Enneagram vs socionics type - specific example

[chemical]

One can draw any number of correlations. But the ultimate point is, different authors arranged the system differently, and there is some intuitive basis to all their arrangements, so I find it more fruitful to do my correlations based on "if I define X type by Y, then it corresponds to Jungian type Z."

Otherwise you just get strongly opinionated people, which I don't have much use for.

[ConcreteButterfly]

Only the first one makes sense... Tho I'd see Se as more 8ish and Ne more 7. But isn't socionics somewhat different than Jung? The more you build on it, the further it travels

Yeah I also would've pinned Ne as enneagram 7 and Se as 8, I'm not sure why Riso put it the other way around. Especially since 7's are all about having multiple options and planning and anticipating the future, something that seems Ne-ish, and 8's are about power and control, especially of their physical space, which sounds like socionics Se. And of course Jung isn't the same as Socionics, this is a very rough correlation at best. Some types like 1, 2, 5 and 6 probably match up stronger than the others. and enneagram 3 isn't even correlated at all, wild card like @Aylen said haha.

Ok revised tables, with Ne and Se switched: (sorry for spamming the thread with these lol)

BASE FUNCTION (Conscious will):

Ne base (ILE, IEE)	Enneagram 7 (Enthusiast)
Se base (SEE, SLE)	Enneagram 8 (Challenger)
Te base (LSE, LIE)	Enneagram 1 (Reformer)
Fe base (ESE, EIE)	Enneagram 2 (Helper)
Si base (SLI, SEI)	Enneagram 9 (Peacemaker)
Ni base (IEI, ILI)	Enneagram 4 (Individualist)
Fi base (EII, ESI)	Enneagram 6 (Loyalist)
Ti base (LII, LSI)	Enneagram 5 (Investigator)

IGNORING FUNCTION (Backup to base):

Ni ignoring (ILE, IEE)	Enneagram 4 (Individualist)
Si ignoring (SEE, SLE)	Enneagram 9 (Peacemaker)
Ti ignoring (LSE, LIE)	Enneagram 5 (Investigator)
Fi ignoring (ESE, EIE)	Enneagram 6 (Loyalist)
Se ignoring (SLI, SEI)	Enneagram 8 (Challenger)
Ne ignoring (IEI, ILI)	Enneagram 7 (Enthusiast)
Fe ignoring (EII, ESI)	Enneagram 2 (Helper)
Te ignoring (LII, LSI)	Enneagram 1 (Reformer)

ROLE FUNCTION (Social persona):

Se Role (ILE, IEE)	Enneagram 8 (Challenger)
Ne Role (SEE, SLE)	Enneagram 7 (Enthusiast)
Fe Role (LSE, LIE)	Enneagram 2 (Helper)
Te Role (ESE, EIE)	Enneagram 1 (Reformer)
Ni Role (SLI, SEI)	Enneagram 4 (Individualist)
Si Role (IEI, ILI)	Enneagram 9 (Peacemaker)
Ti Role (EII, ESI)	Enneagram 5 (Investigator)
Fi Role (LII, LSI)	Enneagram 6 (Loyalist)

SUGGESTIVE FUNCTION (Subconscious will, source of libido energy):

Si Suggestive (ILE, IEE)	Enneagram 9 (Peacemaker)
Ni Suggestive (SEE, SLE)	Enneagram 4 (Individualist)
Fi Suggestive (LSE, LIE)	Enneagram 6 (Loyalist)
Ti Suggestive (ESE, EIE)	Enneagram 5 (Investigator)
Ne Suggestive (SLI, SEI)	Enneagram 7 (Enthusiast)
Se Suggestive (IEI, ILI)	Enneagram 8 (Challenger)
Te Suggestive (EII, ESI)	Enneagram 1 (Reformer)
Fe Suggestive (LII, LSI)	Enneagram 2 (Helper)

[Kill4Me]

8's are about power and control, especially of their physical space, which sounds like socionics Se.

