marooned]

i think sles can totally have awareness of what is private information. they are capable of strategy after all. some information needs to be kept on a need to know basis so as to be well wielded later. i don't think fi has a monopoly on understanding the concept of private or sensitive info. although there can always be individuals of any type who disregard these things for whatever reason.

[RedMarquee]

I'm not sure if its Ne or Te, but I can assess what will be a bad idea to bring up. Once I was doing promotional work to hand out prizes and get pictures of people so the company knew we weren't just chucking them in the trash. We approached a girl, and everything in the interaction suggested asking for a picture was bad news bears to me. My ExTx coworker then proceeded to ask. She kind of freaked out, gave all the prizes back and ran off.

That's something I can do in relation to opinions and stuff, I can assess whether information, ideas or actions will jive with people. Or something. Like I know bashing Christianity will create issues with a guy in my class because he's super devout. SLE buddy also is aware of this so it my be demonstrative actually.

I grew up getting destroyed by Fi leads so I'm a little less likely to just randomly blurt stuff out in groups, but I definitely am aware generally who it will affect and how. I'm not going to talk about how incompetent Mark is in front of Mark, or marks friends who will tell him, but if I know it won't reach him I'll blurt it out. Same with like any information, regardless of how touchy it is.

[Myst]

That's something I can do in relation to opinions and stuff, I can assess whether information, ideas or actions will jive with people. Or something. Like I know bashing Christianity will create issues with a guy in my class because he's super devout. SLE buddy also is aware of this so it my be demonstrative actually.

Actually, anyone would be aware of that, that's a very basic example. It's kinda too obvious in your face, the guy being so super devout. Well if the guy is in the background I may not think of him at that moment. But talking to him and bashing his religion.. I don't think it takes much intelligence to put two and two together

[Words]

Actually, anyone would be aware of that, that's a very basic example. It's kinda too obvious in your face, the guy being so super devout. Well if the guy is in the background I may not think of him at that moment. But talking to him and bashing his religion.. I don't think it takes much intelligence to put two and two together

Yeah this is like reciting sexist jokes at a feminist convention.

[The Reality Denialist]

From @idontgiveaf thread http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...t-stupid-test?


Apparently I assumed that people were put to climb a tree not knowing their task and then saws were given to them sawing points were pointed out and I didn't even put emphasis who is sawing whose part of the branch.
If this is not PoLR then I don't know what is. Well, my reasoning for this: only experimental setting can produce situation like this and it is not going to happen naturally. OK, there is meaning of sawing a branch in it. In this context it means to see it in relation to other people. PoLR, comically so.

[WinnieW]

That picture doesn't show person #5 who cuts the whole tree from below.

[Bertrand]

That picture doesn't show person #5 who cuts the whole tree from below.

lol it doesn't show God who made these stupid people

[idontgiveaf]

From @idontgiveaf thread http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...t-stupid-test?


Apparently I assumed that people were put to climb a tree not knowing their task and then saws were given to them sawing points were pointed out and I didn't even put emphasis who is sawing whose part of the branch.
If this is not PoLR then I don't know what is. Well, my reasoning for this: only experimental setting can produce situation like this and it is not going to happen naturally. OK, there is meaning of sawing a branch in it. In this context it means to see it in relation to other people. PoLR, comically so.

It's Ti polr.

Because obviously it's the battle of the fittest there. People trying to stay on top.

#1 accepted his own fate. Doesn't care.
#2 trying to fall down #1 without knowing #3 is trying to make him fall down
#3 is trying to make #2 fall down.. Basically #3 wins here
#4 is the most stupid. Why??? He's obviously cutting off his own branch.

Proper common sense i guess.

[The Reality Denialist]

It's Ti polr.

Because obviously it's the battle of the fittest there. People trying to stay on top.

#1 accepted his own fate. Doesn't care.
#2 trying to fall down #1 without knowing #3 is trying to make him fall down
#3 is trying to make #2 fall down.. Basically #3 wins here
#4 is the most stupid. Why??? He's obviously cutting off his own branch.

Proper common sense i guess.

That would be weak Se but I acknowledged power positions and just ignored relations between people as I didn't put myself in position of others.

[idontgiveaf]

That would be weak Se but I acknowledged power positionsand just ignored relations between people.

That's not even socionics related. 😑

Why put cognitive functions there. I'm using my head, not anything type related bullshit. I'm using my judgement. My logic. Well that's my logic.

[idontgiveaf]

That would be weak Se but I acknowledged power positions and just ignored relations between people.

And why would you even consider relationship there? 🤔

There's no relationship connection on the image.

[Fluffy Princess Unicorn]

That would be weak Se but I acknowledged power positions and just ignored relations between people as I didn't put myself in position of others.

That's not even socionics related. 

Why put cognitive functions there. I'm using my head, not anything type related bullshit. I'm using my judgement. My logic. Well that's my logic.

And why would you even consider a relationship there? 樂 There's no relationship connection on the image.

I know these are old, and I have no clue whether you guys are still on the forums or not even, but… FWIW, I don't take typology very seriously at all myself either, but as an ESI/4D Fi I instantly/automatically inferred that there were relationship dynamics happening without consciously thinking about it. It was just the first thing that popped into my head. I thought that #4 may be cutting their own selves down in order to avoid having to cut someone else down (willing to self-sacrifice for the benefit of the others). #3 may have been saving his own skin because he cared more about himself than the others. #2 may have been eager or waiting for the opportunity to “cut off” the other person from their lives, thus the redundancy of cutting between them even though he's being cut off anyway.

With all of that said--as I was thinking about this, my head was overwhelmed by all the other possibilities that I thought of but did not type. I found this exercise mildly irritating/frustrating because there were so many possible angles that could be covered, yet no concrete/solid answer at the end of it all. I would have preferred more clues, hints, details; something that could've solidified responses. Something less abstract, uncertain, and open to interpretation only. I hated that in the end, there isn't a “right” answer. Ne PoLR head explosion. So much so that I did not even cover all the people in this image...

So yeah, I do think that people can derive type related things from this.

[The Reality Denialist]

I know these are old, and I have no clue whether you guys are still on the forums or not even, but… FWIW, I don't take typology very seriously at all myself either, but as an ESI/4D Fi I instantly/automatically inferred that there were relationship dynamics happening without consciously thinking about it.

Their body postures and facial expressions are identical in social context. Only actions speak here and actions are plugged in their relations.
This explains something about Te/Fi.

[Fluffy Princess Unicorn]

Their body postures and facial expressions are identical in social context. Only actions speak here and actions are plugged in their relations.
This explains something about Te/Fi.

Actually, I did somewhat take expressions into account. Suicidal #4 wasn't depressed looking, thus the self-sacrifice rather than opportunistic about offing themselves. #2 cutting off the other was interpreted as them feeling some 'positive' way about their actions to me as well: “eager or waiting for the opportunity to 'cut off' the other person from their lives.”

In RL I soak up facial expressions, body language, etc. like a sponge and I can spot fake expressions from a mile away. I have above average expression reading abilities. I will notice something as “bad acting” and make fun of it while friends don't notice anything or see what I'm talking about, I score perfect or almost perfect scores on online tests, stuff like that. It's difficult for actors to fool me as well, it ruins most shows/movies for me. I don't fall for the superficial friendly facades, either, and I tend to notice it if there is sadness behind smiles. Bad idea to lie to me in RL, lol. But yeah, anything nonverbal definitely gets taken into account. I'm not typically very animated or expressive myself, though. If I am, usually deliberately conveying something is my intention (such as smiling to show I'm joking).

[The Reality Denialist]

Actually, I did somewhat take expressions into account. Suicidal #4 wasn't depressed looking, thus the self-sacrifice rather than opportunistic about offing themselves. #2 cutting off the other was interpreted as them feeling some 'positive' way about their actions to me as well: “eager or waiting for the opportunity to 'cut off' the other person from their lives.”