Socionics Se is about grasping qualia. That's it! I don't even consider socionics to be a true personality typology....and need not be treated like one. Cognitive functions don't have any foundation in distortions, world views, deeper drives, or the like. They're just blocks. My feet provide me with a function. I can walk on 'em. Socionics Se and the other functions are sorta like the cognitive feet. They try to get at ways people walk through reality/world...competently (and some blindspots). Courtney Love grasps something about Kathleen hanna's face and punches her in it....madonna grasps the same thing and then befriends her. One is no less Se than the other. They process the same information but then covert it differently, at a more core level. As a matter of fact....the easiest way to distinguish between socionics and enneagram is to compare courtney love (8w7 sx/so SLE-Se) with Madonna (3w4 sx/so SLE-Se). The ways they are similar pertain to socionics/stacking. Ways different pertain to enneagram....roughly. listen close and you can hear they're on a similar wavelength cognitively. But you don't have to look hard to see they have a completely different kinesthetic. here's a hint: Love is neither drunk nor high in this clip

[Myst]

The "Personality Types" enneagram book by Don Riso links the jungian function attitudes to enneagram like so:
personally I think this is a better correlation than the one on http://tap3x.net/EMBTI/page9.html that I posted before (http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...=1#post1080069)

so again, if you take these function attitudes to be the same as socionics functions, and each type to be their BASE function

(...)

@Aylen @Spider @Myst what do you guys think? is this a better correlation?

Uhh, I don't see the point in playing with correlations mindlessly. Especially when trying to make them about concepts that are no longer fully directly linked to tangible reality. Where do you get with such playing? (Rhetorical question.)

Socionics Se is about grasping qualia. That's it! I don't even consider socionics to be a true personality typology....and need not be treated like one. Cognitive functions don't have any foundation in distortions, world views, deeper drives, or the like. They're just blocks. My feet provide me with a function. I can walk on 'em. Socionics Se and the other functions are sorta like the cognitive feet. They try to get at ways people walk through reality/world...competently (and some blindspots). Courtney Love grasps something about Kathleen hanna's face and punches her in it....madonna grasps the same thing and then befriends her. One is no less Se than the other. They process the same information but then covert it differently, at a more core level. As a matter of fact....the easiest way to distinguish between socionics and enneagram is to compare courtney love (8w7 sx/so SLE-Se) with Madonna (3w4 sx/so SLE-Se). The ways they are similar pertain to socionics/stacking. Ways different pertain to enneagram....roughly.

You'd wish two quite restricted theories covered everything about the causes for the differences between those two women. Nope. Not even "roughly".

Also funny how here you say socionics Se is just about qualia when you also keep harping on about how it's also linked to willpower and whatever other stereotypical traits that get linked to Se by socionics fans. Enjoy your contradictions lol

[Dutchman]

I've seen people assume that certain combinations can't exist. Why?

E.g. it's often said that LSI E8 is an impossible combination but how on earth would from TiSe ego block follow that E8 is not a possible enneagram type for it?

Maybe look at it this way:
All combinations of socionics type and enneagram type are possible.
Per type there is a distribution, for example like a bell curve.
One combination more likely than other combinations.
Then LSI E8 is possible, but rare.

Instead of looking at correlation between enneagram and socionics, why not use both systems to explain intratype differences. Differences within one enneagram type explained by socionics,
or if your prefer, differences within one socionics type explained by enneagram.

For other variables there could be correlations too, for example gender could be correlated to type: feeling types I guess more female and thinking types more male. Again with a distribution, no combination impossible. And each variable, like gender, is useful to explain intratype differences.

[Myst]

Maybe look at it this way:
All combinations of socionics type and enneagram type are possible.
Per type there is a distribution, for example like a bell curve.
One combination more likely than other combinations.
Then LSI E8 is possible, but rare.

That's kinda my inclination to look at it that way

& Hi Identical

Instead of looking at correlation between enneagram and socionics, why not use both systems to explain intratype differences. Differences within one enneagram type explained by socionics,
or if your prefer, differences within one socionics type explained by enneagram.

For other variables there could be correlations too, for example gender could be correlated to type: feeling types I guess more female and thinking types more male. Again with a distribution, no combination impossible. And each variable, like gender, is useful to explain intratype differences.

Yeah, pretty sensible approach.

Some people apparently only exclude LSI E8 and a few other combos because they haven't seen one yet, heh..

[lemontrees]

when i go to sleep, weave the cocoon around myself, and then wake up, i will transmogrify into a beautiful E8 SEI