Ok, so you did not immediately scan the frame to form a truth behind the default baseline. That's how Ti works, I suppose. I just threw individual attitudes automatically into a dumpster because it is likely an improbable intent [based on whole] and then I thought what the "artist" was after with that if nothing at all - as it looks rather tragicomic as a whole.

As per rest, it does sound a lot like Fe ignoring (being soaked in it).

[Fluffy Princess Unicorn]

Everyone perceives #3 as an “arriviste.” What if he was cutting down murderers?

[Baqer]

Fi polr from the inside is a very weird thing. I know personally the polr feels much like a blind spot, with it being some specific set of things I know I'm bad at but still can't quite place. I'm used to trying to look at myself and identify behaviors, but with my polr it's much more frustrating than with other aspects. Still though, there are certain things which I can pretty confidently label as a consequence of my Fi polr.

When I am talking about my most natural, saying random thoughts and idea without any filter which I use to interact with specific people, it's unsurprisingly pretty Ne centric random things which seem completely unconnected to anything by an outside observer. Truth, it turns out, is actually a filter, (if this has to do with weak Se, or just something which no one has fully and naturally integrated into their thoughts). There is though, a general thread of logical consistency in my thoughts. From my experience of talking to IEE's, I'd attribute this logical consistency to Ti, as they have a habit of forgetting and losing track of important logic details. This would presumably include trying define things and connecting them, as opposed to just having details switch between thoughts. This(and let me emphasize I am making this shit up IEE's or literally anyone else if you think I'm wrong please yell at me) allows for the creation of a story, in which previous details are used to spur new thoughts adding to the plotline, making it sound at least roughly believable, as opposed to an IEE whose random thoughts would not be able to connect and build off each other.

What the IEE's thoughts would have though is Fi, which is what I find much harder to identify. My knowledge of Fi personally is being able to properly feel out relationships with people, which I know I'm very bad at doing. Any attempt at understanding relationships is through trying to be scientific, learning from trial and error and constructing Ti heavy theories to figure out how things work. Socionics personally is just a way to patch up my Fi with Ti, along with my incessant focus on being aware of how I and other people work. I genuinely do not know what Fi is, it seems almost like it's an sense I don't have, an awareness that I can only emulate.

Can someone please tell me if Fi actually is an awareness of something or if I'm just crazy.

[The Reality Denialist]

Can someone please tell me if Fi actually is an awareness of something or if I'm just crazy.

It is. In social situations when you have Ti'ed it and you are sure of something EII comes and says something that indicates you have not considered while in fact you have done it logically. The best part of it is that you can even emulate supervisor's actions (and the end result of actions) logically (for various reasons) which kind leaves me thinking if I'm part of this shared reality.

PoLR is the weirdest sort of mindfuckery.

[inaLim]

1st impression - probably some game theory exercise. If it is, the game is rigged from the start and needs to be re-balanced. #3 spawned in the best spot, nobody else has a chance.

2nd pass - maybe its a videogame that usually works, but this instance is bugged and everybody needs to die to re-start.

3rd pass - A game is unlikely, who would go through the trouble of drawing this? Unless its one of those SAW movies. They're chained to the tree, and the only options are to cut off a limb or cut the tree.

4th pass - Eh it's probably a metaphor for people stuff. Maybe the tree is a group/family/business and #3 wants to cut ties with #2. Same with #1 or #1 is collateral damage. And #4 wants to cut ties with all of them, or just #3 and the other two are collateral.

5th - Maybe it represents 2 partnerships poisoned by greed. #3 wants it all. #1 is passive or oblivious that her partner is about to drop her for a bigger share. #2 played dirty and got outplayed by #3 who is even dirtier. #4 wants no parts of it

6th - bored/annoyed of thinking about that. #1 is pregnant with a chest-burster alien baby, and she's gonna blow any minute. (they're in the trees to escape the aliens below) #2 has a bullshit saw that isn't getting the job done at all. Panic sets in. #3 freaks out and goes every man for himself. #4 realizes the commotion is going to give away their hiding spot, and decides to cut his branch just enough to lower himself down and make a run for another tree.

[thistle]

1st impression - probably some game theory exercise. If it is, the game is rigged from the start and needs to be re-balanced. #3 spawned in the best spot, nobody else has a chance.

2nd pass - maybe its a videogame that usually works, but this instance is bugged and everybody needs to die to re-start.

3rd pass - A game is unlikely, who would go through the trouble of drawing this? Unless its one of those SAW movies. They're chained to the tree, and the only options are to cut off a limb or cut the tree.

4th pass - Eh it's probably a metaphor for people stuff. Maybe the tree is a group/family/business and #3 wants to cut ties with #2. Same with #1 or #1 is collateral damage. And #4 wants to cut ties with all of them, or just #3 and the other two are collateral.

5th - Maybe it represents 2 partnerships poisoned by greed. #3 wants it all. #1 is passive or oblivious that her partner is about to drop her for a bigger share. #2 played dirty and got outplayed by #3 who is even dirtier. #4 wants no parts of it

6th - bored/annoyed of thinking about that. #1 is pregnant with a chest-burster alien baby, and she's gonna blow any minute. (they're in the trees to escape the aliens below) #2 has a bullshit saw that isn't getting the job done at all. Panic sets in. #3 freaks out and goes every man for himself. #4 realizes the commotion is going to give away their hiding spot, and decides to cut his branch just enough to lower himself down and make a run for another tree.

Your first impression: "The game is rigged from the start" - on the surface that does seem like a very logical way of viewing the image.
By that I mean, I personally don't see inherent traps or imagine this being a setup but instead an unfortunate accident.

I noticed that your third impression didn't provide the people involved with much agency - they were chained from the outset, so their options were limited and inevitable. The second impression is more detached and impersonal than how I would view the image. Your fifth impression is the closest to what I imagined - that their lives were intertwined well before the event shown in the image. Your sixth impression is very creative and I noticed that you viewed person 3 in a similar way to how I did (every man for himself).

When I looked at the image I had a single impression: that they ended up trapped here because they were base jumpers, or used parachutes in poor weather.

Person 1 had calmly offered themselves up as a sacrifice, with an undercurrent of pressure from persons 2 and 3.

Person 1 convinces themselves that by allowing the others greater opportunity to be airlifted or otherwise plucked from the tree to safety they are doing a good deed but their natural fear and regret prevents them from sawing themselves off the tree. Person 2 offers to assist Person 1.

When person 4 overhears person 1's decision they are mortified. Following this ordeal and being stuck with the others in the tree they came to realise that person 1 was the only true friend and one they could trust. Person 4 can't imagine the recovery ahead from this incident and living with the memory of person 1 sacrificing themselves, and them somehow being party to the decision. Overwhelmed and desperate to be free, they get to sawing themselves off the tree.

Persons 2 and 3 individually perceive themselves as "the one" to outlast and emerge from the deadly forest a hero/ine. While the group discussion had focused on attracting an aerial rescue, persons 2 and 3 plan secretly, in their own minds, to do away with the remaining members of the group and work their way down to ground level to navigate the forest floor. Neither person 2 or 3 want to share this glory, and neither of them realise the other has a similar line of thinking.

[The Reality Denialist]

Merely relational postions. Like how this person views the other one etc.

[idontgiveaf]

Okay. People just see things differently

[WinnieW]

Of course the picture doesn't show God, because God is invisible to us humans. And only some artists created pictures from God.
God is made of what scientists call Dark Matter.
Enough topic derailment for now, I guess.

[The Reality Denialist]

Of course the picture doesn't show God, because God is invisible to us humans. And only some artists created pictures from God.
God is made of what scientists call Dark Matter.
Enough topic derailment for now, I guess.

So are you partial pantheist then?

[WinnieW]

So are you partial pantheist then?

Not only partial, I'm a pantheist.

[The Reality Denialist]

Not only partial, I'm a pantheist.

We shall wait for big outbreak of religious war between pantheism and pandeism. I bet it is going to be pathetic.